| Two Jewish bods stabbed on 14:02 - May 1 with 585 views | Ryorry |
| Two Jewish bods stabbed on 13:11 - May 1 by reusersfreekicks |
Was in reply to flying Hamas flags not the crime the post is about.
Simply scrolling back iwould show you that if you could be bothered |
I had read that and it was pointed out by other poster/s that the number of Israeli flags were a very small minority amongst the number of other flags, so I still agree with those others who described your post as “whataboutery”. |  |
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| Two Jewish bods stabbed on 14:37 - May 1 with 513 views | giant_stow |
| Two Jewish bods stabbed on 12:52 - May 1 by NthQldITFC |
See, while I respect your view on that, I think this is exactly the sort of problem we have.
If someone criticises the police for apparently kicking a man repeatedly in the head when he's been tasered and is down and to a large extent incapacitated, there are certainly valid questions that should be asked about level of force used, in any context.
Where Polanski is wrong for me (and where I'd probably give these officers a pass on the face of it) is that the officers probably didn't have any idea whether he was mentally ill at the time, and that they were trying to get him to relinquish the knife. Then again you could say he was under control even though he still held the knife. But is someone under control if they are holding a knife? And what is the level of force required or permissible in the moment to contain or resolve the situation?
I think they're all valid questions. Important questions, particularly to ITFC fans perhaps in the context of what was done to one of our former heroes by the police.
But because they were asked by Zack Polanski in relation to this particular incident in the context of this week of news and the context of his earlier ill-judged comments and phrasing and the context of the smears he has suffered - some personal, some religion-based, some political - he receives another salvo of intense criticism and the involvement in politics of a senior police officer who is almost certainly interested in deflecting any further criticism of the police onto another target.
I think the questions were right, but that maybe we're not mature enough as a society to hear them at this time from Zack Polanski, divisively painted and perceived by some as a traitor, at this particular moment. He ought to be more tactical and wiser in the pursuit of his very important broader aims though.
I think the 'responsibilities to society and social cohesion' you speak of demand that people question the conduct of police officers where violence is used in public, even though, as I say, I'd personally give them the OK in this case. |
Considered and fair as ever, Mr Nth.
We do disagree a bit though.
Personally, I think that when dealing with a dangerous murderous person in the midst of a rampage, the policemens' first duty is to stop the carnage. The well-being of the offender is important, but way less so than the public being attacked or the well-being of the coppers.
They had no idea what the guy had on him or what he was wearing - they were in danger and we can see how they dealt with it. It was horribly violent, but I think such force was reasonable in the circumstances and would guess the vast majority viewing it since would agree.
My wider point about social cohesion is driven by the efforts of some to stir up an issue with the arrest and create a new tension in certain circles. This could have been explosive in the circumstances and easily led to more violence. For a leading politician to embrace that and amplify it was a horribly irresponsible act, which might have caused serious racially based disorder. Hence my disbelief that it takes a policeman to lecture a social democrat / or socialist about the dangers of this act to social cohesion.
There's another problem though, in the context of ever-increasing antisemitic incidents. Polanski's intervention also says (to me at least) that he worries more about the criminal than those attacked. He might have chosen to apologise for his horrible 'perception of safety' comments in the aftermath of this, or to have gone to Golder's Green himself even, but instead, he apparently questioned the acts of the people saving those Jewish people. Do you see how that may look to people already under attack?
Edited to make it vaguely readable. [Post edited 1 May 14:48]
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| Two Jewish bods stabbed on 14:45 - May 1 with 490 views | giant_stow |
| Two Jewish bods stabbed on 13:57 - May 1 by GlasgowBlue |
The Green Party are just manifesting into Labour under Corbyn.
Remember when the Green’s main priority was the environment? Yeah TWTD. |
This one's being going on all week - amazed that it's not been sorted yet. | |
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| Two Jewish bods stabbed on 14:56 - May 1 with 466 views | positivity |
| Two Jewish bods stabbed on 08:59 - Apr 30 by itfcjoe |
To project an image like Tommy Robinson |
"Zack Polanski was born David Paulden on 2 November 1982[1] in Salford, Greater Manchester,[2] where he also grew up.[3] His Jewish ancestors had moved to the UK from Poland to escape the occupation by Nazi Germany,[4] but originated from Latvia which they fled to escape pogroms (initially to Ukraine, then to Poland)[5] in the early twentieth century. The family adopted the surname of Paulden hoping to evade antisemitism.[6][7] His parents divorced when he was young.[2] At age 18, he changed his name, restoring his familial name of Polanski, later saying it was important for him to take pride in his identity."
nothing like tommy robinson!
