| Another £330 million per annum slips out of the Coffers. on 17:57 - Sep 8 with 594 views | nrb1985 |
| Another £330 million per annum slips out of the Coffers. on 15:11 - Sep 8 by Zx1988 |
When Greek policy allows him to pay a flat tax of £86k on foreign earnings, we'd never be able to compete with them in a month of Sundays.
This doesn't seem to be the indictment of UK taxation policy that the anti-Starmer/Burnham lot seem to think that it is. |
No but it rather begs the question, when the rest of the world is batting their eyelids at these people, why did we decide we would scrap our own non dom scheme?
Rokos wasn't a non dom so it's irrelvant in this particular instance but highlights that we've turned our backs on these types of people when much of the rest of the world is welcoming them in with open arms. Which, as I've vocalised on here, will likely prove a mistake. [Post edited 8 Sep 18:00]
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| Another £330 million per annum slips out of the Coffers. on 18:01 - Sep 8 with 571 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Another £330 million per annum slips out of the Coffers. on 17:58 - Sep 8 by nrb1985 |
I'm not against this but the allure of british citizenship isn't the same as that of the U.S. - suspect you'd find many people would just ditch their passport. |
No loss if they are non doms anyway. | |
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| Another £330 million per annum slips out of the Coffers. on 18:09 - Sep 8 with 549 views | Axeldalai_lama |
| Another £330 million per annum slips out of the Coffers. on 16:41 - Sep 8 by Billywitch |
Correct me if I'm wrong, but he HAS been paying a substantial amount of tax for years. Everyone has their breaking point, why is he wrong for now deciding his time is done here? |
Correct me if I'm wrong but paying millions in tax would mean earning almost definitely billions whilst in this country. Why would there need to be a 'breaking point'? Why would his time here need to be 'done'?
This is all obviously speculation based on him wanting to pay less tax. Not just moving for the weather. If he is moving only to pay less tax, then that can be attacked from many sides, not that he'll care, I'm sure. |  | | |
| Another £330 million per annum slips out of the Coffers. on 18:12 - Sep 8 with 528 views | Churchman |
| Another £330 million per annum slips out of the Coffers. on 15:30 - Sep 8 by J2BLUE |
Yes, I understand that. I am saying why should he be allowed to have all the benefits of a British passport when the country is in a difficult time if he's unwilling to pay his share? Especially if he plans to be here just under the threshold each year and use public services etc.
If he is moving to avoid tax he is scum. A level of wealth beyond anything he will ever need. Enough to set his descendants up forever if he wants to. I just find it sickening. A level of greed that should embarrass anyone enough not to do it. |
The trouble is do you draw the line in defining a tax dodger as ‘scum’?
We have plenty of people working in the huge black economy here not paying any tax. People who are self employed - do they pay what they should? My dad certainly didn’t. His little side line work showed a loss every year, yet it brought him in £6k a year to top up his pension and other work. I used to mock him for it, but understood why he did it.
PAYE mugs like me have to pay their dues. Everyone else? You tell me. My understanding is that the rich (whatever you define them as) with a good accountant pay significantly under what they should. This article is a year old, but interesting. The dedicated team it mentions that went after the super rich was abandoned in 2017. Austerity cuts to staff and it was thought pressure from politicians and their benefactors was alleged to be the reason. The truth? Who knows.
https://www.theguardian.com/bu
If this individual paid £330,000,000 tax last year, that equated to 44,000 people on incomes of £50,000 paying at a rate of 20%.
The tax gap in 24/25 is thought to be £59.2bn. Eye watering numbers. |  | | |
| Another £330 million per annum slips out of the Coffers. on 18:17 - Sep 8 with 514 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Another £330 million per annum slips out of the Coffers. on 15:14 - Sep 8 by DJR |
According to Wikipedia, he is of Greek descent, so maybe that has played a part in his decision. |
Quite. The article even states the reason isn’t known. If he can afford to donate £190M to Cambridge University, it could well not be a purely financial decision. And his personal tax rate on on his wealth growth will be well below that of everyone on this board. |  |
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| Another £330 million per annum slips out of the Coffers. on 18:30 - Sep 8 with 494 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Another £330 million per annum slips out of the Coffers. on 17:22 - Sep 8 by redrickstuhaart |
Doesn't trap you at all if you have that sort of income. |
Since those of us on PAYE already pay an effective tax rate higher than the wealthy, why would you assume a double taxation of ex-pats wouldn’t apply to us. HMRC only go after the easy hits.
The guy is of Greek descent, says he’s opening an office in Athens. The issue to me isn’t that he’s not paying tax here, but he’s screwing the people of Greece (courtesy of their government).
