| ‘Two Year Kier’ 05:25 - Jun 23 with 15144 views | Benters |
Heard that one this morning  |  |
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| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 12:09 - Jun 24 with 1056 views | positivity |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 12:02 - Jun 24 by jasondozzell |
He's quite correct.
We're witnessing the death throws of Blairism, New Labour and centrism.
Why do you think Burnham's pathway has been so smooth? Look who resigned for him and join the dots.
Purnell another sign.
There's a reason he lost twice in previous leadership elections. He's a career politician at a time when we need radical solutions. |
what are your radical solutions jase? |  |
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| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 12:10 - Jun 24 with 1056 views | StokieBlue |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 11:16 - Jun 24 by Churchman |
The problem with data is that it is often inaccurate, based on the wrong questions or published in the face of conflicting data because it serves political purpose. Information withheld, well sourced truths covered up, bad news buried, heads demanded on platters to save their own, information (sometimes misinformation) fed to the press to create a story and mug off the plebs.
Politicians have been doing it for years. The first time I saw it in the raw was at the time of the Child Benefit Details loss and the financial crisis around 2008. The dying Labour government used every trick in the book as they drowned under the weight of their own incompetence.
Then we had the coalition and the lies spewed to justify their crazy austerity (ideological) programme. Then the nonsense of Scottish referendum followed by Brexit which took the insanity to new heights. You’ll never believe what ‘data’, facts and statistics were produced for that. Some of it by me! It’s not hard to understand why I’m skeptical about facts and statics along with those who produce them.
On to Starmer. I don’t know much about him tbh. In my time he was in opposition and all I saw was his HoC apposition to Brexit. He was not involved in committees.
A couple of years ago this.
https://www.independent.co.uk/
He allegedly racked up 3x the level of expenses to that of his predecessor. So much for thinking of the country there. I doubt he stopped when he got the big job and the PMs chauffeur driven car. I doubt the man has done anything illegal but it’s clear he enjoys the good things in life, especially if they are free.
As a PM? Utterly useless. A sharp suit, winning smile and designer sunglasses doesn’t make him a good leader. He isn’t. Is he worse than his predecessors? No. But that doesn’t make him any good. Why do I think this? Aside from directly telling porkies on defence or at best disguising the truth, every action he and his government has taken has been about ‘the party’ and from that themselves. The people of this country? They’ve no interest whatsoever. Only in those they perceive will support them.
Will he be missed? Not in the least. Let’s face it, we’d be better off if they put Larry the Downing Street cat in charge.
On the subject of this forum, everyone is entitled to a view. If it’s restricted to those that support a particular line it becomes a boring waste of time. |
The data was published by a university, not for a political purpose. Did you look at it?
Nobody has said people can't have a view, however if that view is clear misinformation then it should be challenged. Seems quite a few in here want to shut down that challenge under the premise of all views are equal which I don't agree with.
SB |  |
| Avatar - M101 - Pinwheel Galaxy |
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| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 12:11 - Jun 24 with 1028 views | lowhouseblue |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 12:02 - Jun 24 by jasondozzell |
He's quite correct.
We're witnessing the death throws of Blairism, New Labour and centrism.
Why do you think Burnham's pathway has been so smooth? Look who resigned for him and join the dots.
Purnell another sign.
There's a reason he lost twice in previous leadership elections. He's a career politician at a time when we need radical solutions. |
just to cheer you up
https://metro.co.uk/wp-content |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 12:12 - Jun 24 with 1039 views | balcombeblue |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 12:02 - Jun 24 by jasondozzell |
He's quite correct.
We're witnessing the death throws of Blairism, New Labour and centrism.
Why do you think Burnham's pathway has been so smooth? Look who resigned for him and join the dots.
Purnell another sign.
There's a reason he lost twice in previous leadership elections. He's a career politician at a time when we need radical solutions. |
Thank You.
I could be cruel and show the clip of Burnham saying that Israel will be the first country he visits on becoming Labour leader.
Or his economic rhetoric that causes bond market spooks. Given he has no economic or business experience, his choice of chancellor could be concerning. | | | |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 12:13 - Jun 24 with 1016 views | GlasgowBlue |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 12:02 - Jun 24 by jasondozzell |
He's quite correct.
We're witnessing the death throws of Blairism, New Labour and centrism.
Why do you think Burnham's pathway has been so smooth? Look who resigned for him and join the dots.
Purnell another sign.
There's a reason he lost twice in previous leadership elections. He's a career politician at a time when we need radical solutions. |
That did make me chuckle seeing Burnham is going to appoint James Parnell, the most Blairite of Blairites, as his Chief of Staff. Streeting being touted as Chancellor and Mahmoud continuing as Home Secretary.
There are an awful lot of people on the left about to be bitterly disappointed in the Messiah. |  |
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| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 12:14 - Jun 24 with 1024 views | balcombeblue |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 12:10 - Jun 24 by StokieBlue |
The data was published by a university, not for a political purpose. Did you look at it?
Nobody has said people can't have a view, however if that view is clear misinformation then it should be challenged. Seems quite a few in here want to shut down that challenge under the premise of all views are equal which I don't agree with.
