| When this is done and dusted 14:16 - Mar 30 with 5522 views | bluelagos |
One thing that is glaringly obvious to me is that there isn't a proper independent supporters voice.
The official supporters club response was a statement of nothingness.
Blue Action. Could they evolve into being more out spoken? (My preference but are they even open to non A Block members?)
Matt Holland - he would never realistically fill this role.
The press - so dependent on access to the club that they seem reluctant to press the club hard.
The various supporter podcast things - think like the press they are scared of being properly critical.
Maybe there is a space for a truly independent supporters voice? Cos to be honest, I've felt we don't currently hear one from any of the above.
Lots of teams have truly independent supporters clubs, not convinced we do...
Thoughts?
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| When this is done and dusted on 22:09 - Mar 30 with 665 views | KBsSocks |
Nah. It's hoppy and 3 others, not worked them out yet. Dubs is a reserve, and down for minute-taking until he's subs on at 60 min. |  |
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| When this is done and dusted on 08:53 - Mar 31 with 547 views | Crawfordsboot |
| When this is done and dusted on 17:59 - Mar 30 by bluelagos |
"One problem is that not all supporters have the same voice on this. "
This is exactly my point - and I am not advocating for a group that represents all fans in any way shape or form.
I am advocating a voice for the traditional/legacy fan who essentially feels unrepresented at the moment on issues around pricing / safe standing / policing / travel / match times etc.
I'd like to see that voice heard - and those who don't agree, that's fine, would be welcome to make their own voice heard.
But by trying to represent all voices - no voices actually get heard. Just the sort of bland rubbish we've had from the supporters group and the podcast guys. The inevitable sitting on a fence which achieves what? |
Understandably this is a very fan focussed view but we need to remember that Town is part of a much bigger picture and industry. Town fans wanting to lobby on pricing, match times, policing and travel etc need to reflect that essentially these frameworks are dictated by the wider industry.
The market dictates player wages and therefore prices and TV match times etc. Should we stand out and refuse to pay high wages and languish in lower leagues? How would the fan base react then.
Yes it would make for good relations with a section of the fan base if there was better communication and exchanges but realpolitik says that the practical impact of this could only ever be limited.
Edit: Take the example of United where at every match a section of supporters stand and chant “we want Glaziers out” - It has zero effect, they are ignored by the owners and the majority of fans just want them to sit down so that everyone can watch the match. [Post edited 31 Mar 9:05]
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| When this is done and dusted on 09:18 - Mar 31 with 521 views | Libero |
I hear you bluelagos but I'm not sure there's a hunger for it?
What I've found *most* surprising about all of this is how a large portion of people boil it down simply to "politics"
In every way, this isn't a left VS right issue, it's a right VS wrong issue.
There's such an unwillingness to acknowledge what Farage *actually* represents - he's got a veil of legitimacy with so many people now, but the reality is he's an extremist that peddles hate via factually inaccurate propaganda designed to appear to give easy answers to complex questions- it transcends "politics" it's about humanity.
Then even if you park that, there's the lying by Mark Ashton.
We quite literally teach our children that this kind of lying is wrong, if you're a good parent you also teach them how to give a proper apology- which Ashton has not delivered. Yet a number of people are satisfied by the apology and want to move things along as fast as possible so we can get back to the football?
It's just so wrong.
Clubs are representative of communities, made up of all kinds of people of different genders, sexualities, religions, nationalities, support needs- who remembers the trans lady who took those fabulous penalties many years ago in the half time entertainment? We've got rainbow tractors, our previous captain was a muslim (I wonder why no Farage visit was sanctioned while he was captain...)
"Ipswich lives together in racial harmony" is a part of our history- yet so many seem all too happy to forget that, throw away those values in favour of just pretending that it's not totally wrong that our CEO invited a quasi-fascist for lunch, then lied about it, then delivered a textbook non apology.
"he's done nothing illegal" - I heard on the Blue Monday Podcast.