Besides we have no treaties in place whereby we could even recover any tax, clearly Greece is trying to attract the wealthy with golden visa’s so it seems incredibly unlikely they’d even agree any treaty. [Post edited 8 Sep 18:53]
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| Another £330 million per annum slips out of the Coffers. on 19:43 - Sep 8 with 416 views | Illinoisblue |
Wait, I thought the transfer window was shut? |  |
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| At least it's not per week. on 20:15 - Sep 8 with 371 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
Indeed.
When are those that ran that campaign going to start handing over the money they misled the electorate over? |  |
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| Another £330 million per annum slips out of the Coffers. on 20:17 - Sep 8 with 370 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Another £330 million per annum slips out of the Coffers. on 17:57 - Sep 8 by nrb1985 |
No but it rather begs the question, when the rest of the world is batting their eyelids at these people, why did we decide we would scrap our own non dom scheme?
Rokos wasn't a non dom so it's irrelvant in this particular instance but highlights that we've turned our backs on these types of people when much of the rest of the world is welcoming them in with open arms. Which, as I've vocalised on here, will likely prove a mistake. [Post edited 8 Sep 18:00]
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So the answer to losing £330M tax income is to allow them to pay no tax by paying a small fee so that we still lose £330M tax income?
Surely the only moral to the OP story is that money is exceptionally unfairly distributed in the world and there is nothing simple that can be done about it. | |
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| Another £330 million per annum slips out of the Coffers. on 21:01 - Sep 8 with 336 views | nrb1985 |
| Another £330 million per annum slips out of the Coffers. on 20:17 - Sep 8 by Nthsuffolkblue |
So the answer to losing £330M tax income is to allow them to pay no tax by paying a small fee so that we still lose £330M tax income?
Surely the only moral to the OP story is that money is exceptionally unfairly distributed in the world and there is nothing simple that can be done about it. |
Non doms paid c. £8bn in tax pa under the old regime.
They pay exactly the same tax rate as you do on anything earned in the uk hence the £8bn.
My question to you is, why is it do you think dozens of countries globally are doing everything in their power to attract these kinds of people?
Also, nothing unfair about Rokos, read his story. Guy is an absolutely phenomenal risk taker and has been rewarded for it. Came from extremely modest background as well.
EDIT: Oh, and in the process, also set up one of the best hedge funds on the street which employed hundreds of people, mostly in the London office, many of which will have paid tens of millions in tax which pay for the roads you drive on and the shcool your kids go to... [Post edited 8 Sep 21:06]
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| Another £330 million per annum slips out of the Coffers. on 21:35 - Sep 8 with 302 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Another £330 million per annum slips out of the Coffers. on 19:43 - Sep 8 by Illinoisblue |
Wait, I thought the transfer window was shut? |
Free transfer? Free for him anyway lol | |
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| Another £330 million per annum slips out of the Coffers. on 21:40 - Sep 8 with 294 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Another £330 million per annum slips out of the Coffers. on 20:17 - Sep 8 by Nthsuffolkblue |
So the answer to losing £330M tax income is to allow them to pay no tax by paying a small fee so that we still lose £330M tax income?
Surely the only moral to the OP story is that money is exceptionally unfairly distributed in the world and there is nothing simple that can be done about it. |
Or rejoin the EU and recoup more than 10x as much through taxation on added economic activity, plus the significantly larger contribution to businesses and employees? And then people who don’t want to contribute fairly to the joint project of UK PLC can bog off?
(I realise it’s a bit more complicated than that, but as a top level strategy we could do a lot worse. Indeed we already are doing a lot worse). | |
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| Another £330 million per annum slips out of the Coffers. on 22:21 - Sep 8 with 231 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Another £330 million per annum slips out of the Coffers. on 21:01 - Sep 8 by nrb1985 |
Non doms paid c. £8bn in tax pa under the old regime.
They pay exactly the same tax rate as you do on anything earned in the uk hence the £8bn.
My question to you is, why is it do you think dozens of countries globally are doing everything in their power to attract these kinds of people?
Also, nothing unfair about Rokos, read his story. Guy is an absolutely phenomenal risk taker and has been rewarded for it. Came from extremely modest background as well.
EDIT: Oh, and in the process, also set up one of the best hedge funds on the street which employed hundreds of people, mostly in the London office, many of which will have paid tens of millions in tax which pay for the roads you drive on and the shcool your kids go to... [Post edited 8 Sep 21:06]
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Those are fair points but I think mine are still very valid. I don't think attracting them does much to redistribute wealth. The level of inequality in the world is ridiculous regardless of whether the richest are virtuous, evil, or something in between. | |
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| Another £330 million per annum slips out of the Coffers. on 22:23 - Sep 8 with 227 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Another £330 million per annum slips out of the Coffers. on 21:40 - Sep 8 by Swansea_Blue |
Or rejoin the EU and recoup more than 10x as much through taxation on added economic activity, plus the significantly larger contribution to businesses and employees? And then people who don’t want to contribute fairly to the joint project of UK PLC can bog off?
