| The reason to stop the boats on 20:09 - Jan 30 with 304 views | MattinLondon |
| The reason to stop the boats on 19:53 - Jan 30 by Swansea_Blue |
I’m surprised he’s not being kicked out, but then he’d not be facing any justice. The mum seemed happy he’s being locked up.
It’s a horrible case. |
It is indeed a horrible case and the OPs desire to stigmatise all asylum seekers might well be due to prejudices that they hold.
The lumping together of all minorities is appalling but unfortunately that’s what some people do.
I’ve tried searching for detailed statistics regarding murders (and other vile crimes) committed by asylum seekers but couldn’t find any figures. |  | |  |
| The reason to stop the boats on 20:11 - Jan 30 with 294 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| The reason to stop the boats on 20:02 - Jan 30 by chantryblueboy |
https://www.theguardian.com/uk
This article from the Guardian corrects the myth that Afghan nationals are 22 times more likely to be convicted of sex offences than British nationals. It’s actually only 14.5 times |
Well done for wrenching a quoted estimated statistic completely out of context from the article.
Have you got the data that shows asylum seekers generally (not one specific cherry-picked demographic from them) are statistically more likely to commit murder than equivalent UK residents? |  |
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| The reason to stop the boats on 20:13 - Jan 30 with 284 views | BlacknGoldnBlue |
| The reason to stop the boats on 20:09 - Jan 30 by MattinLondon |
It is indeed a horrible case and the OPs desire to stigmatise all asylum seekers might well be due to prejudices that they hold.
The lumping together of all minorities is appalling but unfortunately that’s what some people do.
I’ve tried searching for detailed statistics regarding murders (and other vile crimes) committed by asylum seekers but couldn’t find any figures. |
https://www.theguardian.com/uk |  |
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| The reason to stop the boats on 20:13 - Jan 30 with 283 views | bsw72 |
| The reason to stop the boats on 20:02 - Jan 30 by chantryblueboy |
https://www.theguardian.com/uk
This article from the Guardian corrects the myth that Afghan nationals are 22 times more likely to be convicted of sex offences than British nationals. It’s actually only 14.5 times |
Did you read the article and understand it?
Basically the article outlines that there is no reliable, official evidence that asylum seekers are significantly more likely to commit violent or sexual crimes in the UK. The idea that they are is often fueled by selective reporting and political rhetoric, not comprehensive statistical analysis.
To quote the article around the section you allude to, it was an estimate with a large number of caveats, but don’t let facts get in the way of your rhetoric:
“ The convictions data was from the years 2021-23 (capturing 77 sexual offences – not necessarily offenders – in that period committed by Afghan nationals) but the population data was from the 2021 census and the number of Afghans has increased greatly since, after the fall of Kabul to the Taliban in August 2021.
Madeleine Sumption, the director of the Migration Observatory, told BBC Radio 4’s More or Less programme that she estimated the rate to be 14.5 – not 22 – times higher for Afghan nationals. Her calculation came with caveats too because, unlike for the prison population data, there is no age breakdown.
That is still a very striking difference. But where there is a relatively small number of offences, a small change in the population – and we know population data is also unreliable and can be measured in different ways – can move the rate of offending significantly. As Brindle said: “Age is a really important factor when we look at the likelihood of criminality.”” |  | | |
| The reason to stop the boats on 20:15 - Jan 30 with 272 views | chantryblueboy |
| The reason to stop the boats on 20:11 - Jan 30 by Nthsuffolkblue |
Well done for wrenching a quoted estimated statistic completely out of context from the article.
Have you got the data that shows asylum seekers generally (not one specific cherry-picked demographic from them) are statistically more likely to commit murder than equivalent UK residents? |
The UK has a significant amount of asylum seekers from Afghanistan so I would say that is a good representation of the issue.
GlasgowBlue has already said that there is no data recorded on the immigration status of criminals, which is a shame as it would dispel people like me that believe in the ‘myths’ if they could be disproven |  | | |
| The reason to stop the boats on 20:18 - Jan 30 with 243 views | chantryblueboy |
| The reason to stop the boats on 20:13 - Jan 30 by bsw72 |
Did you read the article and understand it?
Basically the article outlines that there is no reliable, official evidence that asylum seekers are significantly more likely to commit violent or sexual crimes in the UK. The idea that they are is often fueled by selective reporting and political rhetoric, not comprehensive statistical analysis.