Is that the measure?! We're so devoid of ethical and moral standards that we fall back on what is and isn't legal?
Hiding behind this claim of "apolitical" is cowardly and in itself normalises the brand of quasi-fascism that Farage has brought to the UK.
Not picking a side, is picking a side.
I'm not expecting the club to come out and endorse an alternative political party, that's wrong - what I do expect is for them to make a robust statement about how everyone is welcome at Portman Road and that any kind of hateful division or bigotry goes against the clubs values and ethos.
Some things are more important that football. |  | | |
| When this is done and dusted on 09:24 - Mar 31 with 503 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| When this is done and dusted on 22:09 - Mar 30 by KBsSocks |
Nah. It's hoppy and 3 others, not worked them out yet. Dubs is a reserve, and down for minute-taking until he's subs on at 60 min. |
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| When this is done and dusted on 09:27 - Mar 31 with 482 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| When this is done and dusted on 09:18 - Mar 31 by Libero |
I hear you bluelagos but I'm not sure there's a hunger for it?
What I've found *most* surprising about all of this is how a large portion of people boil it down simply to "politics"
In every way, this isn't a left VS right issue, it's a right VS wrong issue.
There's such an unwillingness to acknowledge what Farage *actually* represents - he's got a veil of legitimacy with so many people now, but the reality is he's an extremist that peddles hate via factually inaccurate propaganda designed to appear to give easy answers to complex questions- it transcends "politics" it's about humanity.
Then even if you park that, there's the lying by Mark Ashton.
We quite literally teach our children that this kind of lying is wrong, if you're a good parent you also teach them how to give a proper apology- which Ashton has not delivered. Yet a number of people are satisfied by the apology and want to move things along as fast as possible so we can get back to the football?
It's just so wrong.
Clubs are representative of communities, made up of all kinds of people of different genders, sexualities, religions, nationalities, support needs- who remembers the trans lady who took those fabulous penalties many years ago in the half time entertainment? We've got rainbow tractors, our previous captain was a muslim (I wonder why no Farage visit was sanctioned while he was captain...)
"Ipswich lives together in racial harmony" is a part of our history- yet so many seem all too happy to forget that, throw away those values in favour of just pretending that it's not totally wrong that our CEO invited a quasi-fascist for lunch, then lied about it, then delivered a textbook non apology.
"he's done nothing illegal" - I heard on the Blue Monday Podcast.
Is that the measure?! We're so devoid of ethical and moral standards that we fall back on what is and isn't legal?
Hiding behind this claim of "apolitical" is cowardly and in itself normalises the brand of quasi-fascism that Farage has brought to the UK.
Not picking a side, is picking a side.
I'm not expecting the club to come out and endorse an alternative political party, that's wrong - what I do expect is for them to make a robust statement about how everyone is welcome at Portman Road and that any kind of hateful division or bigotry goes against the clubs values and ethos.
Some things are more important that football. |
"He's done nothing illegal!"
Since when did that become the benchmark for whether the club should sack Ashton?
There are a huge number of football managers who should still be working at clubs if "they've done nothing illegal" is the benchmark. Additionally, by that very benchmark there are a few in place who shouldn't be! |  |
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| When this is done and dusted on 09:30 - Mar 31 with 474 views | Libero |
| When this is done and dusted on 09:27 - Mar 31 by Nthsuffolkblue |
"He's done nothing illegal!"
Since when did that become the benchmark for whether the club should sack Ashton?
There are a huge number of football managers who should still be working at clubs if "they've done nothing illegal" is the benchmark. Additionally, by that very benchmark there are a few in place who shouldn't be! |
Yep, when that was uttered late on in the show, I realised the level of discussion I'd wasted my time listening to. | | | |
| When this is done and dusted on 09:45 - Mar 31 with 444 views | reusersfreekicks |
| When this is done and dusted on 09:18 - Mar 31 by Libero |
I hear you bluelagos but I'm not sure there's a hunger for it?
