| I feel sorry for Hirst 08:47 - Oct 19 with 3679 views | Chris_ITFC |
Personally, I think the criticism has been way over the top. I don’t understand why some seem to relish going for individuals - there’s always someone fashionable to dig out, even after such a poor *team* performance. Most of the squad have suffered it at some point over the last 18 months, but that’s another story.
Anyway - Hirst. Why hasn’t it clicked for him, I wonder?
From clever creator Chaplin to goal-getting second strikers Szomdics and Akpom.
From Broadhead playing so narrow, literally as a second #10, to Philogene hugging the touchline and usually cutting in to shoot.
From Burns beating his man and crossing again and again, to Egeli occasionally trying to swing crosses in on his weak right foot and McAteer yet to get up to speed.
And even the midfield - I can remember O’Shea and Kipre playing passes into Hirst’s feet on Friday (he shouldn’t have to come that deep, and that ain’t easy), but can’t picture the CMs doing it, and certainly none of the balls over the top he thrives on.
Hirst can gel a team together, but we’ve swapped out his smooth, silky wet look stuff for some of that gloopy, sticky modern putty. It’s going to take him longer to mould this. That’s knocked his confidence so hard, he’s just gone skinhead and chucked the gel in the bin - but that’s another story too.
Anyway - Hirst. Why hasn’t it clicked for him, I wonder!
He hasn’t been his usual self - but neither have we. |  |
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| I feel sorry for Hirst on 08:49 - Oct 19 with 2974 views | Chris_ITFC |
Too long, didn’t read.
We’ve taken all George’s friends away, the ones who liked passing and linking with him (his strength) and given him loads of shooty shooty types, who don’t get close to him, instead. | |
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| I feel sorry for Hirst on 09:00 - Oct 19 with 2882 views | Kieran_Knows |
We all know with Hirst - and our striker position in general - that it’s not all about goals. We know what Hirst can bring when he’s on song, but he’s just not doing the basics good enough at the minute, never mind patterns of plays etc.
He’s not holding the ball up well enough and even when it does go in to him it just bounces off him.
Think it’s a perfect opportunity with back to back home games to give Ivan a little run and take Hirst out of it. |  |
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| I feel sorry for Hirst on 09:02 - Oct 19 with 2853 views | Mullet |
| I feel sorry for Hirst on 09:00 - Oct 19 by Kieran_Knows |
We all know with Hirst - and our striker position in general - that it’s not all about goals. We know what Hirst can bring when he’s on song, but he’s just not doing the basics good enough at the minute, never mind patterns of plays etc.
He’s not holding the ball up well enough and even when it does go in to him it just bounces off him.
Think it’s a perfect opportunity with back to back home games to give Ivan a little run and take Hirst out of it. |
Yep, I don't think the criticism has been that bad either. |  |
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| I feel sorry for Hirst on 09:06 - Oct 19 with 2817 views | Chris_ITFC |
| I feel sorry for Hirst on 09:00 - Oct 19 by Kieran_Knows |
We all know with Hirst - and our striker position in general - that it’s not all about goals. We know what Hirst can bring when he’s on song, but he’s just not doing the basics good enough at the minute, never mind patterns of plays etc.
He’s not holding the ball up well enough and even when it does go in to him it just bounces off him.
Think it’s a perfect opportunity with back to back home games to give Ivan a little run and take Hirst out of it. |
I agree, he hasn’t been himself. But I don’t think the quality into him has been great.
Azon has looked lively off the bench, as strikers often can (AAH), but he was basically anonymous when he got his start at Brizzle, and struggled to hold the ball up / link up too. | |
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| I feel sorry for Hirst on 09:22 - Oct 19 with 2731 views | JammyDodgerrr |
I think you are being very generous. Agree of course, that we are in transition. But Hirst has never really been about goals. Even last year he was a better option for us than Delap at times because of how he held the ball and brought others into play. His touch has been awful this season, his press has been off, and he's just been below the level required. I think we all knew he would miss the penalty on Friday unfortunately.
