Forum | There's likely to be some difficult (and likely) unpopular decisions in January by BeachBlue

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There's likely to be some difficult (and likely) unpopular decisions in January 08:44 - Dec 23 with 5336 views

It's just a feeling, but I think Sam Szmodics will go out on loan in January for the remainder of the season. No, I'm not thrilled about it, but I'm trying to be impartial. I wonder if Akpom will stay, not sure there.
A left back as cover for Davis looks likely.

And...I still have a sneaking suspicion we'll go after Josh Sargent from Naadge!

I see a big signing coming in as well.

Poll:

How many Ipswich shirts do you have and still wear?

-2

There's likely to be some difficult (and likely) unpopular decisions in January on 17:23 - Dec 23 with 813 views

MK1

West Ham apparently.

Poll:

New hobby suggestions for NeedhamChris.

There's likely to be some difficult (and likely) unpopular decisions in January on 06:41 - Dec 24 with 680 views

melbs_itfc

There's likely to be some difficult (and likely) unpopular decisions in January on 09:33 - Dec 23 by lurcher
I think it will be impossible to terminate Akpom.

It may well be unlikely but not impossible. Even the word says Im possible.

There's likely to be some difficult (and likely) unpopular decisions in January on 06:43 - Dec 24 with 680 views

melbs_itfc

Funny, I had a dream last night that Sammy would be going out on loan in January, which seemed strange and then read your post today. Perhaps there is something in it.

There's likely to be some difficult (and likely) unpopular decisions in January on 07:55 - Dec 24 with 624 views

Bluemike31

There's likely to be some difficult (and likely) unpopular decisions in January on 09:34 - Dec 23 by baxterbasics
Am I the only one who isn't keen on a move for Sargent? Yes it would be funny, and could really scupper their chances of survival, but he's gone right off the boil, and that might not just be down to lack of service behind him. Plus if it were to happen they would overcharge us up the wazoo.

Same here, wouldn't want Sargent anywhere near the place.

There's likely to be some difficult (and likely) unpopular decisions in January on 08:28 - Dec 24 with 588 views

Churchman

There's likely to be some difficult (and likely) unpopular decisions in January on 17:19 - Dec 23 by itfcsuth

We aren’t going to change that area mid season, especially as their numbers are good.

But if we received a sensible fee (anywhere near what we paid for them), at any point, last summer, January or this summer coming, I’d be taking the deal - I personally don’t think they are a good fit, they aren’t my sort of players, despite them being talented footballers, they imo are nowhere near PL level.

[Post edited 24 Dec 23:37]

So say the club take you on a chief recruitment wallah and you achieve your dream of shipping out Clarke and Philogene who are ‘not your sort of players’. Thats 15 goals in half a season in the bin from out wide. Their numbers are good because as somebody said to me Saturday, they’re too good for this league.

Who would you replace them with and what are ‘your sort of players’? I’m intrigued. Let’s have a few names.

Both are better players than when they came here and both can certainly play at Premier League level - in my view. Before you start waving around last season, Philogene only arrived 11 months ago and when Clarke played he was doing so without any midfield whatsoever. It was so poor he was having to pick up the ball in his own penalty area to go on a run and once or twice did.

There's likely to be some difficult (and likely) unpopular decisions in January on 11:16 - Dec 24 with 502 views

itfcsuth

There's likely to be some difficult (and likely) unpopular decisions in January on 08:28 - Dec 24 by Churchman

Far too inconsistent, decision making at times is horrendous, at times far too greedy, in the interest of themselves when better options are available, Leif Davis must hate playing with Philogene, amount of times he bombs forward to be ignored is vast.

They’re a long way from PL, talented boys but too inconsistent at Championship level, let alone PL. We saw Clarke last season, he was out of his depth, and Philogene was shipped out of Villa within 6 months, and looked out of his depth when he joined us - there’s just levels to football.

I don’t have an issue using them in the Championship, but you’d have to upgrade them in the PL, we want to build as much of a PL step up team as possible in the Championship - nothing groundbreaking about that.

[Post edited 24 Dec 23:49]

-1

There's likely to be some difficult (and likely) unpopular decisions in January on 11:29 - Dec 24 with 479 views

NthQldITFC

There's likely to be some difficult (and likely) unpopular decisions in January on 11:16 - Dec 24 by itfcsuth

[Post edited 24 Dec 23:49]

Are you a dyed-in-the-wool right winger, by any chance?

