| Income Tax rise ditched on 07:34 - Nov 14 with 2610 views | Steve_M |
It's pathetic, they've taken part of the hit by pitching this for the last two weeks and the attempts to fill the gap with freezing tax thresholds and minor moves elsewhere will increase the inefficiency of the tax system.
A total absence of political direction and conviction.
Edit: to add this from Bluesky:
Why seek political office if you have a stonking majority and you use it to…endlessly fret about losing your majority rather than running a country? It’s no good. There is no theory for how to make things better. It’s not even well managed decline. — Tomas Hirst (@tomashirstecon.bsky.social) 2025-11-13T23:08:32.929Z
[Post edited 14 Nov 7:53]
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| Income Tax rise ditched on 07:36 - Nov 14 with 2584 views | Swansea_Blue |
Labour policy…
This seems simultaneously bad (something needs to be done) and good (breaking that manifesto pledge would have been fatal). So maybe not what we need but will be less damaging to Labour, although it looks like they’re toast already. Such a massive disappointment after waiting years for the Tory misery to end. |  |
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| Income Tax rise ditched on 07:39 - Nov 14 with 2568 views | TractorWood |
| Income Tax rise ditched on 07:34 - Nov 14 by Steve_M |
It's pathetic, they've taken part of the hit by pitching this for the last two weeks and the attempts to fill the gap with freezing tax thresholds and minor moves elsewhere will increase the inefficiency of the tax system.
A total absence of political direction and conviction.
Edit: to add this from Bluesky:
Why seek political office if you have a stonking majority and you use it to…endlessly fret about losing your majority rather than running a country? It’s no good. There is no theory for how to make things better. It’s not even well managed decline. — Tomas Hirst (@tomashirstecon.bsky.social) 2025-11-13T23:08:32.929Z
[Post edited 14 Nov 7:53]
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I think we're seeing the reality of a policy by leak approach/socialisation approach. Everyone will just say it doesn't work. |  |
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| Income Tax rise ditched on 07:46 - Nov 14 with 2503 views | noggin |
British politics really has become a basket case. Is it even possible to sort out the economy and improve the lives of the poorer members of society? |  |
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| Income Tax rise ditched on 08:07 - Nov 14 with 2406 views | DJR |
Given the dire state of public finances before the Budget, their desire not to cut spending or to tinker with their fiscal rule, they put all their eggs in the basket of economic growth, something that I thought was foolish given growth has been rather elusive these last 15 years.
They should not have gone into the election with their tax pledge, and as a starting point should have reversed the reckless Tory NI cuts.
To put it another way, they've been hoisted by their own petard. [Post edited 14 Nov 8:10]
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| Income Tax rise ditched on 08:16 - Nov 14 with 2340 views | nrb1985 |
| Income Tax rise ditched on 08:07 - Nov 14 by DJR |
Given the dire state of public finances before the Budget, their desire not to cut spending or to tinker with their fiscal rule, they put all their eggs in the basket of economic growth, something that I thought was foolish given growth has been rather elusive these last 15 years.
They should not have gone into the election with their tax pledge, and as a starting point should have reversed the reckless Tory NI cuts.
To put it another way, they've been hoisted by their own petard. [Post edited 14 Nov 8:10]
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Where's all the trillions from scrapping the non dom scheme though?!
I jest of course.
Why are they scrapping the exit tax as well? Even people from my world thought that was fair and reasonable!
On the growth subject, what I always land on is the massive structural issues in the UK and Europe in terms demographics, sluggish growth etc etc simply cannot be solved by people that have to think in 5 year election cycles. Swansea blues GIF above sums it up perfectly.
Maybe AI will be the saviour (I think it will) but that's also not without it's problems to put it mildly. [Post edited 14 Nov 8:20]
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| Income Tax rise ditched on 08:19 - Nov 14 with 2312 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Income Tax rise ditched on 08:07 - Nov 14 by DJR |
Given the dire state of public finances before the Budget, their desire not to cut spending or to tinker with their fiscal rule, they put all their eggs in the basket of economic growth, something that I thought was foolish given growth has been rather elusive these last 15 years.
They should not have gone into the election with their tax pledge, and as a starting point should have reversed the reckless Tory NI cuts.