SB |
University data and publications are not necessarily independent of political bias. Although I don't think that's likely in this case. | | | |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 17:53 - Jun 24 with 874 views | DJR |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 12:13 - Jun 24 by GlasgowBlue |
That did make me chuckle seeing Burnham is going to appoint James Parnell, the most Blairite of Blairites, as his Chief of Staff. Streeting being touted as Chancellor and Mahmoud continuing as Home Secretary.
There are an awful lot of people on the left about to be bitterly disappointed in the Messiah. |
Purnell is a softy when it comes to welfare. 
In December 2008, Purnell proposed charging interest on crisis loans to the unemployed and pensioners made by the Department for Work and Pensions, which were interest-free, at a rate of up to 26.8% per annum. This was met with great hostility and was blocked by the intervention of Gordon Brown. |  | | |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 18:38 - Jun 24 with 826 views | jasondozzell |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 12:09 - Jun 24 by positivity |
what are your radical solutions jase? |
The death rattle of the centrists! 'well, what are YOUR ideas then?'
Quite seriously, if this is all the centre has left as an argument, surely you can see that it's game over?
Radical solutions first step - an honest conversation about where we are.
Unsurprisingly later steps will need to be thought about rather than back of a fag packet stuff but I would suggest that we actually do need to recognise the neoliberal model so beloved of the Blairites blew up in 2008. |  | | |
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| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 18:39 - Jun 24 with 824 views | jasondozzell |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 12:13 - Jun 24 by GlasgowBlue |
That did make me chuckle seeing Burnham is going to appoint James Parnell, the most Blairite of Blairites, as his Chief of Staff. Streeting being touted as Chancellor and Mahmoud continuing as Home Secretary.
There are an awful lot of people on the left about to be bitterly disappointed in the Messiah. |
Yep.
It's full on Partridge 'they've rebadged it you fool'' territory but that isn't going to stop the centrist dads swooning because AB likes Elbow and has it on his running playlist. | | | |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 18:40 - Jun 24 with 823 views | jasondozzell |
Corbyn derangement syndrome.
What is it about the jam man that so scared you all? | | | |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 18:43 - Jun 24 with 817 views | positivity |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 18:38 - Jun 24 by jasondozzell |
The death rattle of the centrists! 'well, what are YOUR ideas then?'
Quite seriously, if this is all the centre has left as an argument, surely you can see that it's game over?
Radical solutions first step - an honest conversation about where we are.
Unsurprisingly later steps will need to be thought about rather than back of a fag packet stuff but I would suggest that we actually do need to recognise the neoliberal model so beloved of the Blairites blew up in 2008. |
"a conversation", is that the bet you've got? and you criticise burnham for being vague!
still waiting for some of the radical solutions you're crying out for! one will do! | |
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| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 18:48 - Jun 24 with 800 views | GlasgowBlue |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 12:10 - Jun 24 by StokieBlue |
The data was published by a university, not for a political purpose. Did you look at it?
Nobody has said people can't have a view, however if that view is clear misinformation then it should be challenged. Seems quite a few in here want to shut down that challenge under the premise of all views are equal which I don't agree with.
SB |
Nobody is trying to shut down that challenge. But a person is entitled to voice an opinion, so long as it’s not hateful, even if they are talking utter bollox. And other posters are free to tell them they are talking utter bollox without saying that admin should silence them.
In this instance I think a Benters is talking bollox. The numbers are down as published. I’m sure he won’t take offence at me telling him he’s talking bollox. Then again, I’m not telling him that he shouldn’t be allowed to share his opinion on a public message board. | |
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| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 18:52 - Jun 24 with 800 views | Churchman |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 12:10 - Jun 24 by StokieBlue |
The data was published by a university, not for a political purpose. Did you look at it?
Nobody has said people can't have a view, however if that view is clear misinformation then it should be challenged. Seems quite a few in here want to shut down that challenge under the premise of all views are equal which I don't agree with.
SB |
That a University published data does not mean it was not for political purpose or written in a way that reflects the position of the authors. It depends on who, what, where and why.
So for example, I saw a draft of stuff produced in connection with a talked to death subject. I was asked by somebody who remains nameless privately for my views. I said that having been through it (part of my job) I could see political bias in it and a lack of objectivity. Without boring with detail, I was agreed with - on that occasion.
The authors of the work were not civil servants, but contractors. In other words it’s very easy to find material in the modern age that reflects one’s view. That makes it more imperative to consider views that are not yours.
So, if for example you wright something on say astronomy or particularly vaccines, Covid and stuff like that you will find no challenge from me. You just won’t because your knowledge is light years better than mine.
There is other stuff that I might challenge on and I’ll be right or wrong. There will be other things I know I’ll have stronger knowledge than most if not all, including you. But if I’m challenged I’ll read, think about it, research and consider - I still might be wrong.
In other words, however outlandish a view will be, I’ll always consider it, or at least try to. |  | | |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 18:53 - Jun 24 with 794 views | Fenland_Blue |
Who is his mate Lord Ali going to buy clothes for now? |  |
| Up and mainly down, following Town since 88 |
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| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 18:55 - Jun 24 with 782 views | GlasgowBlue |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 18:53 - Jun 24 by Fenland_Blue |
Who is his mate Lord Ali going to buy clothes for now? |
I could do with a new wardrobe if Lord Ali is reading this.
