| When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? 09:07 - Dec 3 with 2106 views | portmanking |
If things continue to drift like this through December, do we carry on backing McKenna out of blind faith? Are we happy to write the season off and go again next year with McKenna in the hope that it clicks in 26/27?! Comfortably the weakest Champ league I've seen in years and we're blowing it big style.
The lack of team spirit and personality in last night's team was hugely evident for me. The current side almost feels too structured, with our flair players not allowed to play off the cuff. The back-to-back side had a clear structure, but they played with real fluidity too.
Surely it's okay to love and respect McKenna for what he's done with us in the last four years but question the direction we're heading in? That's a balanced view, right? I haven't seen Kieran look that angry in a long time. Looked like he was chewing a wasp for most of that second half. |  | | |  |
| When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? on 09:53 - Dec 3 with 379 views | portmanking |
| When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? on 09:48 - Dec 3 by jasondozzell |
It's insane imo and really entitled stuff.
Look at the league table. It really isn't a disaster. Look at those sides in the top 6. What do you notice? I notice that they are sides that have been together with their manager for a good spell of time.
Compare that to us. KM has had 13 or so games with effectively a new squad and team.
'Wtite off the season'. It's just crazy talk. We've not been anywhere near as good as we need to be but equally we're nowhere near as bad as people are making out.
We need to improve. There is no manager I back to do that more than KM.
I feel like some of our support have no idea about the championship. |
Who are you to tell me I'm entitled for asking the questions? While we're at it, I think your posts are inane copium, but hey ho.
It's been 18 games. Almost half a season. We've seen 2-3 flashes of dominance amongst a sea of average. Like I've said elsewhere, I could get it if we can see that we *are* coming together and it's just a matter of time before results follow. But the body language, general spirit and cohesion of the squad is diabolical. If you can't acknowledge that then that's on you, not me.
As I've said elsewhere. I'm not expecting us to be 15 points clear like Coventry. But for the best part of £60m invested, I would be wanting us to look like an established top 6 team by now. Instead, we look like a team that's desperately hanging onto the coat tails of the playoffs, running the risk of being caught in a bunfight for two playoff places with a dozen other teams. | | | |
| When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? on 09:54 - Dec 3 with 378 views | BseaBlue |
| When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? on 09:48 - Dec 3 by jasondozzell |
It's insane imo and really entitled stuff.
Look at the league table. It really isn't a disaster. Look at those sides in the top 6. What do you notice? I notice that they are sides that have been together with their manager for a good spell of time.
Compare that to us. KM has had 13 or so games with effectively a new squad and team.
'Wtite off the season'. It's just crazy talk. We've not been anywhere near as good as we need to be but equally we're nowhere near as bad as people are making out.
We need to improve. There is no manager I back to do that more than KM.
I feel like some of our support have no idea about the championship. |
'I feel like some of our support have no idea about the championship.'
Sorry but that is absolute tosh. A whole generation of our supporters have hardly known anything other than the championship.
I agree with you by the way that we need to stick with him but outside of the results alone, the performances have been nowhere near good enough which is why people are asking questions. |  | | |
| When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? on 09:58 - Dec 3 with 363 views | portmanking |
| When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? on 09:51 - Dec 3 by SomethingBlue |
That was bad last night, not one good thing beyond a great moment for Sindre who will really kick on now. Weak, milky, careless, no aggression. And a few of the issues we showed are repeating themselves a little too much. But personal view is that a few are willing the crisis element on way too heavily when the overall position doesn't back it up. Maybe they need the drama, and I understand that in this day & age because it's the way people have been conditioned, but it's way too overwrought for me – things are fairly meh in this spell but we are within touching distance of the promotion places and should still be heavily backed to improve. Let's hope it is enough.
Definitely need a good December amid a tough run, I agree, but it's very hard to see things completely tanking. [Post edited 3 Dec 9:55]
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Trust me, I don't *need* the drama. But can you seriously say that this is a team heading in the right direction? It's looked listless and sloppy for most of the season, with a healthy dose of individual magic thrown in for good measure. | | | |
| When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? on 09:58 - Dec 3 with 362 views | jasondozzell |
| When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? on 09:53 - Dec 3 by Marshalls_Mullet |
I dont really think any other sides have had a longer spell with their players and manager than we have.
KM has had a HUGE budget and control over how his squad evolves. He could happily choose a starting XI that has primarily been here for 12 months or so.
I dont think that KM should go, but he does have every available advantage over the rest of the league. We are c.8 points behind where we should be, and need to start turning things around. |
Those top 6 sides absolutely have.
Being in the PL means relegation = huge change and upheaval.
We've lost huge parts of the team. It's not as simple as immediately putting together a team from other parts.
No Delap, Hutch, Axel, Burg, Morsy, etc etc.