To put it another way, they've been hoisted by their own petard. [Post edited 14 Nov 8:10]
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They’ve also managed to stifle growth with rumours of big tax hikes, a lot of the damage is already done as firms have put hiring and investment on hold in anticipation. They really do seem rudderless. | | | |
| Income Tax rise ditched on 08:26 - Nov 14 with 2271 views | MrPotatoHead |
It’s a circus. Whoever is in power I don’t have any confidence they will improve the lives of the people who put them there. |  | | |
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| Income Tax rise ditched on 08:29 - Nov 14 with 2257 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Income Tax rise ditched on 07:46 - Nov 14 by noggin |
British politics really has become a basket case. Is it even possible to sort out the economy and improve the lives of the poorer members of society? |
Is it possible? Possibly not given the conditioning that’s gone over many years. A broadly centrist coalition of liberals, centre-right conservatives and some social democrat greens like you often get in European countries would be seen as extreme lefties over here and constantly attacked by press/pundits, even though they’d largely operate how governments have thought the 21st C so far (maybe with less ‘austerity’).
As we’ve seen with Brexit and the surge in the polls for Reform, the UK’s public knows no limits to self-harm. It’s a form of cognitive dissonance on a national scale: ‘things aren’t going well, so I want to make them worse’. | |
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| Income Tax rise ditched on 08:30 - Nov 14 with 2261 views | Kieran_Knows |
| Income Tax rise ditched on 08:26 - Nov 14 by MrPotatoHead |
It’s a circus. Whoever is in power I don’t have any confidence they will improve the lives of the people who put them there. |
They’re all w4nkers.
Labour get in - spend 4 years blaming everything the Tories had done the previous 4 years.
Tories get in - spend 4 years blaming everything Labour had done the previous 4 years.
Rinse and repeat, over and over again. |  |
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| Income Tax rise ditched on 08:39 - Nov 14 with 2192 views | DanTheMan |
| Income Tax rise ditched on 08:16 - Nov 14 by nrb1985 |
Where's all the trillions from scrapping the non dom scheme though?!
I jest of course.
Why are they scrapping the exit tax as well? Even people from my world thought that was fair and reasonable!
On the growth subject, what I always land on is the massive structural issues in the UK and Europe in terms demographics, sluggish growth etc etc simply cannot be solved by people that have to think in 5 year election cycles. Swansea blues GIF above sums it up perfectly.
Maybe AI will be the saviour (I think it will) but that's also not without it's problems to put it mildly. [Post edited 14 Nov 8:20]
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AI will not be the saviour given it struggles to do simple tasks chained together. |  |
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| Income Tax rise ditched on 08:45 - Nov 14 with 2141 views | nrb1985 |
| Income Tax rise ditched on 08:39 - Nov 14 by DanTheMan |
AI will not be the saviour given it struggles to do simple tasks chained together. |
Don't agree, I think this is the begining of a fourth industrial revolution.
It's already having an impact on productivity in the US for example - the unemployment rate is rising but corporate profits are rising too. The US labour market hiring is basically at a stand still also - so companies are already doing more with less.
Now, clearly, that's not ideal and things like UBI will need to be considered with time - but in terms of productivity etc, that could be enormous and we are only in the first innings.
That's before we even get to humanoids and generative AI. [Post edited 14 Nov 8:58]
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| Income Tax rise ditched on 08:45 - Nov 14 with 2139 views | homer_123 |
| Income Tax rise ditched on 08:26 - Nov 14 by MrPotatoHead |
It’s a circus. Whoever is in power I don’t have any confidence they will improve the lives of the people who put them there. |
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| Income Tax rise ditched on 08:48 - Nov 14 with 2125 views | Herbivore |
What an absolute shit show. Just as chaotic and incompetent as their predecessors at this point. Looking forward to the centrist dads explaining why we're so much better off with a Labour government that's more or less indistinguishable from Cameron's Tories. |  |
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| Income Tax rise ditched on 08:49 - Nov 14 with 2118 views | homer_123 |
| Income Tax rise ditched on 08:45 - Nov 14 by nrb1985 |
Don't agree, I think this is the begining of a fourth industrial revolution.
It's already having an impact on productivity in the US for example - the unemployment rate is rising but corporate profits are rising too. The US labour market hiring is basically at a stand still also - so companies are already doing more with less.
Now, clearly, that's not ideal and things like UBI will need to be considered with time - but in terms of productivity etc, that could be enormous and we are only in the first innings.
That's before we even get to humanoids and generative AI. [Post edited 14 Nov 8:58]
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"...the unemployment rate is rising but corporate profits are rising too."
