| Starmer & political instability 20:50 - May 11 with 3601 views | Zx1988 |
If Starmer does end up either resigning or being pushed, I presume Novgorod Nigel's handlers will be rubbing their hands with glee, at having caused even more political instability in the UK, no? |  |
| |  |
| Starmer & political instability on 08:56 - May 13 with 932 views | baxterbasics |
Prime minister at the next election by baxterbasics 13 May 8:54My opinion, - again, as no fan of Starmer - I think it would be better for the country if his MPs (and also the media) pipe down and let him get on with it. There's no obvious successor waiting in the wings (no quick route for Burnham) and all this speculation and infighting and instability at the top is not helpful. We need a period of stable boring governance, even if that means he's little more than a caretaker PM. We've had this nonsense from both sides pretty much since Cameron resigned. Stop deposing leaders mid-cycle.
|  |
| |
| Starmer & political instability on 08:57 - May 13 with 921 views | GlasgowBlue |
I’ve read this thread two or three times and thought about posting but had hoped someone would point out the bleedin’ obvious. For someone known for their hot takes this your hottest yet.
It’s not nasty Nigel’s fault that Starmer appointed Mandelson as US Ambassador, causing a chain of events that saw Labour break out into civil war a couple of months ago, with Andy Burnham’s failed bid to get back into Parliament via the Denton by election to stand against Starmer in a leadership election.
It’s not nasty Nigel’s fault that Wes Streeting and Angela Rayner have been on manoeuvres since then, openly courting support if Labour performed badly in the local elections.
It’s not nasty Nigel’s fault that Labour lost nearly 1500 council seats across England, Wales and Scotland, with 300 of those going to the Greens.
It’s not nasty Nigel’s fault that Labour lost wales to Plaid for the first time in over a century.
It is in the hands of Labour MP’s whether the country is plunged into more political instability. They have a choice whether to support their leader or not. Not nasty Nigel who seems to be very much in your head. |  |
| |
| Starmer & political instability on 09:26 - May 13 with 878 views | flykickingbybgunn |
| Starmer & political instability on 08:15 - May 13 by DJR |
The issue though, whether fair or not, is that an awful lot of people have a visceral hatred of Starmer and I can't see that ever changing.
Interestingly, John McTernan, former director of political operations for Blair and thus no lefty, believes that Labour got into the current mess by blocking Burnham which enabled the Greens to win the Gorton by-election and thus gain credibility and momentum which carried forward into the local elections.
His view is that the only hope for the Labour Party, and to defeat Reform, is Burnham, and that is a view I share.
And here's an extract from something he wrote yesterday.
"The size of Reform gains across England concealed a fundamental fact – the progressive bloc of voters is still by some way the largest in the UK. The BBC’s projected national share of the vote gives it 57 per cent of the vote compared to the combined 43 per cent of Reform and the Tories. That should mean the dominance of progressive parties and politics, yet the even split – 17 per cent Labour, 18 per cent Greens, 16 per cent Lib Dems [and 6 per cent others] – means they cannibalise each other’s support.
t’s not a case of Labour “moving to the left” – this is already a left wing government with its signature achievements coming from the soft left – Louise Haigh’s railway nationalization, Angela Rayner’s workers’ rights and renters rights, and Ed Miliband’s green transition. It’s more the need – to adapt the words of James Brown – “say it loud, we’re soft left and we’re proud!”
In the thirties, bank robber Willie Sutton made an important observation. Quizzed by the FBI about why he had robbed so many banks, he replied “That’s where the money is!” Labour need to obey “Sutton’s Law” – go where the votes are! Only two per cent of Reform voters say that they would be willing to listen to the Labour party again. The ones who used to be Labour have been on a decade’s long journey that started with the Brexit referendum. Voters who have gone Green have just switched but Scotland has shown that a change can become a habit.
To win a game, you need your best playmaker on the field. After two years in government Labour needs a Cabinet member who is listened to when he speaks. In pubs, at football matches, when he is spotted Andy Burnham is asked for selfies by fans. That is the regular expression of the fact he has positive approval ratings.