To quote the article around the section you allude to, it was an estimate with a large number of caveats, but don’t let facts get in the way of your rhetoric:
“ The convictions data was from the years 2021-23 (capturing 77 sexual offences – not necessarily offenders – in that period committed by Afghan nationals) but the population data was from the 2021 census and the number of Afghans has increased greatly since, after the fall of Kabul to the Taliban in August 2021.
Madeleine Sumption, the director of the Migration Observatory, told BBC Radio 4’s More or Less programme that she estimated the rate to be 14.5 – not 22 – times higher for Afghan nationals. Her calculation came with caveats too because, unlike for the prison population data, there is no age breakdown.
That is still a very striking difference. But where there is a relatively small number of offences, a small change in the population – and we know population data is also unreliable and can be measured in different ways – can move the rate of offending significantly. As Brindle said: “Age is a really important factor when we look at the likelihood of criminality.”” |
I did - one of the things I took from the article was that asylum seekers as a population commit more crime because they are disproportionately young men when compared to the rest of the population. I found this particularly odd as we are so often told that the people who seek asylum in this country are women and children fleeing persecution, so how can they be disproportionately young men to the extent that it has an effect this large on the crime statistics? | | | |
| The reason to stop the boats on 20:21 - Jan 30 with 223 views | Zx1988 |
| The reason to stop the boats on 20:09 - Jan 30 by Swansea_Blue |
It’s illuminating that this is making the on-the-hour news headlines on BBC radio stations, yet at least 2 other guilty convictions for murder today are not being mentioned:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/art
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/art (not even on the front page when I looked, despite it being a significant organised crime gang issue)
Deliberately or not, the supposedly impartial Beeb are contributing to the demonisation of asylum seekers. |
Careful.
I suggested on here a few months back that a certain case was only getting wall-to-wall coverage because of the immigration status of the individual, and was absolutely pilloried by certain sections of the board, who swore blind that a middle-aged white bloke would have got exactly the same treatment... [Post edited 30 Jan 20:22]
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| The reason to stop the boats on 20:22 - Jan 30 with 217 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| The reason to stop the boats on 20:15 - Jan 30 by chantryblueboy |
The UK has a significant amount of asylum seekers from Afghanistan so I would say that is a good representation of the issue.
GlasgowBlue has already said that there is no data recorded on the immigration status of criminals, which is a shame as it would dispel people like me that believe in the ‘myths’ if they could be disproven |
Your assertion simply shows how inaccurate the assumed statistic of 14.5% is, as explained above.
What proportion of asylum seekers in the UK are from Afghanistan?
More's the point, why do you think the statistic was quoted for Afghanistan and not Iran, China, or Ethiopia? | |
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| The reason to stop the boats on 20:22 - Jan 30 with 217 views | BlacknGoldnBlue |
| The reason to stop the boats on 20:18 - Jan 30 by chantryblueboy |
I did - one of the things I took from the article was that asylum seekers as a population commit more crime because they are disproportionately young men when compared to the rest of the population. I found this particularly odd as we are so often told that the people who seek asylum in this country are women and children fleeing persecution, so how can they be disproportionately young men to the extent that it has an effect this large on the crime statistics? |
Young men frequently constitute the majority of small boat Channel crossings (approx. 75% of arrivals) because they are often selected by families to undertake the dangerous, physically demanding journey first. This strategy allows them to seek asylum and later bring family members safely, as they are better equipped to navigate the risks. | |
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| The reason to stop the boats on 20:24 - Jan 30 with 198 views | redrickstuhaart |
| The reason to stop the boats on 20:18 - Jan 30 by chantryblueboy |
I did - one of the things I took from the article was that asylum seekers as a population commit more crime because they are disproportionately young men when compared to the rest of the population. I found this particularly odd as we are so often told that the people who seek asylum in this country are women and children fleeing persecution, so how can they be disproportionately young men to the extent that it has an effect this large on the crime statistics? |
You have made that up. People do not argue its all young women and children.
You will find that if you compare asylum seekers to equivalent demographic groups of people already here- you will be disappointed at the result and looking for a new argument.... | |
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| The reason to stop the boats on 20:26 - Jan 30 with 195 views | chantryblueboy |
| The reason to stop the boats on 20:22 - Jan 30 by Nthsuffolkblue |
Your assertion simply shows how inaccurate the assumed statistic of 14.5% is, as explained above.
What proportion of asylum seekers in the UK are from Afghanistan?
