| When this is done and dusted 14:16 - Mar 30 with 5433 views | bluelagos |
One thing that is glaringly obvious to me is that there isn't a proper independent supporters voice.
The official supporters club response was a statement of nothingness.
Blue Action. Could they evolve into being more out spoken? (My preference but are they even open to non A Block members?)
Matt Holland - he would never realistically fill this role.
The press - so dependent on access to the club that they seem reluctant to press the club hard.
The various supporter podcast things - think like the press they are scared of being properly critical.
Maybe there is a space for a truly independent supporters voice? Cos to be honest, I've felt we don't currently hear one from any of the above.
Lots of teams have truly independent supporters clubs, not convinced we do...
Thoughts?
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| When this is done and dusted on 15:11 - Mar 30 with 843 views | bluelagos |
| When this is done and dusted on 15:07 - Mar 30 by Smoresy |
I'm unsure how greatly this differs from your average example, re supporters' clubs. If they were (or are) truly independent, may we confidently think they'd be holding feet to the fire today on what's a divisive issue? Whose views would they disregard and how? Or would they instead reflect a swathe of views and in doing so fudge decisive action?
My opinion on events closely mirrors yours, with the exception that I'll continue to attend PR (with conscience clear on that, personally), but it would need to be a very small supporters' club to find broad agreement. Then to Hype's point, it would very much be a dissenting voice from the sidelines I'd imagine, rather than one with clear authority and club recognition. |
That would be what I think we need. A voice willing to dissent - not looking for special access -that's the last thing I see.
A voice of the fans - that effectively doesn't give a fck what the club's view is - it speaks for the fans of a certain view - primarily legacy fans at that.
Not a replacement of anyone - a new actual fan voice on issues like pricing / safe standing / policing / travel / match times etc. | |
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| When this is done and dusted on 15:19 - Mar 30 with 822 views | J2BLUE |
We really shouldn't need a voice for political issues.
It's only the utter stupidity of a small number of people at the club who have caused this.
Personally I would like a guarantee of the club being politically neutral with only Suffolk MPs and/or relevant ministers of state being welcomed to the club and in an official capacity only. |  |
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| When this is done and dusted on 15:24 - Mar 30 with 798 views | bluelagos |
| When this is done and dusted on 15:19 - Mar 30 by J2BLUE |
We really shouldn't need a voice for political issues.
It's only the utter stupidity of a small number of people at the club who have caused this.
Personally I would like a guarantee of the club being politically neutral with only Suffolk MPs and/or relevant ministers of state being welcomed to the club and in an official capacity only. |
Not sure where you get politics from...
A voice that is for the fans is what I think we need and what I don't see. A voice willing to say what needs saying - without worrying about access to the club or upsetting the CEO | |
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| When this is done and dusted on 15:24 - Mar 30 with 796 views | Zx1988 |
| When this is done and dusted on 15:19 - Mar 30 by J2BLUE |
We really shouldn't need a voice for political issues.
It's only the utter stupidity of a small number of people at the club who have caused this.
Personally I would like a guarantee of the club being politically neutral with only Suffolk MPs and/or relevant ministers of state being welcomed to the club and in an official capacity only. |
I think it goes above and beyond the political (even though it would appear that most peoples' issue with the current situation is the lying/gaslighting).
The official supporters' club is about as useful as a marzipan dildo when it comes to providing any support for the supporters when it comes to actions of the club, whether that's the allocation of 400 tickets to friends/family/Fabio Wardley the last time out at Norwich, or the way in which the pre-PL changes were forced through with an attitude of 'tough' from the club. |  |
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| When this is done and dusted on 15:27 - Mar 30 with 785 views | vapour_trail |
Really interesting thread.
It appears to me that we lack the independent voice you’re talking about, BL.
But I’m not sure any truly inclusive body of fans would have been well placed to intervene over the past week given the divergence of opinion amongst the fanbase. I think there’s a place for something other than what’s there now to speak for issues that are across that whole fanbase though. |  |
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| When this is done and dusted on 15:29 - Mar 30 with 762 views | J2BLUE |
| When this is done and dusted on 15:24 - Mar 30 by bluelagos |
Not sure where you get politics from...
