| Polanski on 11:31 - May 6 with 1159 views | lowhouseblue |
| Polanski on 11:19 - May 6 by urbanpenguin |
I don't know if it's a class based thing tbh, so much as a centrist one. Greens are doing quite well in traditionally middle class areas, many of the people arrested on pro-Palestine marches and present at other progressive marches would be deemed "middle class", and the overlap of middle classness and environmental politics is not new. |
oh no, are people being nasty about the middle classes. they have to suffer so much.
it's only one narrow bit of the middle class that may overlap with the current greens (who now have next to nothing to do with environmentalism).
perhaps your'e muddling middle class with performative social justice signallers? |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Polanski on 11:34 - May 6 with 1142 views | leitrimblue |
| Polanski on 11:19 - May 6 by urbanpenguin |
I don't know if it's a class based thing tbh, so much as a centrist one. Greens are doing quite well in traditionally middle class areas, many of the people arrested on pro-Palestine marches and present at other progressive marches would be deemed "middle class", and the overlap of middle classness and environmental politics is not new. |
I like to think of um as the people that brought you Boris and Starmer and now offer you Kemi and Nig.
You'd be mad to vote for Polanski  |  | | |
| Polanski on 11:38 - May 6 with 1108 views | DJR |
| Polanski on 11:31 - May 6 by lowhouseblue |
oh no, are people being nasty about the middle classes. they have to suffer so much.
it's only one narrow bit of the middle class that may overlap with the current greens (who now have next to nothing to do with environmentalism).
perhaps your'e muddling middle class with performative social justice signallers? |
"performative social justice signallers"
That's a new one on me. |  | | |
| Polanski on 11:41 - May 6 with 1077 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| Polanski on 11:38 - May 6 by DJR |
"performative social justice signallers"
That's a new one on me. |
I though it was "social justice warriors" and "virtue signallers"? A interesting combination of the two! |  |
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| Polanski on 11:42 - May 6 with 1052 views | lowhouseblue |
| Polanski on 11:41 - May 6 by Ewan_Oozami |
I though it was "social justice warriors" and "virtue signallers"? A interesting combination of the two! |
isn't language exciting! | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Polanski on 11:43 - May 6 with 1045 views | DJR |
| Polanski on 11:41 - May 6 by Ewan_Oozami |
I though it was "social justice warriors" and "virtue signallers"? A interesting combination of the two! |
Also "performative" and "signallers" together is rather over-egging the pudding. | | | |
| Polanski on 11:45 - May 6 with 1021 views | DJR |
| Polanski on 11:42 - May 6 by lowhouseblue |
isn't language exciting! |
And I suppose it does trip off the tongue. | | | |
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| Polanski on 11:50 - May 6 with 980 views | JakeITFC |
12 pages into a thread is probably not the best place for an original thought on a subject but here goes anyway - I'm a bit worried that Polanski is a bit of a charlatan and is going to be a lightning rod for criticism in a way will detract from the Green movement. I am a long-term Green voter and am onboard with the majority of what they are trying to do (certainly more so that any other party as it stands) but I just can't get onboard with him.
I guess the argument is that you need these cult of personality/career politician types with aspiration to become party leaders or politicians but I just feel the message could be better delivered if they were doing different to the status quo. I don't think Polanski is far off being Farage but cut from a different cloth. |  | | |
| Polanski on 11:50 - May 6 with 975 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| Polanski on 11:45 - May 6 by DJR |
And I suppose it does trip off the tongue. |
Not for someone with a cleft palate and harelip like me, those "s" sounds are a complete pain to say... | |
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| Polanski on 11:58 - May 6 with 916 views | lowhouseblue |
| Polanski on 11:50 - May 6 by JakeITFC |
12 pages into a thread is probably not the best place for an original thought on a subject but here goes anyway - I'm a bit worried that Polanski is a bit of a charlatan and is going to be a lightning rod for criticism in a way will detract from the Green movement. I am a long-term Green voter and am onboard with the majority of what they are trying to do (certainly more so that any other party as it stands) but I just can't get onboard with him.
