| Something is going down in Portsmouth… 22:54 - Sep 6 with 12132 views | SitfcB |
But it’s not yet on BBC or Sky News…?
Why? [Post edited 6 Sep 22:54]
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| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 12:35 - Sep 7 with 923 views | Whos_blue |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 11:59 - Sep 7 by TownieRob |
Honestly, we should not be welcoming in my opinion. Basic food and water while they are put into a basic holding centre while their claim is processed. It shouldnt seen as a butlins or all inclsuive holiday while a decision is made.
The main point is that we should not make the UK such an attractive propostion for those who will be a burden on the system. This btw does include UK born people. |
I can't really add much more than what Guthers said but just replying as a courtesy. |  |
| "Look, I don't wanna be the same as everybody else. That's why I'm a Mod, see?" |
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| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 12:36 - Sep 7 with 916 views | Guthrum |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 11:19 - Sep 7 by TownieRob |
If they don't have passports or enough money to pay for plane fares then I would argue they perhaps aren't going to be bringing much to the table in terms of providing skills in which we don't have or lacking number within.
We need the best talent and skills in this country. We should not have to take people into the UK who cannot even support themselves in their own country. That is not racist either, we have enough lazy and financial liabilities in this country already. |
They often cannot support themselves in their own country because the economies of those places have collapsed, due to war, famine and oppression. |  |
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| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 12:39 - Sep 7 with 902 views | Plums |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 12:33 - Sep 7 by Guthrum |
Conditions are that basic. Holding centres, a.k.a. dilapidated old military bases, are no improvement, nor are they really much cheaper (requiring staffing, infrastructure and supply), plus still attracting the same hostility.
France and Germany have received very large numbers of migrants themselves. What we are getting is just one stream, the overflow of what Europe has already taken. However, we cannot expect Italy, Greece and Spain (the main points of entry) to take all the immigrants, especially without financial support from those they would be shielding. |
It's probably also something to do with 400+ years of British colonial 'marketing'... |  |
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| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 12:40 - Sep 7 with 903 views | TownieRob |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 12:19 - Sep 7 by Swansea_Blue |
We have a legal obligation to accept applications and assess them. I know you’d like to make their lives a misery while their claim is being processed, but thankfully we do at least offer basic shelter and food (in pretty grim conditions sometimes).
What’s the solution then if you don’t think any public funds should be spent on them? Leave them where they land? How long do you think they’d sit there? They’d be picked up by gangs and disappear in no time. So they have to be collected and processed. How do you propose that’s done without it costing any money? |
To be very clear, I've never once heard or said Farage has actually put forward a workable answer to this. 'Stop the boats overnight' isn't a policy, it's a soundbite and everyone screaming it, I would hope knows full well it doesn't happen like that. To be doubly clear, I'm not NF fan, not remotely, so please don't lump me in with that.
I know full well this costs money and I know there's no overnight fix. Strip back the benefits, keep the holding conditions basic, not cruel, but not comfortable either and already you will have taken a chunk of the pull factor out of the system. Ensure nobody leaves that process and into the country unless they've got a confirmed job or a sponsor lined up. No job, no sponsor then sorry, there's no place for you here. Meanwhile anyone with genuine skills who can contribute, welcome them in and we must/should use them properly.
Bottom line and one that I can't unsee, you don't turn up to a party uninvited and expect to be fed by everyone else there, not unless you're bringing something to it. Music, food, whatever but you must contribute or you don't get to stay. I know it's a blunt way of putting it, but that's the principle in all this for me.