I actually back him to find his form again, we've seen how pivotal he is to the system and I look forward to seeing him get back to it. |  |
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| I feel sorry for Hirst on 09:40 - Oct 19 with 2631 views | FrimleyBlue |
Difficult one, in part you are correct
However, when you look across the games, he's had chances in every game and whilst he's scored a few, hes missed a load of chances too which has been the difference for us from either being ahead in games or extending our leads.
He had 2 chances against preston from excellent crosses and didn't connect for example
had the chance v southampton which he fluffed after good work
He had a sitter at the near post from sammy s and didnt manage to get it on target
he had another one i think from sammy s where he fell over when the ball got to him
he had the chance where he passed it for some reason rather than shooting
on friday whilst the player saved it with his hand, it was indeed another chance, maybe along the floor and it's a goal... that maybe could be a bit harsh...
He then had the pen that he missed
There's also nothing wrong with creating his own chances, or creating chances for others
Do you have hirst stats for 23/24 to see his chances created etc, it would be interesting to see.. esp with our issues with samm s and akpom as 10s. |  |
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| I feel sorry for Hirst on 09:46 - Oct 19 with 2605 views | OldFart71 |
Don't see the criticism as "Way over the top". Hirst had three decent chances against the Budgies, didn't put one away. A penalty against Boro and the goalkeeper was given a chance to save it and did.
I think most would agree that after a decent series of games pre-season we hoped he would kick on, but he hasn't.
If he wasn't getting chances you could blame other areas of the field.
I do however believe we have an overall problem in the forward line as if Philogene is stopped nobody else is stepping up regarding those that are currently regarded as starters. |  | | |
| I feel sorry for Hirst on 10:00 - Oct 19 with 2529 views | Garv |
People are talking about Hirst in a negative way but they're also talking about several other players. I don't think one could say he's being singled out or that it's an individual thing.
Walle Egeli is getting stick, Szmodics, Akpom, MacAteer. I've continued to admit I find Philogene a hard watch most of the time (which seems like a mental thing to say but it's true). There's now debate over the RB and LCM slots as well.
That's the worrying thing for me, there's not many areas of the team people are happy with. I said during the transfer window when it was clear how much the squad was going to have changed, that getting us promoted this season would be McKenna's biggest achievement. So I'm not one of those that says if we don't get top two we've 'failed'. All I'd say at the moment is that I can't see it happening based on what we're watching.
On Hirst, I don't think he's a big problem at all. I wouldn't be rushing to Azon yet.
Not many strikers at this level are technically excellent. He'll put himself about, run all day, he's a good lad and has 1 in 3 this season despite not playing that well. |  |
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| I feel sorry for Hirst on 10:07 - Oct 19 with 2495 views | FrimleyBlue |
| I feel sorry for Hirst on 10:00 - Oct 19 by Garv |
People are talking about Hirst in a negative way but they're also talking about several other players. I don't think one could say he's being singled out or that it's an individual thing.
Walle Egeli is getting stick, Szmodics, Akpom, MacAteer. I've continued to admit I find Philogene a hard watch most of the time (which seems like a mental thing to say but it's true). There's now debate over the RB and LCM slots as well.
That's the worrying thing for me, there's not many areas of the team people are happy with. I said during the transfer window when it was clear how much the squad was going to have changed, that getting us promoted this season would be McKenna's biggest achievement. So I'm not one of those that says if we don't get top two we've 'failed'. All I'd say at the moment is that I can't see it happening based on what we're watching.
On Hirst, I don't think he's a big problem at all. I wouldn't be rushing to Azon yet.
Not many strikers at this level are technically excellent. He'll put himself about, run all day, he's a good lad and has 1 in 3 this season despite not playing that well. |
I dont see personally how getting promoted this season would be his greatest achievement with the funds available and the poor quality of the league itself
one of only a few parachute clubs around this time, the league is there to be taken.
I don't believe yet though that KM has fallen upon the best side, he may have in his mind what he believes is the best side and we have seen that with the side unchanged on friday from nodge, but I don't think it is, there's somethings missing
I Get what you mean by Philogene, but i guess clarke is the same when he plays, and it's the same feeling with samm s and cajuste.
There's a lot of individual talents in the side, most would walk into other starting 11's, but I do think there are some controversial tweaks required for this side to flourish this season | |
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| I feel sorry for Hirst on 10:48 - Oct 19 with 2360 views | Pinewoodblue |
Have to ask but are the comparisons you have made between players been carried out in an unbiased way or have you used them as they support your views?