(edit: source wikipedia, in case you want to check the references) [Post edited 1 May 15:05]
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| Two Jewish bods stabbed on 14:59 - May 1 with 443 views | Clapham_Junction |
| Two Jewish bods stabbed on 10:49 - May 1 by giant_stow |
I see many are up in arms over this message, seeing it as police meddling in politics.
Personally, I think it comes to something when it takes the police to remind everyone about their responsibilities to society and social cohesion. |
I think the intervention is problematic for two main reasons. The Met has received a huge amount of criticism from various parties and politicians over the last few years - particularly from right-leaning politicians for allowing the anti-war marches - but I don't recall seeing the direct responses to them. We're also currently in pre-election purdah and public authorities are meant to be silent on anything vaguely political. |  | | |
| Two Jewish bods stabbed on 15:04 - May 1 with 416 views | positivity |
| Two Jewish bods stabbed on 14:59 - May 1 by Clapham_Junction |
I think the intervention is problematic for two main reasons. The Met has received a huge amount of criticism from various parties and politicians over the last few years - particularly from right-leaning politicians for allowing the anti-war marches - but I don't recall seeing the direct responses to them. We're also currently in pre-election purdah and public authorities are meant to be silent on anything vaguely political. |
i'd agree on this, think polanski's letter was wrong in tone and timing, but the met shouldn't respond directly on twitter.
a generalised statement defending the officers with an explanation would have been much more appropriate
unless anyone knows of a precedent where they've directly responded to badenoch or farage in an election cycle? | |
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| Two Jewish bods stabbed on 15:09 - May 1 with 396 views | giant_stow |
| Two Jewish bods stabbed on 14:59 - May 1 by Clapham_Junction |
I think the intervention is problematic for two main reasons. The Met has received a huge amount of criticism from various parties and politicians over the last few years - particularly from right-leaning politicians for allowing the anti-war marches - but I don't recall seeing the direct responses to them. We're also currently in pre-election purdah and public authorities are meant to be silent on anything vaguely political. |
Tbf, I do think you have a point on consistency - I don't remember any push back on the whole two-tier policing thing for example. But maybe they've learnt from that and have changed approach? Whatever, I would say the danger of more violence spurred the Police chief this time and that's more important than an election. | |
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| Two Jewish bods stabbed on 15:24 - May 1 with 349 views | positivity |
| Two Jewish bods stabbed on 15:09 - May 1 by giant_stow |
Tbf, I do think you have a point on consistency - I don't remember any push back on the whole two-tier policing thing for example. But maybe they've learnt from that and have changed approach? Whatever, I would say the danger of more violence spurred the Police chief this time and that's more important than an election. |
was the letter from polanski an open letter? | |
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| Two Jewish bods stabbed on 15:28 - May 1 with 344 views | giant_stow |
| Two Jewish bods stabbed on 15:24 - May 1 by positivity |
was the letter from polanski an open letter? |
I'm not even sure it was a letter - I think he retweeted someone calling the manner of the arrest into question. | |
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| Two Jewish bods stabbed on 15:29 - May 1 with 336 views | Clapham_Junction |
| Two Jewish bods stabbed on 15:09 - May 1 by giant_stow |
Tbf, I do think you have a point on consistency - I don't remember any push back on the whole two-tier policing thing for example. But maybe they've learnt from that and have changed approach? Whatever, I would say the danger of more violence spurred the Police chief this time and that's more important than an election. |
I can't see how Polanski's retweet could in any way be seen as encouraging more violence - it was responding to how the police were treating a detainee. | | | |
| Two Jewish bods stabbed on 15:38 - May 1 with 308 views | positivity |
| Two Jewish bods stabbed on 15:28 - May 1 by giant_stow |
I'm not even sure it was a letter - I think he retweeted someone calling the manner of the arrest into question. |
ok, thanks, farage and has ilk have definitely done that
in that case, i think it was wrong to single out polanski; a general statement would have been just as effective without feeding the accusations of bias the met already suffer from
singling out the only jewish party leader in this way, won't exactly help dissuade the accusations that the jewish community are treated differently either! | |
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| Two Jewish bods stabbed on 15:43 - May 1 with 293 views | giant_stow |
| Two Jewish bods stabbed on 15:29 - May 1 by Clapham_Junction |
I can't see how Polanski's retweet could in any way be seen as encouraging more violence - it was responding to how the police were treating a detainee. |
Fair enough. For me though, I've seen several people on social media talking about the outrage they felt seeing a brown skinned man treated that way by the police. Perhaps that's my fault for reading social media and attaching too much importance to what people say, granted. | |
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| Two Jewish bods stabbed on 15:44 - May 1 with 284 views | giant_stow |
| Two Jewish bods stabbed on 15:38 - May 1 by positivity |
ok, thanks, farage and has ilk have definitely done that
in that case, i think it was wrong to single out polanski; a general statement would have been just as effective without feeding the accusations of bias the met already suffer from
singling out the only jewish party leader in this way, won't exactly help dissuade the accusations that the jewish community are treated differently either! |
I think we disagree on this, but that's fine. | |
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| Two Jewish bods stabbed on 15:54 - May 1 with 250 views | bartyg |
Hadn't even realised until today that there was actually an alleged third victim hours before..