Time to bring Andy back. Now!" [Post edited 13 May 8:30]
|
Well said DJR and Glasgow.
I could not agree more. |  | | |
| Starmer & political instability on 09:39 - May 13 with 846 views | Benters |
| Starmer & political instability on 08:57 - May 13 by GlasgowBlue |
I’ve read this thread two or three times and thought about posting but had hoped someone would point out the bleedin’ obvious. For someone known for their hot takes this your hottest yet.
It’s not nasty Nigel’s fault that Starmer appointed Mandelson as US Ambassador, causing a chain of events that saw Labour break out into civil war a couple of months ago, with Andy Burnham’s failed bid to get back into Parliament via the Denton by election to stand against Starmer in a leadership election.
It’s not nasty Nigel’s fault that Wes Streeting and Angela Rayner have been on manoeuvres since then, openly courting support if Labour performed badly in the local elections.
It’s not nasty Nigel’s fault that Labour lost nearly 1500 council seats across England, Wales and Scotland, with 300 of those going to the Greens.
It’s not nasty Nigel’s fault that Labour lost wales to Plaid for the first time in over a century.
It is in the hands of Labour MP’s whether the country is plunged into more political instability. They have a choice whether to support their leader or not. Not nasty Nigel who seems to be very much in your head. |
Excellent work   |  |
| |
| Starmer & political instability on 11:01 - May 13 with 782 views | FoghornGleghorn |
| Starmer & political instability on 09:39 - May 13 by Benters |
Excellent work |
Usual doomed effort to engage: is it that you don’t trust anyone and are happy to gamble, or do you actually think Farage is trustworthy? If so, why do you? | | | |
| Starmer & political instability on 11:13 - May 13 with 746 views | WeWereZombies |
| Starmer & political instability on 08:15 - May 13 by DJR |
The issue though, whether fair or not, is that an awful lot of people have a visceral hatred of Starmer and I can't see that ever changing.
Interestingly, John McTernan, former director of political operations for Blair and thus no lefty, believes that Labour got into the current mess by blocking Burnham which enabled the Greens to win the Gorton by-election and thus gain credibility and momentum which carried forward into the local elections.
His view is that the only hope for the Labour Party, and to defeat Reform, is Burnham, and that is a view I share.
And here's an extract from something he wrote yesterday.
"The size of Reform gains across England concealed a fundamental fact – the progressive bloc of voters is still by some way the largest in the UK. The BBC’s projected national share of the vote gives it 57 per cent of the vote compared to the combined 43 per cent of Reform and the Tories. That should mean the dominance of progressive parties and politics, yet the even split – 17 per cent Labour, 18 per cent Greens, 16 per cent Lib Dems [and 6 per cent others] – means they cannibalise each other’s support.
t’s not a case of Labour “moving to the left” – this is already a left wing government with its signature achievements coming from the soft left – Louise Haigh’s railway nationalization, Angela Rayner’s workers’ rights and renters rights, and Ed Miliband’s green transition. It’s more the need – to adapt the words of James Brown – “say it loud, we’re soft left and we’re proud!”
In the thirties, bank robber Willie Sutton made an important observation. Quizzed by the FBI about why he had robbed so many banks, he replied “That’s where the money is!” Labour need to obey “Sutton’s Law” – go where the votes are! Only two per cent of Reform voters say that they would be willing to listen to the Labour party again. The ones who used to be Labour have been on a decade’s long journey that started with the Brexit referendum. Voters who have gone Green have just switched but Scotland has shown that a change can become a habit.
To win a game, you need your best playmaker on the field. After two years in government Labour needs a Cabinet member who is listened to when he speaks. In pubs, at football matches, when he is spotted Andy Burnham is asked for selfies by fans. That is the regular expression of the fact he has positive approval ratings.
