| Gorton and Denton By-election 19:20 - Feb 15 with 5520 views | gtsb1966 |
Greens odds on to win with Reform 2nd and Labour 3rd. Surely that would be the end of Starmer if that happened. One can only hope. I cant see some members of the party waiting for the annihilation in the May elections.
https://www.oddschecker.com/po |  | | |  |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 21:44 - Feb 15 with 827 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 21:38 - Feb 15 by vapour_trail |
He looks really unwell there. |
Well, she has a certain talent
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| Gorton and Denton By-election on 21:52 - Feb 15 with 802 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 21:21 - Feb 15 by jasondozzell |
I'm not in government. He's undermining himself.
Does Starmer have respect for rule of law? Have you read about what's going on with the civil service?
The refusal by the centre to own this is breathtaking. |
Yes- stop the innuendo. You are helping Farage. |  |
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| Gorton and Denton By-election on 21:53 - Feb 15 with 807 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 20:01 - Feb 15 by Mullet |
Not at all.
Labour missed a trick not letting Burnham stand. They essentially have given the seat to the greens or reform who have mobilised half the Kremlin to back that scumbag Goodwin.
It’s a weird seat too. Half urban and very poor, crime ridden and traditionally and immigrant area. Half semi rural poor and the remnants of slum clearances with loads of social deprivation.
Reform are stoking racial tensions and recruiting Britain first to try and win by any means. |
This is the Reform candidate. Beyond parody, but yes still questionable puppeteers
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| Gorton and Denton By-election on 21:57 - Feb 15 with 776 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 21:44 - Feb 15 by ElderGrizzly |
Well, she has a certain talent
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Is that first photo a promo for a new pub they are opening? The Slug & Lettuce? [Post edited 15 Feb 21:57]
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| Gorton and Denton By-election on 22:05 - Feb 15 with 756 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 21:40 - Feb 15 by jasondozzell |
I don't think you can say that Starmer and the Labour right have cut through to the electorate on any metric. Perhaps only in that they might be the most despised government of recent times which hot on the heels of the Tories is some achievement...
Cameron, Boris, Truss etc. did all have political projects. They may have been ones many disagreed with but there was some political direction.
Starmer's Labour are utterly without any direction because there was never a political project beyond purging the left and recapturing money and power and the party.
What is Starmerism? |
They’ve won power, and that’s a relative rare thing for Labour. There’s obviously a case for saying the Tories lost power, but we’ll never know if a more left leaning leader could have also won. All you can do is judge their success on what actually happened.
I don’t disagree about the lack of vision. There’s nothing there and I think the people who are hoping McSweeney’s departure will lead to Labour becoming more socialist are going to be massively disappointed. Starmer and his cabinet have shown us exactly who they are.
I disagree that this is a worst government than the Tories though. This government is a product of the Tories. The damage was done by the Tories who shifted the paradigms on our relation with the EU, immigration and austerity. Labour are continuing some of that purely because of that lack of vision and they think this is what people are prepared to accept.
I’m massively disappointed in them and it feels like a wasted opportunity, so I’ve a lot in common with your view of him. I think I’m coming from a different place than you though. But that’s Starmer’s exact problem. He can’t please anyone. He’s pissing off people like me (probably more liberal than left, but just want competent government), he’s pissing off the left and he’s pissing off the right. |  |
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| Gorton and Denton By-election on 22:28 - Feb 15 with 705 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 21:33 - Feb 15 by ElderGrizzly |
Liz Truss’s latest
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Very contrite.
Perfectly matched to each other.
Let's hope our electorate are not daft enough to repeat what happened when the Tory voters selected her for PM. |  |
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| Gorton and Denton By-election on 22:34 - Feb 15 with 700 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 20:42 - Feb 15 by jasondozzell |
Major is a political colossus compared to Starmer who must be the worst PM. Even Boris had some political acumen and some political principles.
Competent managerialism a disaster anyway but he couldn't even manage that! |
I don’t particularly rate starmer (nor do I hate him like some weirdos seem to) but suggesting Boris was better is frankly laughable |  |
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| Gorton and Denton By-election on 22:34 - Feb 15 with 699 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 21:44 - Feb 15 by ElderGrizzly |
Well, she has a certain talent
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The late Queen looks a lot healthier in that photo than Trump does in the one above it.
