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The main problem is with the voting system. When it was just Tories v Liberals then Tories v Labour the first past the post system worked reasonably well.
But now with multiple parties it is impossible to get a parliament that represents the will of the people. Our present government which has 66% of the seats from 33% of the votes cast illustrates that.
Vote for whoever promises to introduce proportional representation and change the system for the better. However that is currently likely to include everybody except the Labour and the Tories as neither of those turkeys want to vote for Christmas.
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If there was an election today, who would get your vote? on 18:30 - Sep 16 with 1385 views
If there was an election today, who would get your vote? on 18:25 - Sep 16 by flykickingbybgunn
The main problem is with the voting system. When it was just Tories v Liberals then Tories v Labour the first past the post system worked reasonably well.
But now with multiple parties it is impossible to get a parliament that represents the will of the people. Our present government which has 66% of the seats from 33% of the votes cast illustrates that.
Vote for whoever promises to introduce proportional representation and change the system for the better. However that is currently likely to include everybody except the Labour and the Tories as neither of those turkeys want to vote for Christmas.
I can’t see anyone changing it because the only people who can have benefitted from it. It’s a mess. Somebody has to have some balls to change it even if it dilutes their power. It’s no good them complaining about engagement rates when the system disenfranchises so many.
I'm a bit shafted here in Torridge/West Devon as our sitting MP is Sir Geoffrey Cox (I tried to get the tag #COXOUT going locally last time without success) and Reform is also very strong. Historically it was Lib Dem and Labour always put up strong candidates as part of their training for future elections, such as Darren Jones, secure in the knowledge they won't actually do anything silly like winning. One Labour candidate was a friend and we genuinely believed in her and campaigned, leafleted etc even though it was a waste of time. I've been a lifelong Labourite and proudly woke lefty who held my nose and voted for Starmer but this time, if I'm going to cast a losing vote, it'll be Green.
If there was an election today, who would get your vote? on 14:32 - Sep 16 by Perublue
Such a waste of an early evening stroll to the polling station..might as well stay at home or better still go but vote tactically. Spoiled or spoilt votes are more acceptable here as it’s mandatory to vote but otherwise people wouldn’t waste their time.
I often spoil my ballot paper by ticking all of them. It shows I can be bothered to vote just not for the tripe present on the paper. Spoilt papers are counted and are declared in the result. If everyone who couldn't be bothered to vote spoilt their paper, I suspect in some constituencies the winner could have less votes making it a pretty hollow victory. Spoilt paper over no voting 100% IMO.
[Post edited 16 Sep 19:04]
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If there was an election today, who would get your vote? on 19:13 - Sep 16 with 1281 views
Can't stand the sitting Labour MP in my constituency (or the government more generally), so will vote for the party that finished second place last time (the Greens).
If I lived in Ipswich I might hold my nose if it looked like being Labour vs. Reform and vote for the incumbent.
Europe is under attack, so I could not vote for anyone who admires Putin or campaigned for Trump (who applauded Putin on a red carpet). We have to stand up to aggressors and defend ourselves. I think we need to maintain our nuclear deterrent too.
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If there was an election today, who would get your vote? on 21:06 - Sep 16 with 1146 views
If there was an election today, who would get your vote? on 19:49 - Sep 16 by Mark
Europe is under attack, so I could not vote for anyone who admires Putin or campaigned for Trump (who applauded Putin on a red carpet). We have to stand up to aggressors and defend ourselves. I think we need to maintain our nuclear deterrent too.
So, Nige's Turquoise n' Gammon and Jezza's 'Fruit and Nut' parties are not for you?
I'm one of the people who was blamed for getting Paul Cook sacked. PM for the full post.
This thread feels like an appropriate place to post this, as it gives a good example of why so few people want to vote conservative. What an absolute shambles of a politician, she stands for absolutely nothing at all.
Edit: If you click on the post there are videos of her. So utterly dreadful.
Kemi Badenoch refusing to acknowledge that Tommy Robinson is "far-right", now on LBC, and refusing to condemn Elon Musk's words. In fact she says what Musk said *isn't* incitement. So what would be incitement then? How violent would his words have to be before he was deemed a threat to this country?
If there was an election today, who would get your vote? on 22:02 - Sep 16 by Dubtractor
This thread feels like an appropriate place to post this, as it gives a good example of why so few people want to vote conservative. What an absolute shambles of a politician, she stands for absolutely nothing at all.
Edit: If you click on the post there are videos of her. So utterly dreadful.
Kemi Badenoch refusing to acknowledge that Tommy Robinson is "far-right", now on LBC, and refusing to condemn Elon Musk's words. In fact she says what Musk said *isn't* incitement. So what would be incitement then? How violent would his words have to be before he was deemed a threat to this country?
If there was an election today, who would get your vote? on 22:33 - Sep 16 by reusersfreekicks
Vile woman
her and jenrick are really pushing for extinction of the party.
what is the point of putting on reform's clothes when there is so much evidence of their utter incompetence in 14 years of failure at dealing with any of reform's whinges?
Didn’t we have a referendum on PR ? I’ve a feeling it was this century and I’m sure I voted in it but that’s not a certainty. I know the Lib Dems in their various guises over the decades have always been fans, I also recall Italy having to have different cobbled together parties forming unworkable coalitions and changing government every 5 minutes due to using it therefore stifling progress on anything.