Time to bring Andy back. Now!" [Post edited 13 May 8:30]
|
A tacit and managed procedure to see if the majority of the party wanted Burnham (and that being a Burnham who demonstrated a willingness to lead through a set of policies that would become the manifesto for the next election) would be the most constructive change of leader our state has seen since the Glorious Revolution of 1688. |  |
| |
| Starmer & political instability on 12:40 - May 13 with 685 views | J2BLUE |
| Starmer & political instability on 08:56 - May 13 by baxterbasics |
Prime minister at the next election by baxterbasics 13 May 8:54My opinion, - again, as no fan of Starmer - I think it would be better for the country if his MPs (and also the media) pipe down and let him get on with it. There's no obvious successor waiting in the wings (no quick route for Burnham) and all this speculation and infighting and instability at the top is not helpful. We need a period of stable boring governance, even if that means he's little more than a caretaker PM. We've had this nonsense from both sides pretty much since Cameron resigned. Stop deposing leaders mid-cycle.
|
This. I am becoming increasingly convinced that Reform are going to be the next government. The PM job for the two main parties is almost an impossible task these days with multiple factions. The Greens and Reform at least have a united front. Labour should have planned behind the scenes for Burnham to replace Starmer 12-18 months before the next election.
Our political system is so broken. It's purely party first politics from every single party these days. As soon as another PM comes in there will be plotting against them.
As for Streeting, he seems like another Jenrick to me. Not with ideology but being another bland uncharismatic man who isn't going to inspire anyone. As sad as it is, it's probably personality that counts more than policies in the battle with Farage.
Time for people to start preparing for a Reform government and taking any measures necessary to protect themselves. |  | | |
| Starmer & political instability on 12:42 - May 13 with 670 views | DJR |
| Starmer & political instability on 12:40 - May 13 by J2BLUE |
This. I am becoming increasingly convinced that Reform are going to be the next government. The PM job for the two main parties is almost an impossible task these days with multiple factions. The Greens and Reform at least have a united front. Labour should have planned behind the scenes for Burnham to replace Starmer 12-18 months before the next election.
Our political system is so broken. It's purely party first politics from every single party these days. As soon as another PM comes in there will be plotting against them.
As for Streeting, he seems like another Jenrick to me. Not with ideology but being another bland uncharismatic man who isn't going to inspire anyone. As sad as it is, it's probably personality that counts more than policies in the battle with Farage.
Time for people to start preparing for a Reform government and taking any measures necessary to protect themselves. |
I certainly agree that Streeting is not the answer not least because he is so tied up with the current direction of the party. And he is yet another London MP which ain't going to cut it in the north.
I also fear like you that we are sleepwalking into a Reform government. [Post edited 13 May 12:43]
|  | | |
Login to get fewer ads
| Starmer & political instability on 13:47 - May 13 with 617 views | leitrimblue |
| Starmer & political instability on 12:42 - May 13 by DJR |
I certainly agree that Streeting is not the answer not least because he is so tied up with the current direction of the party. And he is yet another London MP which ain't going to cut it in the north.
I also fear like you that we are sleepwalking into a Reform government. [Post edited 13 May 12:43]
|
I'd suggest we've been slowly sleepwalking into a Reform government from before Reform was even formed. The failure of both the 2 main parties to understand, represent or even be able to relate to large swathes of the UK as left an enormous vacuum that Nig as filled.
Don't get me wrong, public schoolboy banker Nig couldn't give a toss if these people live or die. But he as managed to convince many of them that he understands and is willing to represent them. Something the big 2 parties have chose not to do [Post edited 13 May 13:54]
|  | | |
| Starmer & political instability on 20:45 - May 13 with 494 views | flykickingbybgunn |
The purpose of a leader is to lead.
Starmer has not lead, he has reacted.
He has no overall vision or idea of where he is taking us and should go.
Even a bad plan, well carried out, will succeed.
But he has NO PLAN and will fail because of it.
Correction. IS failing because of it.
