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Whenever people want the death penalty in here I always think of stuff like this. Regardless of the moral and ethical considerations of the state murdering people, it seems like the biggest argument is that it costs so much and still goes wrong sometimes.
Charles-Henri Sanson personally executed 2,918 people during his career, which included operating the guillotine during the French Revolution. He was the first to use the device in 1792
It worked first time every time, unlike the earlier Scottish version in the 16c called ‘The Scottish Maiden’ that used a horizontal blade so sometimes needed a few drops to get the job done. Long day for the condemned then…
The woman subjected to failed lethal injection beat tortured and killed with her boyfriend a student called Colleen Slemmer in 1996. The victim’s mother wanted her executed.
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When the death penalty doesn't work on 08:48 - Oct 1 with 1985 views
When the death penalty doesn't work on 08:34 - Oct 1 by Churchman
The guillotine was very reliable.
Charles-Henri Sanson personally executed 2,918 people during his career, which included operating the guillotine during the French Revolution. He was the first to use the device in 1792
It worked first time every time, unlike the earlier Scottish version in the 16c called ‘The Scottish Maiden’ that used a horizontal blade so sometimes needed a few drops to get the job done. Long day for the condemned then…
The woman subjected to failed lethal injection beat tortured and killed with her boyfriend a student called Colleen Slemmer in 1996. The victim’s mother wanted her executed.
It's rather interesting really, both the guillotine and even hanging (done correctly with a drop) are pretty "humane" if you are going to do it.
I think people just prefer that lethal injections "look" nicer, which is odd when you are killing someone.
I don't know the ins and outs of what the condemned prisoner experiences with the injection. Is there suffering or do they just drift off to sleep like it's a general anaesthetic? Because if it's the latter I'd choose that all day over a noose, guillotine or firing squad.
When the death penalty doesn't work on 08:54 - Oct 1 by DanTheMan
It's rather interesting really, both the guillotine and even hanging (done correctly with a drop) are pretty "humane" if you are going to do it.
I think people just prefer that lethal injections "look" nicer, which is odd when you are killing someone.
I agree. It’s rather bizarre to try and dress up killing somebody by making it look nicer or more ‘humane’ (lethal injection).
Yes, hanging if done right (e.g. Albert Pierrpoint) is meant to be pretty instant, unlike the offing of the Nuremberg Nazis which took anything up to half an hour. Mind you, one could argue that half an hour struggling at the end of a rope was nothing to what those beasts inflicted on millions of people.
Goes wrong increasingly frequently. In part because they use drugs manufactured in European countries which refuse to export them for that purpose. So they are reduced to less effective substitutes, dubiously obtained supplies and (as I believe in this case) very old stock.
Some DP states have now started exploring other methods of execution, particularly the firing squad. Tho a growing number have simply stopped using it, either through outright abolition or a long term moratorium.
On the moral side, it does strike me that the US political elements most in favour of the death penalty are also most furiously "pro-life" when it comes to abortion and opposed to any kind of gun control. Particularly when seen in conjunction with the levels of unsafe convictions (including inadequate representation two, three or four decades ago when the trial actually took place) and ignoring of mitigation through factors such as mental illness.
When the death penalty doesn't work on 09:10 - Oct 1 by MJallday
Im all for the DP
however, this method (along with a few others) seems cruel and barbaric
there was definately somethign to be said for the firing squad or guillotine.
I'm wholly opposed on every level and don't think there is any place for such an inhumane act in a civilised society, but to add some levity to a very serious subject, your comment about the firing squad perversely led my thoughts to Blackadder. I don't post this to offend and apologies if it has.
"Look, I don't wanna be the same as everybody else. That's why I'm a Mod, see?"
