| ‘Two Year Kier’ 05:25 - Jun 23 with 15390 views | Benters |
Heard that one this morning  |  |
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| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 08:28 - Jun 25 with 1097 views | StokieBlue |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 07:24 - Jun 25 by Benters |
So basically a few of the legends on here post links etc I have to take that as gospel?
Also I haven’t spread disinformation at all,they are my views,that’s all.
Have a nice day. |
Phil has in the past deleted anti-vax posts that contained misinformation. Should those have also been left up as they were opinions?
If you're not willing to support an assertion where you've accused the researcher's of bending the facts then that's misinformation not an opinion. You should provide a source showing they have done that or retract it as you are accusing people you don't know of being dishonest without evidence and poisoning the well around any future research they may undertake.
There is a difference between opinion and misinformation in my view. Others can and will have an opinion on that opinion.
SB |  |
| Avatar - M101 - Pinwheel Galaxy |
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| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 08:31 - Jun 25 with 1077 views | GlasgowBlue |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 22:58 - Jun 24 by positivity |
there's talking utter bollox which is a normal bentrers post as you say, but wilful disinformation is another.
should be called out, and especially by people who he might be more prone to listen to |
Putting his fingers in his ears and not believing official government statistics is not spreading disinformation.
That’s two of you using that specific phrase to set a false narrative. [Post edited 25 Jun 8:36]
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| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 08:36 - Jun 25 with 1075 views | positivity |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 08:31 - Jun 25 by GlasgowBlue |
Putting his fingers in his ears and not believing official government statistics is not spreading disinformation.
That’s two of you using that specific phrase to set a false narrative. [Post edited 25 Jun 8:36]
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if disbelieving confirmed figures on a highly sensitive topic (which has caused riots and attacks on minority communities) and posting that they're untrue isn't disinformation, then what's your bar? |  |
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| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 08:39 - Jun 25 with 1061 views | positivity |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 07:24 - Jun 25 by Benters |
So basically a few of the legends on here post links etc I have to take that as gospel?
Also I haven’t spread disinformation at all,they are my views,that’s all.
Have a nice day. |
they're not links, they're official figures.
they aren't opinions, they're facts.
how are you backing up your statement that the official figures are "absolute rubbish"?
fine with you spouting your "utter bollox" opinions, happy to argue against them, but if you're trying to discredit facts, then you're heading down the conspiracy theorist route | |
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| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 08:50 - Jun 25 with 1021 views | GlasgowBlue |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 08:36 - Jun 25 by positivity |
if disbelieving confirmed figures on a highly sensitive topic (which has caused riots and attacks on minority communities) and posting that they're untrue isn't disinformation, then what's your bar? |
No. Saying that small boat crossings have doubled since 2025 when in fact they have fallen by 40% is spreading disinformation. Saying “I don’t believe the official figures” is not spreading disinformation.
If somebody posted that the Tories reduced the deficit from £150 billion in 2010 to £45 billion in 2019 and another poster disputed that claim, it would be an ill informed opinion that is there to be shot down. It wouldn’t be spreading disinformation.
I’ll often have a debate with people in my social circle about the economic benefits immigration has brought to the country over the years. Some of my social circle will push back on my narrative. I dont consider them to be spreading disinformation. They just don’t believe the evidence.
Trust in what governments have claimed over the years has been eroded. Some people believe what they want to believe despite the facts staring them in the face.
One last analogy. I’m pro vax. If somebody says to me that they aren’t taking the Covid vaccine because they are worried about side effects and do not believe the governments claim that the vaccination is completely safe, they are not spreading disinformation. If somebody says that they are not taking the vaccination because they heard it doubles your chance of heart attack and makes your bollox grow down bellow your knees then they are.
Edit. Feel free to disagree. That is your opinion. Nit much more I can say on this. [Post edited 25 Jun 8:53]
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| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 08:58 - Jun 25 with 984 views | Benters |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 08:28 - Jun 25 by StokieBlue |
Phil has in the past deleted anti-vax posts that contained misinformation. Should those have also been left up as they were opinions?
