| The issue for me is a consistent centre back pairing 23:19 - Nov 29 with 1094 views | kizaitfc |
We looked our strongest during our last championship campaign when we finally released Wolfenden and Burgess were the solid pair. It didn't necessarily mean they were the best CBs at the club many would argue Edmundson and Tuanzabee were individually better center halves but playing a consistent pair gave stability and cohesion.
I don't really care who is better between Kipre or Greaves I think both have strengths and weaknesses but just stick with one and allow a partnership to form not just with Oshea but also the Davis and the midfield.
The way we play we need to have a common rhythm in the CBs and feel we lost that last night compared to what we had against Hull |  |
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| The issue for me is a consistent centre back pairing on 00:13 - Nov 30 with 1011 views | bournemouthblue |
I guarantee we will concede less than that promotion season, we weren't all that at the back but it didn't matter because we outscored most teams
It's going forward where the problems lie, for me it's not the ability of players but really the balance and we lack extremes which would make us so more dangerous, be it size, power or heading abiity
We are a fairly lightweight side aerially going forward and don't have the pace to stretch sides that we had with Burns in the side, Burns was very important to opening sides up |  |
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| The issue for me is a consistent centre back pairing on 00:40 - Nov 30 with 960 views | redrickstuhaart |
| The issue for me is a consistent centre back pairing on 00:13 - Nov 30 by bournemouthblue |
I guarantee we will concede less than that promotion season, we weren't all that at the back but it didn't matter because we outscored most teams
It's going forward where the problems lie, for me it's not the ability of players but really the balance and we lack extremes which would make us so more dangerous, be it size, power or heading abiity
We are a fairly lightweight side aerially going forward and don't have the pace to stretch sides that we had with Burns in the side, Burns was very important to opening sides up |
Speed (why must we keep saying pace which does not necessarily entail speed!?) is something we really lack. Our key ball carriers can beat a man but not stay ahead of them, so they always cut back. Our key strikers do not have the speed to get in behind consistently, so defenders can play tight to them without fear. A properly fast player or two in those positions, changes a lot. Defenders step off, spaces open and runs are more dangerous. No one across our front 4 is genuinely fast. | | | |
| The issue for me is a consistent centre back pairing on 01:09 - Nov 30 with 918 views | kizaitfc |
| The issue for me is a consistent centre back pairing on 00:13 - Nov 30 by bournemouthblue |
I guarantee we will concede less than that promotion season, we weren't all that at the back but it didn't matter because we outscored most teams
It's going forward where the problems lie, for me it's not the ability of players but really the balance and we lack extremes which would make us so more dangerous, be it size, power or heading abiity
We are a fairly lightweight side aerially going forward and don't have the pace to stretch sides that we had with Burns in the side, Burns was very important to opening sides up |
I am not saying the issue with changing CBs is a defensive issue.
We use our CBs for a lot of our general game play, constantly changing them I feel affects the overall balance of the team.
Overall I think the general changes effects the team, Coventry, Middlesborough and Stoke have predominantly played the same 11 most of this season. | |
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| The issue for me is a consistent centre back pairing on 01:35 - Nov 30 with 885 views | tonybied |
| The issue for me is a consistent centre back pairing on 00:13 - Nov 30 by bournemouthblue |
I guarantee we will concede less than that promotion season, we weren't all that at the back but it didn't matter because we outscored most teams
It's going forward where the problems lie, for me it's not the ability of players but really the balance and we lack extremes which would make us so more dangerous, be it size, power or heading abiity
We are a fairly lightweight side aerially going forward and don't have the pace to stretch sides that we had with Burns in the side, Burns was very important to opening sides up |
Exactly, before the Oxford game we had the 2nd best defensive record in the league. Not sure now as I haven't looked, but it doesn't exactly scream issues with the defence. We're just not creating enough clear cut chances - for all our dominance of the ball - and not taking them when we do.
Edit - Just checked again, now joint 2nd with Cov. It's still only Stoke with a less goals conceded. [Post edited 30 Nov 1:38]
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| The issue for me is a consistent centre back pairing on 01:53 - Nov 30 with 864 views | Smoresy |
| The issue for me is a consistent centre back pairing on 00:40 - Nov 30 by redrickstuhaart |
Speed (why must we keep saying pace which does not necessarily entail speed!?) is something we really lack. Our key ball carriers can beat a man but not stay ahead of them, so they always cut back. Our key strikers do not have the speed to get in behind consistently, so defenders can play tight to them without fear. A properly fast player or two in those positions, changes a lot. Defenders step off, spaces open and runs are more dangerous. No one across our front 4 is genuinely fast. |
As a keen Garmin user in my youth, pace and speed both tell us how fast someone's going. They're simply inverse measurements, with speed being distance over time and pace being time over distance. Someone reaching a sprint speed of 22 mph is reaching a sprint pace of 02:44 per mile for instance, much as one expression may feel clunkier than the other.