It is a shame for him, but most of all for us. | | | |
| Starmer & political instability on 21:02 - May 13 with 465 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Starmer & political instability on 20:45 - May 13 by flykickingbybgunn |
The purpose of a leader is to lead.
Starmer has not lead, he has reacted.
He has no overall vision or idea of where he is taking us and should go.
Even a bad plan, well carried out, will succeed.
But he has NO PLAN and will fail because of it.
Correction. IS failing because of it.
It is a shame for him, but most of all for us. |
That sounds a lot like vague soundbites from youtube.
What does it actually mean?
So far, we have reform of rentals, increase in NHS funding, a firm position on Trump's war, improving Euro relations to improve trade and ability to cooperate on immigration etc etc.
What happens here is youtube tell you there is no plan and you accept is as a fact. | |
| |
| Starmer & political instability on 21:09 - May 13 with 449 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Starmer & political instability on 08:57 - May 13 by GlasgowBlue |
I’ve read this thread two or three times and thought about posting but had hoped someone would point out the bleedin’ obvious. For someone known for their hot takes this your hottest yet.
It’s not nasty Nigel’s fault that Starmer appointed Mandelson as US Ambassador, causing a chain of events that saw Labour break out into civil war a couple of months ago, with Andy Burnham’s failed bid to get back into Parliament via the Denton by election to stand against Starmer in a leadership election.
It’s not nasty Nigel’s fault that Wes Streeting and Angela Rayner have been on manoeuvres since then, openly courting support if Labour performed badly in the local elections.
It’s not nasty Nigel’s fault that Labour lost nearly 1500 council seats across England, Wales and Scotland, with 300 of those going to the Greens.
It’s not nasty Nigel’s fault that Labour lost wales to Plaid for the first time in over a century.
It is in the hands of Labour MP’s whether the country is plunged into more political instability. They have a choice whether to support their leader or not. Not nasty Nigel who seems to be very much in your head. |
So you think they should back Starmer!! Perhaps you fancy a bit of Nige! |  |
| |
| Starmer & political instability on 22:38 - May 13 with 387 views | reusersfreekicks |
| Starmer & political instability on 12:40 - May 13 by J2BLUE |
This. I am becoming increasingly convinced that Reform are going to be the next government. The PM job for the two main parties is almost an impossible task these days with multiple factions. The Greens and Reform at least have a united front. Labour should have planned behind the scenes for Burnham to replace Starmer 12-18 months before the next election.
Our political system is so broken. It's purely party first politics from every single party these days. As soon as another PM comes in there will be plotting against them.
As for Streeting, he seems like another Jenrick to me. Not with ideology but being another bland uncharismatic man who isn't going to inspire anyone. As sad as it is, it's probably personality that counts more than policies in the battle with Farage.
Time for people to start preparing for a Reform government and taking any measures necessary to protect themselves. |
Not sure Streeting has been opportunistically protesting outside refugee Hotels or more generally promoting hatred and intolerance a la Jenrick [Post edited 13 May 22:38]
|  | | |
| Starmer & political instability on 04:11 - May 14 with 347 views | Benters |
I believe’No idea Kier’ is making a great job of ruining the country himself.
He’s the most hated PM in British history,yet he still clings on to power,like a dodgy poo on the side of the toilet bowl after 5 pints of Ghostship and a curry.
Starmer Out! | |
| |
| Starmer & political instability on 06:28 - May 14 with 302 views | Benters |
| Starmer & political instability on 11:01 - May 13 by FoghornGleghorn |
Usual doomed effort to engage: is it that you don’t trust anyone and are happy to gamble, or do you actually think Farage is trustworthy? If so, why do you? |
I thought that was a great post by Glassers if that’s ok oh wise one. | |
| |
| Starmer & political instability on 08:58 - May 14 with 244 views | WeWereZombies |
| Starmer & political instability on 04:11 - May 14 by Benters |
I believe’No idea Kier’ is making a great job of ruining the country himself.
He’s the most hated PM in British history,yet he still clings on to power,like a dodgy poo on the side of the toilet bowl after 5 pints of Ghostship and a curry.