If you're not willing to support an assertion where you've accused the researcher's of bending the facts then that's misinformation not an opinion. You should provide a source showing they have done that or retract it as you are accusing people you don't know of being dishonest without evidence and poisoning the well around any future research they may undertake.
There is a difference between opinion and misinformation in my view. Others can and will have an opinion on that opinion.
SB |
But I haven’t posted any thing like that.
And can you seriously tell me every Government has never bent the figures a bit to help there position?
I don’t mean just Labour I mean all Parties they are all the same.
Have a good day. | |
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| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 09:11 - Jun 25 with 939 views | balcombeblue |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 08:50 - Jun 25 by GlasgowBlue |
No. Saying that small boat crossings have doubled since 2025 when in fact they have fallen by 40% is spreading disinformation. Saying “I don’t believe the official figures” is not spreading disinformation.
If somebody posted that the Tories reduced the deficit from £150 billion in 2010 to £45 billion in 2019 and another poster disputed that claim, it would be an ill informed opinion that is there to be shot down. It wouldn’t be spreading disinformation.
I’ll often have a debate with people in my social circle about the economic benefits immigration has brought to the country over the years. Some of my social circle will push back on my narrative. I dont consider them to be spreading disinformation. They just don’t believe the evidence.
Trust in what governments have claimed over the years has been eroded. Some people believe what they want to believe despite the facts staring them in the face.
One last analogy. I’m pro vax. If somebody says to me that they aren’t taking the Covid vaccine because they are worried about side effects and do not believe the governments claim that the vaccination is completely safe, they are not spreading disinformation. If somebody says that they are not taking the vaccination because they heard it doubles your chance of heart attack and makes your bollox grow down bellow your knees then they are.
Edit. Feel free to disagree. That is your opinion. Nit much more I can say on this. [Post edited 25 Jun 8:53]
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Agreed with all that.
I'm not anti-Vax either, but I think it's quite healthy to be engaged in the evidence of whether or not it's a net overall benefit. I don't think it should have been mandated at all and I was against many of the lockdown rules. This was on the basis that I considered them ineffective and detrimental to the long term health/welfare of the population. For this view, many of my friends thought I was a Covid-denier. When 'denier' is thrown at you by people around you that really is concerning as we all know the origins of that insult.
I'm quite similar on the climate. It's changing, there is a significant human cause, but so what? Should we deny opportunities to the developing world? should we temporarily impoverish ourselves in the process? What happens when we reach net zero but nobody else has? All of these are legitimate concerns to raise but are not debated in the public forum.
You can probably add a host of other topics to the list. | | | |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 09:13 - Jun 25 with 935 views | positivity |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 08:50 - Jun 25 by GlasgowBlue |
No. Saying that small boat crossings have doubled since 2025 when in fact they have fallen by 40% is spreading disinformation. Saying “I don’t believe the official figures” is not spreading disinformation.
If somebody posted that the Tories reduced the deficit from £150 billion in 2010 to £45 billion in 2019 and another poster disputed that claim, it would be an ill informed opinion that is there to be shot down. It wouldn’t be spreading disinformation.
I’ll often have a debate with people in my social circle about the economic benefits immigration has brought to the country over the years. Some of my social circle will push back on my narrative. I dont consider them to be spreading disinformation. They just don’t believe the evidence.
Trust in what governments have claimed over the years has been eroded. Some people believe what they want to believe despite the facts staring them in the face.
One last analogy. I’m pro vax. If somebody says to me that they aren’t taking the Covid vaccine because they are worried about side effects and do not believe the governments claim that the vaccination is completely safe, they are not spreading disinformation. If somebody says that they are not taking the vaccination because they heard it doubles your chance of heart attack and makes your bollox grow down bellow your knees then they are.