"It is also alleged Suleiman attempted to murder Ishmail Hussein in a knife attack at Hussein's flat in Southwark, south London, earlier on the same day. Hussein had known Suleiman for around 20 years."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/art |  |
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| Two Jewish bods stabbed on 17:12 - May 1 with 168 views | giant_stow |
| Two Jewish bods stabbed on 15:38 - May 1 by positivity |
ok, thanks, farage and has ilk have definitely done that
in that case, i think it was wrong to single out polanski; a general statement would have been just as effective without feeding the accusations of bias the met already suffer from
singling out the only jewish party leader in this way, won't exactly help dissuade the accusations that the jewish community are treated differently either! |
I see Polanski has now apologised, and it was a proper apology too (not an "Ashton" one, dare I say it), He left space for his own point, while also backing down, so fair play / well done. [Post edited 1 May 17:14]
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| Two Jewish bods stabbed on 17:22 - May 1 with 146 views | Trequartista |
| Two Jewish bods stabbed on 19:40 - Apr 30 by GlasgowBlue |
Zack really is shitting the bed lately. No wonder all the Corbyn fan boys are drinking his cool aid.
[Post edited 30 Apr 19:49]
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I'm not a fan of Polanski, but there is no answer there to why they were kicking the guy in the head.
It's possible to acknowledge the bravery of the officers, the danger they were in, the good outcome of disarming and arresting the terrorist etc. I don't even really care much for the health of the terrorist considering what he'd done.
But still, why were they kicking him in the head? Looks weird. |  |
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| Two Jewish bods stabbed on 17:29 - May 1 with 131 views | positivity |
| Two Jewish bods stabbed on 17:12 - May 1 by giant_stow |
I see Polanski has now apologised, and it was a proper apology too (not an "Ashton" one, dare I say it), He left space for his own point, while also backing down, so fair play / well done. [Post edited 1 May 17:14]
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that's good to hear, corbyn never really managed the proper apology either | |
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| Two Jewish bods stabbed on 17:48 - May 1 with 96 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Two Jewish bods stabbed on 08:27 - May 1 by NthQldITFC |
...or indeed having a discussion on a football forum where most of us probably agree with 95% of what the other is saying but it's the 5% where the fire always starts, or where the embers always flare up from again next time around.
We find it very hard to separate the issues we are at loggerheads on from the issues we agree on, and the coppers find it very hard to separate the arseholes at the protests from the vast majority of decent, well-intentioned people of all faiths, colours and backgrounds.
Whether on the emotionally charged atmospheres of the streets of TWTD or the pun-infested web pages of London, understandably high emotions get in the way of constructive compromise and so on ad infinitum. |
Yeah, people do like an argument. I suspect you’re right in that we have a lot more in common than differences, but that isn’t the way of the world now. You’ve got to try and prove you’re right and fight*. It gets a bit dull imo, and bloody tiring. We need more lovers and fewer fighters.
(for your right, to paaartaay!). |  |
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| Two Jewish bods stabbed on 17:58 - May 1 with 75 views | NthQldITFC |
| Two Jewish bods stabbed on 17:22 - May 1 by Trequartista |
I'm not a fan of Polanski, but there is no answer there to why they were kicking the guy in the head.
It's possible to acknowledge the bravery of the officers, the danger they were in, the good outcome of disarming and arresting the terrorist etc. I don't even really care much for the health of the terrorist considering what he'd done.
But still, why were they kicking him in the head? Looks weird. |
It was always right to ask those questions, just that people piled on Polanski for asking them because he fked up last week.
It's the heat of the overall fire that prevents people from seeing the individual parts on their own merits. It's understandable, but it also needs to be challenged. |  |
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