| Loan Manager/Van Oevelen on 11:41 - Nov 11 | tractorboy1978 |
Hate to say I told people so but...
Especially galling when we are struggling in the GK position. KVO is obviously better than the pair with have here with his feet. In other aspects the jury is perhaps out but neither Walton or Scherpen are saving us points on a net basis at the moment. |  | |  |
| Loan Manager/Van Oevelen on 11:49 - Nov 11 | jayessess |
| Loan Manager/Van Oevelen on 11:41 - Nov 11 by tractorboy1978 |
Hate to say I told people so but...
Especially galling when we are struggling in the GK position. KVO is obviously better than the pair with have here with his feet. In other aspects the jury is perhaps out but neither Walton or Scherpen are saving us points on a net basis at the moment. |
And sure, fine, the manager takes a judgement on which keepers are going to be of immediate use and which not.
I'm not sure how we get from there to loaning him out to a club with probably a better first choice keeper than we have! |  |
| |
| Loan Manager/Van Oevelen on 11:57 - Nov 11 | HighgateBlue |
Presumably more senior figures at the club were of the view that there were at least 2, if not 3, GKs at Town who were likely to be ahead of Van Oevelen in the pecking order, and hence he was at least as unlikely to start here. That may or may not have been a sensible call.
We've got a recall option in January if he doesn't play regularly. It appears that he will not play regularly. So we can limit the harm. But then, we'd need to be able to get rid of at least one other keeper here. It makes no sense to have KVO here in addition to Walton, Scherpen anddd Palmer.
So yes, it does seem odd to send someone out who is unlikely to get game time, but maybe it was thought that sitting on the bench experiencing something different there would give him something that sitting on the bench here would not. However curious a decision it may seem, I don't think it's harmed us as much as the other decisions in the GK position.
I must say, I find many of our goalkeeping recruitment decisions quite baffling, going back around a quarter of a century.
Our time in the top flight has been hobbled by self-inflicted weakness in that position ever since Richard Wright. Sereni/Marshall, Muric, letting Hladky go. Even going back to oddnesses like Neil Alexander leaving, and taking the cash for Kelvin Davis, although I appreciate the stakes are far lower outside the Prem. This is our long-term Achilles heel position in terms of recruitment, it seems to me.
When we have had cash to splash, we have not splashed it in that position. An above average No.1 keeper is extremely valuable in the Premier League, and yet we've taken risk after risk. Muric was a spicy purchase - live by the sword, die by the sword. But he was the best we had at the time, as has been shown since. We binned him off. Scherpen has been brought in as another supposed gem that we've found. But after a less than impressive start, he's been dumped in favour of Walton, who has been in and out of our team for years, even in League One. The Third Division. Safe pair of hands? Not at prem level. And certainly not a safe pair of feet at any level.
If we'd have signed a top keeper instead of two not-top-keepers in the summer plus Kasey McAteer before that, we would stay up this season. We may yet. But it's a lot harder when you have a seemingly genetic inability to recruit a successful keeper for the Premier League. |  | | |
| Loan Manager/Van Oevelen on 11:59 - Nov 11 | Billywitch |
"Like, I'm just an ordinary member of the public who watches a lot of La Liga and I could have told them that:"
Why have you added that "like" at the start of this?
edit - squiz and samwhiteuk are 15 year old girls and use the terms "like" for no reason at all [Post edited 11 Nov 14:59]
| | | |
| Loan Manager/Van Oevelen on 12:28 - Nov 11 | LankHenners |
Did think it was an odd move all round at the time given, like us, they weren't trying to sign him in the summer to be first choice. Perhaps Scherpen's deal dragging on a bit then being injured to begin with scuppered other loan plans for KVO and we thought this was the best option due to their previous keenness in him.
About an obvious a 'recall and rethink' move in January as you can get! |  |
| |
| Loan Manager/Van Oevelen on 12:40 - Nov 11 | WolfieAtTheBack |
| Loan Manager/Van Oevelen on 11:57 - Nov 11 by HighgateBlue |
Presumably more senior figures at the club were of the view that there were at least 2, if not 3, GKs at Town who were likely to be ahead of Van Oevelen in the pecking order, and hence he was at least as unlikely to start here. That may or may not have been a sensible call.
We've got a recall option in January if he doesn't play regularly. It appears that he will not play regularly. So we can limit the harm. But then, we'd need to be able to get rid of at least one other keeper here. It makes no sense to have KVO here in addition to Walton, Scherpen anddd Palmer.
So yes, it does seem odd to send someone out who is unlikely to get game time, but maybe it was thought that sitting on the bench experiencing something different there would give him something that sitting on the bench here would not. However curious a decision it may seem, I don't think it's harmed us as much as the other decisions in the GK position.