It's a really tricky period and he's effectively not even had 15 games with the new team.
Compare that to Coventry under Lampard. |  | | |
| When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? on 09:58 - Dec 3 with 358 views | portmanking |
| When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? on 09:50 - Dec 3 by lazyblue |
You should have sent the question in then |
I did. But, Jacob Henderson screened the posts and obviously cherry-picked the easy ones. | | | |
| When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? on 10:04 - Dec 3 with 330 views | SomethingBlue |
| When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? on 09:58 - Dec 3 by portmanking |
Trust me, I don't *need* the drama. But can you seriously say that this is a team heading in the right direction? It's looked listless and sloppy for most of the season, with a healthy dose of individual magic thrown in for good measure. |
That was less aimed at you than at a number of others, I must say.
It's been really patchy and last night lurched into sloppy/careless, yes. I suspect most of us thought we were onto something going into the November break and the last four games have felt like/been a step back, I get it completely. It is also fair to note that McKenna clearly has his concerns given the way he spoke last night.
If we were mid-table or below now I'd fully agree with you but I'd take a point off the play-offs/five off second while trying to build a 747 in mid-air. My main questions at this point are probably about some of the summer recruitment, for which there will be shared responsibility. We have enough firepower to correct some of the most obvious squad issues in January but should not be in the position where we need to do so. | |
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| When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? on 10:05 - Dec 3 with 330 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? on 09:58 - Dec 3 by jasondozzell |
Those top 6 sides absolutely have.
Being in the PL means relegation = huge change and upheaval.
We've lost huge parts of the team. It's not as simple as immediately putting together a team from other parts.
No Delap, Hutch, Axel, Burg, Morsy, etc etc.
It's a really tricky period and he's effectively not even had 15 games with the new team.
Compare that to Coventry under Lampard. |
It was the clubs choice to move Burg, Morsy, Chaplin etc on, so thats no excuse. KM will have been involved in those discussions.
KM has every possible advantage at his disposal. The narrative was very different against parachute clubs when we got promoted.
I really dont buy the 'new team' excuse.
Lampard took a team that was fighting relegation, and ever since has been on a promotion push.
Boro are on their 3rd manager in the past 6 months or so.
Happy to agree to differ on this one. [Post edited 3 Dec 10:06]
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| When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? on 10:06 - Dec 3 with 327 views | jasondozzell |
| When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? on 09:54 - Dec 3 by BseaBlue |
'I feel like some of our support have no idea about the championship.'
Sorry but that is absolute tosh. A whole generation of our supporters have hardly known anything other than the championship.
I agree with you by the way that we need to stick with him but outside of the results alone, the performances have been nowhere near good enough which is why people are asking questions. |
Which is why it so bizarre that some of our support is reacting like they've never seen this league! | | | |
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| When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? on 10:12 - Dec 3 with 308 views | portmanking |
| When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? on 10:04 - Dec 3 by SomethingBlue |
That was less aimed at you than at a number of others, I must say.
It's been really patchy and last night lurched into sloppy/careless, yes. I suspect most of us thought we were onto something going into the November break and the last four games have felt like/been a step back, I get it completely. It is also fair to note that McKenna clearly has his concerns given the way he spoke last night.
If we were mid-table or below now I'd fully agree with you but I'd take a point off the play-offs/five off second while trying to build a 747 in mid-air. My main questions at this point are probably about some of the summer recruitment, for which there will be shared responsibility. We have enough firepower to correct some of the most obvious squad issues in January but should not be in the position where we need to do so. |
We're on the verge of becoming a mid-table team though, aren't we? Even players that most feel we can hang our hat on (Matusiwa, Davis) are starting to look jaded as they are being flogged week in, week out due to diabolical recruitment windows.
A couple of bad results against Cov and Stoke could easily see us plummet to 14th/15th on the league's biggest budget. | | | |
| When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? on 10:12 - Dec 3 with 303 views | portmanking |
| When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? on 10:06 - Dec 3 by jasondozzell |
Which is why it so bizarre that some of our support is reacting like they've never seen this league! |
We've never seen this league having such a financial advantage over 95% of the division... | | | |
| When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? on 10:13 - Dec 3 with 297 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? on 09:58 - Dec 3 by portmanking |
I did. But, Jacob Henderson screened the posts and obviously cherry-picked the easy ones. |
You mean he picked the one praising Ashton, rather than the one asking a tricky question?!.... | |
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| When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? on 10:14 - Dec 3 with 294 views | tractorboy1978 |
| When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? on 10:04 - Dec 3 by SomethingBlue |
That was less aimed at you than at a number of others, I must say.
It's been really patchy and last night lurched into sloppy/careless, yes. I suspect most of us thought we were onto something going into the November break and the last four games have felt like/been a step back, I get it completely. It is also fair to note that McKenna clearly has his concerns given the way he spoke last night.