More's the point, why do you think the statistic was quoted for Afghanistan and not Iran, China, or Ethiopia? |
I’m not sure, but it is well documented (and referred to in the article that I linked) that we have taken in significant numbers in the last few years (which I am aware was a Tory mishap, and I am aware that Reform is now the Tories, before that is pointed out to me again) | | | |
| The reason to stop the boats on 20:27 - Jan 30 with 188 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| The reason to stop the boats on 20:18 - Jan 30 by chantryblueboy |
I did - one of the things I took from the article was that asylum seekers as a population commit more crime because they are disproportionately young men when compared to the rest of the population. I found this particularly odd as we are so often told that the people who seek asylum in this country are women and children fleeing persecution, so how can they be disproportionately young men to the extent that it has an effect this large on the crime statistics? |
Can you point us to one of the "so often told that the people who seek asylum in this country are women and children"? | |
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| The reason to stop the boats on 20:30 - Jan 30 with 179 views | bsw72 |
| The reason to stop the boats on 20:18 - Jan 30 by chantryblueboy |
I did - one of the things I took from the article was that asylum seekers as a population commit more crime because they are disproportionately young men when compared to the rest of the population. I found this particularly odd as we are so often told that the people who seek asylum in this country are women and children fleeing persecution, so how can they be disproportionately young men to the extent that it has an effect this large on the crime statistics? |
Thank you for confirming you missed the point of the article.
It isn’t arguing that asylum seekers “commit more crime”. It’s explaining why crude comparisons look misleading if you don’t account for demographics. Those are very different things. It makes no reference to the split of young male asylum seekers vs female, older male or children.
“Asylum seekers” as a legal category includes entire families, women and children, but the people most visible in statistics or the criminal justice system are often single adult men, because young men are the group most likely to be arrested or convicted in any population. That doesn’t mean the asylum-seeking population is mostly young men overall it means the subset interacting with the justice system is demographically skewed, just like it is for UK-born offenders.
That same effect exists domestically. Young men make up a small slice of the UK population but account for a large share of offending. No one concludes from that that “men are inherently criminal”, we recognise age, sex and social factors as drivers.
The Guardian piece is making exactly that point: if you take a small, male-heavy subgroup, ignore age and exposure time, and then compare it to the entire UK population (including children, pensioners and women), you’ll manufacture a difference that looks meaningful but isn’t.
So the takeaway isn’t “asylum seekers commit more crime”. It’s that without proper standardisation, the statistics tell you more about who gets counted than who is actually more dangerous. [Post edited 30 Jan 20:33]
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| The reason to stop the boats on 20:52 - Jan 30 with 141 views | eireblue |
| The reason to stop the boats on 20:26 - Jan 30 by chantryblueboy |
I’m not sure, but it is well documented (and referred to in the article that I linked) that we have taken in significant numbers in the last few years (which I am aware was a Tory mishap, and I am aware that Reform is now the Tories, before that is pointed out to me again) |
Be funny if accurate data suggested asylum seekers were less violent, and committed fewer crimes.
Presumably, you would want more, not fewer, then. |  | | |
| The reason to stop the boats on 20:54 - Jan 30 with 142 views | MattinLondon |
| The reason to stop the boats on 20:21 - Jan 30 by Zx1988 |
Careful.
I suggested on here a few months back that a certain case was only getting wall-to-wall coverage because of the immigration status of the individual, and was absolutely pilloried by certain sections of the board, who swore blind that a middle-aged white bloke would have got exactly the same treatment... [Post edited 30 Jan 20:22]
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There’s another thread on here regarding a white fella who blew up a camera - if he had been brown he would quickly have been labelled a terrorist…but white blokes. | | | |
| The reason to stop the boats on 21:01 - Jan 30 with 117 views | Swansea_Blue |
"There may have been a rash of crimes committed by asylum seekers reported in the media recently, but that does not necessarily mean that they are increasing; there may simply be more coverage."
Quite. As per the two I linked above, which are receiving less coverage. Through a quick search of "convicted of murder" I've also found another 4 cases resolved in the last 24 hours, listed in more obscure places such as police statements or local press. None of these obviously made national headlines. None involved asylum seekers.
News is newsworthy when it's for example extremely novel, timely or topical (amongst other things). Asylum seeker attacks come under the topical characterisation, which reinforces the negative rhetoric, which makes them more topical. Which reinforces the false, negative stereotypes being played on by the likes of Reform and SYL. Rinse and repeat.