Although I can’t guarantee him 24 hour access to 10 Downing Street and a House of Commons pass. | |
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| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 19:06 - Jun 24 with 769 views | J2BLUE |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 18:38 - Jun 24 by jasondozzell |
The death rattle of the centrists! 'well, what are YOUR ideas then?'
Quite seriously, if this is all the centre has left as an argument, surely you can see that it's game over?
Radical solutions first step - an honest conversation about where we are.
Unsurprisingly later steps will need to be thought about rather than back of a fag packet stuff but I would suggest that we actually do need to recognise the neoliberal model so beloved of the Blairites blew up in 2008. |
Your one idea is an honest conversation. Brilliant stuff. Give us a few things you would like to see in a proper left wing government manifesto.
You probably won't because you either have nothing to offer or you know the public do not support it. |  | | |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 19:14 - Jun 24 with 755 views | redrickstuhaart |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 18:43 - Jun 24 by positivity |
"a conversation", is that the bet you've got? and you criticise burnham for being vague!
still waiting for some of the radical solutions you're crying out for! one will do! |
Its at the level of parody now. | |
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| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 19:16 - Jun 24 with 745 views | jasondozzell |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 18:43 - Jun 24 by positivity |
"a conversation", is that the bet you've got? and you criticise burnham for being vague!
still waiting for some of the radical solutions you're crying out for! one will do! |
Is being arrogant and pompous a prerequisite of joining the centrist club?
How about cancel nurse tuition fee debt, a national care service, set up a UK housebuilding company to compete with the fat cat developers, increase taxes on the super wealthy, build social housing, produce a scheme to tidy provincial towns that have been left behind, end the costly and inefficient outsourcing this country has become addicted to, nationalise water, energy and utilities... | | | |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 19:18 - Jun 24 with 735 views | jasondozzell |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 19:06 - Jun 24 by J2BLUE |
Your one idea is an honest conversation. Brilliant stuff. Give us a few things you would like to see in a proper left wing government manifesto.
You probably won't because you either have nothing to offer or you know the public do not support it. |
Had no idea there are so many centrist dads on here who are ruffled by the idea they may have got things wrong and that their sensible forensic analysis was a nonsense! | | | |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 19:24 - Jun 24 with 710 views | J2BLUE |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 19:18 - Jun 24 by jasondozzell |
Had no idea there are so many centrist dads on here who are ruffled by the idea they may have got things wrong and that their sensible forensic analysis was a nonsense! |
So you have nothing of substance. Just an ideology and a superiority complex. | | | |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 19:26 - Jun 24 with 705 views | jasondozzell |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 19:24 - Jun 24 by J2BLUE |
So you have nothing of substance. Just an ideology and a superiority complex. |
I wouldn't call that list nothing of substance. | | | |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 19:38 - Jun 24 with 677 views | redrickstuhaart |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 19:16 - Jun 24 by jasondozzell |
Is being arrogant and pompous a prerequisite of joining the centrist club?
How about cancel nurse tuition fee debt, a national care service, set up a UK housebuilding company to compete with the fat cat developers, increase taxes on the super wealthy, build social housing, produce a scheme to tidy provincial towns that have been left behind, end the costly and inefficient outsourcing this country has become addicted to, nationalise water, energy and utilities... |
Agree with much of that. How do we achieve it and persuade the current electorate to start voting for such things? | |
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| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 19:45 - Jun 24 with 660 views | MattinLondon |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 19:16 - Jun 24 by jasondozzell |
Is being arrogant and pompous a prerequisite of joining the centrist club?
How about cancel nurse tuition fee debt, a national care service, set up a UK housebuilding company to compete with the fat cat developers, increase taxes on the super wealthy, build social housing, produce a scheme to tidy provincial towns that have been left behind, end the costly and inefficient outsourcing this country has become addicted to, nationalise water, energy and utilities... |
I actually agree with all of that. |  | | |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 19:54 - Jun 24 with 628 views | jasondozzell |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 19:38 - Jun 24 by redrickstuhaart |
Agree with much of that. How do we achieve it and persuade the current electorate to start voting for such things? |
Well that's pretty much the 2019 manifesto which was extremely popular.
Not hard to achieve or get support. Believe in it and argue for it hard. | | | |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 20:26 - Jun 24 with 581 views | redrickstuhaart |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 19:54 - Jun 24 by jasondozzell |
Well that's pretty much the 2019 manifesto which was extremely popular.
Not hard to achieve or get support. Believe in it and argue for it hard. |
Yes- but it didnt work did it?
Because Corbyn had no credibility amongst the people you disdainfully call centrists dads (as if moderateness, economic literacy and fatherhood were bad things...) and because he was a brexiteer, and because he was a little bit too reluctant to condemn terrorists.
They arent going to vote Polanski in at a GE with FPTP.
So influence and pushing for what can be done is the way to go, right? Get a foothold, show the benefits, then move forward? | |
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