A voice that is for the fans is what I think we need and what I don't see. A voice willing to say what needs saying - without worrying about access to the club or upsetting the CEO |
I just meant this is a unique (hopefully) situation. Generally the club hasn't done a massive amount wrong before this.
You also said to represent fans who have a certain view. Not entirely sure what that means although I can probably guess so we would end up with multiple groups pushing different agendas.
Frankly there are only about 5 people on here I would be happy to have representing my opinion.
The voice of the fans should be the official supporter's club. Their statement was utterly pointless and if they can't or won't represent 100% of the fan base they should vacate their positions for people who will. | |
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| When this is done and dusted on 15:32 - Mar 30 with 753 views | Zx1988 |
| When this is done and dusted on 15:29 - Mar 30 by J2BLUE |
I just meant this is a unique (hopefully) situation. Generally the club hasn't done a massive amount wrong before this.
You also said to represent fans who have a certain view. Not entirely sure what that means although I can probably guess so we would end up with multiple groups pushing different agendas.
Frankly there are only about 5 people on here I would be happy to have representing my opinion.
The voice of the fans should be the official supporter's club. Their statement was utterly pointless and if they can't or won't represent 100% of the fan base they should vacate their positions for people who will. |
I agree with you regarding their role, and the need for change if they can't/won't represent the fans. Is it not, now, baked in with the Official Supporters' Club though?
I seem to recall that they went through a change of leadership recently, and they're still just as 'club-friendly' as before.
Plus ca change, and all that.
Does the gig come with certain privileges or accesses that would cause the leadership to, essentially, find themselves in hock to the club? [Post edited 30 Mar 15:32]
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| When this is done and dusted on 15:34 - Mar 30 with 741 views | J2BLUE |
| When this is done and dusted on 15:32 - Mar 30 by Zx1988 |
I agree with you regarding their role, and the need for change if they can't/won't represent the fans. Is it not, now, baked in with the Official Supporters' Club though?
I seem to recall that they went through a change of leadership recently, and they're still just as 'club-friendly' as before.
Plus ca change, and all that.
Does the gig come with certain privileges or accesses that would cause the leadership to, essentially, find themselves in hock to the club? [Post edited 30 Mar 15:32]
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I don't know.
There are some people with strong moral who I don't think would allow themselves to be bought or influenced.
BL is one of them, although he's a filthy leftie. | |
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| When this is done and dusted on 15:34 - Mar 30 with 740 views | bluelagos |
| When this is done and dusted on 15:29 - Mar 30 by J2BLUE |
I just meant this is a unique (hopefully) situation. Generally the club hasn't done a massive amount wrong before this.
You also said to represent fans who have a certain view. Not entirely sure what that means although I can probably guess so we would end up with multiple groups pushing different agendas.
Frankly there are only about 5 people on here I would be happy to have representing my opinion.
The voice of the fans should be the official supporter's club. Their statement was utterly pointless and if they can't or won't represent 100% of the fan base they should vacate their positions for people who will. |
Cheers for clarifying.
Think my point - is that a supporters club - that is expected to be the voice across the support - it's an impossible job.
Take for example the tourist model - some of the supporters think it's great (as it generates more money) - some think it's rubbish as it destroys the atmosphere on a matchday.
So I would love to see a "legacy" supporters club/voice to push hard the argument that we oppose the tourist model. And accept others have different views and indeed are free to push their own voice. | |
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| When this is done and dusted on 15:35 - Mar 30 with 733 views | TheMoralMajority |
| When this is done and dusted on 15:29 - Mar 30 by J2BLUE |
I just meant this is a unique (hopefully) situation. Generally the club hasn't done a massive amount wrong before this.
You also said to represent fans who have a certain view. Not entirely sure what that means although I can probably guess so we would end up with multiple groups pushing different agendas.
Frankly there are only about 5 people on here I would be happy to have representing my opinion.
The voice of the fans should be the official supporter's club. Their statement was utterly pointless and if they can't or won't represent 100% of the fan base they should vacate their positions for people who will. |
Frankly there are only about 5 people on here I would be happy to have representing my opinion.