Do you mean acceleration? Now that is a different kettle of fish. It's a missing ingredient for sure, speed and/or acceleration, with Burns long-term crocked. Proper speedsters make life easier. McAteer looks our next fastest to me but we don't see his pace very often in an attacking sense, running onto forward passes, so I'm not sure if he regularly has the advantage here over fullbacks or not. | | | |
| The issue for me is a consistent centre back pairing on 06:50 - Nov 30 with 755 views | Blue_Heath |
| The issue for me is a consistent centre back pairing on 00:13 - Nov 30 by bournemouthblue |
I guarantee we will concede less than that promotion season, we weren't all that at the back but it didn't matter because we outscored most teams
It's going forward where the problems lie, for me it's not the ability of players but really the balance and we lack extremes which would make us so more dangerous, be it size, power or heading abiity
We are a fairly lightweight side aerially going forward and don't have the pace to stretch sides that we had with Burns in the side, Burns was very important to opening sides up |
Fair point being defence has never been that great under KM which is another long term concern if we go back up. But you are right we have become masters at signing non scoring attackers.
That second Oxford goal was classic Burns, that is what we need to do against low block teams when they lose the ball in our half break at speed. | |
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| The issue for me is a consistent centre back pairing on 07:30 - Nov 30 with 701 views | ArnieM |
| The issue for me is a consistent centre back pairing on 01:53 - Nov 30 by Smoresy |
As a keen Garmin user in my youth, pace and speed both tell us how fast someone's going. They're simply inverse measurements, with speed being distance over time and pace being time over distance. Someone reaching a sprint speed of 22 mph is reaching a sprint pace of 02:44 per mile for instance, much as one expression may feel clunkier than the other.
Do you mean acceleration? Now that is a different kettle of fish. It's a missing ingredient for sure, speed and/or acceleration, with Burns long-term crocked. Proper speedsters make life easier. McAteer looks our next fastest to me but we don't see his pace very often in an attacking sense, running onto forward passes, so I'm not sure if he regularly has the advantage here over fullbacks or not. |
Tbh we dont really know if our players gave acceleration, or speed or pace becyase they are COACHED to play a certain way, slow, measured, pedestrian , stop, walk etc with the ball. Its McKenna's brand / style/ identity of football, and its become boring and predictable to watch and sure as hell a tactic opposition managers have now got around. Look how Oxford completely out thought McKenna's usual 70 min subs by bring in two lots of subs within 5 mins which saw them tear into us and nullify McKenna's usual push to win a game in the final 20 mins. |  |
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| The issue for me is a consistent centre back pairing on 09:42 - Nov 30 with 562 views | bournemouthblue |
| The issue for me is a consistent centre back pairing on 01:53 - Nov 30 by Smoresy |
As a keen Garmin user in my youth, pace and speed both tell us how fast someone's going. They're simply inverse measurements, with speed being distance over time and pace being time over distance. Someone reaching a sprint speed of 22 mph is reaching a sprint pace of 02:44 per mile for instance, much as one expression may feel clunkier than the other.
Do you mean acceleration? Now that is a different kettle of fish. It's a missing ingredient for sure, speed and/or acceleration, with Burns long-term crocked. Proper speedsters make life easier. McAteer looks our next fastest to me but we don't see his pace very often in an attacking sense, running onto forward passes, so I'm not sure if he regularly has the advantage here over fullbacks or not. |
Both O'Shea and Ogbene were clocked at the top end of PL sprint speeds the year before we signed them
Obviously we have loaned out Ogbene who didn't quite look the player he was pre-injury, time will if Burns is back at his very fastest
McAteer maybe quick but he doesn't always make that outside run we need, I really hope he grows into the role because the boo boys seem determined for him to fail
Jack Clarke seems about our fastest ball carrier
Szmodics is probably the one player we have who makes those classic straight runs through. You could play him as a striker if we had a more physical number 10, doing some of the number 9 work
Could you get funky and play Azon in the 10 at times?
I wouldn't be surprised if we signed another 10, Ruben Colwill at Cardiff looks very talented as an example | |
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| The issue for me is a consistent centre back pairing on 09:44 - Nov 30 with 555 views | bournemouthblue |
| The issue for me is a consistent centre back pairing on 01:53 - Nov 30 by Smoresy |
As a keen Garmin user in my youth, pace and speed both tell us how fast someone's going. They're simply inverse measurements, with speed being distance over time and pace being time over distance. Someone reaching a sprint speed of 22 mph is reaching a sprint pace of 02:44 per mile for instance, much as one expression may feel clunkier than the other.