Then again Truss looks less demented too but that may well be because she has her back to the camera. | |
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| Gorton and Denton By-election on 22:42 - Feb 15 with 689 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 21:03 - Feb 15 by jasondozzell |
I think that view is going to be challenged quite hard by what they are about to deliver. |
Hold up. Let’s not just ignore that statement for a second.
How is Starmer worse than Truss, Cameron or Boris?
Let’s take a look at the low-lights for all four shall we:
- Truss - Attenpted to ruin the economy. Gave it a really good go in what was some of the maddest sh*t politics has seen numerically since Abbott was asked about the police. Madness.
- Cameron - Called on Brexit for some form of ego-boost then f**ked off with his tail between his legs to do after-dinner speeches rather than have any competent plan for the mess he’d created.
- Boris - Refused to go to any Covid meeting in the early days and then was literally seen at numerous events flaunting the very rules he preached. Not only illegal, which in itself for a PM should be game, set and match, but an absolute kick in the balls for any decent person.
- Starmer - Naively and stupidly appointed someone who, with the benefit of hindsight, was far deeper in than even his biggest enemy would’ve known or dared accuse him off. Oh and he doesn’t stand up to trump. Something every PM before him also failed to do, some even going as far as being extra-pally with him at every opportunity.
Starmer is many things but suggesting he’s worse as a PM than those three wronguns is hilarious. | |
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| Gorton and Denton By-election on 22:52 - Feb 15 with 670 views | LeoMuff |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 19:42 - Feb 15 by redrickstuhaart |
There is literally no one worth replacing him with.
Keep undermining him folks, and we will be getting Uncle Nige. |
Think we would get Nige for sure if Starmer stays in, he has been shown to have very poor judgement and leadership, a lot of situations have arisen that should never have been allowed to happen or escalate.
He is toxic now I think, the chance was missed with Burnham as I can’t see anyone else who would win an election for Labour. |  |
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| Gorton and Denton By-election on 22:57 - Feb 15 with 653 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 21:44 - Feb 15 by ElderGrizzly |
Well, she has a certain talent
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I’m sure we’ve all got our fingers crossed | |
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| Gorton and Denton By-election on 23:06 - Feb 15 with 633 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 22:57 - Feb 15 by Swansea_Blue |
I’m sure we’ve all got our fingers crossed |
Would Vance be an improvement then? | |
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| Gorton and Denton By-election on 23:25 - Feb 15 with 615 views | BlueBadger |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 20:42 - Feb 15 by jasondozzell |
Major is a political colossus compared to Starmer who must be the worst PM. Even Boris had some political acumen and some political principles.
Competent managerialism a disaster anyway but he couldn't even manage that! |
'Incompetent racist criminal Boris was better' is quite the take, mate. [Post edited 15 Feb 23:34]
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| Gorton and Denton By-election on 23:50 - Feb 15 with 592 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 23:25 - Feb 15 by BlueBadger |
'Incompetent racist criminal Boris was better' is quite the take, mate. [Post edited 15 Feb 23:34]
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Indeed. Boris had no principles at all. He was breaking down norms and conventions in the same way as Trump. | |
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| Gorton and Denton By-election on 08:19 - Feb 16 with 493 views | DJR |
It seems to me that one's views on the decency or integrity of Starmer may well depend on whether one voted for him in the leadership election on the basis of a pitch and pledges that he went back on.
Margaret Hodge was interviewed by the FT during the leadership campaign and said this of Starmer. "He's triangulating like mad. Somebody said to me, I don't mind what he does so long as he wins, he beats Rebecca Long-Bailey. And I thought Tony [Blair] never did that. Tony was completely straight, completely honest. So is Keir lying to get the job? And will he then change? That's what this person was saying to me as way of promoting Keir."
And, for example, his explanation to Andrew Marr for the decision to drop the following pledge was very slippery.
"Public services should be in public hands, not making profits for shareholders. Support common ownership. Support common ownership of rail, mail, energy and water."
