| Watching the game back left side of back line is worrying 01:52 - Sep 6 with 3066 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
Who is Isak’s man on their first goal? Someone with a coaching badge could maybe explain but this is where I have a concern with our defense.
It’s such a bad sequence really, Fatawu has it nicked away from him Gakpo sidesteps Palacios.
However, despite the level of opposition this is where it just becomes far too easy. Greaves is just looking at the ball, Davis is too high up the pitch isn’t sprinting back. Isak is standing with so much space between the two of them. Gakpo will get the credit for an amazing assist but it’s actually pass anyone could make once he’s done the first bit. If Davis hits the afterburners as soon as we lose the ball we might have been ok but for whatever reason he didn’t this time.
Yes the keeper should save it but you can’t be giving that freedom.
Ok it’s against Liverpool but it’s not just that’s it an elite CL side.
Let’s go back to the first game early on. Two recoveries were made by Davis against Sunderland first half, both against Brian Brobbey but he was in behind after one breakdown in midfield.
One was a top sprint recovery by Davis (after Fatawu lost out in the middle) Greaves is actually in their half at the time. The second was similar and we just about got away with it.
However, that ball is on from midfield all day. Le Fee played exactly the same pass that Gakpo did last night.
The space between our defenders is alarming at times.
To my untrained eye we are playing with fire here! [Post edited 6 Sep 2:15]
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| Watching the game back left side of back line is worrying on 07:53 - Sep 6 with 2559 views | FrimleyBlue |
I feel the issue we have is Greaves awareness in games isnt the best. In that moment hes not once looked over his shoulder. When that ball is played he stops dead then turns and runs. If he was aware of exactly where Isak was and Davis position all he has to do is step up and isak is offside.
This is imo our biggest backline weakness. We simply dont react quick enough to catch people offside.
If you look back to the goal chalked off for offside.. when the ball is played all of our backline still runs towards our own goal.. nearly helping him to be onside. Not one of our defenders stepped up to ensure he was offside. |  |
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| Watching the game back left side of back line is worrying on 08:04 - Sep 6 with 2541 views | jas0999 |
It’s about time we stopped the nonsense it’s Liverpool or it’s Manchester United.
Hull have demonstrated that if you sign a good keeper, defensively strong and tactically astute, you’re in the game. We lost a Friday within nine minutes.
Hull have taken four points off United and a team who won a European competition. The reality is we’ve not been good enough, especially defensively, in last two games. |  | | |
| Watching the game back left side of back line is worrying on 08:10 - Sep 6 with 2506 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Watching the game back left side of back line is worrying on 08:04 - Sep 6 by jas0999 |
It’s about time we stopped the nonsense it’s Liverpool or it’s Manchester United.
Hull have demonstrated that if you sign a good keeper, defensively strong and tactically astute, you’re in the game. We lost a Friday within nine minutes.
Hull have taken four points off United and a team who won a European competition. The reality is we’ve not been good enough, especially defensively, in last two games. |
Your european champions have conceded 5 goals and scored 0 this season. | |
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| Watching the game back left side of back line is worrying on 08:13 - Sep 6 with 2483 views | WestStanderLaLaLa |
I watched the Sunderland break a few times after the match as I was alarmed how easy it was. We win a free kick just inside our half on the right touchline. We send both Diop and Greaves up front but for some reason Dara knocks the free kick back to the keeper and he runs to join both CBs who have stayed up front, keeper kicks it long, Diop drops off a bit and Greaves contests the high ball. This is open play, keeper kicking it long and we have both centre half’s high in the opposition half. We had Lukic, Nunez and Davis back at that point, giving an option for a short pass out. They win the header, falls to Fatawu who gets easily dispossessed, at this point we have a back 4 of Davis, Nunez, Lukic and Diop dropping into right back. They are all in the Sunderland half. Nunez is closest to Brobbey, Lukic not far but both leave him, running forward to close down, they pass through to Brobbey.
Honking defending. |  |
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| Watching the game back left side of back line is worrying on 09:30 - Sep 6 with 2243 views | Garv |
| Watching the game back left side of back line is worrying on 07:53 - Sep 6 by FrimleyBlue |
I feel the issue we have is Greaves awareness in games isnt the best. In that moment hes not once looked over his shoulder. When that ball is played he stops dead then turns and runs. If he was aware of exactly where Isak was and Davis position all he has to do is step up and isak is offside.
This is imo our biggest backline weakness. We simply dont react quick enough to catch people offside.
If you look back to the goal chalked off for offside.. when the ball is played all of our backline still runs towards our own goal.. nearly helping him to be onside. Not one of our defenders stepped up to ensure he was offside. |
Maybe harking back to the past but Burgess was brilliant at playing offside. |  |
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| Watching the game back left side of back line is worrying on 10:04 - Sep 6 with 2162 views | pointofblue |
| Watching the game back left side of back line is worrying on 08:04 - Sep 6 by jas0999 |
It’s about time we stopped the nonsense it’s Liverpool or it’s Manchester United.