Edit. Feel free to disagree. That is your opinion. Nit much more I can say on this. [Post edited 25 Jun 8:53]
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i think you're making false comparisons.
comparing reducing the deficit is an economic matter, lots of different figures, lots of different ways of comparing them. this is one easily countable figure.
the volume of the deficit doesn't cause riots in the street or people being firebombed out of their homes.
to take a hypothetical, if you'd posted that the official police figures had shown reported anti-semitic attacks had gone up by 200% and darth (or whoever that odd pro-farage conspiracy theorist who got banned a couple of months ago) said that's absolute rubbish, would you be that sanguine?
i don't think you would, and i'd back you 100% because it increases the danger levels for vulnerable communities.
all i'm saying is play the ball, not the man and don't let benters have an easy ride when he posts his farageista misinformation just because he's an old mate | |
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| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 09:15 - Jun 25 with 923 views | redrickstuhaart |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 08:00 - Jun 25 by balcombeblue |
I'm not sure increasing tax rates any further will work for two reasons.
Firstly, the tax burden is at arguably at the point where any further increases on the people who can actually afford to pay it is going to create a disincentive to work which may cause the tax take to fall. As an example, there is a reverse sweet spot where a number of people pay a very high rate of marginal tax as they start losing their personal allowance and this tax can just be avoided by pension contributions.
Secondly, any further tax increases are just gobbled up into the ever increasing demands of the welfare bill, NHS and debt servicing. Nibbling at the edges, without doing anything structural will make no meaningful difference whatsoever.
So in essence, you get all the negatives without any of the corrections that people are actually arguing for. To that end it becomes a bit spiteful as it attacks a certain type of voter. |
That's classic right wing rhetoric but not very true. If I am taxed a bit more I'm not suddenly going to stop working and then lose more income. Scandinavia is happier healthier and higher taxed than the UK. | |
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| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 09:19 - Jun 25 with 909 views | positivity |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 08:58 - Jun 25 by Benters |
But I haven’t posted any thing like that.
And can you seriously tell me every Government has never bent the figures a bit to help there position?
I don’t mean just Labour I mean all Parties they are all the same.
Have a good day. |
1) they're not figures from labour, do you still believe they're absolute rubbish?
2) all parties are not the same, populist parties like reform and restore are not subject to the same checks and measures and media scrutiny as the more traditional parties as most of their communication is through unfiltered and biased media (or social media)
reform is now starting to get a bit more scrutiny as they've got more popularity and nige is falling apart again and again on this | |
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| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 09:25 - Jun 25 with 865 views | waveneyblue |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 08:28 - Jun 25 by StokieBlue |
Phil has in the past deleted anti-vax posts that contained misinformation. Should those have also been left up as they were opinions?
If you're not willing to support an assertion where you've accused the researcher's of bending the facts then that's misinformation not an opinion. You should provide a source showing they have done that or retract it as you are accusing people you don't know of being dishonest without evidence and poisoning the well around any future research they may undertake.
There is a difference between opinion and misinformation in my view. Others can and will have an opinion on that opinion.
SB |
Give it rest, your obsession with trying to get Benters banned is getting silly now.
Its his opinion, he's allowed one.
You are more than happy to share your views constantly, he has exactly the same right.
You dont run this board (thankfully) so you just need to accept it. |  | | |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 09:26 - Jun 25 with 875 views | GlasgowBlue |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 09:13 - Jun 25 by positivity |
i think you're making false comparisons.
comparing reducing the deficit is an economic matter, lots of different figures, lots of different ways of comparing them. this is one easily countable figure.
the volume of the deficit doesn't cause riots in the street or people being firebombed out of their homes.
to take a hypothetical, if you'd posted that the official police figures had shown reported anti-semitic attacks had gone up by 200% and darth (or whoever that odd pro-farage conspiracy theorist who got banned a couple of months ago) said that's absolute rubbish, would you be that sanguine?
i don't think you would, and i'd back you 100% because it increases the danger levels for vulnerable communities.
all i'm saying is play the ball, not the man and don't let benters have an easy ride when he posts his farageista misinformation just because he's an old mate |
We have a poster on here, not banned but now on ignore, who constantly disputes the figures showing an increase in antisemitic attacks both in the UK and around the world. I told him he was disputing those figures to suit his own bigoted agenda. It’s one if the reasons I put him on ignore. I called him out on his utter bollox. Which is what I’ve said regarding Benters not believing the reduction in small boat crossings.or put him on ignore as I did with [redacted].