Suspect you have looked at Chappers, and others from 2023/24, over 46 games while the current players stats are over just a handful of games.
This season there are new partnerships all round while in 2023/24 it was about continuing partnerships formed in the previous season.
Hirst is off his peak, he didn’t get many minutes over the two Scotland games.
I would you prefer Nunes to play Chsplin’s role or even consider bringing him back in January. |  |
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| I feel sorry for Hirst on 11:19 - Oct 19 with 2259 views | longtimefan |
I’d agree that much of criticism is over the top and you certainly can’t fault his work rate but I’m not sure you can blame changed teammates for him missing two penalties already this season! | | | |
| I feel sorry for Hirst on 11:44 - Oct 19 with 2154 views | Chris_ITFC |
| I feel sorry for Hirst on 09:40 - Oct 19 by FrimleyBlue |
Difficult one, in part you are correct
However, when you look across the games, he's had chances in every game and whilst he's scored a few, hes missed a load of chances too which has been the difference for us from either being ahead in games or extending our leads.
He had 2 chances against preston from excellent crosses and didn't connect for example
had the chance v southampton which he fluffed after good work
He had a sitter at the near post from sammy s and didnt manage to get it on target
he had another one i think from sammy s where he fell over when the ball got to him
he had the chance where he passed it for some reason rather than shooting
on friday whilst the player saved it with his hand, it was indeed another chance, maybe along the floor and it's a goal... that maybe could be a bit harsh...
He then had the pen that he missed
There's also nothing wrong with creating his own chances, or creating chances for others
Do you have hirst stats for 23/24 to see his chances created etc, it would be interesting to see.. esp with our issues with samm s and akpom as 10s. |
Very upsetting.
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| I feel sorry for Hirst on 11:52 - Oct 19 with 2122 views | LankHenners |
| I feel sorry for Hirst on 09:00 - Oct 19 by Kieran_Knows |
We all know with Hirst - and our striker position in general - that it’s not all about goals. We know what Hirst can bring when he’s on song, but he’s just not doing the basics good enough at the minute, never mind patterns of plays etc.
He’s not holding the ball up well enough and even when it does go in to him it just bounces off him.
Think it’s a perfect opportunity with back to back home games to give Ivan a little run and take Hirst out of it. |
Yep, there's been some patronising nonsense about 'not understanding his/our game' if you say he's not playing well but as you say, the criticism (which hasn't been that bad) is from a place of knowing he can be a lot better than he's showing.
Agree with Stu Watson's assessment that giving Azon a run of games from the start not only brings him up to speed but also takes the pressure off Hirst a bit and allows him a reset. |  |
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| I feel sorry for Hirst on 12:01 - Oct 19 with 2073 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| I feel sorry for Hirst on 11:44 - Oct 19 by Chris_ITFC |
It’s the only way I can really compare them playing for McKenna in the Championship - but like you say, I’ve done per 90.
Really, you’ve missed my point, and also proved my point with your additions.
I’m not saying Chaplin is a better player than Szmodics. I’m saying he is more of a creator and Szmodics is more of a finisher, which my (and your) stats show. It’s obvious which style dovetails better with Hirst. |
And you've missed my point  , which was that your selected stats were incomplete to show the full picture.
So I added some stats that completed the picture. | | | |
| I feel sorry for Hirst on 12:03 - Oct 19 with 2055 views | HighgateBlue |
If these stats are to be taken at first value, and to build a case, it seems to me that that case is:
- Kieran has spent a lot of money on players who are just worse than what we had; or
- Kieran has spent a lot of money on players and hasn't been able to coach those players individually, or refine the system, such that they are as effective as the previous cheaper players.
And yet he really does avoid any heat.
That being the case, I'm going to go with "Hirst is not as good as the strikers at the clubs who will be at the top end of the table this season". That, I think, is a reasonably safe conclusion on what we've seen so far. Penalties included, or otherwise.
btw, zero through balls from Smodders - zero?! |  | | |
| I feel sorry for Hirst on 12:39 - Oct 19 with 1956 views | Chris_ITFC |
| I feel sorry for Hirst on 12:01 - Oct 19 by SuffolkPunchFC |
And you've missed my point , which was that your selected stats were incomplete to show the full picture.