Is any of this outrageous, honestly? |  | | |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 12:41 - Sep 7 with 894 views | Billywitch |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 12:21 - Sep 7 by redrickstuhaart |
So no refugees or asylum claims at all then. In breach of all our international legal obligations? Howuch cooperation do you think we will get from the French on this if we simply dick out of long standing treaties? How would we physically send people back? |
Yeah, we really need to be mindful of the french and what they think, after all they've proven to be sooooo helpful with stopping people leaving their shores to come here. something we've paid £400ish million for since 2023 | | | |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 12:43 - Sep 7 with 886 views | Guthrum |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 12:39 - Sep 7 by Plums |
It's probably also something to do with 400+ years of British colonial 'marketing'... |
There is an element of that, altho a lot are coming from places which were not UK colonies (Eritrea, Albania, Syria). | |
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| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 12:45 - Sep 7 with 876 views | Billywitch |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 12:36 - Sep 7 by Guthrum |
They often cannot support themselves in their own country because the economies of those places have collapsed, due to war, famine and oppression. |
So with this in mind they should be coming here with gratitude. I do hope they behave impeccably in that case. | | | |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 12:48 - Sep 7 with 857 views | Dubtractor |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 12:40 - Sep 7 by TownieRob |
To be very clear, I've never once heard or said Farage has actually put forward a workable answer to this. 'Stop the boats overnight' isn't a policy, it's a soundbite and everyone screaming it, I would hope knows full well it doesn't happen like that. To be doubly clear, I'm not NF fan, not remotely, so please don't lump me in with that.
I know full well this costs money and I know there's no overnight fix. Strip back the benefits, keep the holding conditions basic, not cruel, but not comfortable either and already you will have taken a chunk of the pull factor out of the system. Ensure nobody leaves that process and into the country unless they've got a confirmed job or a sponsor lined up. No job, no sponsor then sorry, there's no place for you here. Meanwhile anyone with genuine skills who can contribute, welcome them in and we must/should use them properly.
Bottom line and one that I can't unsee, you don't turn up to a party uninvited and expect to be fed by everyone else there, not unless you're bringing something to it. Music, food, whatever but you must contribute or you don't get to stay. I know it's a blunt way of putting it, but that's the principle in all this for me.
Is any of this outrageous, honestly? |
My issue with that last paragraph is that it closes the door to genuine asylum seekers, trying to escape god knows what persecution or war.
I accept that judging genuine asylum seekers vs those just looking to improve their lot is tricky, and i have no suggestion on how to police it, but just closing the door because people don't meet a capitalism threshold doesn't work for me.
I tend not to get too involved in these threads, as it all gets too binary/tribal, and i think it is far too nuanced a subject for that. This thread has mostly been ok though, so here I am! |  |
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| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 12:50 - Sep 7 with 845 views | noggin |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 12:25 - Sep 7 by TownieRob |
We're spending £8m+ a day on hotels.. so I'm really hopeful conditions arent as basic as you state. Nothing wrong with repurposing old MOD bases and prisons as holding centres.
France and Germany are just as prosperous and stable, yet most are pushing through these countries to get here specifically. If political stability was a key factor then the flow of perople would stop at the first safe country, not carry on to the UK. Something else is doing the work there.
The aid cuts / allies trashing places argument, whatever's driving people from their home countries in the first place, it doesn't explain or excuse why the UK specifically gets picked over every other safe country on the route. Unless it's the Pull factor.. |
"France and Germany are just as prosperous and stable, yet most are pushing through these countries to get here specifically."
Factually incorrect. |  |
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| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 12:51 - Sep 7 with 839 views | Ryorry |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 12:16 - Sep 7 by Billywitch |
Leave it as we only take in skilled workers via skilled migration then.
That way we don't need to be financially responsible for thousands of people that aren't skilled workers, or provided the country with anything.
(we can then focus on internal matters, such as getting British people into unskilled roles, creating spaces in prisons etc etc.... all things that the previous government failed to do - but this one dont seem much better)
Or is that completely unfeasible? [Post edited 7 Sep 12:20]
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Getting unemployed Brits into the mountains of unskilled jobs that are currently unfilled but urgently need doing would be great, but would take time to achieve (most governments sadly failing to think ahead long term).
Meanwhile, hospitals, food production, transport, construction etc can’t function without cleaners, porters, pickers, labourers etc.
Most immigrants currently languishing in their grim accommodation would love the opportunity to work. We should let them. The reason it’s not allowed currently is purely because it’s thought it would encourage more to come. Given the numbers in recent years, I don’t see how that can be substantiated. Might as well give it a trial and see how that pans out. |  |
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| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 12:57 - Sep 7 with 812 views | TownieRob |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 12:48 - Sep 7 by Dubtractor |
My issue with that last paragraph is that it closes the door to genuine asylum seekers, trying to escape god knows what persecution or war.