I guess the argument is that you need these cult of personality/career politician types with aspiration to become party leaders or politicians but I just feel the message could be better delivered if they were doing different to the status quo. I don't think Polanski is far off being Farage but cut from a different cloth. |
with the exception of farage, those sorts of attention seeking personalities tend to flitter around the public face of parties rather than ever become leader - you think of kilroy silk, or jeffrey archer, or cyril smith. generally over time the baggage they acquire pulls them down. i guess polanski came out of nowhere and wasn't previously taken seriously and so people are now seeing him for the first time. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Polanski on 11:58 - May 6 with 911 views | DJR |
| Polanski on 11:50 - May 6 by JakeITFC |
12 pages into a thread is probably not the best place for an original thought on a subject but here goes anyway - I'm a bit worried that Polanski is a bit of a charlatan and is going to be a lightning rod for criticism in a way will detract from the Green movement. I am a long-term Green voter and am onboard with the majority of what they are trying to do (certainly more so that any other party as it stands) but I just can't get onboard with him.
I guess the argument is that you need these cult of personality/career politician types with aspiration to become party leaders or politicians but I just feel the message could be better delivered if they were doing different to the status quo. I don't think Polanski is far off being Farage but cut from a different cloth. |
The criticism from the two who stood against him was that his "eco-populism" wasn't going to increase the Green vote.
That hasn't turned out to be the case. Indeed, the reverse is true and the party membership has grown enormously.
Of course to a large extent that may be due to the increasing unpopularity of Starmer, and I could see a situation in which the Green's vote might go back to more usual levels were, say, Burnham to be leader.
Maybe the lesson to learn is that Polanski has good qualities in terms of communication but he needs to be kept in check, and the whole thing needs to be a bit more collegiate.
Indeed, it surprises me that we see or hear very little about or from the other Green MPs, although that may be because the media aren't interested in them. [Post edited 6 May 12:11]
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| Polanski on 11:59 - May 6 with 894 views | Dubtractor |
| Polanski on 11:50 - May 6 by JakeITFC |
12 pages into a thread is probably not the best place for an original thought on a subject but here goes anyway - I'm a bit worried that Polanski is a bit of a charlatan and is going to be a lightning rod for criticism in a way will detract from the Green movement. I am a long-term Green voter and am onboard with the majority of what they are trying to do (certainly more so that any other party as it stands) but I just can't get onboard with him.
I guess the argument is that you need these cult of personality/career politician types with aspiration to become party leaders or politicians but I just feel the message could be better delivered if they were doing different to the status quo. I don't think Polanski is far off being Farage but cut from a different cloth. |
It is populism through a different lens. I know local green members who are unimpressed.
None of that changes the hatchet job currently being done one him, whilst almost all of our media gives Farage a free pass for any number of things. |  |
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| Polanski on 12:05 - May 6 with 846 views | Herbivore |
My take, Polanski has said and done some daft things that make me have question marks over his character. However, this holds true of pretty much all of the leaders of the current political parties in England. What is interesting is the traction, the amplifying, and the vitriol that comes with every grain of dirt dug up on a left wing leader. Last week the BBC didn't have anything up on Farage's undeclared £5m donation on their main news pages after the story had broken. They rarely give the main headlines to the various shadiness he's involved in or the scandals that continually hit his party and their candidates.
I think it's quite telling how terrified the media and the wealthy establishment are of left wing politics. Left wing politics is a threat to them in a way that right wing politics isn't. The establishment in the UK would sooner pivot to extreme right wing parties like Reform than tolerate a left of centre political party getting close to power. That's because ultimately the likes of Reform fully intend to keep lining the pockets of the wealthy and they'll throw in a healthy dose of eroding workers' rights and general protection of human rights to boot. The price to pay? Just a bit of demonising foreign folk and the speeding up of the erosion of the fabric of the country. Worth is to keep the grift going.