Thanks man. I know we've only just met, but I really appreciate it. |  |
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| When this is done and dusted on 15:36 - Mar 30 with 721 views | positivity |
| When this is done and dusted on 15:34 - Mar 30 by J2BLUE |
I don't know.
There are some people with strong moral who I don't think would allow themselves to be bought or influenced.
BL is one of them, although he's a filthy leftie. |
haven't you heard? we're all filthy leftie snowflakes now! | |
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| When this is done and dusted on 15:39 - Mar 30 with 709 views | Smoresy |
| When this is done and dusted on 15:11 - Mar 30 by bluelagos |
That would be what I think we need. A voice willing to dissent - not looking for special access -that's the last thing I see.
A voice of the fans - that effectively doesn't give a fck what the club's view is - it speaks for the fans of a certain view - primarily legacy fans at that.
Not a replacement of anyone - a new actual fan voice on issues like pricing / safe standing / policing / travel / match times etc. |
A very healthy thing to have no doubt, and I understand why you feel it isn't effectively served by individuals like yourself on here. Difficulty I see is, how do you amplify that voice sufficiently for it to have the desired impact, when it is detached from the club and resists its endorsement?
A charismatic character could start a YouTube channel and speak our truth on these occasional matters, gain a few thousand viewers or more. Maybe from there you could drive more concerted action. Would it provide a better platform than this place though, where the opportunity exists already to coordinate and criticise? Not sure. | | | |
| When this is done and dusted on 15:40 - Mar 30 with 698 views | Dubtractor |
| When this is done and dusted on 15:35 - Mar 30 by TheMoralMajority |
Frankly there are only about 5 people on here I would be happy to have representing my opinion.
Thanks man. I know we've only just met, but I really appreciate it. |
So it's you and I.
I wonder who the other 3 are? |  |
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| When this is done and dusted on 15:42 - Mar 30 with 683 views | J2BLUE |
| When this is done and dusted on 15:34 - Mar 30 by bluelagos |
Cheers for clarifying.
Think my point - is that a supporters club - that is expected to be the voice across the support - it's an impossible job.
Take for example the tourist model - some of the supporters think it's great (as it generates more money) - some think it's rubbish as it destroys the atmosphere on a matchday.
So I would love to see a "legacy" supporters club/voice to push hard the argument that we oppose the tourist model. And accept others have different views and indeed are free to push their own voice. |
That does sound like a good idea.
The OG TBs | |
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| When this is done and dusted on 15:43 - Mar 30 with 676 views | bluelagos |
| When this is done and dusted on 15:34 - Mar 30 by J2BLUE |
I don't know.
There are some people with strong moral who I don't think would allow themselves to be bought or influenced.
BL is one of them, although he's a filthy leftie. |
Far wokeist - get it right. | |
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| When this is done and dusted on 15:46 - Mar 30 with 650 views | vapour_trail |
| When this is done and dusted on 15:40 - Mar 30 by Dubtractor |
So it's you and I.
I wonder who the other 3 are? |
What he doesn’t realise is that you’re both blues. | |
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| When this is done and dusted on 15:52 - Mar 30 with 629 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| When this is done and dusted on 14:26 - Mar 30 by grow_our_own |
Polls consistently show around two-thirds of Ipswich supporters want Ashton to resign or be sacked. The Official Supporters Club doesn't speak for us. |
OK, playing devil's advocate here, and not based on my views - just trying to take a step back, and be objective about this...
How many people voted on these polls? 100 at most. However strongly the feeling may seem on this forum, it isn't credibly representative. All it shows is that 60+ people want Ashton gone.
Maybe X can give us a better indication?
The Ashton message - over 8.1k likes.
The most commented on negative response to that video from @CobboldMassive - 2.8k likes.
That's a better sample - and would suggest closer to 25% are unhappy (although not a direct corelation to wanting Ashton out). And this completely ignores the many fans who are ambivalent / uninterested, and not even participating.
Maybe not what many people on here want to hear, but the calls for Ashton to go could well be in a minority by some way. You could even possibly extrapolate it to a lot less than 10% when taking into account those who don't even feel strongly enough to engage.
This is not a very complete or scientific assessment, but the noise on the TWTD forum *may* not be representative of the sentiment elsewhere.