I wasn’t coming back to this as I’m out to enjoy this glorious weather. And I’m not sure what more I can add as we are going around in circles. [Post edited 25 Jun 9:31]
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| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 09:35 - Jun 25 with 860 views | redrickstuhaart |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 09:25 - Jun 25 by waveneyblue |
Give it rest, your obsession with trying to get Benters banned is getting silly now.
Its his opinion, he's allowed one.
You are more than happy to share your views constantly, he has exactly the same right.
You dont run this board (thankfully) so you just need to accept it. |
It's not an opinion. It's a robust assertion of something demonstrably untrue upon which he will not engage. | |
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| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 09:36 - Jun 25 with 859 views | StokieBlue |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 09:25 - Jun 25 by waveneyblue |
Give it rest, your obsession with trying to get Benters banned is getting silly now.
Its his opinion, he's allowed one.
You are more than happy to share your views constantly, he has exactly the same right.
You dont run this board (thankfully) so you just need to accept it. |
Where have I said he should be banned in this thread? You've literally made it up so you can stick the boot in. A classic case is misinformation.
The last paragraph is unbelievable given you've spent two months telling people that they can't post about Farage or Ashton and essentially arguing with everyone on every thread.
People in glass houses and all that.
SB | |
| Avatar - M101 - Pinwheel Galaxy |
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| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 09:41 - Jun 25 with 844 views | Churchman |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 09:11 - Jun 25 by balcombeblue |
Agreed with all that.
I'm not anti-Vax either, but I think it's quite healthy to be engaged in the evidence of whether or not it's a net overall benefit. I don't think it should have been mandated at all and I was against many of the lockdown rules. This was on the basis that I considered them ineffective and detrimental to the long term health/welfare of the population. For this view, many of my friends thought I was a Covid-denier. When 'denier' is thrown at you by people around you that really is concerning as we all know the origins of that insult.
I'm quite similar on the climate. It's changing, there is a significant human cause, but so what? Should we deny opportunities to the developing world? should we temporarily impoverish ourselves in the process? What happens when we reach net zero but nobody else has? All of these are legitimate concerns to raise but are not debated in the public forum.
You can probably add a host of other topics to the list. |
Interesting post. I was chatting with my cousin the other day who works in the health service. Her view was that Covid vaccines are a time bomb, she and her family had never had them because she and her colleagues thought them dangerous. That’s a healthcare professional.
Truth or twaddle? I read as much as I could at the time and weighing up the arguments took everything going. No regrets. Best decision at the time. Lockdown? I thought it wise at the time, but certainly changed my view on that. It was socially catastrophic and medically for some too.
This comes back to who and what you believe. If a government produces information as truth, backed by x or y, it might be right. It might not be. You have to ask who the sources are, what part are they extracting, why and where was it written and for what purpose. Without repeating the other post, I’ve seen governments use information and massage it and even it’s sources for their own ends. That’s the only ‘truth’ I know.
An example: when the Child Benefit discs were allegedly lost in 2007, the Chancellor had to announce it to the House. An idiot had to go and see the speech writer to tell him what was known for Mr Darling to relate. The idiot spent an hour with the speech man while he typed it up in political speak.
There was little factual information available and what was provided was at best, best guess. Reading it back, it read as substance and fact. The answer when numbnuts pleb queried it was it didn’t matter. The news had to be broken and if necessary the true facts could be related at a later date. And so it happened. It wasn’t lies, nor was it the truth. Just information released to serve a political purpose before all hell broke loose.
People often ask for evidence when a statement is made. Well in the last two paragraphs there is no evidence beyond what is written in Hansard. What about the official report produced subsequently? All very factual, evidence based etc and filled with errors. In other words, the truth is out there Jim, but maybe not quite as we know it. |  | | |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 09:42 - Jun 25 with 841 views | positivity |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 09:26 - Jun 25 by GlasgowBlue |
We have a poster on here, not banned but now on ignore, who constantly disputes the figures showing an increase in antisemitic attacks both in the UK and around the world. I told him he was disputing those figures to suit his own bigoted agenda. It’s one if the reasons I put him on ignore. I called him out on his utter bollox. Which is what I’ve said regarding Benters not believing the reduction in small boat crossings.or put him on ignore as I did with [redacted].