Hull have demonstrated that if you sign a good keeper, defensively strong and tactically astute, you’re in the game. We lost a Friday within nine minutes.
Hull have taken four points off United and a team who won a European competition. The reality is we’ve not been good enough, especially defensively, in last two games. |
Coupled with a large swathe of luck that teams they've played so far have got in great positions but haven't been able to finish against them.
Saying that, their keeper seems to be a great find. | |
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| Watching the game back left side of back line is worrying on 11:08 - Sep 6 with 2058 views | PrideOfTheEast |
Both of those goals were bad at any level. Fatawu bad for the first and Palacios whilst beaten with a bit of skill presumably has to do more. Greaves should never have the ball beating him like that to get to Isak and the GK should be saving it.
Second was the goalkeeper for me. Don’t know what he’s doing positioned like that. Pressure is on this defence for the next few games for sure. | | | |
| Watching the game back left side of back line is worrying on 11:24 - Sep 6 with 2026 views | Guthrum |
| Watching the game back left side of back line is worrying on 11:08 - Sep 6 by PrideOfTheEast |
Both of those goals were bad at any level. Fatawu bad for the first and Palacios whilst beaten with a bit of skill presumably has to do more. Greaves should never have the ball beating him like that to get to Isak and the GK should be saving it.
Second was the goalkeeper for me. Don’t know what he’s doing positioned like that. Pressure is on this defence for the next few games for sure. |
With the second goal, I think there was a communication mix-up. Scherpen didn't expect Greaves to get there and so half-committed to coming forwards, leaving him in no man's land, unable to go for the ball or get back to cover the goal-mouth.
The first was such a thunderous shot it burst through despite Scherpen getting a decent hand to it. |  |
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| Watching the game back left side of back line is worrying on 11:27 - Sep 6 with 2020 views | Bellevue_Blue |
You quite rightly say here it is the fault of multiple players here. Lukic plays a poor pass, Fatawu fails to control it or win a free kick, Palacios is weak in the tackle, Greaves isn't aware enough, Davis does not narrow quickly enough and Scherpen should save it.
So 50% of the team plays a part in conceding this goal yet the title of this is the 'left side of back line is worrying'.
Watch the second goal back and Diop is doing exactly the same thing. Ball watching whilst Isak runs in behind him. And the worst part of it all is Fatawu is the last man whose playing him onside. I look forward to the next thread titled 'right side of the backline is worrying'.
Truth is, It's bad team defending, it's not just the fault of Greaves or Davis. [Post edited 6 Sep 11:34]
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| Watching the game back left side of back line is worrying on 14:30 - Sep 6 with 1805 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| Watching the game back left side of back line is worrying on 08:13 - Sep 6 by WestStanderLaLaLa |
I watched the Sunderland break a few times after the match as I was alarmed how easy it was. We win a free kick just inside our half on the right touchline. We send both Diop and Greaves up front but for some reason Dara knocks the free kick back to the keeper and he runs to join both CBs who have stayed up front, keeper kicks it long, Diop drops off a bit and Greaves contests the high ball. This is open play, keeper kicking it long and we have both centre half’s high in the opposition half. We had Lukic, Nunez and Davis back at that point, giving an option for a short pass out. They win the header, falls to Fatawu who gets easily dispossessed, at this point we have a back 4 of Davis, Nunez, Lukic and Diop dropping into right back. They are all in the Sunderland half. Nunez is closest to Brobbey, Lukic not far but both leave him, running forward to close down, they pass through to Brobbey.
Honking defending. |
Yep and that was what, 3 minutes into the season? I think it’s far too much if an easy excuse to start talking about oppositions players abilities when we concede. The Isak goals were far too easy. | |
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| Watching the game back left side of back line is worrying on 14:33 - Sep 6 with 1798 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| Watching the game back left side of back line is worrying on 11:08 - Sep 6 by PrideOfTheEast |
Both of those goals were bad at any level. Fatawu bad for the first and Palacios whilst beaten with a bit of skill presumably has to do more. Greaves should never have the ball beating him like that to get to Isak and the GK should be saving it.
Second was the goalkeeper for me. Don’t know what he’s doing positioned like that. Pressure is on this defence for the next few games for sure. |
The keeper is in no man’s lands, if he stays on his line when Greaves gets across the chance is nothing like it turns out to be.