Starmer Out! |
The most hated PM in British History ? I didn't think he had enough character for that...according to some. I certainly got a sense of dislike and disappointment about him when I was door knocking a couple of weeks ago but I think most of us can recall the visceral hatred some had, rightly or wrongly, for Margaret Thatcher and see that Starmer is a long way off that level of political engagement. | |
| |
| Starmer & political instability on 09:06 - May 14 with 234 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Starmer & political instability on 12:42 - May 13 by DJR |
I certainly agree that Streeting is not the answer not least because he is so tied up with the current direction of the party. And he is yet another London MP which ain't going to cut it in the north.
I also fear like you that we are sleepwalking into a Reform government. [Post edited 13 May 12:43]
|
The fact that the parliamentary party even think Streeting should be considered, to my mind, highlights the disconnect between them and rank & file members. Labour were obliterated in NE England
We aren’t just sleepwalking into a Reform government Starmer has provided them with a meaningless slogan “ Time for change”. |  |
| |
| Starmer & political instability on 09:08 - May 14 with 216 views | NthQldITFC |
That Tracy Brabin talks a lot of sense. Anyone here live in West Yorkshire? |  |
| |
| Starmer & political instability on 09:56 - May 14 with 168 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Starmer & political instability on 09:06 - May 14 by Pinewoodblue |
The fact that the parliamentary party even think Streeting should be considered, to my mind, highlights the disconnect between them and rank & file members. Labour were obliterated in NE England
We aren’t just sleepwalking into a Reform government Starmer has provided them with a meaningless slogan “ Time for change”. |
Al Carns has written an essay in New Statesman that includes the following "Working-class voters have not simply left Labour. Many feel Labour stopped understanding their lives and so they looked elsewhere."
It is behind a paywall but you can get access for £1. | |
| |
| Starmer & political instability on 10:12 - May 14 with 148 views | NthQldITFC |
| Starmer & political instability on 08:57 - May 13 by GlasgowBlue |
I’ve read this thread two or three times and thought about posting but had hoped someone would point out the bleedin’ obvious. For someone known for their hot takes this your hottest yet.
It’s not nasty Nigel’s fault that Starmer appointed Mandelson as US Ambassador, causing a chain of events that saw Labour break out into civil war a couple of months ago, with Andy Burnham’s failed bid to get back into Parliament via the Denton by election to stand against Starmer in a leadership election.
It’s not nasty Nigel’s fault that Wes Streeting and Angela Rayner have been on manoeuvres since then, openly courting support if Labour performed badly in the local elections.
It’s not nasty Nigel’s fault that Labour lost nearly 1500 council seats across England, Wales and Scotland, with 300 of those going to the Greens.
It’s not nasty Nigel’s fault that Labour lost wales to Plaid for the first time in over a century.
It is in the hands of Labour MP’s whether the country is plunged into more political instability. They have a choice whether to support their leader or not. Not nasty Nigel who seems to be very much in your head. |
All of that is true, but it's the consequences of nice-but-ineffective Starmer's two years of dithering that we're all worried about, and if those consequences are Far*ge and his party of hit-and-run UFO-fearing teenagers and strutting, fck-witted Captain Mainwarings, then the whole country needs to bear in mind those consequences very, very much and act accordingly in rebooting the Labour party pretty bloody sharpish.