What I've found *most* surprising about all of this is how a large portion of people boil it down simply to "politics"
In every way, this isn't a left VS right issue, it's a right VS wrong issue.
There's such an unwillingness to acknowledge what Farage *actually* represents - he's got a veil of legitimacy with so many people now, but the reality is he's an extremist that peddles hate via factually inaccurate propaganda designed to appear to give easy answers to complex questions- it transcends "politics" it's about humanity.
Then even if you park that, there's the lying by Mark Ashton.
We quite literally teach our children that this kind of lying is wrong, if you're a good parent you also teach them how to give a proper apology- which Ashton has not delivered. Yet a number of people are satisfied by the apology and want to move things along as fast as possible so we can get back to the football?
It's just so wrong.
Clubs are representative of communities, made up of all kinds of people of different genders, sexualities, religions, nationalities, support needs- who remembers the trans lady who took those fabulous penalties many years ago in the half time entertainment? We've got rainbow tractors, our previous captain was a muslim (I wonder why no Farage visit was sanctioned while he was captain...)
"Ipswich lives together in racial harmony" is a part of our history- yet so many seem all too happy to forget that, throw away those values in favour of just pretending that it's not totally wrong that our CEO invited a quasi-fascist for lunch, then lied about it, then delivered a textbook non apology.
"he's done nothing illegal" - I heard on the Blue Monday Podcast.
Is that the measure?! We're so devoid of ethical and moral standards that we fall back on what is and isn't legal?
Hiding behind this claim of "apolitical" is cowardly and in itself normalises the brand of quasi-fascism that Farage has brought to the UK.
Not picking a side, is picking a side.
I'm not expecting the club to come out and endorse an alternative political party, that's wrong - what I do expect is for them to make a robust statement about how everyone is welcome at Portman Road and that any kind of hateful division or bigotry goes against the clubs values and ethos.
Some things are more important that football. |
Well said |  | | |
| When this is done and dusted on 10:42 - Mar 31 with 404 views | RetroBlue |
As a sample of the " Town fan base population" In wondering , just how representative of the Ipswich Town fan base is TWTD? How many people post on here , compared to the close to 29k attendance at PR each week? |  |
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| When this is done and dusted on 10:49 - Mar 31 with 396 views | grow_our_own |
| When this is done and dusted on 10:42 - Mar 31 by RetroBlue |
As a sample of the " Town fan base population" In wondering , just how representative of the Ipswich Town fan base is TWTD? How many people post on here , compared to the close to 29k attendance at PR each week? |
Pretty representative Retro: https://www.twtd.co.uk/members
Almost equally left and right, just like the UK and Ipswich given it flits between Labour and Tories. TWTD isn't a hotbed of left-wingers as some would have you believe. |  | | |
| When this is done and dusted on 10:51 - Mar 31 with 387 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| When this is done and dusted on 10:42 - Mar 31 by RetroBlue |
As a sample of the " Town fan base population" In wondering , just how representative of the Ipswich Town fan base is TWTD? How many people post on here , compared to the close to 29k attendance at PR each week? |
It is a very valid question. I would say what factors make it unrepresentative?
It is clearly populated by people who have time to engage. It is those who are more engaged with the internet and social media. But aside from those considerations, why would twtd be especially unrepresentative of wider opinion? I guess there are a lot of older fans who are entrenched in views and who wouldn't be likely to have high engagement with social media. Their demographic would probably put them in higher likelihood to be Conservative or Reform voters.