However, the ease in which the entire back line is beaten is scary, if you watch the replay Isak gets really frustrated the ball wasn’t played earlier because he such a simple pass and he’s in! Only for it to be played 5 seconds later with exactly the same result. Worrying, we surely have to change tact here. [Post edited 6 Sep 14:34]
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| Watching the game back left side of back line is worrying on 14:49 - Sep 6 with 1753 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| Watching the game back left side of back line is worrying on 11:27 - Sep 6 by Bellevue_Blue |
You quite rightly say here it is the fault of multiple players here. Lukic plays a poor pass, Fatawu fails to control it or win a free kick, Palacios is weak in the tackle, Greaves isn't aware enough, Davis does not narrow quickly enough and Scherpen should save it.
So 50% of the team plays a part in conceding this goal yet the title of this is the 'left side of back line is worrying'.
Watch the second goal back and Diop is doing exactly the same thing. Ball watching whilst Isak runs in behind him. And the worst part of it all is Fatawu is the last man whose playing him onside. I look forward to the next thread titled 'right side of the backline is worrying'.
Truth is, It's bad team defending, it's not just the fault of Greaves or Davis. [Post edited 6 Sep 11:34]
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Hard to disagree but surely as defenders you have to react to the ball being turned over higher up the pitch, that will happen at times, last line and all that.
I just think that ball is constantly on and has been in all three games. Davis is obviously the out ball for us going forward which is a threat for us. The way he plays just worries me for a promoted side sometimes, it did last time. Not his fault really it’s his game but a fullback so high in a 4 if you’re likely relegation fighter isn’t always going to work.
It’s not just when we are on the attack, it’s his starting position. [Post edited 6 Sep 14:50]
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| Watching the game back left side of back line is worrying on 15:27 - Sep 6 with 1658 views | bradforblues |
Multitude of errors
Lukic pass wasn't great as Fatawu was wide and kerkez intercept was on given his position. Lukic may not have had time to look up but the ball should have gone in behind Kerkez and let him sprint v Fatawu. Even if they recover the ball it's deep in their half.
Next error is no recovery from him
Next error is Palacios gets beaten too easy, doesn't slow down as he approaches
Next error is Leif not getting back quick enough, wrong side and can't affect Isak
Next error is Greaves not looking to his left to see that the ball into Isak was on.
Keeper may be at fault but damn good strike. | |
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| Watching the game back left side of back line is worrying on 16:03 - Sep 6 with 1577 views | grow_our_own |
Izak was Greaves' man, not Davis'. Agreed Greaves ball-watched for the first, as we've seen him do many times before. His danger assessment is really bad, and I'm not sure if it's the kind of thing you can teach. At 25, he's at his career peak now.
The other element you didn't mention is Lukic. No way he should have played that expansive pass round the corner to a heavily marked Fatawu after six minutes. Defenders (Kerkez in this case) are fresh and chance of interception is too great. That's exactly what happened. This is why you must play longer at the start of games. Just loft it into the channel that early! Fatawu's quick enough to capitalise. Quite why we didn't try to expose Kerkez' lack of pace throughout the game is beyond me.
But let's not forget that the save was very makeable. [Post edited 7 Sep 9:04]
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| Watching the game back left side of back line is worrying on 16:07 - Sep 6 with 1549 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| Watching the game back left side of back line is worrying on 16:03 - Sep 6 by grow_our_own |
Izak was Greaves' man, not Davis'. Agreed Greaves ball-watched for the first, as we've seen him do many times before. His danger assessment is really bad, and I'm not sure if it's the kind of thing you can teach. At 25, he's at his career peak now.
The other element you didn't mention is Lukic. No way he should have played that expansive pass round the corner to a heavily marked Fatawu after six minutes. Defenders (Kerkez in this case) are fresh and chance of interception is too great. That's exactly what happened. This is why you must play longer at the start of games. Just loft it into the channel that early! Fatawu's quick enough to capitalise. Quite why we didn't try to expose Kerkez' lack of pace throughout the game is beyond me.
But let's not forget that the save was very makeable. [Post edited 7 Sep 9:04]
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Must be absolutely infuriating as a manger to turn back to iPad and see that 6 minutes in after a week of preparation! | |
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| Watching the game back left side of back line is worrying on 16:31 - Sep 6 with 1495 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Watching the game back left side of back line is worrying on 16:03 - Sep 6 by grow_our_own |
Izak was Greaves' man, not Davis'. Agreed Greaves ball-watched for the first, as we've seen him do many times before. His danger assessment is really bad, and I'm not sure if it's the kind of thing you can teach. At 25, he's at his career peak now.
The other element you didn't mention is Lukic. No way he should have played that expansive pass round the corner to a heavily marked Fatawu after six minutes. Defenders (Kerkez in this case) are fresh and chance of interception is too great. That's exactly what happened. This is why you must play longer at the start of games. Just loft it into the channel that early! Fatawu's quick enough to capitalise. Quite why we didn't try to expose Kerkez' lack of pace throughout the game is beyond me.