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When the death penalty doesn't work on 09:52 - Oct 1 with 1760 views
When the death penalty doesn't work on 09:44 - Oct 1 by Whos_blue
I'm wholly opposed on every level and don't think there is any place for such an inhumane act in a civilised society, but to add some levity to a very serious subject, your comment about the firing squad perversely led my thoughts to Blackadder. I don't post this to offend and apologies if it has.
i understand why people are opposed - theres so many things that can go wrong with the punishment itself, let alone the burden of proof that is required to even get to that decision.
however, the alternative is to let people sit in a cell for (x) years with no prospect of release or rehabiltiation.
i do believe in the DP - but i dont believe in suffering. get it done, quick. the lethal injection (or even eletric chair or gas) doesnt do that.
no offence was taken btw. we all believe in what we believe in.
When the death penalty doesn't work on 09:02 - Oct 1 by baxterbasics
I don't know the ins and outs of what the condemned prisoner experiences with the injection. Is there suffering or do they just drift off to sleep like it's a general anaesthetic? Because if it's the latter I'd choose that all day over a noose, guillotine or firing squad.
It depends. Pentobarbitol essentially suffocates you to death by suppressing the breathing and lowering heart-rate, so it's all about the preceding anasthesia.
Problems often occur getting drugs into the person's bloodstream (e.g. finding a working vein, particularly in current or former injecting addicts). The advanced age (following decades of incarceration which itself often makes for poor health) by the time execution is finally attempted also being a factor. Plus some of the drugs are hard for US prison authorities to get hold of, so less effective substitutes are used.
Shooting or hanging - if done properly - are considerably quicker. Pierrepoint's record was just 12 seconds from entering the condemned cell to the trapdoor opening (causing immediate unconsciousness).
When the death penalty doesn't work on 09:52 - Oct 1 by MJallday
i understand why people are opposed - theres so many things that can go wrong with the punishment itself, let alone the burden of proof that is required to even get to that decision.
however, the alternative is to let people sit in a cell for (x) years with no prospect of release or rehabiltiation.
i do believe in the DP - but i dont believe in suffering. get it done, quick. the lethal injection (or even eletric chair or gas) doesnt do that.
no offence was taken btw. we all believe in what we believe in.
Tho it is possible to lead an improved and productive life within prison, e.g. by rehabilitating others. There are instances of Death Row prisoners in the US doing just that in the many years between conviction and execution.
Plus it is also a function of the American judicial system which has a "lock them up and throw away the key" attitude which we in the UK mostly don't (as can be seen by the current debate around whether whole life orders are justified).
When the death penalty doesn't work on 08:54 - Oct 1 by DanTheMan
It's rather interesting really, both the guillotine and even hanging (done correctly with a drop) are pretty "humane" if you are going to do it.
I think people just prefer that lethal injections "look" nicer, which is odd when you are killing someone.
Tho it's worth noting that the USA previously used the gas chamber, electric chair and a much less reliable method of hanging, none of which were so swift and effective as the guillotine or the British measured drop (both of which are effectively decapitation, altho the head is not actually removed in the latter).
When the death penalty doesn't work on 10:07 - Oct 1 by FrimleyBlue
Is this case the norm of the process? In jail at 18 but not given injections until 50 years old.
I think it's fairly normal.
It would appear that 25 years of the delay was taken up by a range of appeals, with the remaining time from 2020 onwards being caused by Tennessee suspending executions in 2020 owing to issues with how the lethal injection drugs had been tested.
The process resumed in May 2025 once Tennessee adopted a new single-drug pentobarbital procedure; the efficacy and humanity (for want of a better word) of which is still subject to debate.
Not a prophet, or a stone-age man; just a mortal with potential of a superman.
When the death penalty doesn't work on 08:34 - Oct 1 by Churchman
The guillotine was very reliable.
Charles-Henri Sanson personally executed 2,918 people during his career, which included operating the guillotine during the French Revolution. He was the first to use the device in 1792
It worked first time every time, unlike the earlier Scottish version in the 16c called ‘The Scottish Maiden’ that used a horizontal blade so sometimes needed a few drops to get the job done. Long day for the condemned then…
The woman subjected to failed lethal injection beat tortured and killed with her boyfriend a student called Colleen Slemmer in 1996. The victim’s mother wanted her executed.