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There's likely to be some difficult (and likely) unpopular decisions in January on 11:38 - Dec 24 with 456 views

StokieBlue

There's likely to be some difficult (and likely) unpopular decisions in January on 11:16 - Dec 24 by itfcsuth

[Post edited 24 Dec 23:49]

Philogene barely played in the PL and has improved since then, especially with regards to work rate.

Given they cost about 20m and you don't think they are PL ready I have no idea who you think we could get for any sensible money in the Championship who would be PL ready. Hutch went for 40m and we simply can't spend that.

Can you give some examples?

SB

There's likely to be some difficult (and likely) unpopular decisions in January on 11:51 - Dec 24 with 447 views

BouncebackIpswich

There's likely to be some difficult (and likely) unpopular decisions in January on 11:16 - Dec 24 by itfcsuth

[Post edited 24 Dec 23:49]

I don't think either are PL quality, yet. However I think Philogene has really come on this season and is an increasingly rounded player. I do think if he continues on this trajectory he will be PL ready in the near future.

Jack Clarke though, I honestly think this is his ceiling. He is technically gifted and does some things incredibly well, I daresay to Prem level and he does read the game well. But he also has major weaknesses in his game that will always hold him back and make him blow hot and cold.

There's likely to be some difficult (and likely) unpopular decisions in January on 12:40 - Dec 24 with 415 views

itfcsuth

There's likely to be some difficult (and likely) unpopular decisions in January on 11:38 - Dec 24 by StokieBlue
Philogene barely played in the PL and has improved since then, especially with regards to work rate. Given they cost about 20m and you don't think they are PL ready I have no idea who you think we could get for any sensible money in the Championship who would be PL ready. Hutch went for 40m and we simply can't spend that. Can you give some examples? SB

Jaden did play, barely played is a massive overreach. I don’t think you can say he has improved as much as the standard is much worse.

It’s not about how much you spend, it’s about identifying the right quality and the right fit at the right price point - if we haven’t learnt that lesson by now, we are in real trouble.

[Post edited 24 Dec 23:39]

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There's likely to be some difficult (and likely) unpopular decisions in January on 12:45 - Dec 24 with 404 views

itfcsuth

There's likely to be some difficult (and likely) unpopular decisions in January on 11:51 - Dec 24 by BouncebackIpswich

Jaden has produced some incredible moments, but over the body of the season has equally been very inconsistent, even within individual games.

I also have doubts he can compete physically in the PL, not his work rate, he works hard, but his strength, his speed, his explosion - he’d struggle in the PL, as it looked with his outings last season.

[Post edited 24 Dec 23:39]

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There's likely to be some difficult (and likely) unpopular decisions in January on 13:20 - Dec 24 with 377 views

Churchman

There's likely to be some difficult (and likely) unpopular decisions in January on 12:40 - Dec 24 by itfcsuth
Jaden did play, barely played is a massive overreach. I don’t think you can say he has improved as much as the standard is much worse. It’s not about how much you spend, it’s about identifying the right quality and the right fit at the right price point - if we haven’t learnt that lesson by now, we are in real trouble. [Post edited 24 Dec 23:39]

Wiki says 10 appearances, 2 goals in the PL. much of that time he was carrying an injury. He was when he joined 22 at a new club playing for, I’ll repeat, a team with no midfield and no service. And you are happy to judge him on that? Clearly yes and you were not alone, given he was top of the haters league table.

Have you watched him up close? I have. You can say he has improved quite easily. Like Clarke he’s doing things he wasn’t when he first joined. He can play in the Premier League alright. I see him at a club at Forest’s level, maybe a Palace or a Brighton quite comfortably.

He and Clarke have scored 40% of the team’s goals this season and you are happy to get rid of that and them? Well it’s an opinion, but not mine.

As for identifying right quality, fit and price point, I have no idea what you mean by that. Who would you have recruited at what fit and price point? Who was out there at the time that met your criteria?

The club has tried to recruit a balance of potential, ready mades and experience. Successfully? No, not 100%, but given this is not some keyboard warrior’s computer game, it has to be accepted that some will work, some will not. It’s the same for every club unless they develop their own players which thanks to Evans is not an option yet.

There's likely to be some difficult (and likely) unpopular decisions in January on 13:44 - Dec 24 with 350 views

Smoresy

There's likely to be some difficult (and likely) unpopular decisions in January on 10:54 - Dec 23 by Guthrum

I really don't think it's possible to create a genuine Prem-ready squad in the Championship. The gap is just too big and it's not possible to attract that quality of player to the second tier, even if you could afford to (let alone staying within financial rules).