(I realise it’s a bit more complicated than that, but as a top level strategy we could do a lot worse. Indeed we already are doing a lot worse). |
Oh absolutely, those who led us out of the EU did huge levels of harm to the country. They are largely the same ones shouting loudly to scapegoat immigrants too.
The lesson of history is that people don't learn the lesson of history. | |
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| Another £330 million per annum slips out of the Coffers. on 22:28 - Sep 8 with 215 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Another £330 million per annum slips out of the Coffers. on 21:01 - Sep 8 by nrb1985 |
Non doms paid c. £8bn in tax pa under the old regime.
They pay exactly the same tax rate as you do on anything earned in the uk hence the £8bn.
My question to you is, why is it do you think dozens of countries globally are doing everything in their power to attract these kinds of people?
Also, nothing unfair about Rokos, read his story. Guy is an absolutely phenomenal risk taker and has been rewarded for it. Came from extremely modest background as well.
EDIT: Oh, and in the process, also set up one of the best hedge funds on the street which employed hundreds of people, mostly in the London office, many of which will have paid tens of millions in tax which pay for the roads you drive on and the shcool your kids go to... [Post edited 8 Sep 21:06]
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That’s all great; I’m pleased for him. But what’s wrong with asking everyone, from self-made billionaire risk takers to part-time shop workers to be fairly treated by the tax system? Just because someone is stunningly rich and employs hundreds of people, why should they have a lower personal tax rate? Thousands of SME business owners employing just a couple of people will do more for employment opportunities, but they don’t get to shield their earnings through tax breaks. There are inconsistencies all over the place in our system and this weird fetishing of the super rich is just driving greater inequality and poverty. | |
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| Another £330 million per annum slips out of the Coffers. on 22:32 - Sep 8 with 209 views | nrb1985 |
| Another £330 million per annum slips out of the Coffers. on 22:21 - Sep 8 by Nthsuffolkblue |
Those are fair points but I think mine are still very valid. I don't think attracting them does much to redistribute wealth. The level of inequality in the world is ridiculous regardless of whether the richest are virtuous, evil, or something in between. |
No but bringing them here likely puts more money in the coffers to pay for things like healthcare for an ageing population…
Redistributing wealth doesn’t come into it. It’s about putting more money into OUR public purse not in that of Italy, Dubai or Greece. | | | |
| Another £330 million per annum slips out of the Coffers. on 22:36 - Sep 8 with 196 views | nrb1985 |
| Another £330 million per annum slips out of the Coffers. on 22:28 - Sep 8 by Swansea_Blue |
That’s all great; I’m pleased for him. But what’s wrong with asking everyone, from self-made billionaire risk takers to part-time shop workers to be fairly treated by the tax system? Just because someone is stunningly rich and employs hundreds of people, why should they have a lower personal tax rate? Thousands of SME business owners employing just a couple of people will do more for employment opportunities, but they don’t get to shield their earnings through tax breaks. There are inconsistencies all over the place in our system and this weird fetishing of the super rich is just driving greater inequality and poverty. |
Nothing is wrong with that and in a perfect world that’s probably how it would work.
But it’s never ever going to happen because every other country in the world will welcome them in with open arms because they are such a net financial benefit. | | | |
| Another £330 million per annum slips out of the Coffers. on 23:25 - Sep 8 with 154 views | Clapham_Junction |
| Another £330 million per annum slips out of the Coffers. on 15:42 - Sep 8 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Yes I understand it is 100% motivated by greed, however it’s still not reasonable to double tax somebody. Effectively it would make you a prisoner in the UK, I was looking at going to work in Switzerland, if I had to pay tax to both domiciles it wouldn’t be viable. Also, again not specific to this guy but you aren’t really using public services if you aren’t domiciled in a place.
In my opinion the ire should be directed at places that offer these golden visas a leading a race to the bottom. |
It's not double taxation. It's saying if your tax rate overseas is lower than the UK, you pay the difference to the UK.
The Falkland Islands operates the same system. |  | | |
| Another £330 million per annum slips out of the Coffers. on 04:03 - Sep 9 with 105 views | Kropotkin123 |
| Another £330 million per annum slips out of the Coffers. on 18:09 - Sep 8 by Axeldalai_lama |
Correct me if I'm wrong but paying millions in tax would mean earning almost definitely billions whilst in this country. Why would there need to be a 'breaking point'? Why would his time here need to be 'done'?
This is all obviously speculation based on him wanting to pay less tax. Not just moving for the weather. If he is moving only to pay less tax, then that can be attacked from many sides, not that he'll care, I'm sure. |
Well, quite, and I think focusing on the individuals is the real diversion tactic. It is the companies society should be going after.
https://www.theguardian.com/bu -
- 35m taken from uk consumers
- 40m gets sent oversees
- 0 gets taxed.