Do you mean acceleration? Now that is a different kettle of fish. It's a missing ingredient for sure, speed and/or acceleration, with Burns long-term crocked. Proper speedsters make life easier. McAteer looks our next fastest to me but we don't see his pace very often in an attacking sense, running onto forward passes, so I'm not sure if he regularly has the advantage here over fullbacks or not. |
Both O'Shea and Ogbene were clocked at the top end of PL sprint speeds the year before we signed them
Obviously we have loaned out Ogbene who didn't quite look the player he was pre-injury, time will if Burns is back at his very fastest
McAteer maybe quick but he doesn't always make that outside run we need, I really hope he grows into the role because the boo boys seem determined for him to fail
Jack Clarke seems about our fastest ball carrier
Szmodics is probably the one player we have who makes those classic straight runs through. You could play him as a striker if we had a more physical number 10, doing some of the number 9 work
Could you get funky and play Azon in the 10 at times?
I wouldn't be surprised if we signed another 10, Rubin Colwill at Cardiff looks very talented as an example | |
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| The issue for me is a consistent centre back pairing on 09:47 - Nov 30 with 538 views | Herbivore |
I don't think the odd change at LCB has had a massive impact on our performances, personally. Our biggest issue is that we aren't converting enough chances at the top end of the pitch. After 17 games (i.e. before Coventry had played their 18th) we had created the most big chances in the league this season. But we have also, by a distance, missed the most big chances in the league. We can pore over lots of little details about selection, tactics, etc. but it really boils down to us not being clinical enough. Despite not hitting top form yet, if we were even fairly average at taking our big chances we'd be top 2 and not far off Coventry. Whether it's Greaves or Kipre at the back isn't going to change that massively. |  |
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| The issue for me is a consistent centre back pairing on 13:52 - Nov 30 with 382 views | Nutkins_Return |
Our biggest weakness in that promotion season without the ball was the defence. Tuanzebe and Burgess were decent defensively. Woolfenden was ok but his qualities were more on the ball (same with Gladky quite honestly as was a very average keeper with exceptional qualities on the ball for a keeper).
It's a revision of history that we were defensively sound. We weren't. What were were was a much more dynamic and fluid team that had built patterns over 2-3 years and would regularly go out and back ourselves to score more than we concede.
We have better players overall now but we are miles of the cohesive unit if that team so far.
I would like to see us stuck with oshea and Greaves second half of the season though. I think we will bed a side down more for the last 20 games or so. | |
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| The issue for me is a consistent centre back pairing on 15:13 - Nov 30 with 309 views | FrimleyBlue |
My issue with it is that when Greaves came in, he looked like an incredible defender, fast, powerful, could pass and he was managing prem players extremely well. He got injured and imo never looked the same after
Recently however imo we've begun to see the real Greaves again, yet he gets dropped and then back in then dropped.
There's simply no need for it |  |
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| The issue for me is a consistent centre back pairing on 15:35 - Nov 30 with 277 views | DavoIPB |
We had a terrible defensive record that year but just scored loads of goals. Our defence was more of a liability in the promotion year. Our problem is we miss most of our shots and the opposition score with theirs. | | | |
| The issue for me is a consistent centre back pairing on 15:39 - Nov 30 with 267 views | FrimleyBlue |
| The issue for me is a consistent centre back pairing on 09:47 - Nov 30 by Herbivore |
I don't think the odd change at LCB has had a massive impact on our performances, personally. Our biggest issue is that we aren't converting enough chances at the top end of the pitch. After 17 games (i.e. before Coventry had played their 18th) we had created the most big chances in the league this season. But we have also, by a distance, missed the most big chances in the league. We can pore over lots of little details about selection, tactics, etc. but it really boils down to us not being clinical enough. Despite not hitting top form yet, if we were even fairly average at taking our big chances we'd be top 2 and not far off Coventry. Whether it's Greaves or Kipre at the back isn't going to change that massively. |
Its in the detail though imo Herbz
Kipre on friday, slowed play down and it also upsets the balance slightly on the left side, he's also not that great with a diag which could have found egeli, where as greaves has been getting better at it imo.
It's also a really pointless change to make. [Post edited 30 Nov 15:39]
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| The issue for me is a consistent centre back pairing on 16:03 - Nov 30 with 245 views | Herbivore |
| The issue for me is a consistent centre back pairing on 15:39 - Nov 30 by FrimleyBlue |
Its in the detail though imo Herbz
Kipre on friday, slowed play down and it also upsets the balance slightly on the left side, he's also not that great with a diag which could have found egeli, where as greaves has been getting better at it imo.