If there was an election today, who would get your vote? on 01:20 - Sep 17 by Perublue
Didn’t we have a referendum on PR ? I’ve a feeling it was this century and I’m sure I voted in it but that’s not a certainty. I know the Lib Dems in their various guises over the decades have always been fans, I also recall Italy having to have different cobbled together parties forming unworkable coalitions and changing government every 5 minutes due to using it therefore stifling progress on anything.
[Post edited 17 Sep 1:25]
The referendum was on the AV system, which is the one used for mayoral elections (thankfully reinstated). It not a proportional system, but is undoubtedly a better system than FPTP.
Italy is always cited as an example of why PR doesn't work, but conveniently ignores all the other countries that have it and don't seem to suffer like Germany and all the Scandinavian countries.
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If there was an election today, who would get your vote? on 01:51 - Sep 17 with 756 views
If there was an election today, who would get your vote? on 01:40 - Sep 17 by Clapham_Junction
The referendum was on the AV system, which is the one used for mayoral elections (thankfully reinstated). It not a proportional system, but is undoubtedly a better system than FPTP.
Italy is always cited as an example of why PR doesn't work, but conveniently ignores all the other countries that have it and don't seem to suffer like Germany and all the Scandinavian countries.
Ironically Italy does seem to have found more stability recently in that area where Germany has been struggling during this same period…but I do get your point. It’s difficult isn’t it to find the best system. I’ve encountered so many in so many different places and there are always dissenting opinions and views usually of course from the sides that aren’t in power or at least have a little of it. Would have been interesting if Clegg had held the tories to ransom over their coalition with that carrot. FPTP in the UK and the boundaries commission must be such a difficult tightrope to attempt.
Full disclosure … I didn’t know who the Advance party was … just checked it out now and was surprised to see them as an option in their own right (no pun intended) mainly down to the perceived support and relevance in comparison say for example with the SNP or any Northern Irish party. As it’s a secret ballot on here it’s heartwarming to see they have no votes.
If there was an election today, who would get your vote? on 01:51 - Sep 17 by Perublue
Ironically Italy does seem to have found more stability recently in that area where Germany has been struggling during this same period…but I do get your point. It’s difficult isn’t it to find the best system. I’ve encountered so many in so many different places and there are always dissenting opinions and views usually of course from the sides that aren’t in power or at least have a little of it. Would have been interesting if Clegg had held the tories to ransom over their coalition with that carrot. FPTP in the UK and the boundaries commission must be such a difficult tightrope to attempt.
I would say FPTP is the worst of all the electoral systems. It produces highly unrepresentative results and is the easiest to manipulate via gerrymandering. AV would have been an improvement, but it would have been better to go for full STV (like Ireland has), which isn't a bad system as it tends to weed out extremists (but it also doesn't produce proportional results).
There are various forms of PR - my favoured approach would be open list PR with multiple constituencies (based on recognisable geographic units like counties) and perhaps 50 levelling seats to make the overall result properly proportional. Open list PR would mean voters get to rank the candidates of the party they vote for, which gives them less ability to stitch up selections. This would be preferable to the full national / closed list PR system that countries like Israel have, where there is no regional representation and a single list of candidates (sometimes just selected by the party leader).
One issue with systems that don't produce majority governments all the time is the unhappiness about post-election coalitions (like in the UK in 2010 or the Danish Social Democrats abandoning their usual left-wing allies and forming a government with right-wing parties after their last election). A system in which parties have to declare which other parties they would and would not work with after an election could help with retaining trust (or perhaps someone could invent a new system with a kind of second ballot where you vote for a preferred coalition).
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If there was an election today, who would get your vote? on 02:49 - Sep 17 with 657 views
If there was an election today, who would get your vote? on 02:15 - Sep 17 by Clapham_Junction
I would say FPTP is the worst of all the electoral systems. It produces highly unrepresentative results and is the easiest to manipulate via gerrymandering. AV would have been an improvement, but it would have been better to go for full STV (like Ireland has), which isn't a bad system as it tends to weed out extremists (but it also doesn't produce proportional results).
There are various forms of PR - my favoured approach would be open list PR with multiple constituencies (based on recognisable geographic units like counties) and perhaps 50 levelling seats to make the overall result properly proportional. Open list PR would mean voters get to rank the candidates of the party they vote for, which gives them less ability to stitch up selections. This would be preferable to the full national / closed list PR system that countries like Israel have, where there is no regional representation and a single list of candidates (sometimes just selected by the party leader).
One issue with systems that don't produce majority governments all the time is the unhappiness about post-election coalitions (like in the UK in 2010 or the Danish Social Democrats abandoning their usual left-wing allies and forming a government with right-wing parties after their last election). A system in which parties have to declare which other parties they would and would not work with after an election could help with retaining trust (or perhaps someone could invent a new system with a kind of second ballot where you vote for a preferred coalition).
I grew up with the British parliamentary system and its an arse trying to explain it to countries citizens usually republics with a presidential system of 2 rounds(playoffs/runoff)if nobody wins a majority in the first round. But then trying to get them to explain their presidential system and prime ministerial congress or senates is equally traumatic
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