So I added some stats that completed the picture. |
Full picture stats are VERY hard to screenshot. 
You have no idea how many attempts it took to make this one!
Stats The Way A-Ha A-Ha… Morsy v Matusiwa by Chris_ITFC 13 Oct 8:44Morsy v Matusiwa, posted with zero agenda, completely just curiosity in light of the other Morsy thread.
I’d summarise as:
Morsy relied upon more for possession, with more attacking threat, but less discipline.
Matusiwa just as trustworthy on the ball, but better in the air and proactive in defending (clearances/interceptions).
Considering we’re comparing peak Morsy, rather than 2025 Morsy, our boy Azor stacks up bloody well in just his first 8 games in England.
https://i.ibb.co/LdD3TCyT/IMG-2638.jpg
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| I feel sorry for Hirst on 12:43 - Oct 19 with 1933 views | Chris_ITFC |
| I feel sorry for Hirst on 12:03 - Oct 19 by HighgateBlue |
If these stats are to be taken at first value, and to build a case, it seems to me that that case is:
- Kieran has spent a lot of money on players who are just worse than what we had; or
- Kieran has spent a lot of money on players and hasn't been able to coach those players individually, or refine the system, such that they are as effective as the previous cheaper players.
And yet he really does avoid any heat.
That being the case, I'm going to go with "Hirst is not as good as the strikers at the clubs who will be at the top end of the table this season". That, I think, is a reasonably safe conclusion on what we've seen so far. Penalties included, or otherwise.
btw, zero through balls from Smodders - zero?! |
Yeah, it’s nuanced. All things are, despite thread titles suggesting otherwise.
He could be doing better.
He’s lacking confidence.
He’s maybe trying a bit hard to be the main man (see #9 shirt; see Brum celebration)
EVERYTHING around him has changed (see Davis having to adapt too)
But also:
The level of quality / consistency people expect might sometimes be beyond the reality.
Also, also:
I’d say the definition of “through ball” is open to interpretation, but also, if Szmodics is in “through ball” territory, he’s probably more likely to shoot… than say, Chaplin, as a random example. (See OP ) | |
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| I feel sorry for Hirst on 12:47 - Oct 19 with 1897 views | IH_KGF |
Yes and no for me.
We know he has the ability/quality to hold the ball up, bring others into play, but so far this season its not a stretch to say he's been a huge disappointment.
Playing in the role he does here, he actually has the luxury of not even being expected to be the main man in terms of goals (which for a striker takes off so much pressure) but when called upon (from 12 yards out) he HAS to prove his worth to the team.
but what I feel he's failed in is to carry out the requirements that do lay at his feet. He trains 2/3/4 times a week, how has his touch got worse?
He has fluffed so many massive chances to score, and to play others in.
And i hate to say it, he made a rod for his back when he made those absolutely moronic comments after his penalty vs Birmingham, I cringed hearing that.
We know he has the quality, but he's at serious risk of losing his place in the team. |  | | |
| I feel sorry for Hirst on 12:49 - Oct 19 with 1877 views | billlm |
For me this boils down to he's a good forward not a natural goal scorer,
So town have spent 28 m + on the right side to create chances
40m+ on the left side to create chances,
9 m on Sammy and how ever much on Akpon in a loan,,,,
But have never never never addressed our real problem and out and out striker,
That to me is an extremely poor strategy and it's not this year,
Delap was a punt which semi played ok or we would have been toothless last year though we're most of the time,
Until we can afford or get a proper target man we will be the nearly team, |  | | |
| I feel sorry for Hirst on 13:01 - Oct 19 with 1813 views | ernie |
| I feel sorry for Hirst on 08:49 - Oct 19 by Chris_ITFC |
Too long, didn’t read.