Just a little food for thought ... [Post edited 30 Mar 20:08]
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| When this is done and dusted on 16:02 - Mar 30 with 588 views | J2BLUE |
| When this is done and dusted on 15:52 - Mar 30 by SuffolkPunchFC |
OK, playing devil's advocate here, and not based on my views - just trying to take a step back, and be objective about this...
How many people voted on these polls? 100 at most. However strongly the feeling may seem on this forum, it isn't credibly representative. All it shows is that 60+ people want Ashton gone.
Maybe X can give us a better indication?
The Ashton message - over 8.1k likes.
The most commented on negative response to that video from @CobboldMassive - 2.8k likes.
That's a better sample - and would suggest closer to 25% are unhappy (although not a direct corelation to wanting Ashton out). And this completely ignores the many fans who are ambivalent / uninterested, and not even participating.
Maybe not what many people on here want to hear, but the calls for Ashton to go could well be in a minority by some way. You could even possibly extrapolate it to a lot less than 10% when taking into account those who don't even feel strongly enough to engage.
This is not a very complete or scientific assessment, but the noise on the TWTD forum *may* not be representative of the sentiment elsewhere.
Just a little food for thought ... [Post edited 30 Mar 20:08]
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I agree. I think the majority of Town fans would like to move on and forget it | |
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| When this is done and dusted on 16:02 - Mar 30 with 586 views | Pinewoodblue |
The supporters club needs remodelling. You gain access through the club website. This appears to be a recent comment
“ As we reflect on the incredible promotion season of 2022/23, we look forward to the continued success of Championship football as we all unite in the same direction. We extend our best wishes to both our men's and women's teams for a successful 2023/24 season. ”
I’m glad you made this post BL as it set me wondering what happened to the Independent Supporters Trust. They appear to still exist*but can’t remember hearing anything from them for years..
* I say appear to exist as they still have a bank account. I just checked and they are still receiving / taking a £5 annual subscription from by bank account every July. |  |
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| When this is done and dusted on 16:07 - Mar 30 with 566 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| When this is done and dusted on 15:52 - Mar 30 by SuffolkPunchFC |
OK, playing devil's advocate here, and not based on my views - just trying to take a step back, and be objective about this...
How many people voted on these polls? 100 at most. However strongly the feeling may seem on this forum, it isn't credibly representative. All it shows is that 60+ people want Ashton gone.
Maybe X can give us a better indication?
The Ashton message - over 8.1k likes.
The most commented on negative response to that video from @CobboldMassive - 2.8k likes.
That's a better sample - and would suggest closer to 25% are unhappy (although not a direct corelation to wanting Ashton out). And this completely ignores the many fans who are ambivalent / uninterested, and not even participating.
Maybe not what many people on here want to hear, but the calls for Ashton to go could well be in a minority by some way. You could even possibly extrapolate it to a lot less than 10% when taking into account those who don't even feel strongly enough to engage.
This is not a very complete or scientific assessment, but the noise on the TWTD forum *may* not be representative of the sentiment elsewhere.
Just a little food for thought ... [Post edited 30 Mar 20:08]
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Even if your total guesstimate of 10% is accurate, would you be happy that 3,000 fans at the match are unhappy with the chairman's associating the club with Reform and subsequent behaviour?
Would you be happy that 2 of the match day squad are unhappy with it? And another couple of manager/coaching staff too?
And your upper guesstimate is a quarter of these. So 7,500 of the crowd, 5 of the matchday squad, and another 4-5 of the coaching staff and manager.
What about the backroom staff too?
We would all wish to put this behind us but I suspect that for as long as Ashton is here, it won't be.
EDIT: And I would guess from the comments made by those in the know that it is a much higher figure than 25% amongst those inside the club who are very unhappy. [Post edited 30 Mar 16:09]
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| When this is done and dusted on 16:24 - Mar 30 with 516 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| When this is done and dusted on 16:07 - Mar 30 by Nthsuffolkblue |
Even if your total guesstimate of 10% is accurate, would you be happy that 3,000 fans at the match are unhappy with the chairman's associating the club with Reform and subsequent behaviour?
Would you be happy that 2 of the match day squad are unhappy with it? And another couple of manager/coaching staff too?