I accept that judging genuine asylum seekers vs those just looking to improve their lot is tricky, and i have no suggestion on how to police it, but just closing the door because people don't meet a capitalism threshold doesn't work for me.
I tend not to get too involved in these threads, as it all gets too binary/tribal, and i think it is far too nuanced a subject for that. This thread has mostly been ok though, so here I am! |
Agreed, some decent debate with no real name calling..close but not fully. :)
I still stand by what I said though, but can see that real cases obviously deserve real time to be processed properly, no argument from me there. If someone's genuinely escaping persecution and have managed to get themselves in the UK, then they should understand that and honestly be grateful they've been given somewhere safe while it gets sorted, rather than expecting it done overnight. If it isn't legitimate then they shoudl expect to be returned to wherever they arrived from within the hour of the decision.
Appreciate everyone's input on this one. Still a way off with some posters, closer with others, but I think we can all agree something needs to change.
Anyway, must get on, got some proper work to do. | | | |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 12:59 - Sep 7 with 802 views | Guthrum |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 12:40 - Sep 7 by TownieRob |
To be very clear, I've never once heard or said Farage has actually put forward a workable answer to this. 'Stop the boats overnight' isn't a policy, it's a soundbite and everyone screaming it, I would hope knows full well it doesn't happen like that. To be doubly clear, I'm not NF fan, not remotely, so please don't lump me in with that.
I know full well this costs money and I know there's no overnight fix. Strip back the benefits, keep the holding conditions basic, not cruel, but not comfortable either and already you will have taken a chunk of the pull factor out of the system. Ensure nobody leaves that process and into the country unless they've got a confirmed job or a sponsor lined up. No job, no sponsor then sorry, there's no place for you here. Meanwhile anyone with genuine skills who can contribute, welcome them in and we must/should use them properly.
Bottom line and one that I can't unsee, you don't turn up to a party uninvited and expect to be fed by everyone else there, not unless you're bringing something to it. Music, food, whatever but you must contribute or you don't get to stay. I know it's a blunt way of putting it, but that's the principle in all this for me.
Is any of this outrageous, honestly? |
Problem with that is you're trying to change a century or more of perceptions of what Britain is. That's deeply ingrained in the global psyche.
You're also assuming that news of the reality of arriving in the UK will percolate back to the places of origin of these migrants. Or that our idea of basic provision is not still better than the home conditions of these people (nobody is bombing us, food is readily available, the secret police are not knocking on the door). The gangs making money from this will certainly still continue peddling the myths, to keep their "customers" flowing.
The sponsorship idea sounds good, but it is not something a refugee fleeing war or disaster can possibly set up. They may have fled with nothing. Probably lack the contacts to arrange anything. However, that doesn't stop them potentially being high-contributing members of society. Look at the number of immigrants historically who settled in the UK, set up businesses, became academics and otherwise were of great benefit to the nation.
As for confirmed jobs, that is the route by which most immigrants come anyway. That and studying. They are the main legal routes into the country. | |
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| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 13:02 - Sep 7 with 791 views | TownieRob |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 12:50 - Sep 7 by noggin |
"France and Germany are just as prosperous and stable, yet most are pushing through these countries to get here specifically."
Factually incorrect. |
Fair challenge Noggin, and how I worded it, is not quite accurate in terms of how many they take, What I'm actually pointing at is the smaller subset crossing the Channel specifically, people already safe in France that could claim asylum, choosing to cross anyway rather than stay put. Probably the way I put it blurred the two together. Appreciate the correction. | | | |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 13:03 - Sep 7 with 784 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 12:57 - Sep 7 by TownieRob |
Agreed, some decent debate with no real name calling..close but not fully. :)
I still stand by what I said though, but can see that real cases obviously deserve real time to be processed properly, no argument from me there. If someone's genuinely escaping persecution and have managed to get themselves in the UK, then they should understand that and honestly be grateful they've been given somewhere safe while it gets sorted, rather than expecting it done overnight. If it isn't legitimate then they shoudl expect to be returned to wherever they arrived from within the hour of the decision.