I must say, I find many of our goalkeeping recruitment decisions quite baffling, going back around a quarter of a century.
Our time in the top flight has been hobbled by self-inflicted weakness in that position ever since Richard Wright. Sereni/Marshall, Muric, letting Hladky go. Even going back to oddnesses like Neil Alexander leaving, and taking the cash for Kelvin Davis, although I appreciate the stakes are far lower outside the Prem. This is our long-term Achilles heel position in terms of recruitment, it seems to me.
When we have had cash to splash, we have not splashed it in that position. An above average No.1 keeper is extremely valuable in the Premier League, and yet we've taken risk after risk. Muric was a spicy purchase - live by the sword, die by the sword. But he was the best we had at the time, as has been shown since. We binned him off. Scherpen has been brought in as another supposed gem that we've found. But after a less than impressive start, he's been dumped in favour of Walton, who has been in and out of our team for years, even in League One. The Third Division. Safe pair of hands? Not at prem level. And certainly not a safe pair of feet at any level.
If we'd have signed a top keeper instead of two not-top-keepers in the summer plus Kasey McAteer before that, we would stay up this season. We may yet. But it's a lot harder when you have a seemingly genetic inability to recruit a successful keeper for the Premier League. |
The underlying question here is who is supplying this so called data for keepers and who is the analyst.
The methodology for recruiting in this area is clearly well off.
Only option here is he comes back to Town and we loan him out again in January to a British side where the deal outlines he starts games if that is the plan. |  | | |
| Loan Manager/Van Oevelen on 12:44 - Nov 11 | bartyg |
| Loan Manager/Van Oevelen on 12:28 - Nov 11 by LankHenners |
Did think it was an odd move all round at the time given, like us, they weren't trying to sign him in the summer to be first choice. Perhaps Scherpen's deal dragging on a bit then being injured to begin with scuppered other loan plans for KVO and we thought this was the best option due to their previous keenness in him.
About an obvious a 'recall and rethink' move in January as you can get! |
They've stated that to be true iirc. He had a loan lined up with a championship side, but then Walton got injured and they weren't sure if he would have to spend a season here.
Later on I guess they couldn't shift Palmer and therefore reapproached Valencia. |  |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Loan Manager/Van Oevelen on 12:44 - Nov 11 | tractorboy1978 |
| Loan Manager/Van Oevelen on 11:57 - Nov 11 by HighgateBlue |
Presumably more senior figures at the club were of the view that there were at least 2, if not 3, GKs at Town who were likely to be ahead of Van Oevelen in the pecking order, and hence he was at least as unlikely to start here. That may or may not have been a sensible call.
We've got a recall option in January if he doesn't play regularly. It appears that he will not play regularly. So we can limit the harm. But then, we'd need to be able to get rid of at least one other keeper here. It makes no sense to have KVO here in addition to Walton, Scherpen anddd Palmer.
So yes, it does seem odd to send someone out who is unlikely to get game time, but maybe it was thought that sitting on the bench experiencing something different there would give him something that sitting on the bench here would not. However curious a decision it may seem, I don't think it's harmed us as much as the other decisions in the GK position.
I must say, I find many of our goalkeeping recruitment decisions quite baffling, going back around a quarter of a century.
Our time in the top flight has been hobbled by self-inflicted weakness in that position ever since Richard Wright. Sereni/Marshall, Muric, letting Hladky go. Even going back to oddnesses like Neil Alexander leaving, and taking the cash for Kelvin Davis, although I appreciate the stakes are far lower outside the Prem. This is our long-term Achilles heel position in terms of recruitment, it seems to me.
When we have had cash to splash, we have not splashed it in that position. An above average No.1 keeper is extremely valuable in the Premier League, and yet we've taken risk after risk. Muric was a spicy purchase - live by the sword, die by the sword. But he was the best we had at the time, as has been shown since. We binned him off. Scherpen has been brought in as another supposed gem that we've found. But after a less than impressive start, he's been dumped in favour of Walton, who has been in and out of our team for years, even in League One. The Third Division. Safe pair of hands? Not at prem level. And certainly not a safe pair of feet at any level.
If we'd have signed a top keeper instead of two not-top-keepers in the summer plus Kasey McAteer before that, we would stay up this season. We may yet. But it's a lot harder when you have a seemingly genetic inability to recruit a successful keeper for the Premier League. |
He came here with a very similar profile to Roefs at Sunderland. Big, commanding, excellent with his feet, same sort of age, off the back of a really good season in the Dutch top tier at a lesser club. I have a couple of mates that watch a fair bit of Dutch football and they really rated him when we signed him. One of them at the time said he's already better than Scherpen. Sunderland backed Roefs and he was great last season.