And therein lies our biggest issue - 'SHOW ME THE MONEY'!
Now, whilst making money and profit is not a bad thing and shouldn't be - it is in the way the world is setup at the moment. In that social mobility is moving backwards at a pace, the cohort that 'have' is now much smaller than it has ever been and yet control more wealth than ever.
The cold, hard reality from a political standpoint is that those with wealth now have an unhealthy sway on the geopolitical agenda.
I'm not sure that AI is any kind of solution to the situation we have put ourselves in. Well, there is one things it might do...... | |
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| Income Tax rise ditched on 08:50 - Nov 14 with 2105 views | homer_123 |
| Income Tax rise ditched on 08:48 - Nov 14 by Herbivore |
What an absolute shit show. Just as chaotic and incompetent as their predecessors at this point. Looking forward to the centrist dads explaining why we're so much better off with a Labour government that's more or less indistinguishable from Cameron's Tories. |
And it all it does is, ultimately, play into Reforms hands. | |
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| Income Tax rise ditched on 08:53 - Nov 14 with 2079 views | Herbivore |
| Income Tax rise ditched on 08:45 - Nov 14 by nrb1985 |
Don't agree, I think this is the begining of a fourth industrial revolution.
It's already having an impact on productivity in the US for example - the unemployment rate is rising but corporate profits are rising too. The US labour market hiring is basically at a stand still also - so companies are already doing more with less.
Now, clearly, that's not ideal and things like UBI will need to be considered with time - but in terms of productivity etc, that could be enormous and we are only in the first innings.
That's before we even get to humanoids and generative AI. [Post edited 14 Nov 8:58]
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But productivity isn't going to be much use to anyone if nobody can afford the stuff that's being produced because they've lost their jobs to AI. Corporate profits often rise at times where everyone else is struggling, corporations like to rinse every last bit of capital they can out of the system while giving back as little as possible. It's kind of how they operate. UBI is a pipe dream at the moment, how are you going to persuade global corporations who do everything possible to limit their tax liabilities to stump up the kind of money needed to fund UBi? | |
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| Income Tax rise ditched on 08:54 - Nov 14 with 2077 views | nrb1985 |
| Income Tax rise ditched on 08:49 - Nov 14 by homer_123 |
"...the unemployment rate is rising but corporate profits are rising too."
And therein lies our biggest issue - 'SHOW ME THE MONEY'!
Now, whilst making money and profit is not a bad thing and shouldn't be - it is in the way the world is setup at the moment. In that social mobility is moving backwards at a pace, the cohort that 'have' is now much smaller than it has ever been and yet control more wealth than ever.
The cold, hard reality from a political standpoint is that those with wealth now have an unhealthy sway on the geopolitical agenda.
I'm not sure that AI is any kind of solution to the situation we have put ourselves in. Well, there is one things it might do...... |
You're missing the point.
How do you solve the growth issues and the demographic time bomb we have in europe and the west without these types of tools?
My point about profits was simply to highlight how it's already proving quite effective from a productivity perspective - which for a country like ours with low growth and low productivity but high debt to gdp, could be an enormous boon. [Post edited 14 Nov 9:05]
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| Income Tax rise ditched on 08:55 - Nov 14 with 2067 views | Herbivore |
| Income Tax rise ditched on 08:50 - Nov 14 by homer_123 |
And it all it does is, ultimately, play into Reforms hands. |
Absolutely. All Labour needed to do was come in and be vaguely competent in order to look much better than the lost lot. They've spent 16 months scoring own goal after own goal while having no vision for what they want the country to be and no sense of direction whatsoever. Still, at least the grown ups are in charge. | |
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| Income Tax rise ditched on 08:56 - Nov 14 with 2058 views | nrb1985 |
| Income Tax rise ditched on 08:53 - Nov 14 by Herbivore |
But productivity isn't going to be much use to anyone if nobody can afford the stuff that's being produced because they've lost their jobs to AI. Corporate profits often rise at times where everyone else is struggling, corporations like to rinse every last bit of capital they can out of the system while giving back as little as possible. It's kind of how they operate. UBI is a pipe dream at the moment, how are you going to persuade global corporations who do everything possible to limit their tax liabilities to stump up the kind of money needed to fund UBi? |
All the evidence from the printing press to the steam engine suggests that new technologies generally create more jobs not less.