It's also a really pointless change to make. [Post edited 30 Nov 15:39]
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Kipre for Greaves wasn't why we lost on Friday. Missing several good opportunities and gifting the opposition two soft goals was why we lost. | |
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| The issue for me is a consistent centre back pairing on 16:16 - Nov 30 with 220 views | FrimleyBlue |
| The issue for me is a consistent centre back pairing on 16:03 - Nov 30 by Herbivore |
Kipre for Greaves wasn't why we lost on Friday. Missing several good opportunities and gifting the opposition two soft goals was why we lost. |
Whilst true
Having greaves may have giving us a draw instead as kipre was jogging back when that ball went wide to their 2nd scorer.
But also we dont know what other opportunities may have come for us via a greaves diag to an egeli etc.
Obv greaves could have had a mare too. We dont know
But its still a very weird rotation to have. I dont understand the need for it | |
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| The issue for me is a consistent centre back pairing on 16:19 - Nov 30 with 217 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| The issue for me is a consistent centre back pairing on 16:03 - Nov 30 by Herbivore |
Kipre for Greaves wasn't why we lost on Friday. Missing several good opportunities and gifting the opposition two soft goals was why we lost. |
Not sure it always helps though, both CBs also gave the ball away more than usual Friday. O’Shea had one right on HT that could have been another terrible goal giving away. Might just be a coincidence but long term partnerships can’t hurt with how we play out.
Unless an opposition player/striker dictates a change, I’d rather see it more settled. Of course the main issue is to get the front line firing and converting chances at the other end, so no argument from me there but I can’t say I love CB rotation. [Post edited 30 Nov 16:21]
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| The issue for me is a consistent centre back pairing on 16:24 - Nov 30 with 201 views | Herbivore |
| The issue for me is a consistent centre back pairing on 16:19 - Nov 30 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
Not sure it always helps though, both CBs also gave the ball away more than usual Friday. O’Shea had one right on HT that could have been another terrible goal giving away. Might just be a coincidence but long term partnerships can’t hurt with how we play out.
Unless an opposition player/striker dictates a change, I’d rather see it more settled. Of course the main issue is to get the front line firing and converting chances at the other end, so no argument from me there but I can’t say I love CB rotation. [Post edited 30 Nov 16:21]
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O'Shea gives the ball away dangerously at least once a game regardless of who is alongside him though, I'm not sure who his partner is makes loads of difference. I don't disagree that we'd be better off sticking with a settled partnership other than to counter specific opponents as we've done in the past, I just don't see it as being one of our major problems right now. | |
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| The issue for me is a consistent centre back pairing on 16:33 - Nov 30 with 188 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| The issue for me is a consistent centre back pairing on 16:24 - Nov 30 by Herbivore |
O'Shea gives the ball away dangerously at least once a game regardless of who is alongside him though, I'm not sure who his partner is makes loads of difference. I don't disagree that we'd be better off sticking with a settled partnership other than to counter specific opponents as we've done in the past, I just don't see it as being one of our major problems right now. |
Yeah we are on the same page there. Giving the ball away needs to stop though it can lead to disaster and change a game like Friday. Not that we are going to change the way we play but can’t have it weekly. | |
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| The issue for me is a consistent centre back pairing on 16:37 - Nov 30 with 182 views | OldFart71 |
It's far more of a problem having five forwards with two goals between them. But this idea that players struggle to play three games in a week seems a bit OTT to me. How did the likes of Beattie and Hunter get on with far worse pitches than a majority of teams play on today.
Maybe the chopping and changing which normally involves five or six players per game doesn't lead to the building of partnerships.
Whether it be Philogene or Clarke, Hirst of Akpom, Egeli or McAteer they score a goal and then don't start the next game.Azon or Akpom haven't been given a run in the team. How do we know if they are what we need. If it was the case that all the players we had brought in, many being previous highest top scores in the Championship, we actually knew they we as good as previously then we could say great we will keep them. But Egeli and Szmodics apart we have no idea as they don't play enough games.
What is it that prevents former top scorers from scoring goals. Either they are past it or we are doing something badly wrong. Whatever it is we just aren't performing to a level where we can say a £125 million plus group of new players are worth what we paid for them and whilst teams against us will all look to put one over us we should have the necessary to beat them. Perhaps the Running towards Adversity are only words to some of our players and they haven't cottoned on that this is what they are bought and paid to do. | | | |
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