"I don't see nationalisation there.", said Starmer. When asked by Marr what he meant by common ownership if not nationalisation, Starmer did not explain but deflected with a non-sequitur about pragmatism versus ideological purity.
And of course pragmatism or centrism is one way of doing politics, but if that is your approach, you don't make pledges like the one above if you are being honest.
[Post edited 16 Feb 8:43]
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| Gorton and Denton By-election on 08:36 - Feb 16 with 470 views | DJR |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 19:41 - Feb 15 by ITFC_Forever |
I like Starmer and he’s a decent man.
But he’s been undermined by his / the party’s determination to try and appeal to people too far to the right for them ever realistically vote for him.
He’s also been badly advised / badly let down by the appointment of Mandelson and how that’s subsequently played out.
And he’ll not recover from the decision not to allow Burnham to stand in G&D. It’s sent a message of paranoia out, that has weakened his position.
Kier’s not going to last much longer, it seems to be a case of when not if he goes… whether that’s days, weeks or months, he won’t be here (relatively speaking) in the long term.
Burnham is Labour’s best hope… they need to find a way to get him in and stop the in-fighting, or the despicable likes of Farage, Tice & Co will continue to eat away at society. |
Who'd have thought that one of Stamer's pledges to get elected as leader was the following?
6. Defend migrants’ rights
Full voting rights for EU nationals. Defend free movement as we leave the EU. An immigration system based on compassion and dignity. End indefinite detention and call for the closure of centres such as Yarl’s Wood. [Post edited 16 Feb 8:37]
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| Gorton and Denton By-election on 08:43 - Feb 16 with 455 views | jasondozzell |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 23:25 - Feb 15 by BlueBadger |
'Incompetent racist criminal Boris was better' is quite the take, mate. [Post edited 15 Feb 23:34]
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Starmer is significantly more dishonest than Johnson. It's as simple as that.
Johnson went because the press became embarrassed by him after orchestrating a concerted campaign to get him in. He went over cake which was chosen because it allowed them to direct all the ire towards Johnson individually whilst leaving the Tory party alone in order to allow it to limp on. Starmer amongst many things is going because you had an individual at the very centre of government leaking market sensitive information to Epstein and acting as a lobbyist for him and the international banking sector during a worldwide financial crisis putting the UK at risk. Do you realise how serious that is?
And the 'poor Starmer was simply a bit naive to appoint Mandelson' line simply reveals the naivety of anyone using it. It's exceptionally important that people realise that Mandelson appointed Starmer, not the other way around! [Post edited 16 Feb 8:44]
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| Gorton and Denton By-election on 08:58 - Feb 16 with 430 views | iamatractorboy |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 21:57 - Feb 15 by GlasgowBlue |
Is that first photo a promo for a new pub they are opening? The Slug & Lettuce? [Post edited 15 Feb 21:57]
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| Gorton and Denton By-election on 09:05 - Feb 16 with 420 views | Wright1 |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 20:42 - Feb 15 by jasondozzell |
Major is a political colossus compared to Starmer who must be the worst PM. Even Boris had some political acumen and some political principles.
Competent managerialism a disaster anyway but he couldn't even manage that! |
I seriously worry about the future of this country. We've just lived through that rogue gallery of incompetent swindlers that the Tory party put forward and you think Starmer might be the worst PM?! Wow, just wow. | | | |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 09:11 - Feb 16 with 408 views | jasondozzell |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 09:05 - Feb 16 by Wright1 |
I seriously worry about the future of this country. We've just lived through that rogue gallery of incompetent swindlers that the Tory party put forward and you think Starmer might be the worst PM?! Wow, just wow. |
But Starmer is an 'incompetent swindler'. The biggest of the lot!
He's by some way the least democratic PM in this country's history.
It's very easy to parrot the James O'Brien 'the Tories were a disgrace, Starmer is at least a competent hand on the tiller' line. But it's lazy analysis.
Of course the Tories were a disgrace but if you scratch the surface of this Labour government you will find it is even more institutionally corrupt! These aren't the good guys. | | | |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 09:17 - Feb 16 with 388 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 09:11 - Feb 16 by jasondozzell |
But Starmer is an 'incompetent swindler'. The biggest of the lot!