So in short, it seems Polanski is a bit of a berk. Personally, the Greens are the party most closely aligned to my own politics so I'll probably vote for them because I tend to vote for the party rather than the leader. But people really should also question why every tiny bone on every skeleton in Polanski's closet gets pored over in a way that doesn't happen to really dangerous leaders like Farage. And if people are joining in the amplification then that's their choice but they should reflect on why they're doing it (to such a great extent) and whose interests it serves. Basically, it can be true that Polanski is a bit of an eejit and that this is something of a witch-hunt, it's not an either/or situation. |  |
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| Polanski on 12:10 - May 6 with 816 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Polanski on 11:59 - May 6 by Dubtractor |
It is populism through a different lens. I know local green members who are unimpressed.
None of that changes the hatchet job currently being done one him, whilst almost all of our media gives Farage a free pass for any number of things. |
Is it a hatchet job though?
The media didn't force him to lie and say he was a spokesperson for the Red Cross jhe. standing for deputy leader.
The media didn't force him to say he could make women's tits grow bigger through hypnosis.
The media didn't force him to minimise antisemitism against the British Jewish during a period when they are facing relentless attacks.
The media didn't force him to take in all of the people thrown out of the Labour party to the extent that two of his candidates have been arrested for hate speech against Jews and a further 40 candidates are under investigation for antisemitism.
At least the traditional Greens are starting to push back against their party being highjacked. Sadly too late.
https://www.thetimes.com/uk/po |  |
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| Polanski on 12:11 - May 6 with 799 views | Ryorry |
| Polanski on 08:52 - May 6 by DJR |
I don't think it will matter what they do.
The attacks started from day 1, with an article in the Mail which in terms of headline and imagery is straight out of the Nazi playbook.
https://leftfootforward.org/20
And it has been followed up by cartoons which if featuring any other Jewish figure would rightly be challenged as antisemitic.
In my view this, and the particular hostility to him, is because he is opposed to the actions of the Israeli government which is out of line with mainstream opinion in this country, but not necessarily US Jewish opinion where 60% of Jews believe Israel has committed war crimes and 40% that it has committed genocide. [Post edited 6 May 9:00]
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Would it be too much to ask the “Green” party to focus on the issues that attracted so many of us to them & got us to join them originally, ie “green”/environmental issues ? |  |
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| Polanski on 12:13 - May 6 with 781 views | lowhouseblue |
| Polanski on 12:05 - May 6 by Herbivore |
My take, Polanski has said and done some daft things that make me have question marks over his character. However, this holds true of pretty much all of the leaders of the current political parties in England. What is interesting is the traction, the amplifying, and the vitriol that comes with every grain of dirt dug up on a left wing leader. Last week the BBC didn't have anything up on Farage's undeclared £5m donation on their main news pages after the story had broken. They rarely give the main headlines to the various shadiness he's involved in or the scandals that continually hit his party and their candidates.
I think it's quite telling how terrified the media and the wealthy establishment are of left wing politics. Left wing politics is a threat to them in a way that right wing politics isn't. The establishment in the UK would sooner pivot to extreme right wing parties like Reform than tolerate a left of centre political party getting close to power. That's because ultimately the likes of Reform fully intend to keep lining the pockets of the wealthy and they'll throw in a healthy dose of eroding workers' rights and general protection of human rights to boot. The price to pay? Just a bit of demonising foreign folk and the speeding up of the erosion of the fabric of the country. Worth is to keep the grift going.
So in short, it seems Polanski is a bit of a berk. Personally, the Greens are the party most closely aligned to my own politics so I'll probably vote for them because I tend to vote for the party rather than the leader. But people really should also question why every tiny bone on every skeleton in Polanski's closet gets pored over in a way that doesn't happen to really dangerous leaders like Farage. And if people are joining in the amplification then that's their choice but they should reflect on why they're doing it (to such a great extent) and whose interests it serves. Basically, it can be true that Polanski is a bit of an eejit and that this is something of a witch-hunt, it's not an either/or situation. |
to summarise: polanski is a bit of a berk - vote green - and the press are being very mean by focusing of his proven lack of judgement, but look at farage. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Polanski on 12:13 - May 6 with 778 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Polanski on 12:05 - May 6 by Herbivore |
My take, Polanski has said and done some daft things that make me have question marks over his character. However, this holds true of pretty much all of the leaders of the current political parties in England. What is interesting is the traction, the amplifying, and the vitriol that comes with every grain of dirt dug up on a left wing leader. Last week the BBC didn't have anything up on Farage's undeclared £5m donation on their main news pages after the story had broken. They rarely give the main headlines to the various shadiness he's involved in or the scandals that continually hit his party and their candidates.