If that's to be portrayed as just he's 'in your head' that seems to me to be playing into the hands of a very dangerous individual who's been fairly successfully popularising the acceptance of the Tr*mp playbook here. | |
| |
| Starmer & political instability on 10:39 - May 14 with 117 views | FoghornGleghorn |
| Starmer & political instability on 06:28 - May 14 by Benters |
I thought that was a great post by Glassers if that’s ok oh wise one. |
I couldn't give a toss about Glassers' post, you have every right to think it was great, my question was nothing to do with that. I'm asking out of genuine curiosity what makes you think Nigel Farage is to be trusted, because I would love to understand what is driving people in this direction. But equally, feel free not to bother, "oh wise one", I'm pretty sure I know what I'm getting into. [Post edited 14 May 10:40]
| | | |
| Starmer & political instability on 10:45 - May 14 with 105 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Starmer & political instability on 10:39 - May 14 by FoghornGleghorn |
I couldn't give a toss about Glassers' post, you have every right to think it was great, my question was nothing to do with that. I'm asking out of genuine curiosity what makes you think Nigel Farage is to be trusted, because I would love to understand what is driving people in this direction. But equally, feel free not to bother, "oh wise one", I'm pretty sure I know what I'm getting into. [Post edited 14 May 10:40]
|
I have to assume that not even Farage's biggest fans would say they can trust him. They just think he will sock it to the liberals and foreigners in a way they agree with and that is what counts.
Trust would be a very strange thing to give someone who hides £5m donations, never turns up in his constituency, repeatedly took EU money but rarely turned up for his job there, rarely turns up to parliament, rarely engages with parliamentary processes etc etc | |
| |
| Starmer & political instability on 10:48 - May 14 with 99 views | FoghornGleghorn |
| Starmer & political instability on 10:45 - May 14 by redrickstuhaart |
I have to assume that not even Farage's biggest fans would say they can trust him. They just think he will sock it to the liberals and foreigners in a way they agree with and that is what counts.
Trust would be a very strange thing to give someone who hides £5m donations, never turns up in his constituency, repeatedly took EU money but rarely turned up for his job there, rarely turns up to parliament, rarely engages with parliamentary processes etc etc |
Exactly...I think we all know really, don't we. | | | |
| Starmer & political instability on 10:51 - May 14 with 95 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Starmer & political instability on 08:56 - May 13 by baxterbasics |
Prime minister at the next election by baxterbasics 13 May 8:54My opinion, - again, as no fan of Starmer - I think it would be better for the country if his MPs (and also the media) pipe down and let him get on with it. There's no obvious successor waiting in the wings (no quick route for Burnham) and all this speculation and infighting and instability at the top is not helpful. We need a period of stable boring governance, even if that means he's little more than a caretaker PM. We've had this nonsense from both sides pretty much since Cameron resigned. Stop deposing leaders mid-cycle.
|
Possibly the only current MP who would be an option is Miliband, if he wants it and I'm not sure he does. He's the most favoured of the incumbent MPs by their membership (I think, or at least he has been by some distance for quite a while).
If Miliband's not an option, they'd be nuts to move too soon onto someone like Streeting imo. If their supposed saviour is Burnham, to move now before he's got the opportunity to join a leadership contest would put us back where we are now and likely lead to another round of infighting if/when he finds a seat (I'm not convinced he's the saviour, he's like Kayden Jackson - he's got better then longer he's been out of the team). |  |
| |
| Starmer & political instability on 10:59 - May 14 with 74 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Starmer & political instability on 21:02 - May 13 by redrickstuhaart |
That sounds a lot like vague soundbites from youtube.
What does it actually mean?
So far, we have reform of rentals, increase in NHS funding, a firm position on Trump's war, improving Euro relations to improve trade and ability to cooperate on immigration etc etc.
What happens here is youtube tell you there is no plan and you accept is as a fact. |
He' not very tactical and strategic and the resignation letters seem to criticise him for being too cautious and reactive, so I think there's some truth in the accusations that he's not led.
They are doing some good stuff, so yeah it's frustrating on the one hand. But their overall direction/message is a bit unclear and the many u-turns have undermined them and reinforced the view that he's not a leader.
They should be bolder with the massive majority they have imo. Like on Europe, it's fine what they're saying about resetting the relationship on collaboration, but we should be well beyond that already. There's no reason for him to stick religiously to red lines on no SM/CU discussions when he's lost the red wall Brexiteer vote anyway. It's an example of where one policy is undermining their supposed main goal of growth (their are other examples too). It's all a bit muddled. | |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