But let's not forget that the save was very makeable. [Post edited 7 Sep 9:04]
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Thing is. Is shielding the ball even a strengh of Fatawu with back to goal. For me he appears to lightweight for that. | |
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| Watching the game back left side of back line is worrying on 00:24 - Sep 7 with 1318 views | armchaircritic59 |
Your third paragraph is spot on. Easy to blame the keeper, who yes, should have saved it, but should never have been put in the position to find it even necessary. As things stand, the defence will be our achilles heel, and it might be a big enough one to send us back down. Too many midfielders, not enough defenders. Playing the only CB we have with pace at RB just compounds the issue. Needs sorting out and fast. |  | | |
| Watching the game back left side of back line is worrying on 06:18 - Sep 7 with 1201 views | Blue_Heath |
We need to stop the DOS rb thing imo.
If by some miracle we stay up strengthening the backline next year is an absolute priority.
Davis needs to be more defensive also and let Maeda do the wing work. | |
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| Watching the game back left side of back line is worrying on 08:24 - Sep 7 with 1024 views | DJR |
Having seen it live from behind the goal, and watched it on video, I just feel that the ball should never have reached Isak.
Another observation from the three games is that we are tending to play a high line defensively, but we have hardly caught anyone offside, the ball that led to the Davis challenge in the penalty area being one of the few exceptions.
Mick Mills said the defence needs to be organised better, and maybe it is just early teething problems as the players adjust to what is a rather unusual system which on occasions has wide gaps between Greaves, Diop and O'Shea. [Post edited 7 Sep 8:28]
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| Watching the game back left side of back line is worrying on 08:35 - Sep 7 with 971 views | hype313 |
| Watching the game back left side of back line is worrying on 08:24 - Sep 7 by DJR |
Having seen it live from behind the goal, and watched it on video, I just feel that the ball should never have reached Isak.
Another observation from the three games is that we are tending to play a high line defensively, but we have hardly caught anyone offside, the ball that led to the Davis challenge in the penalty area being one of the few exceptions.
Mick Mills said the defence needs to be organised better, and maybe it is just early teething problems as the players adjust to what is a rather unusual system which on occasions has wide gaps between Greaves, Diop and O'Shea. [Post edited 7 Sep 8:28]
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Defenses win you games, attackers decide by how many.
I hope we haven't neglected the back line in the window which could bite us on the ar5e. Playing our best CB at RB is a head scratcher. |  |
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| Watching the game back left side of back line is worrying on 08:46 - Sep 7 with 940 views | Swansea_Blue |
Isak played in the space between them all night. It was obviously a weakness they’d spotted and Isak exploited it very well. This is why we needed a better, faster LCB to provide better cover for Leif imo. It was pretty obvious I thought just looking how the defense was shaping up in pre-season. Greaves gets exposed through no fault of his own really and the poor bloke will be the one to get all the flack. |  |
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| Watching the game back left side of back line is worrying on 08:57 - Sep 7 with 899 views | gainsboroughblue |
I was very uneasy reaching 11pm last Tuesday with us not having added to our defence. Great work elsewhere but I feel we have left ourselves short of quality and know how there. An absolute must in Jan. |  |
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| Watching the game back left side of back line is worrying on 09:49 - Sep 7 with 776 views | Lion |
Greaves was marking no-one and should have been on him | |
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| Watching the game back left side of back line is worrying on 19:43 - Sep 7 with 451 views | armchaircritic59 |
| Watching the game back left side of back line is worrying on 08:46 - Sep 7 by Swansea_Blue |
Isak played in the space between them all night. It was obviously a weakness they’d spotted and Isak exploited it very well. This is why we needed a better, faster LCB to provide better cover for Leif imo. It was pretty obvious I thought just looking how the defense was shaping up in pre-season. Greaves gets exposed through no fault of his own really and the poor bloke will be the one to get all the flack. |
Except it isn't JG getting all the flak, it's Scherpen, and it's pretty nasty in some places. Sure I've seen this all somewhere before in the last 2 years. | | | |
| Watching the game back left side of back line is worrying on 19:52 - Sep 7 with 407 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| Watching the game back left side of back line is worrying on 08:57 - Sep 7 by gainsboroughblue |
I was very uneasy reaching 11pm last Tuesday with us not having added to our defence. Great work elsewhere but I feel we have left ourselves short of quality and know how there. An absolute must in Jan. |
We only had 2 clean sheets last time out. Usually you need about 8 to finish 17th.
A few outliers were Leeds and Forest but they both survived with under 40 points.
In fact somehow Leeds survived conceding 79 in 2021!
In an ideal world Florentino was a loan and we spent that on the back line. Guess you do the deals as they come though.
Shame Lille wanted so much for Alessandro! I think European clubs looked at what Sunderland done and said we need to be putting 10M on these! | |
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