As you state, a small sample size can easily be very unrepresentative too. | |
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| When this is done and dusted on 10:52 - Mar 31 with 385 views | RetroBlue |
| When this is done and dusted on 10:49 - Mar 31 by grow_our_own |
Pretty representative Retro: https://www.twtd.co.uk/members
Almost equally left and right, just like the UK and Ipswich given it flits between Labour and Tories. TWTD isn't a hotbed of left-wingers as some would have you believe. |
That's quite and interesting poll isnt it ... almost nothing to suggest a preference in any direction. Guess its just who shouts the loudest gets heard...same as in society . Youre right ! | |
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| When this is done and dusted on 10:54 - Mar 31 with 380 views | TheMoralMajority |
| When this is done and dusted on 10:49 - Mar 31 by grow_our_own |
Pretty representative Retro: https://www.twtd.co.uk/members
Almost equally left and right, just like the UK and Ipswich given it flits between Labour and Tories. TWTD isn't a hotbed of left-wingers as some would have you believe. |
Just checked the numbers on the poll. Sadly whilst I would like it to be a reflection of the wide array of views here, with fewer than 100 respondents, I don't think too much can be read into it. |  |
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| When this is done and dusted on 10:55 - Mar 31 with 378 views | southnorfolkblue |
| When this is done and dusted on 14:47 - Mar 30 by bluelagos |
Which is exactly why we need a voice. Look at how the club has been pushing the hospitality angle and not engaging BA / atmosphere issues.
The tourist model is clearly the direction of travel from Ashton. If/when he's gone it might be possible to have a reset.
As far as I am aware - no supporters groups have ever been consulted on the appropriateness of pushing hospitality, whilst nothing much on safe standing.
Did anyone here ever get an input? Same for flame throwers and light shows - wtf thought they were a good idea? |
The tourist model goes deeper than Ashton imho. It’s a very American way of approaching ticket sales. | |
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| When this is done and dusted on 11:02 - Mar 31 with 365 views | grow_our_own |
| When this is done and dusted on 10:54 - Mar 31 by TheMoralMajority |
Just checked the numbers on the poll. Sadly whilst I would like it to be a reflection of the wide array of views here, with fewer than 100 respondents, I don't think too much can be read into it. |
More can be read into that poll than anything else. 100 isn't insignificant. That's more than everyone who is currently logged into TWTD according to the username list at bottom of forum page: https://www.twtd.co.uk/forum/ | | | |
| When this is done and dusted on 11:43 - Mar 31 with 322 views | bluelagos |
| When this is done and dusted on 10:55 - Mar 31 by southnorfolkblue |
The tourist model goes deeper than Ashton imho. It’s a very American way of approaching ticket sales. |
"Direction of travel"
Change in football tends to be by lots of small steps - at each step someone says - that's no good.
But as it's lots of small steps it's rarely fans all speak out at the same time, and they get away with it.
Only occasion I can think where they did it in one go was by trying to introduce the European super league all in go... | |
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| When this is done and dusted on 13:09 - Mar 31 with 288 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| When this is done and dusted on 11:02 - Mar 31 by grow_our_own |
More can be read into that poll than anything else. 100 isn't insignificant. That's more than everyone who is currently logged into TWTD according to the username list at bottom of forum page: https://www.twtd.co.uk/forum/ |
That's somewhat simplistic. Do you log in every time you visit the site? I certainly do not, especially since you can only be logged in on one device / browser at a time. I log in when I want to do something that can only be done when logged in.
Now take a look at the notification at the bottom of the forum page in more detail :
"...and 1703 guests have all visited the site in the last ten minutes."
As much as many of us would like to think TWTD is highly representative, I'm not sure that is anywhere close to reality. | | | |
| When this is done and dusted on 08:11 - Apr 1 with 169 views | Crawfordsboot |
| When this is done and dusted on 11:43 - Mar 31 by bluelagos |
"Direction of travel"
Change in football tends to be by lots of small steps - at each step someone says - that's no good.
But as it's lots of small steps it's rarely fans all speak out at the same time, and they get away with it.
Only occasion I can think where they did it in one go was by trying to introduce the European super league all in go... |
The figures in the accounts indicate that last season income from ticket sales of around £10 million paled in comparison to tv rights at around £100 million. Therein lies the relative priority of TWTD registered supporters - v - tv fans. | | | |
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