If the powers that be didn't think he was already better than Walton (a Championship level goalkeeper) then I don't really know why we signed him to begin with. [Post edited 11 Nov 12:46]
| | | |
| Loan Manager/Van Oevelen on 12:48 - Nov 11 | Vaughan8 |
"- That Valencia are a basket case and we shouldn't take any promises of regular match time at face value, especially because..."
Maybe they didn't promise game time. Maybe they just needed cover and we've put the clause in so that we can recall him if he's not getting games.
Presumably they've made some financial contribution towards a fee or wages so there is that element.
If he'd have stayed, we'd have had 4 senior goalkeepers? One at least had to go out and maybe he was the only one we could ship out. | | | |
| Loan Manager/Van Oevelen on 13:34 - Nov 11 | thecheek |
Assuming he was seen as our 3rd or even 4th choice keeper then I'm struggling to see the logic in loaning him out to a club where he would be in exactly the same situation.
He doesn't get any proper game time (assume he was mostly a spectator last night) and we don't get to see what form he is in.... |  | | |
| Loan Manager/Van Oevelen on 14:46 - Nov 11 | FrimleyBlue |
Didn't they change manager after they signed him? |  |
| |
| Loan Manager/Van Oevelen on 14:59 - Nov 11 | _CliveBaker_ |
| Loan Manager/Van Oevelen on 11:57 - Nov 11 by HighgateBlue |
Presumably more senior figures at the club were of the view that there were at least 2, if not 3, GKs at Town who were likely to be ahead of Van Oevelen in the pecking order, and hence he was at least as unlikely to start here. That may or may not have been a sensible call.
We've got a recall option in January if he doesn't play regularly. It appears that he will not play regularly. So we can limit the harm. But then, we'd need to be able to get rid of at least one other keeper here. It makes no sense to have KVO here in addition to Walton, Scherpen anddd Palmer.
So yes, it does seem odd to send someone out who is unlikely to get game time, but maybe it was thought that sitting on the bench experiencing something different there would give him something that sitting on the bench here would not. However curious a decision it may seem, I don't think it's harmed us as much as the other decisions in the GK position.
I must say, I find many of our goalkeeping recruitment decisions quite baffling, going back around a quarter of a century.
Our time in the top flight has been hobbled by self-inflicted weakness in that position ever since Richard Wright. Sereni/Marshall, Muric, letting Hladky go. Even going back to oddnesses like Neil Alexander leaving, and taking the cash for Kelvin Davis, although I appreciate the stakes are far lower outside the Prem. This is our long-term Achilles heel position in terms of recruitment, it seems to me.
When we have had cash to splash, we have not splashed it in that position. An above average No.1 keeper is extremely valuable in the Premier League, and yet we've taken risk after risk. Muric was a spicy purchase - live by the sword, die by the sword. But he was the best we had at the time, as has been shown since. We binned him off. Scherpen has been brought in as another supposed gem that we've found. But after a less than impressive start, he's been dumped in favour of Walton, who has been in and out of our team for years, even in League One. The Third Division. Safe pair of hands? Not at prem level. And certainly not a safe pair of feet at any level.
If we'd have signed a top keeper instead of two not-top-keepers in the summer plus Kasey McAteer before that, we would stay up this season. We may yet. But it's a lot harder when you have a seemingly genetic inability to recruit a successful keeper for the Premier League. |
Agree with a lot of that.
Keeper is a position where I don't really like a lot of competition. 2 schools of thought and you hear the 'good to keep being pushed' stuff parroted, but I've always preferred a distinct #1. Get a capable number 1 and back them to the hilt, with an able and ideally experienced understudy who is happy to play that role. Fewer and better for me, we don't need 4 keepers all of a relatively similar standing. I'd much rather have a #1 who knows they're #1, can stick their chest out without the fear that 1 mistake has them benched, and have that confidence in their position and role in the dressing room.
I think Hull have got it right with Tzolakis and Butland. Tzolakis might make mistakes, but he's 24, they've gone relatively big on him, and he'll be there to stay for the season. There are enough positions on the pitch where you have selection dilemma's, keeper shouldn't be one of them. |  | | |
| Loan Manager/Van Oevelen on 15:18 - Nov 11 | mutters |
| Loan Manager/Van Oevelen on 11:41 - Nov 11 by tractorboy1978 |
Hate to say I told people so but...
Especially galling when we are struggling in the GK position. KVO is obviously better than the pair with have here with his feet. In other aspects the jury is perhaps out but neither Walton or Scherpen are saving us points on a net basis at the moment. |
We've only seen him play briefly for us, so really we have no idea what he would be like over a few games or a whole season. Yes be looked decent but please don't build him up as our best goalkeeper because as soon as he myake a mistake, which he will, then the pile on will begin.