Not that I'm defending murder. Any attacks or killings are obviously bad. |  |
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| The reason to stop the boats on 21:07 - Jan 30 with 103 views | JackNorthStand |
| The reason to stop the boats on 19:26 - Jan 30 by StokieBlue |
This is clearly a truly awful case.
But it's not right to tar all asylum seekers with the same brush.
SB [Post edited 30 Jan 19:26]
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Of course not, but this is not an isolated event a serious problem we all must recognise. | | | |
| The reason to stop the boats on 21:10 - Jan 30 with 90 views | Swansea_Blue |
| The reason to stop the boats on 20:21 - Jan 30 by Zx1988 |
Careful.
I suggested on here a few months back that a certain case was only getting wall-to-wall coverage because of the immigration status of the individual, and was absolutely pilloried by certain sections of the board, who swore blind that a middle-aged white bloke would have got exactly the same treatment... [Post edited 30 Jan 20:22]
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I'm not sure whether the police/news now releasing details of suspects ethnicity, nationality is a good thing or not. In theory it's to stop racist wangers spreading rumours that an event is perpetrated by [insert minority group of choice here]. On the other hand it suggests that ethnicity or nationality is an important and even defining characteristic of certain offender types. Which is clearly rubbish. Some people are just c***s. | |
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| The reason to stop the boats on 21:10 - Jan 30 with 88 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| The reason to stop the boats on 21:07 - Jan 30 by JackNorthStand |
Of course not, but this is not an isolated event a serious problem we all must recognise. |
Please do present the data to back up your assertion.
Or read the thread to see why that data does not exist and how the media's focus on specific cases distorts the impression people get. | |
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| The reason to stop the boats on 21:10 - Jan 30 with 84 views | redrickstuhaart |
| The reason to stop the boats on 21:07 - Jan 30 by JackNorthStand |
Of course not, but this is not an isolated event a serious problem we all must recognise. |
Actually, statistically, it is. | |
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| The reason to stop the boats on 21:13 - Jan 30 with 74 views | JackNorthStand |
I’ve just read that this guy came on a boat from France - Therefor he wasn’t an asylum seeker at all, he was an illegal immigrant and in the report from the court case it is reported that he lied about his age upon arrival and arrest. He should not of been in our country full stop and this is exactly why we should not be offering incentives to anyone to enter our country illegally on a boat from France. [Post edited 30 Jan 21:14]
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| The reason to stop the boats on 21:16 - Jan 30 with 61 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| The reason to stop the boats on 21:13 - Jan 30 by JackNorthStand |
I’ve just read that this guy came on a boat from France - Therefor he wasn’t an asylum seeker at all, he was an illegal immigrant and in the report from the court case it is reported that he lied about his age upon arrival and arrest. He should not of been in our country full stop and this is exactly why we should not be offering incentives to anyone to enter our country illegally on a boat from France. [Post edited 30 Jan 21:14]
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As a matter of interest, can you tell me how asylum seekers come to the UK?
Can you also tell me what the best way to prevent anyone arriving on a boat from France without the correct documentation is? | |
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| The reason to stop the boats on 21:24 - Jan 30 with 42 views | JackNorthStand |
| The reason to stop the boats on 21:16 - Jan 30 by Nthsuffolkblue |
As a matter of interest, can you tell me how asylum seekers come to the UK?
Can you also tell me what the best way to prevent anyone arriving on a boat from France without the correct documentation is? |
Yes sure.
So the person in the post who committed this awful murder arrived on a small boat from France. So I am referring to specifically asylum seekers who arrive this way.
I think stopping this comes down to the system which the UK have in place. It is far more appealing than claiming asylum in France ( for the purpose of keeping this post short I won’t go into it but you can look it up ).
If the UK can make changes then the risk of crossing the channel on a small boat would outweigh the reward.
What are your thoughts, out of interest? | | | |
| The reason to stop the boats on 21:24 - Jan 30 with 38 views | gtsb1966 |
| The reason to stop the boats on 19:26 - Jan 30 by StokieBlue |
This is clearly a truly awful case.
But it's not right to tar all asylum seekers with the same brush.
SB [Post edited 30 Jan 19:26]
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True but...if all the people who came over by boat were detained and not allowed on the streets until their claim had been processed there would be uproar amongst certain liberty groups. |  | | |
| The reason to stop the boats on 21:27 - Jan 30 with 33 views | gtsb1966 |
| The reason to stop the boats on 19:33 - Jan 30 by BlacknGoldnBlue |
What is the acceptable number of murders by a white English man before it becomes a problem in your eyes? |
Thats not the argument is it . | | | |
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