Sunderland hired in most of a new squad in the summer, spending £150m+. Of the players who made 15+ appearances in their promotion season, just four have made more than 10 in the Prem (Hume 15 starts + 2 sub, Isidor 11+6, Ballard 12+3, La Fee 14+2). Mayenda is on 3+5 (only starting early in the season), Rigg is on 4+3, four others have half a dozen sub appearances between them. Far more change than we made last season.

And Le Fee was a January loan + £20m on promotion, from Roma. Would be great if we could find a similar deal, someone from a top European league who hasn't quite convinced the PL establishment yet but is already operating above our level, and who sees us a realistic pathway to loads of PL exposure next season.

There's likely to be some difficult (and likely) unpopular decisions in January on 13:52 - Dec 24 with 343 views

StokieBlue

There's likely to be some difficult (and likely) unpopular decisions in January on 12:40 - Dec 24 by itfcsuth
Jaden did play, barely played is a massive overreach. I don’t think you can say he has improved as much as the standard is much worse. It’s not about how much you spend, it’s about identifying the right quality and the right fit at the right price point - if we haven’t learnt that lesson by now, we are in real trouble. [Post edited 24 Dec 23:39]

So you want to sell them but have no suggestions of these "PL ready players" we could obtain whilst in the championship.

It's not football manager.

SB

There's likely to be some difficult (and likely) unpopular decisions in January on 14:12 - Dec 24 with 324 views

football

There's likely to be some difficult (and likely) unpopular decisions in January on 11:16 - Dec 24 by itfcsuth

[Post edited 24 Dec 23:49]

Really? Have you not seen the significant improvement from last season in both players? Plus we have significant upgrades working alongside them which only improves. If these are not up to it, who do you think we get in?
And please never apply for a job in the club recruitment team

There's likely to be some difficult (and likely) unpopular decisions in January on 20:18 - Dec 24 with 232 views

itfcsuth

There's likely to be some difficult (and likely) unpopular decisions in January on 14:12 - Dec 24 by football
Really? Have you not seen the significant improvement from last season in both players? Plus we have significant upgrades working alongside them which only improves. If these are not up to it, who do you think we get in? And please never apply for a job in the club recruitment team

An improvement on last season, yes, but there has been a significant drop in standard of opposition. I haven’t seen anything different to what I’d have expected to see that makes me think they’ll suddenly be able to make the huge step up to the PL.

They are showing the same season/form they showed when they were at Hull and Sunderland respectively, and when we bought them to make the step up, they looked out of their depth.

There's likely to be some difficult (and likely) unpopular decisions in January on 20:43 - Dec 24 with 202 views

itfcsuth

There's likely to be some difficult (and likely) unpopular decisions in January on 13:52 - Dec 24 by StokieBlue
So you want to sell them but have no suggestions of these "PL ready players" we could obtain whilst in the championship. It's not football manager. SB

I think you’re misinterpreting/misreading what I’m saying, or just being ignorant.

I have no problem with them being in our squad in the Championship, they’re good Championship players.

If we received an offer anywhere near what we paid out for them then I’d take the deal, replace them with other players at a fraction of the price (look at Sorba Thomas deal), and then could even spend big when/if we get to the PL (if needed).

As you say this isn’t Football Manager, this is the real world, you can’t spend £20m to have good Championship players in the squad, if we could balance the books on them two at any point, it would be wise to do so.

[Post edited 24 Dec 23:54]

There's likely to be some difficult (and likely) unpopular decisions in January on 21:07 - Dec 24 with 178 views

ArnoldMoorhen

There's likely to be some difficult (and likely) unpopular decisions in January on 09:34 - Dec 23 by baxterbasics
Am I the only one who isn't keen on a move for Sargent? Yes it would be funny, and could really scupper their chances of survival, but he's gone right off the boil, and that might not just be down to lack of service behind him. Plus if it were to happen they would overcharge us up the wazoo.

If seven goals and three assists in 22 matches for a struggling team with managerial turmoil is him off the boil then we should definitely sign him. That's one in three which is the baseline for a good return for a striker.

There's likely to be some difficult (and likely) unpopular decisions in January on 21:11 - Dec 24 with 172 views

StokieBlue

There's likely to be some difficult (and likely) unpopular decisions in January on 20:43 - Dec 24 by itfcsuth

[Post edited 24 Dec 23:54]

That's different to what you said before.