Now, how you get a truck driver on side with that who can be replaced by robo taxi or similar I have no idea but new technologies generally over time produce more jobs not less. Hopefully, higher skilled better paid jobs too (and more productive ones).
I don't have one to hand but google the above and you'll find hundreds of white papers on this.
[Post edited 14 Nov 8:58]
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| Income Tax rise ditched on 09:00 - Nov 14 with 2024 views | homer_123 |
| Income Tax rise ditched on 08:54 - Nov 14 by nrb1985 |
You're missing the point.
How do you solve the growth issues and the demographic time bomb we have in europe and the west without these types of tools?
My point about profits was simply to highlight how it's already proving quite effective from a productivity perspective - which for a country like ours with low growth and low productivity but high debt to gdp, could be an enormous boon. [Post edited 14 Nov 9:05]
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My point is, we might be chasing the wrong things. | |
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| Income Tax rise ditched on 09:03 - Nov 14 with 1997 views | nrb1985 |
| Income Tax rise ditched on 09:00 - Nov 14 by homer_123 |
My point is, we might be chasing the wrong things. |
like higher growth, less debt and increased productivity?!
Out of interest, what's your solution then to the issue of things like demographics we have in the west? What should we be chasing?
Lower growth and more debt? | | | |
| Income Tax rise ditched on 09:04 - Nov 14 with 1995 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Income Tax rise ditched on 08:07 - Nov 14 by DJR |
Given the dire state of public finances before the Budget, their desire not to cut spending or to tinker with their fiscal rule, they put all their eggs in the basket of economic growth, something that I thought was foolish given growth has been rather elusive these last 15 years.
They should not have gone into the election with their tax pledge, and as a starting point should have reversed the reckless Tory NI cuts.
To put it another way, they've been hoisted by their own petard. [Post edited 14 Nov 8:10]
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Perfect response.
The original idea was add 2p in the £ to income tax and take 2p in the £ off National Insurance. In other words, for anyone under pension age and in standard tax bracket no increase at all.
It would have meant an overall tax/NI increase for two groups of people Pensioners and higher earners. Hitting pensioners wouldn’t be seen as a Socialist thing to do. Making high earners pay more would be seen by the majority as fair. Could have solved it by increasing tax codes for pensioners by a modest amount.
Think I read somewhere that the extra revenue raised would be in excess of £5B. That
Money still needs to be raised and Council Tax will no doubt be seen as an easy target. The problem with that is it disproportionately hits lower earners.
Labour will be swept away in May elections and many councils will fall into the hands of those not equipped to run them.
Starmer is gutless and Reeves isn’t fit to be Chancellor. . |  |
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| Income Tax rise ditched on 09:05 - Nov 14 with 1982 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Income Tax rise ditched on 08:45 - Nov 14 by nrb1985 |
Don't agree, I think this is the begining of a fourth industrial revolution.
It's already having an impact on productivity in the US for example - the unemployment rate is rising but corporate profits are rising too. The US labour market hiring is basically at a stand still also - so companies are already doing more with less.
Now, clearly, that's not ideal and things like UBI will need to be considered with time - but in terms of productivity etc, that could be enormous and we are only in the first innings.
That's before we even get to humanoids and generative AI. [Post edited 14 Nov 8:58]
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The sociopaths have taken over the asylum. |  |
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| Income Tax rise ditched on 09:09 - Nov 14 with 1949 views | Herbivore |
| Income Tax rise ditched on 08:56 - Nov 14 by nrb1985 |
All the evidence from the printing press to the steam engine suggests that new technologies generally create more jobs not less.
Now, how you get a truck driver on side with that who can be replaced by robo taxi or similar I have no idea but new technologies generally over time produce more jobs not less. Hopefully, higher skilled better paid jobs too (and more productive ones).
I don't have one to hand but google the above and you'll find hundreds of white papers on this.
[Post edited 14 Nov 8:58]
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So you don't know how exactly but it's definitely going to make things better. Cool.
We've already seen advances in technology over time have eroded jobs in things like manufacturing and agriculture. The kind of jobs that replaced them, office jobs and jobs in the service sector, will ultimately be cut drastically by AI as it progresses. What kind of jobs do you think will replace them? Salaries are almost always the biggest cost base for any business, there is no incentive for business to create replacement jobs when they can increase profits by shifting to AI. It won't be sustainable of course because if nobody has a job then nobody can afford to spend but I've yet to see many credible solutions being proposed for that particular problem. | |
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