And your upper guesstimate is a quarter of these. So 7,500 of the crowd, 5 of the matchday squad, and another 4-5 of the coaching staff and manager.
What about the backroom staff too?
We would all wish to put this behind us but I suspect that for as long as Ashton is here, it won't be.
EDIT: And I would guess from the comments made by those in the know that it is a much higher figure than 25% amongst those inside the club who are very unhappy. [Post edited 30 Mar 16:09]
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Did I not say it was not representative of my views, so not sure why you ask if I'd be happy.
I was responding (very clearly) to the post suggesting 66% of fans wanted Ashton out. Posting claims that have no credibility undermine, rather than aid, the debate.
As I alluded to, I suspect it is far fewer than 10% of the overall fan base - but that is not the point, and even having a handful of fans, players, staff, etc extraordinarily upset by what happened is too many. However, anyone expecting an uprising of 10s of thousands of the grassroots Town supports base might be disappointed (and the OP was about giving a voice to the fans). | | | |
| When this is done and dusted on 16:32 - Mar 30 with 491 views | Blueschev |
| When this is done and dusted on 16:24 - Mar 30 by SuffolkPunchFC |
Did I not say it was not representative of my views, so not sure why you ask if I'd be happy.
I was responding (very clearly) to the post suggesting 66% of fans wanted Ashton out. Posting claims that have no credibility undermine, rather than aid, the debate.
As I alluded to, I suspect it is far fewer than 10% of the overall fan base - but that is not the point, and even having a handful of fans, players, staff, etc extraordinarily upset by what happened is too many. However, anyone expecting an uprising of 10s of thousands of the grassroots Town supports base might be disappointed (and the OP was about giving a voice to the fans). |
I think you're probably right. The club certainly appears to share your view. Keeping a very low profile in the hope that this all blows over. |  | | |
| When this is done and dusted on 16:33 - Mar 30 with 493 views | Dubtractor |
| When this is done and dusted on 16:24 - Mar 30 by SuffolkPunchFC |
Did I not say it was not representative of my views, so not sure why you ask if I'd be happy.
I was responding (very clearly) to the post suggesting 66% of fans wanted Ashton out. Posting claims that have no credibility undermine, rather than aid, the debate.
As I alluded to, I suspect it is far fewer than 10% of the overall fan base - but that is not the point, and even having a handful of fans, players, staff, etc extraordinarily upset by what happened is too many. However, anyone expecting an uprising of 10s of thousands of the grassroots Town supports base might be disappointed (and the OP was about giving a voice to the fans). |
My personal feeling, based on everything ive seen and heard from a number of places, is that 10% is way too low, in the same way that 66% is way too high.
Also, there is a difference between being really very unhappy about it, and demanding Ashton out. Whilst I suspect (no evidence) that at least 50% of our support are very unhappy, a smaller number than that will be demanding Ashton to leave his role.
All of that is moot though, as you say, as whatever number it is, is far too high. Particularly as that number seemingly includes some of our sponsors. | |
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| When this is done and dusted on 16:46 - Mar 30 with 468 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| When this is done and dusted on 16:33 - Mar 30 by Dubtractor |
My personal feeling, based on everything ive seen and heard from a number of places, is that 10% is way too low, in the same way that 66% is way too high.
Also, there is a difference between being really very unhappy about it, and demanding Ashton out. Whilst I suspect (no evidence) that at least 50% of our support are very unhappy, a smaller number than that will be demanding Ashton to leave his role.
All of that is moot though, as you say, as whatever number it is, is far too high. Particularly as that number seemingly includes some of our sponsors. |
Totally agree - without a doubt the number of people that are unhappy (and there will be degrees of unhappiness) will likely be way higher than those who want Ashton gone (the 66% claim I was specifically responding to). | | | |
| When this is done and dusted on 17:19 - Mar 30 with 401 views | SitfcB |
| When this is done and dusted on 14:26 - Mar 30 by grow_our_own |
Polls consistently show around two-thirds of Ipswich supporters want Ashton to resign or be sacked. The Official Supporters Club doesn't speak for us. |
Absolute made up crap.
Are you behind that Facebook protest event page then?
As that’s stating the same stat. |  |
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