Appreciate everyone's input on this one. Still a way off with some posters, closer with others, but I think we can all agree something needs to change.
Anyway, must get on, got some proper work to do. |
This is largely the current situation. The reference to butlins is absurd. | |
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| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 13:08 - Sep 7 with 761 views | Guthrum |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 12:45 - Sep 7 by Billywitch |
So with this in mind they should be coming here with gratitude. I do hope they behave impeccably in that case. |
They mostly do.
The stats are imperfect because the national origin of offenders is not specifically recorded. However, what research there is suggests offending rates are pretty much on a par with the general population.
Considering many of these people have been through highly traumatic experiences and are now confined with no avenue for employment or other activites, that is not bad. | |
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| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 13:13 - Sep 7 with 744 views | Guthrum |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 13:02 - Sep 7 by TownieRob |
Fair challenge Noggin, and how I worded it, is not quite accurate in terms of how many they take, What I'm actually pointing at is the smaller subset crossing the Channel specifically, people already safe in France that could claim asylum, choosing to cross anyway rather than stay put. Probably the way I put it blurred the two together. Appreciate the correction. |
Worth bearing in mind human nature. People who haven't found France and Germany live up to the promises may try to continue chasing their dream across the Channel - where they find the UK equally disappointing in reality. | |
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| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 13:32 - Sep 7 with 696 views | Whos_blue |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 12:14 - Sep 7 by Billywitch |
I dont think any of them will.
Hope that answers it for you |
If that's your position then fair enough.
If the recent data is correct, it would seem that tje current government ate starting to see some progress with reducing tje numbers. Yes, people will argue they are still high but a 40+% reduction is significantly more than previous governments.
So something to at least acknowledge if not celebrate?
The issue has become so overblown that for some it's become an issue of no more immigration or get rid of those already here. The issue is that as an island we have had 100s of thousands of people move here over several centuries. This has happened the world over. Migration has generally been a positive thing. It's shaped our language, what we eat, what music we listen to.
It isn't the stain and drain on our country some people suggest it is
If fear that people like you who are clearly disenfranchised with the political system on this matter will start to migrate towards the blackshirts and I genuinely hope you don't see people like that as our saviours.
They don't have the answers but are only driven by hate and division.
The UK has to be better than that. | |
| "Look, I don't wanna be the same as everybody else. That's why I'm a Mod, see?" |
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| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 14:19 - Sep 7 with 590 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 13:13 - Sep 7 by Guthrum |
Worth bearing in mind human nature. People who haven't found France and Germany live up to the promises may try to continue chasing their dream across the Channel - where they find the UK equally disappointing in reality. |
Also worth bearing in mind that Germany and france as well as italy and spain are all taking more than we are by some distance. So it's not 'not quite true that a majority push through to the UK. Its utter boll ocks | |
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| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 14:30 - Sep 7 with 563 views | eireblue |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 12:16 - Sep 7 by TownieRob |
What on earth are you talking about. If we made the UK less attractive in terms of what we give away then of course we wouldnt get the same amount of people trying to arrive.
It's called 'pull factor'. |
Criminal gangs don’t say to their potential customers, yeah Uk is closing down its benefits.
You think someone that has spent months travelling from Eritrea is going to be checking the .gov site to work out whether they get butter on their bread.
“pull factor” is just a term for U.K. politicians to get people to dislike immigrants.
Do Migrants Know the Welfare and Benefit Levels?
Generally, no. Extensive empirical studies—including reports by the UK Home Office and the Mixed Migration Centre (MMC)—reveal that:
Information is limited or inaccurate:
Most people on the move have little to no precise knowledge of a destination country's welfare rates, housing policies, or legal work bans before arriving.
Perceptions vs. Reality:
Decisions are often driven by broad, subjective impressions of a country (e.g., "it is a safe and fair place") rather than an objective comparison of state stipends.
The "Welfare Magnet" Myth:
A massive study by the Immigration Policy Lab (IPL) tracking over 200,000 immigrants found no evidence that people choose destinations based on marginal shifts or increases in welfare benefits.