At the time, she was eighteen year old and throughout her life she had been subject to sexual, physical and mental abuse. I’m pretty sure that at the time of her crimes (which was barbaric) her brain was underdeveloped.
It doesn’t make her crimes any less awful but if we’re going to be in the business of executing the mentally ill then I’m not sure that will make society better.
In terms of her mother - that’s natural that she was her daughters murderer to be executed but it also proves, to me at least, that justice has to be cold and remote rather than what the victims relatives want.
[Post edited 1 Oct 11:44]
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When the death penalty doesn't work on 10:38 - Oct 1 with 1547 views
When the death penalty doesn't work on 10:30 - Oct 1 by MattinLondon
At the time, she was eighteen year old and throughout her life she had been subject to sexual, physical and mental abuse. I’m pretty sure that at the time of her crimes (which was barbaric) her brain was underdeveloped.
It doesn’t make her crimes any less awful but if we’re going to be in the business of executing the mentally ill then I’m not sure that will make society better.
In terms of her mother - that’s natural that she was her daughters murderer to be executed but it also proves, to me at least, that justice has to be cold and remote rather than what the victims relatives want.
[Post edited 1 Oct 11:44]
One of the things that saddens me the most about the whole debacle last night, and seems particularly mawkish, is that the victim's parents fund-raised in order to travel from Florida to Tennessee in order to witness the execution.
I can understand why they may want the death penalty to be imposed - even if I fundamentally disagree with it. But being that keen to watch the sentence being carried out all seems a little unpleasant.
Not a prophet, or a stone-age man; just a mortal with potential of a superman.
When the death penalty doesn't work on 10:40 - Oct 1 by mellowblue
definite deterrent value in the rope or the chair though !!!
That's not borne out by the evidence. Otherwise one would expect death penalty states to have much lower murder rates than those which are not. Which isn't the case. There's no evidence it put people off in Britain during the 1950s (Brady and Hindley, for example).
Murders tend to take place in blind rage/passion, or are planned so the perpetrator expects not to be caught, anyway.
When the death penalty doesn't work on 10:38 - Oct 1 by Zx1988
One of the things that saddens me the most about the whole debacle last night, and seems particularly mawkish, is that the victim's parents fund-raised in order to travel from Florida to Tennessee in order to witness the execution.
I can understand why they may want the death penalty to be imposed - even if I fundamentally disagree with it. But being that keen to watch the sentence being carried out all seems a little unpleasant.
I listened to a podcast yesterday, the Mum was going there and planning to hold up a large photo of her daughter as the execution took place.
The murderer had come from a horrible background, obviously doesn't excuse it, but her boyfriend didn't get death penalty and the other person who took part turned states witness and got away with it - whilst this lady administered the final blow she'd been repeatedly raped when she was in kindergarten and all through school.
None of that was in the trial, and if she was trialled today would no way get the death penalty
When the death penalty doesn't work on 10:38 - Oct 1 by Zx1988
One of the things that saddens me the most about the whole debacle last night, and seems particularly mawkish, is that the victim's parents fund-raised in order to travel from Florida to Tennessee in order to witness the execution.
I can understand why they may want the death penalty to be imposed - even if I fundamentally disagree with it. But being that keen to watch the sentence being carried out all seems a little unpleasant.
The whole thing is a bit beyond my comprehension, tbh, but I fully understand why the mother feels as she does. As I sit here with a cup of tea I’d want to be there to cheer the last gasp too or even press the button on the drugs.
But then I would beg for the perpetrator of a crime like that to anyone close to me to be released - so I could deal with it.
However in terms of a state or national policy one has to take the personal out of it and in all conscience if I was an MP capital not something I could vote for.
Am I being contradictory on this? Totally, but I make no apologies for it.
Back to the earlier point, the use of lethal injection that sounds sort of civilised seems the complete opposite. Electric chair? I’ve seen the Green Mile and I don’t suppose it’s accurate but from the fragments I’ve read, yet another experiment of US using new technology back in the early 20c and failing dismally
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