If we were mid-table or below now I'd fully agree with you but I'd take a point off the play-offs/five off second while trying to build a 747 in mid-air. My main questions at this point are probably about some of the summer recruitment, for which there will be shared responsibility. We have enough firepower to correct some of the most obvious squad issues in January but should not be in the position where we need to do so. |
We are closer to 16th than we are 2nd. We need to be very careful. | | | |
| When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? on 10:15 - Dec 3 with 288 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? on 10:12 - Dec 3 by portmanking |
We've never seen this league having such a financial advantage over 95% of the division... |
Remember the narrative around Leeds, Southampton and Leicester when we last got promoted?
Everything we are using as an excuse now, was used against those teams by our fans. | |
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| When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? on 10:16 - Dec 3 with 286 views | SomethingBlue |
| When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? on 10:12 - Dec 3 by portmanking |
We're on the verge of becoming a mid-table team though, aren't we? Even players that most feel we can hang our hat on (Matusiwa, Davis) are starting to look jaded as they are being flogged week in, week out due to diabolical recruitment windows.
A couple of bad results against Cov and Stoke could easily see us plummet to 14th/15th on the league's biggest budget. |
They could; we could equally be second in a week.
We're not going to argue about Matusiwa/Davis though – both looked out on their feet yesterday and it's insane that we are having to flog these guys so much. We should never have put ourselves in that position and it may be that we pay a price for it in the coming matches.
(Btw fair play to Leif for a lung-busting run at the death to partly cause the goal, which hasn't been commented on enough – he influenced the game despite a ropey personal display overall and some of his teammates can learn from that) | |
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| When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? on 10:18 - Dec 3 with 273 views | Blueschev |
| When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? on 10:12 - Dec 3 by portmanking |
We're on the verge of becoming a mid-table team though, aren't we? Even players that most feel we can hang our hat on (Matusiwa, Davis) are starting to look jaded as they are being flogged week in, week out due to diabolical recruitment windows.
A couple of bad results against Cov and Stoke could easily see us plummet to 14th/15th on the league's biggest budget. |
I think in almost every game this season we've looked like a team that hasn't quite clicked yet, but will be some force when it does. Last night was different though, we looked like an average side that were not singing from the same hymn sheet.
I still expect things will come together soon, but I do get this nagging feeling that this season feels a lot like Cook's last one. |  | | |
| When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? on 10:23 - Dec 3 with 253 views | portmanking |
| When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? on 10:18 - Dec 3 by Blueschev |
I think in almost every game this season we've looked like a team that hasn't quite clicked yet, but will be some force when it does. Last night was different though, we looked like an average side that were not singing from the same hymn sheet.
I still expect things will come together soon, but I do get this nagging feeling that this season feels a lot like Cook's last one. |
Yeah, I felt the same for the first 10/12 games, hoping to see more patterns of play and signs of life in the subsequent 6-7 games. We're now a third of the way through the season and things have regressed, if anything.
Initially I felt it was just a matter of time for these synergies to evolve. But now I'm firmly of the belief that too many of these players just aren't cut out for the brief. I can't see them ever building the kind of chemistry we need to maintain the level of consistency to thrive in the Champ. | | | |
| When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? on 10:25 - Dec 3 with 239 views | TRUE_BLUE123 |
"Are we happy to write the season off and go again next year with McKenna in the hope that it clicks in 26/27"
I think my answer would be yes. Unless we drift off and finish mid table, I would be sticking with McKenna 100% |  |
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| When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? on 10:30 - Dec 3 with 226 views | Blueschev |
| When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? on 10:23 - Dec 3 by portmanking |
Yeah, I felt the same for the first 10/12 games, hoping to see more patterns of play and signs of life in the subsequent 6-7 games. We're now a third of the way through the season and things have regressed, if anything.
Initially I felt it was just a matter of time for these synergies to evolve. But now I'm firmly of the belief that too many of these players just aren't cut out for the brief. I can't see them ever building the kind of chemistry we need to maintain the level of consistency to thrive in the Champ. |
I definitely think we need a more settled side. It's hard to create any cohesion when have the team changes every game. Somebody needs to come in and make that 10 slot their own, and we need a central midfield partnership to emerge. If that happens pre Christmas I think we'll be ok. | | | |
| When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? on 10:32 - Dec 3 with 217 views | itfcsuth |
I think everybody involved will be aware where we are is not the level we need to be at, and suspect there are constant conversations about how we get there.
But KMc remains untouchable at this stage.
As I noted elsewhere, we are where we were in 21/22, when we were building a Championship squad L1, we didn’t get that recruitment of the squad right instantly, players like Pigott, Fraser, Harper and Penney are examples.