GON saw him preseason and decided that what we had was better. I trust him more than armchair fans who may have only seen him fleetingly |  |
| |
| Loan Manager/Van Oevelen on 15:45 - Nov 11 | tractorboy1978 |
| Loan Manager/Van Oevelen on 15:18 - Nov 11 by mutters |
We've only seen him play briefly for us, so really we have no idea what he would be like over a few games or a whole season. Yes be looked decent but please don't build him up as our best goalkeeper because as soon as he myake a mistake, which he will, then the pile on will begin.
GON saw him preseason and decided that what we had was better. I trust him more than armchair fans who may have only seen him fleetingly |
I said he's the best keeper we have with his feet. Hardly controversial. | | | |
| Loan Manager/Van Oevelen on 15:50 - Nov 11 | PhilTWTD |
They wanted him to go somewhere where he was going to gain greater experience at a high level having only had one season in the Eredivisie. Gary O'Neil said they knew it wasn't going to be a given he was going to go straight into the team and that he would have to battle for his place.
|  | | |
| Loan Manager/Van Oevelen on 15:54 - Nov 11 | mutters |
| Loan Manager/Van Oevelen on 15:45 - Nov 11 by tractorboy1978 |
I said he's the best keeper we have with his feet. Hardly controversial. |
How many times have you seen him play? | |
| |
| Loan Manager/Van Oevelen on 16:03 - Nov 11 | Ruby |
He's exactly the kind of signing Brighton make on the regular. Super promising youngster who doesn't threaten the first team but slots straight in 2 years time as he knows the setup and has been away getting game time on loan.
Suppose it does help if you already have a no1 in place. It'll take a while before we're as good at it as Brighton. |  | | |
| Loan Manager/Van Oevelen on 16:06 - Nov 11 | FrimleyBlue |
| Loan Manager/Van Oevelen on 15:54 - Nov 11 by mutters |
How many times have you seen him play? |
He's 100% the best keeper with the ball, Think he was a midfielder up until the age of 14
He can't catch much though, that's his development route
Looking forward to seeing him in a few years time. | |
| |
| Loan Manager/Van Oevelen on 16:09 - Nov 11 | HighgateBlue |
| Loan Manager/Van Oevelen on 12:40 - Nov 11 by WolfieAtTheBack |
The underlying question here is who is supplying this so called data for keepers and who is the analyst.
The methodology for recruiting in this area is clearly well off.
Only option here is he comes back to Town and we loan him out again in January to a British side where the deal outlines he starts games if that is the plan. |
I tend to agree.
And I would emphasise that I make no criticism of KVO, and I'm not sure anyone reasonably can.
It may yet turn out that he is excellent, and our long term number one. But he's not really on that road right now, or any road really. The path at ITFC from promising young keeper to established in the side could be a lot, well, /slicker/. | | | |
| Loan Manager/Van Oevelen on 16:19 - Nov 11 | tractorboy1978 |
| Loan Manager/Van Oevelen on 15:54 - Nov 11 by mutters |
How many times have you seen him play? |
A couple of pre-season games. And as I said I have a couple of mates that watch a lot of Dutch football. He's very comfortable with the ball at his feet and spreading the ball around. Something neither of the ones we have here right now are. | | | |
| Loan Manager/Van Oevelen on 16:33 - Nov 11 | WolfieAtTheBack |
| Loan Manager/Van Oevelen on 16:09 - Nov 11 by HighgateBlue |
I tend to agree.
And I would emphasise that I make no criticism of KVO, and I'm not sure anyone reasonably can.
It may yet turn out that he is excellent, and our long term number one. But he's not really on that road right now, or any road really. The path at ITFC from promising young keeper to established in the side could be a lot, well, /slicker/. |
The goalkeeping situation as much about tactics as the player.
If they can't kick then don't ball out from the back, we are not Barcelona and no one expects is to be, yet. | | | |
| Loan Manager/Van Oevelen on 17:21 - Nov 11 | itfcjoe |
| Loan Manager/Van Oevelen on 15:54 - Nov 11 by mutters |
How many times have you seen him play? |
I don't think Walton is particularly poor with his feet, but was clear even from pre season that van Oevelen is Hladky level with his and looked absolute quality in that regard |  |
| |
| Loan Manager/Van Oevelen on 17:26 - Nov 11 | Dubtractor |
| Loan Manager/Van Oevelen on 17:21 - Nov 11 by itfcjoe |
I don't think Walton is particularly poor with his feet, but was clear even from pre season that van Oevelen is Hladky level with his and looked absolute quality in that regard |
Walton's distribution is fine, but he is slow in his decision making in distribution, in my opinion anyway! |  |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