I think it's quite telling how terrified the media and the wealthy establishment are of left wing politics. Left wing politics is a threat to them in a way that right wing politics isn't. The establishment in the UK would sooner pivot to extreme right wing parties like Reform than tolerate a left of centre political party getting close to power. That's because ultimately the likes of Reform fully intend to keep lining the pockets of the wealthy and they'll throw in a healthy dose of eroding workers' rights and general protection of human rights to boot. The price to pay? Just a bit of demonising foreign folk and the speeding up of the erosion of the fabric of the country. Worth is to keep the grift going.
So in short, it seems Polanski is a bit of a berk. Personally, the Greens are the party most closely aligned to my own politics so I'll probably vote for them because I tend to vote for the party rather than the leader. But people really should also question why every tiny bone on every skeleton in Polanski's closet gets pored over in a way that doesn't happen to really dangerous leaders like Farage. And if people are joining in the amplification then that's their choice but they should reflect on why they're doing it (to such a great extent) and whose interests it serves. Basically, it can be true that Polanski is a bit of an eejit and that this is something of a witch-hunt, it's not an either/or situation. |
Regarding your last point. Farage's past has been poured over to the extent that we know he was a racist and rabid antisemite as far back as his school days. | |
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| Polanski on 12:26 - May 6 with 727 views | Herbivore |
| Polanski on 12:13 - May 6 by lowhouseblue |
to summarise: polanski is a bit of a berk - vote green - and the press are being very mean by focusing of his proven lack of judgement, but look at farage. |
You won't put ChatGPT out of a job. | |
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| Polanski on 12:34 - May 6 with 688 views | DJR |
| Polanski on 12:11 - May 6 by Ryorry |
Would it be too much to ask the “Green” party to focus on the issues that attracted so many of us to them & got us to join them originally, ie “green”/environmental issues ? |
The Greens though have always been a mix of environmentalism and left wing politics, and it is not obvious to me that they have or will ditch the "green" aspects of their being, their policies being a decision for members, so far as I am aware.
And for what it is worth, here is the Ipswich Green Party manifesto for the local elections.
https://ipswich.greenparty.org [Post edited 6 May 12:37]
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| Polanski on 12:57 - May 6 with 611 views | WestStanderLaLaLa |
| Polanski on 12:10 - May 6 by GlasgowBlue |
Is it a hatchet job though?
The media didn't force him to lie and say he was a spokesperson for the Red Cross jhe. standing for deputy leader.
The media didn't force him to say he could make women's tits grow bigger through hypnosis.
The media didn't force him to minimise antisemitism against the British Jewish during a period when they are facing relentless attacks.
The media didn't force him to take in all of the people thrown out of the Labour party to the extent that two of his candidates have been arrested for hate speech against Jews and a further 40 candidates are under investigation for antisemitism.
At least the traditional Greens are starting to push back against their party being highjacked. Sadly too late.