You said sell them and replace them in the championship with PL ready players who I then asked you to suggest. Now it's sell them, replace with cheaper players and then replace again on promotion.

Totally different scenarios.

Pretty rude to call someone ignorant when you're shifting the goalposts to a different pitch.

Anyway, it's Christmas, have a good one.

SB

There's likely to be some difficult (and likely) unpopular decisions in January on 21:18 - Dec 24 with 166 views

Churchman

There's likely to be some difficult (and likely) unpopular decisions in January on 20:43 - Dec 24 by itfcsuth

[Post edited 24 Dec 23:54]

Using a word like ‘ignorant’ in respect of another poster is neither polite or nice. Nor in respect of that particular poster is it accurate. But it says an awful lot about you.

I take it this is a little wind up, not least because you rarely post anything after a win.

There's likely to be some difficult (and likely) unpopular decisions in January on 21:21 - Dec 24 with 161 views

Bigalhunter

There's likely to be some difficult (and likely) unpopular decisions in January on 20:43 - Dec 24 by itfcsuth

[Post edited 24 Dec 23:54]

Thing is, they could both be far better in the PL next season.

Young players can improve with experience.

You’re judging them on what they were able to bring to the table last season when they were far from the main reason we capitulated so alarmingly after Christmas.

Also have to take issue with the nonsense that we’d sell them, just to break even on our initial outlay.

I guess you’d have been applauding Mourinho when he shipped Salah and De Bruyne out of Chelsea because he didn’t think they’d improve?

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There's likely to be some difficult (and likely) unpopular decisions in January on 22:05 - Dec 24 with 127 views

itfcsuth

There's likely to be some difficult (and likely) unpopular decisions in January on 21:11 - Dec 24 by StokieBlue

I’ve said we should be looking to develop a ‘group’ towards to PL, but you aren’t going to build an entire squad that’s PL ready, but don’t want to have to go up and make 15 changes, you want to lay some of the groundwork in the Championship - Matusiwa is a great example of that.

Jaden & Jack Clarke are good Chmpionship players, there is no rush to move them (hence I didn’t put them in the list that are likely to be looked to moved on in January, yourself did), but IF somebody offered a return on the money at any point, anytime, I’d personally take the deal, because I personally do not think they are a long term solution as I think they are a long way off the PL level needed.

It’s really not a complicated statement to get your head around.

Have a great Christmas!

[Post edited 24 Dec 23:57]

There's likely to be some difficult (and likely) unpopular decisions in January on 22:08 - Dec 24 with 122 views

Nutkins_Return

Don't see Sammie going anywhere. Think he will be a regular starter when fit.

Clearly we will balance out our RB situation. Ben Johnson seems a tricky one to sort other than a loan with us covering a big chunk of wages.

Convinced CM will be the priority. And do feel we might have to look again at the right hand side. We all want a striker but it seems it might be very very difficult to get someone of the quality. Surridge would be About as good as we could hope for. Sargeant is impossible post the nunez fallout and Ashton's words after as well.

Poll:

Who do we think McKenna (not you) will partner Greaves with ?

There's likely to be some difficult (and likely) unpopular decisions in January on 22:12 - Dec 24 with 115 views

itfcsuth

There's likely to be some difficult (and likely) unpopular decisions in January on 21:21 - Dec 24 by Bigalhunter

We aren’t talking about Mo Salah and Kevin De Bruyne, we are talking about Jack Clarke and Jaden Philogene.

Do I think they will improve, probably.

Do I think they will reach the level we would need in the Premier League, probably not.

Have a great Christmas!

[Post edited 24 Dec 23:40]

There's likely to be some difficult (and likely) unpopular decisions in January on 22:37 - Dec 24 with 89 views

StokieBlue

There's likely to be some difficult (and likely) unpopular decisions in January on 22:05 - Dec 24 by itfcsuth

[Post edited 24 Dec 23:57]

"so if the opportunity came to move them on and replace them with a PL ready option I’d snap your hand off ".

That is the statement you made and that is what we were debating. It clearly states you would sell them and replace them with PL ready players if you could.

I also didn't put them in a list of players to move on in January, I asked you why you didn't because you'd previously stated you would like to move them on.

Anyway, the position is clear now so no worries and merry Christmas:).

SB

[Post edited 24 Dec 22:37]

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