It is dog whistle politics, politicians are basically using the old trope, they are coming over here to steal from you. |  | | |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 14:41 - Sep 7 with 538 views | naa |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 09:10 - Sep 7 by OldFart71 |
I am concerned at a certain amount of flippancy regarding these boats coming in. You may agree with mass immigration or you may not. The fact is this country cannot afford all of them.
Whether you believe certain channels or not the main channels for reasons only know to themselves refuse to cover these stories.
Sensible immigration is fine and the reasons these people come here when in safe havens in other countries on the face of it appears due to our tendency to take rules and regulations by the ECHR and laws introduced by the Blair government to the max whereas other countries seem to abide by what they decide.
There is no doubt that immigration in particular is ripping this country apart, along with many of the policies that Labour seems to think whereby they are in a hole but just keep digging. |
And yet migration is at its lowest level for many years but if you survey people in the street they'll tell you the opposite. Facts eh?
People have also been told that migration is the reason they are struggling when it almost certainly isn't.
We do obviously need to control migration numbers, but the government obviously is trying, hence the large number of rules and changes they've made recently.
If however, you think the small boats are the entire reason for all our ills then I'm afraid there is not an awful lot we can do that we haven't already.
Leaving the ECHR is definitely not the answer unless you are happy to be an international pariah and almost certainly put further strain on the economy. | | | |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 14:48 - Sep 7 with 506 views | noggin |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 13:02 - Sep 7 by TownieRob |
Fair challenge Noggin, and how I worded it, is not quite accurate in terms of how many they take, What I'm actually pointing at is the smaller subset crossing the Channel specifically, people already safe in France that could claim asylum, choosing to cross anyway rather than stay put. Probably the way I put it blurred the two together. Appreciate the correction. |
"how I worded it, is not quite accurate"
It was way off, but you know that. | |
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| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 15:05 - Sep 7 with 437 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 12:41 - Sep 7 by Billywitch |
Yeah, we really need to be mindful of the french and what they think, after all they've proven to be sooooo helpful with stopping people leaving their shores to come here. something we've paid £400ish million for since 2023 |
“The Home Office, citing French police figures, said that since it struck a deal with France three months ago which included additional funding for authorities, 61% of small boats have been intercepted - a five per cent increase compared to last year.”
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/art
It would be really helpful if everyone wanging on about migrants would actually find a little bit out about the subject. |  |
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| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 15:18 - Sep 7 with 406 views | Billywitch |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 15:05 - Sep 7 by Swansea_Blue |
“The Home Office, citing French police figures, said that since it struck a deal with France three months ago which included additional funding for authorities, 61% of small boats have been intercepted - a five per cent increase compared to last year.”
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/art
It would be really helpful if everyone wanging on about migrants would actually find a little bit out about the subject. |
Yeah because the french police would never give incorrect figures so the UK's investment continues/increases.... | | | |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 15:20 - Sep 7 with 404 views | Dubtractor |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 14:41 - Sep 7 by naa |
And yet migration is at its lowest level for many years but if you survey people in the street they'll tell you the opposite. Facts eh?
People have also been told that migration is the reason they are struggling when it almost certainly isn't.
We do obviously need to control migration numbers, but the government obviously is trying, hence the large number of rules and changes they've made recently.
If however, you think the small boats are the entire reason for all our ills then I'm afraid there is not an awful lot we can do that we haven't already.
Leaving the ECHR is definitely not the answer unless you are happy to be an international pariah and almost certainly put further strain on the economy. |
I think part of the issue is that reduced numbers coming in doesn't reduce the numbers that people see in their community. So it doesn't cut through to those people that see immigration as a problem.
I say that as someone who largely sees the positives in people coming to this country, but I'm not blind to some of the challenges it brings. [Post edited 7 Sep 15:23]
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| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 15:36 - Sep 7 with 364 views | eireblue |
| Something is going down in Portsmouth… on 15:18 - Sep 7 by Billywitch |
Yeah because the french police would never give incorrect figures so the UK's investment continues/increases.... |
NGO’s have been complaining about the increasing violence the French police have been using.
So there is independent evidence that tactics have changed. | | | |
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