- The company undercut locals by running at uncompetitive prices, then raised them when their competition folded
- The alternative to a massive centralized company like this is space for thousands of thriving, tax-paying entrepreneurs that generate wealth for themselves, stay in the UK, spend in the UK, employ others.
Here's a tax overview of 7 companies in 2021. 2bn in tax revenue lost:
https://www.taxwatchuk.org/sev
7 companies... 2bn...
No doubt this guy will be routing profits oversees and steal the wealth of the UK. That theft is the thing to really target.
It's the vast majority of them. You spend your money on a spotify account, whoosh, its gone, no or minimal tax.
Watch as the money companies spend on AI disappear out of the country.
Corporate tax is rotten, it is the real method for stealling from the middle and lower classes. We pay tax, they don't. Small and medium sized company owners will typically complain about tax increases on companies, because they are the only ones held to account, when in fact, they are competing on an unfair playing field. A system rigid against them and then they become the spokespeople for not targeting hardworking company owners.
Countries need to reverse the neo-liberal consensus and support small and medium-sized companies, and effectively tax large ones.
Sorry, ranty, long way of saying he should be taxed at corporate level, but likely won't, and no government is bold enough to take on, because they won't get elected on a platform addressing an issue that a lot of people don't even understand. [Post edited 9 Sep 4:05]
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| Another £330 million per annum slips out of the Coffers. on 06:39 - Sep 9 with 50 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Another £330 million per annum slips out of the Coffers. on 23:25 - Sep 8 by Clapham_Junction |
It's not double taxation. It's saying if your tax rate overseas is lower than the UK, you pay the difference to the UK.
The Falkland Islands operates the same system. |
Yes but you are paying taxes in two jurisdictions- if that country you are domiciled has more expensive living costs (as is the case ins Switzerland), then it makes life much more difficult. I don’t understand why the same people who were anti-Brexit would want to further reduce mobility.
I have been a net tax payer to the UK, so if I were to move abroad I don’t see why I should continue paying to a country where I’m not resident. It’s an incredibly regressive idea in my opinion. Fortunately nobody is likely to agree such a treaty with the UK as it doesn’t have the clout of the US. I’d just look at an exit tax for the HNW which would be a lot easier to enforce. | | | |
| Another £330 million per annum slips out of the Coffers. on 07:01 - Sep 9 with 34 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Another £330 million per annum slips out of the Coffers. on 04:03 - Sep 9 by Kropotkin123 |
Well, quite, and I think focusing on the individuals is the real diversion tactic. It is the companies society should be going after.
https://www.theguardian.com/bu -
- 35m taken from uk consumers
- 40m gets sent oversees
- 0 gets taxed.
- The company undercut locals by running at uncompetitive prices, then raised them when their competition folded
- The alternative to a massive centralized company like this is space for thousands of thriving, tax-paying entrepreneurs that generate wealth for themselves, stay in the UK, spend in the UK, employ others.
Here's a tax overview of 7 companies in 2021. 2bn in tax revenue lost:
https://www.taxwatchuk.org/sev
7 companies... 2bn...
No doubt this guy will be routing profits oversees and steal the wealth of the UK. That theft is the thing to really target.
It's the vast majority of them. You spend your money on a spotify account, whoosh, its gone, no or minimal tax.
Watch as the money companies spend on AI disappear out of the country.
Corporate tax is rotten, it is the real method for stealling from the middle and lower classes. We pay tax, they don't. Small and medium sized company owners will typically complain about tax increases on companies, because they are the only ones held to account, when in fact, they are competing on an unfair playing field. A system rigid against them and then they become the spokespeople for not targeting hardworking company owners.
Countries need to reverse the neo-liberal consensus and support small and medium-sized companies, and effectively tax large ones.
Sorry, ranty, long way of saying he should be taxed at corporate level, but likely won't, and no government is bold enough to take on, because they won't get elected on a platform addressing an issue that a lot of people don't even understand. [Post edited 9 Sep 4:05]
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That’s all very agreeable but clearly easier said than done, we’ve been talking about corporate taxation for years but unless we start putting up trade barriers that’s not going to change. Politicians in the Wrst are desperate for the income as borrowing costs reach record levels.
The Irish have built their entire industrial strategy around it, to the point where they suck in so much capital from elsewhere, the EU have admitted it creates accounting anomalies around GDP growth in the Eurozone (and Ireland’s GDP per capita). It’s effectively dead capital which isn’t even circulating around their economy, but because it keeps plenty employed the Irish have pushed back at the global minimum tax rates. Even the EU can’t agree how to stop it internally, so the isolated UK has no chance. | | | |
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