I wasn’t coming back to this as I’m out to enjoy this glorious weather. And I’m not sure what more I can add as we are going around in circles. [Post edited 25 Jun 9:31]
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enjoy the weather, but i'm not putting him on ignore to let him spout his faragista conspiracy nonsense unnopposed!
it needs to be called out every time he does it by all of us | |
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| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 10:01 - Jun 25 with 810 views | balcombeblue |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 09:15 - Jun 25 by redrickstuhaart |
That's classic right wing rhetoric but not very true. If I am taxed a bit more I'm not suddenly going to stop working and then lose more income. Scandinavia is happier healthier and higher taxed than the UK. |
It isn't 'right wing rhetoric', it's an economic and social effect. There is some empirical evidence supporting it, including me!
I do like the use of Sandinavia when it suits, as if countries are comparable based on single plucked out phrases.
How about the Swedish Democrats polling 20%, a party formed from members of the SS?
Or Norway drilling for oil?
Or that they have completely abolished inheritance tax in Sweden and Norway?
Assume you are aware of these things? | | | |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 10:13 - Jun 25 with 768 views | naa |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 19:16 - Jun 24 by jasondozzell |
Is being arrogant and pompous a prerequisite of joining the centrist club?
How about cancel nurse tuition fee debt, a national care service, set up a UK housebuilding company to compete with the fat cat developers, increase taxes on the super wealthy, build social housing, produce a scheme to tidy provincial towns that have been left behind, end the costly and inefficient outsourcing this country has become addicted to, nationalise water, energy and utilities... |
The problem with your ideas - and so much of left thinking - is that it costs money. You may not have noticed, but this country is generally right-leaning - hence the many Tory governments, despite them generally being truly awful.
So, I'm not sure how you think any government has a chance of enacting the kind of tax rises needed to pay for all this.
Wealth taxes are always mentioned, and I totally agree with them. But they are very hard to enact. The rich are very good at not paying tax, and some are happy to leave the country to avoid it. So governments then have to start sneaking into the not quite so wealthy brackets, which often has knock on effects and ends badly.
High tax also stifles growth, which tends to end up in high unemployment.
So, yes, I agree completely with your suggestions but I don't agree that anyone in this country would be able to win an election with a manifesto that offered them - and was honest about raising tax to pay for them.
The FPTP system also means that we have political parties where the members do not agree with each other, hence you often mentioning the right of the Labour party. That could be fixed with a PR system where the parties could fracture into parties that actually represent their members.
To me, that is the radical change this country needs. Then it might be possible for people's views to be properly represented in parliament. | | | |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 10:21 - Jun 25 with 730 views | waveneyblue |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 09:36 - Jun 25 by StokieBlue |
Where have I said he should be banned in this thread? You've literally made it up so you can stick the boot in. A classic case is misinformation.
The last paragraph is unbelievable given you've spent two months telling people that they can't post about Farage or Ashton and essentially arguing with everyone on every thread.
People in glass houses and all that.
SB |
Ive never said people cant post their opinion.
I just find the ashton stuff tedious and I make it clear.
Its not difficult to grasp old chap | | | |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 10:53 - Jun 25 with 680 views | NthQldITFC |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 09:11 - Jun 25 by balcombeblue |
Agreed with all that.
I'm not anti-Vax either, but I think it's quite healthy to be engaged in the evidence of whether or not it's a net overall benefit. I don't think it should have been mandated at all and I was against many of the lockdown rules. This was on the basis that I considered them ineffective and detrimental to the long term health/welfare of the population. For this view, many of my friends thought I was a Covid-denier. When 'denier' is thrown at you by people around you that really is concerning as we all know the origins of that insult.