He's by some way the least democratic PM in this country's history.
It's very easy to parrot the James O'Brien 'the Tories were a disgrace, Starmer is at least a competent hand on the tiller' line. But it's lazy analysis.
Of course the Tories were a disgrace but if you scratch the surface of this Labour government you will find it is even more institutionally corrupt! These aren't the good guys. |
How is he the least democratic? He was literally elected on a landside.
And please list reasoning for the most institutionally corrupt. We have just lived through the Johnson years... [Post edited 16 Feb 9:31]
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| Gorton and Denton By-election on 09:29 - Feb 16 with 337 views | jasondozzell |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 09:17 - Feb 16 by ElderGrizzly |
How is he the least democratic? He was literally elected on a landside.
And please list reasoning for the most institutionally corrupt. We have just lived through the Johnson years... [Post edited 16 Feb 9:31]
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Please read about:
Labour Together
Labour Together funding
Labour Together secret meetings with the press in 2018
The Forde report
Starmer's leadership bid pledges
Mandelson's involvement in selection of MPs
The anti democratic selection of candidates. Michael Crick is very good on this
Change to NEC elections
The treatment of Long Bailey etc. and figures on the left
Starmer failing to follow own independent procedure over Corbyn, recently claiming 'I threw him out' which directly contravenes the party's own process!
Labour Together funding spying on British journalists with smears being passed to GCHQ
Mandelson appointment and defence
This barely touches it to be honest. | | | |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 09:41 - Feb 16 with 302 views | Wright1 |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 09:11 - Feb 16 by jasondozzell |
But Starmer is an 'incompetent swindler'. The biggest of the lot!
He's by some way the least democratic PM in this country's history.
It's very easy to parrot the James O'Brien 'the Tories were a disgrace, Starmer is at least a competent hand on the tiller' line. But it's lazy analysis.
Of course the Tories were a disgrace but if you scratch the surface of this Labour government you will find it is even more institutionally corrupt! These aren't the good guys. |
I'm sorry I just don't agree. Starmer and this Labour party is far from everything I want - but it is a step back in the right direction from where we were under the last Tory Government (and where we will be headed again if Reform gain power). | | | |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 09:48 - Feb 16 with 284 views | jasondozzell |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 09:41 - Feb 16 by Wright1 |
I'm sorry I just don't agree. Starmer and this Labour party is far from everything I want - but it is a step back in the right direction from where we were under the last Tory Government (and where we will be headed again if Reform gain power). |
In what way is it a step back in the right direction?
We're getting Reform precisely because of this government! | | | |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 09:55 - Feb 16 with 249 views | DJR |
| Gorton and Denton By-election on 09:17 - Feb 16 by ElderGrizzly |
How is he the least democratic? He was literally elected on a landside.
And please list reasoning for the most institutionally corrupt. We have just lived through the Johnson years... [Post edited 16 Feb 9:31]
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https://theconversation.com/lo
A major weakness is in the fairness of the electoral rules for small parties. The electoral system generated a very disproportional result in 2024. Labour took nearly two-thirds of the seats in parliament, a total of 412, with less than 10 million votes (only 34% of votes cast). Labour won a massive majority in terms of parliamentary arithmetic but the the government did not enter office with widespread support.
By contrast, Reform and the Greens received 6 million votes between them, but only nine MPs. The electoral system may have worked when Britain had a two-party system – but the two-party system no longer holds. Today’s Britain is more diverse, and political support is more distributed.
The UK also scores poorly on voter registration. It is estimated that there are around 7 million to 8 million people not correctly registered or missing from the registers entirely. This is not many less than the 9.7 million people whose votes gave the government a landslide majority. The UK does not have a system of automatic voter registration, which is present in global leaders such as Iceland, where everyone is enrolled without a hiccup.
Another problem is participation. Turnout in July 2024 was low – with only half of adults voting, the lowest share of the adult population since universal suffrage. Voting has been made more difficult as the Elections Act of 2022 introduced compulsory photographic identification for the first time at the general election. This was thought to have made it more difficult for many citizens to vote because the UK does not have a national identity card which all citizens hold. [Post edited 16 Feb 9:58]
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