We’ve taken all George’s friends away, the ones who liked passing and linking with him (his strength) and given him loads of shooty shooty types, who don’t get close to him, instead. |
Utter rubbish. He’s had plenty of chances. He’s just snatched at them all or hit weak shots that look like pass backs. | | | |
| I feel sorry for Hirst on 13:11 - Oct 19 with 1763 views | Chris_ITFC |
| I feel sorry for Hirst on 12:49 - Oct 19 by billlm |
For me this boils down to he's a good forward not a natural goal scorer,
So town have spent 28 m + on the right side to create chances
40m+ on the left side to create chances,
9 m on Sammy and how ever much on Akpon in a loan,,,,
But have never never never addressed our real problem and out and out striker,
That to me is an extremely poor strategy and it's not this year,
Delap was a punt which semi played ok or we would have been toothless last year though we're most of the time,
Until we can afford or get a proper target man we will be the nearly team, |
If anyone was to be given a go up top, I’d actually prefer to see Akpom.
He’s the most proven goal scorer we have, and definitely more of a predator than Hirst, but with the physicality over Azon too. | |
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| I feel sorry for Hirst on 13:29 - Oct 19 with 1679 views | NthQldITFC |
| I feel sorry for Hirst on 09:06 - Oct 19 by Chris_ITFC |
I agree, he hasn’t been himself. But I don’t think the quality into him has been great.
Azon has looked lively off the bench, as strikers often can (AAH), but he was basically anonymous when he got his start at Brizzle, and struggled to hold the ball up / link up too. |
I think both of those things are true. There was, I seem to remember, quite a lot of talk about him looking fantastic in pre-season, and with the context of us coming down from the Prem and being everyone's favourites, I think the pressure on him has been immense from the very first kick of the season onwards.
I don't think it's been dealt with particularly well, as evidenced by him not doing things well that he used to do well, mainly the control and ball protection and the layoffs thereafter. He's been trying to be too sharp and too quick in his actions from the start and it hasn't worked and now he's feeling even more pressure to be super sharp and justify our favouritism and his pre-season hype. It's a vicious circle.
If he was still playing with Chappers and Broady and Wes and Morsy it would have just fixed itself, but in a team which is yet to fully come together, it's too much pressure for him. The psychology department (i.e himself and KMc and whoever else) needs to somehow ease the pressure a little bit, and I would suggest (as above) that Ivan starts the next two just to give him a bit of breathing space. |  |
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| I feel sorry for Hirst on 13:54 - Oct 19 with 1588 views | HighgateBlue |
| I feel sorry for Hirst on 12:43 - Oct 19 by Chris_ITFC |
Yeah, it’s nuanced. All things are, despite thread titles suggesting otherwise.
He could be doing better.
He’s lacking confidence.
He’s maybe trying a bit hard to be the main man (see #9 shirt; see Brum celebration)
EVERYTHING around him has changed (see Davis having to adapt too)
But also:
The level of quality / consistency people expect might sometimes be beyond the reality.
Also, also:
I’d say the definition of “through ball” is open to interpretation, but also, if Szmodics is in “through ball” territory, he’s probably more likely to shoot… than say, Chaplin, as a random example. (See OP ) |
I agree with all of that, and my petulance could doubtless sometimes do with a little more nuance.
But re Smodders, if he's taking loads of shots, then that's a different problem, because he hasn't troubled the net yet in the league. Or at least not the inside of it.
6 starts and 3 sub appearances, no goals. This guy was the run away top scorer in the Championship last time he was in it, 2 years ago. What have we done to him? He was top goal scorer BY six goals. This season he'll be lucky to GET six goals.
The year before SS's goalscoring exploits, a certain Mr C Akpom scored 28 in the Championship, from 38 games. Another yet to find the net.
Have we bought the right kind of player for the number 10 spot? Because we're getting little joy from a position that was a real plus for us last time round in the Championship, and we're deploying players who had astonishing success last time round in the Championship.
I would urge all supporters to think like a horse racing analyst - study the actual value of the form. Yes, we have a good goal difference, and yes we're riding high in what are called "form tables", but the value of the form is minimal if we've only beaten bottom half clubs, and at home. I really think the glorious shine of derby day, and the rampant 5-0 win are in danger of clouding our judgment as to how well we've actually done. We will have to play top half teams. We will have to play away from home. I pray we step up, because on the evidence thus far, we're not making a charge for the top of the table any time soon. | | | |
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