I'm quite similar on the climate. It's changing, there is a significant human cause, but so what? Should we deny opportunities to the developing world? should we temporarily impoverish ourselves in the process? What happens when we reach net zero but nobody else has? All of these are legitimate concerns to raise but are not debated in the public forum.
You can probably add a host of other topics to the list. |
Ah! The faux-reasonable face of utter idiocy. |  |
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| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 11:25 - Jun 25 with 626 views | balcombeblue |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 10:53 - Jun 25 by NthQldITFC |
Ah! The faux-reasonable face of utter idiocy. |
Sorry? | | | |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 11:29 - Jun 25 with 620 views | MattinLondon |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 10:13 - Jun 25 by naa |
The problem with your ideas - and so much of left thinking - is that it costs money. You may not have noticed, but this country is generally right-leaning - hence the many Tory governments, despite them generally being truly awful.
So, I'm not sure how you think any government has a chance of enacting the kind of tax rises needed to pay for all this.
Wealth taxes are always mentioned, and I totally agree with them. But they are very hard to enact. The rich are very good at not paying tax, and some are happy to leave the country to avoid it. So governments then have to start sneaking into the not quite so wealthy brackets, which often has knock on effects and ends badly.
High tax also stifles growth, which tends to end up in high unemployment.
So, yes, I agree completely with your suggestions but I don't agree that anyone in this country would be able to win an election with a manifesto that offered them - and was honest about raising tax to pay for them.
The FPTP system also means that we have political parties where the members do not agree with each other, hence you often mentioning the right of the Labour party. That could be fixed with a PR system where the parties could fracture into parties that actually represent their members.
To me, that is the radical change this country needs. Then it might be possible for people's views to be properly represented in parliament. |
Politically the country might well be right-thinking but socially it’s not. Hence why I think the majority back universal healthcare, back the welfare system and would be in favour of nationalising the railways and water.
I don’t think that companies should make huge profits on public transport or on utilities.
I also think that this country has backed short-termism at the detriment of future generations - yes, nationalising will be expensive but how much do we pay in order to allow shareholders to have a good dividend? But this could well be me just being naive. |  | | |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 12:21 - Jun 25 with 539 views | naa |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 11:29 - Jun 25 by MattinLondon |
Politically the country might well be right-thinking but socially it’s not. Hence why I think the majority back universal healthcare, back the welfare system and would be in favour of nationalising the railways and water.
I don’t think that companies should make huge profits on public transport or on utilities.
I also think that this country has backed short-termism at the detriment of future generations - yes, nationalising will be expensive but how much do we pay in order to allow shareholders to have a good dividend? But this could well be me just being naive. |
Don't particularly disagree with that, but anyone trying to enact that change would have to do so via tax increases and I just can't see the population voting for that I'm afraid. | | | |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 12:33 - Jun 25 with 524 views | leitrimblue |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 08:00 - Jun 25 by balcombeblue |
I'm not sure increasing tax rates any further will work for two reasons.
Firstly, the tax burden is at arguably at the point where any further increases on the people who can actually afford to pay it is going to create a disincentive to work which may cause the tax take to fall. As an example, there is a reverse sweet spot where a number of people pay a very high rate of marginal tax as they start losing their personal allowance and this tax can just be avoided by pension contributions.
Secondly, any further tax increases are just gobbled up into the ever increasing demands of the welfare bill, NHS and debt servicing. Nibbling at the edges, without doing anything structural will make no meaningful difference whatsoever.
So in essence, you get all the negatives without any of the corrections that people are actually arguing for. To that end it becomes a bit spiteful as it attacks a certain type of voter. |
Come on  , as if people are just gonna stop working if tax is raised a bit.
'Sorry love, I know the kids are hungry but my tax as been raised by 20 quid so Im refusing to work'  |  | | |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 12:38 - Jun 25 with 509 views | balcombeblue |
| ‘Two Year Kier’ on 12:33 - Jun 25 by leitrimblue |
Come on , as if people are just gonna stop working if tax is raised a bit.
'Sorry love, I know the kids are hungry but my tax as been raised by 20 quid so Im refusing to work' |
I agree with that. But the £20 per person is hardly going give the changes required. | | | |
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