We are one step ahead now, building a PL squad in the Championship, and we certainly haven’t got the recruitment of the squad correctly instantly this time around.
We are still sniffing around the play-offs, despite such sub standard performance levels, it’s not horrendous position to be in, but still so much work to do to get us to where we want. KMc, Ashton and co will be aware of this themselves. |  | | |
| When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? on 10:34 - Dec 3 with 209 views | brazil1982 |
I'm on the fence; I like KMc and want him to do well, but 11 wins from 56 is very poor by any standard. Do I think a change of coaching staff would help? Yes - BUT who is out there, and given our player recruitment has been mixed, I don't trust Ashton to make a good appointment. Give KMc to the end of this season.
I suspect if we are mid-table in January, the owners will be getting very itchy. I'd assume there is also a massive compensation package to take into consideration too. |  | | |
| When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? on 10:36 - Dec 3 with 200 views | TractorWood |
| When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? on 09:18 - Dec 3 by Marshalls_Mullet |
I cant help but think Ashtons dashboard is a very basic excel spreadsheet. |
Isn't he sprucing up the offices atm? |  |
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| When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? on 10:38 - Dec 3 with 187 views | BseaBlue |
| When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? on 10:34 - Dec 3 by brazil1982 |
I'm on the fence; I like KMc and want him to do well, but 11 wins from 56 is very poor by any standard. Do I think a change of coaching staff would help? Yes - BUT who is out there, and given our player recruitment has been mixed, I don't trust Ashton to make a good appointment. Give KMc to the end of this season.
I suspect if we are mid-table in January, the owners will be getting very itchy. I'd assume there is also a massive compensation package to take into consideration too. |
You don't trust Ashton to make a good appointment, yet he recruited the very same guy that got us a double promotion? | | | |
| When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? on 10:39 - Dec 3 with 181 views | itfcsuth |
| When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? on 10:25 - Dec 3 by TRUE_BLUE123 |
"Are we happy to write the season off and go again next year with McKenna in the hope that it clicks in 26/27"
I think my answer would be yes. Unless we drift off and finish mid table, I would be sticking with McKenna 100% |
Agree with this 100%.
As fustrating as this season has been so far, and as sub par as performances have been, and I will still vent frustration as we go with what I see in front of me, because that’s the emotion of been a football fan.
One thing I am adamant on and will double down on, KMc remains untouchable for me. [Post edited 3 Dec 10:39]
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| When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? on 10:39 - Dec 3 with 179 views | portmanking |
| When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? on 10:32 - Dec 3 by itfcsuth |
I think everybody involved will be aware where we are is not the level we need to be at, and suspect there are constant conversations about how we get there.
But KMc remains untouchable at this stage.
As I noted elsewhere, we are where we were in 21/22, when we were building a Championship squad L1, we didn’t get that recruitment of the squad right instantly, players like Pigott, Fraser, Harper and Penney are examples.
We are one step ahead now, building a PL squad in the Championship, and we certainly haven’t got the recruitment of the squad correctly instantly this time around.
We are still sniffing around the play-offs, despite such sub standard performance levels, it’s not horrendous position to be in, but still so much work to do to get us to where we want. KMc, Ashton and co will be aware of this themselves. |
Building a PL squad in the Championship??
This squad would be left red-faced week in, week out in the PL. There are even more issues/inadequacies now than there were in the summer of 2024 IMO.
We've learnt that physicality is basically 90% of PL success these days. Yet this squad is already blowing out of its collective backside. | | | |
| When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? on 10:40 - Dec 3 with 174 views | Ryorry |
| When *should* the difficult questions be asked then? on 09:51 - Dec 3 by SomethingBlue |
That was bad last night, not one good thing beyond a great moment for Sindre who will really kick on now. Weak, milky, careless, no aggression. And a few of the issues we showed are repeating themselves a little too much. But personal view is that a few are willing the crisis element on way too heavily when the overall position doesn't back it up. Maybe they need the drama, and I understand that in this day & age because it's the way people have been conditioned, but it's way too overwrought for me – things are fairly meh in this spell but we are within touching distance of the promotion places and should still be heavily backed to improve. Let's hope it is enough.
Definitely need a good December amid a tough run, I agree, but it's very hard to see things completely tanking. [Post edited 3 Dec 9:55]
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The way we are sometimes playing this season concerns me far more than our league position, because we are so inconsistent - in the ‘one word’ thread I described us as ‘seesawing’. There’s no continuity - which isn’t surprising given the policy of rotating the squad so heavily for almost every game.
Just don’t understand why the rotation policy is being adhered to when after 17 games it’s so obviously not been working. Why has a manager with a great history of successfully tweaking tactics, now anchoring himself rigidly to just one mode? (I don’t expect you to know the answer btw, rhetorical question born out of frustration!). |  |
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