https://www.thetimes.com/uk/po |
Full quote
“I'm concerned about rising antisemitic attacks. We saw arson attacks on ambulances for instance and we know that increasingly jewish communities are feeling unsafe. There’s a conversation to be had about whether it’s a perception of unsafety or whether it’s actual unsafety, but neither are acceptable”
Has been reframed
“There’s a conversation to be had about whether it’s a perception of unsafety or whether it’s actual unsafety”
I’d say that’s an example where he’s been unfairly treated. |  |
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| Polanski on 13:10 - May 6 with 553 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Polanski on 12:57 - May 6 by WestStanderLaLaLa |
Full quote
“I'm concerned about rising antisemitic attacks. We saw arson attacks on ambulances for instance and we know that increasingly jewish communities are feeling unsafe. There’s a conversation to be had about whether it’s a perception of unsafety or whether it’s actual unsafety, but neither are acceptable”
Has been reframed
“There’s a conversation to be had about whether it’s a perception of unsafety or whether it’s actual unsafety”
I’d say that’s an example where he’s been unfairly treated. |
There is no conversation to be had. It is actual unsafety
Then there was the absolutely outrageous statement on Sky News on Sunday. When he was challenged about playing down the antisemitism in the recent stabbing of two Jewish men in Golders Green he said that a Muslim man was also stabbed prior to the Golders Green attack. [Post edited 6 May 13:15]
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| Polanski on 13:43 - May 6 with 472 views | Ryorry |
| Polanski on 12:34 - May 6 by DJR |
The Greens though have always been a mix of environmentalism and left wing politics, and it is not obvious to me that they have or will ditch the "green" aspects of their being, their policies being a decision for members, so far as I am aware.
And for what it is worth, here is the Ipswich Green Party manifesto for the local elections.
https://ipswich.greenparty.org [Post edited 6 May 12:37]
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Maybe I haven't been paying enough attention, but I never hear him mention environmental issues though.
He has the gift of the gab & the platform now - it really shouldn't be beyond him to say something along the lines of "I've made some stupid mistakes in the past but have learned from them; can we please now move on and talk about the larger issues of environmental concern ..." etc. | |
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| Polanski on 14:05 - May 6 with 423 views | DJR |
| Polanski on 13:43 - May 6 by Ryorry |
Maybe I haven't been paying enough attention, but I never hear him mention environmental issues though.
He has the gift of the gab & the platform now - it really shouldn't be beyond him to say something along the lines of "I've made some stupid mistakes in the past but have learned from them; can we please now move on and talk about the larger issues of environmental concern ..." etc. |
From what I've seen and heard he has been under constant attack and thus not able to properly advocate policies.
And if Green policies do come up, it's things like the legalisation of drugs or its economic policies which are then used to beat him and the Greens.
As an aside, I was looking at the Wikipedia page on the German Greens, a country where the Greens have been a force for many years. There the Greens have never got more than 14% of the vote, and I can't see that figure ever being beaten in this country.
But the assumption in the way that the Greens are criticised here is that the Greens will be the only or main party in government and thus able to implement their policies, when the best they could hope for is a minority place in a coalition government with the prospect of getting a couple of their policies accepted, and that probably only under PR.
Indeed, Nick Robinson even asked Polanski this morning if he thought he was ready to be Prime Minister, when that just ain't ever going to happen.
For my own part (and leaving aside any missteps on the part of Polanski) I think there are two things going on here in all this, one an attempt by or on behalf of Labour to prevent people voting for the Greens, and the other an attempt by the right wing media to get people not wanting to vote for Starmer to vote Reform rather than Green because by all accounts those switching away from Starmer are going in one of those two directions.
Indeed, Reform go into the polls with the heat completely off them so far as I can see, and with papers like the Mail and Telegraph not even reporting their detention camp plans.
Nigel must very pleased with the way things have panned out. [Post edited 6 May 14:11]
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| Polanski on 14:32 - May 6 with 368 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Polanski on 13:43 - May 6 by Ryorry |
Maybe I haven't been paying enough attention, but I never hear him mention environmental issues though.
He has the gift of the gab & the platform now - it really shouldn't be beyond him to say something along the lines of "I've made some stupid mistakes in the past but have learned from them; can we please now move on and talk about the larger issues of environmental concern ..." etc. |
What I take away from this thread, and views I’ve seen on other media, is that those who would be considered as genuine greens and people who concerned about the environment aren’t particular enamoured by Polanski. Whereas those who were attracted to the left wing popularism of Corbyn are more attracted to him and the current trajectory of the Green Party. | |
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