| Speeding Fine question 08:36 - Jul 27 with 12859 views | hype313 |
I received a NIP in the post yesterday for a speeding offence whilst doing 35 in a 30. The offence took place on 17/04/17 and the letter was dated the 24/7/17, having read a few sites including Gov.co.uk it states they must issue the NIP within 14 days of the offence, otherwise it is null and void, is this true and has anyone had similar experience? |  |
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| Speeding Fine question on 08:40 - Jul 27 with 8362 views | MJallday |
They have 14 days to inform You. So you could potentially argue this. I'd seek advice from a motoring lawyer though
Incidentally if you get stopped at side of road by a copper that is classed as your NIP then they have 6 months.... |  |
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| Speeding Fine question on 08:42 - Jul 27 with 8342 views | hype313 |
| Speeding Fine question on 08:40 - Jul 27 by MJallday |
They have 14 days to inform You. So you could potentially argue this. I'd seek advice from a motoring lawyer though
Incidentally if you get stopped at side of road by a copper that is classed as your NIP then they have 6 months.... |
Cheers, Yep, did see that, but I wasn't stopped, it was a camera. | |
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| Speeding Fine question on 08:53 - Jul 27 with 8305 views | Basuco |
Ignore, date read incorrectly [Post edited 27 Jul 2017 8:56]
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| Speeding Fine question on 09:19 - Jul 27 with 8230 views | hoppy |
I thought it was just an ok question, to be honest. |  |
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| Speeding Fine question on 09:30 - Jul 27 with 8205 views | GeoffSentence |
| Speeding Fine question on 09:19 - Jul 27 by hoppy |
I thought it was just an ok question, to be honest. |
"Wherever there is punning, you will find me
Wherever there is a play on words, I will be there
Wherever comedy is threatened you will find, TWTD's Hoppio"
Source - Great speeches of our time - Hoppy's eulogy on the neccessity of puns. |  |
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| Speeding Fine question on 10:19 - Jul 27 with 8072 views | J2BLUE |
| Speeding Fine question on 09:30 - Jul 27 by GeoffSentence |
"Wherever there is punning, you will find me
Wherever there is a play on words, I will be there
Wherever comedy is threatened you will find, TWTD's Hoppio"
Source - Great speeches of our time - Hoppy's eulogy on the neccessity of puns. |
"Wherever comedy is threatened you will find, TWTD's Hoppio"
Couldn't agree more! Stop threatening comedy hoppy! |  |
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| Speeding Fine question on 11:01 - Jul 27 with 8007 views | homer_123 |
Be very careful.
All the Police need to say is that they sent you an NIP within 14 days, they don't have to provide proof it arrived. Hence they don't use registered/ signed for. |  |
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| Speeding Fine question on 11:01 - Jul 27 with 8000 views | hype313 |
| Speeding Fine question on 11:01 - Jul 27 by homer_123 |
Be very careful.
All the Police need to say is that they sent you an NIP within 14 days, they don't have to provide proof it arrived. Hence they don't use registered/ signed for. |
But the letter is dated on the 24th July! | |
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| Speeding Fine question on 11:03 - Jul 27 with 7998 views | uefacup81 |
| Speeding Fine question on 11:01 - Jul 27 by homer_123 |
Be very careful.
All the Police need to say is that they sent you an NIP within 14 days, they don't have to provide proof it arrived. Hence they don't use registered/ signed for. |
They would need to prove that it was sent, though.
Given the date on the letter is well outside the 14-day window, they would need to provide proof of a first letter that, mystically, never arrived. |  |
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| Speeding Fine question on 11:04 - Jul 27 with 7986 views | homer_123 |
| Speeding Fine question on 11:03 - Jul 27 by uefacup81 |
They would need to prove that it was sent, though.
Given the date on the letter is well outside the 14-day window, they would need to provide proof of a first letter that, mystically, never arrived. |
Oh I'm well aware of this situation from personal experience. | |
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| Speeding Fine question on 11:05 - Jul 27 with 7986 views | homer_123 |
| Speeding Fine question on 11:01 - Jul 27 by hype313 |
But the letter is dated on the 24th July! |
That letter is indeed dates the 24th July....what I am saying is that the police simply need to say they posted you one in April within 14 days of the offence. | |
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| Speeding Fine question on 11:08 - Jul 27 with 7972 views | GeoffSentence |
| Speeding Fine question on 11:05 - Jul 27 by homer_123 |
That letter is indeed dates the 24th July....what I am saying is that the police simply need to say they posted you one in April within 14 days of the offence. |
What? And say sorry about the date on the letter, it was just a typo. Do you think they could get away with that? | |
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| Speeding Fine question on 11:19 - Jul 27 with 7944 views | homer_123 |
| Speeding Fine question on 11:08 - Jul 27 by GeoffSentence |
What? And say sorry about the date on the letter, it was just a typo. Do you think they could get away with that? |
Here's the situ:
1. Police send NIP outside 14 day period
2. They are required to prove they sent one within the 14 day period
What proof do they need to provide? Merely that it was posted - no more than that. How do you prove it was posted? Simple, an employee of the police force states they posted it.
How do I know this. I've been on the receiving end of the exact situation. I challenged and was sent documentation from the force which was a written a signed statement from an employee that they had posted it. Note here that it was send via 2nd class post, not signed for or registered, they don't have to provide proof it arrived. I checked with solicitor and they confirmed that the Court would accept this as proof of the NIP being sent within 14 days. | |
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| Speeding Fine question on 11:35 - Jul 27 with 7902 views | GeoffSentence |
| Speeding Fine question on 11:19 - Jul 27 by homer_123 |
Here's the situ:
1. Police send NIP outside 14 day period
2. They are required to prove they sent one within the 14 day period
What proof do they need to provide? Merely that it was posted - no more than that. How do you prove it was posted? Simple, an employee of the police force states they posted it.
How do I know this. I've been on the receiving end of the exact situation. I challenged and was sent documentation from the force which was a written a signed statement from an employee that they had posted it. Note here that it was send via 2nd class post, not signed for or registered, they don't have to provide proof it arrived. I checked with solicitor and they confirmed that the Court would accept this as proof of the NIP being sent within 14 days. |
I can well believe that. The police are in a privileged position when it comes to legal process. But I still think they Will have problems getting round the fact that they themselves put a date of 24th July on the letter. | |
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| Speeding Fine question on 11:39 - Jul 27 with 7877 views | hype313 |
| Speeding Fine question on 11:35 - Jul 27 by GeoffSentence |
I can well believe that. The police are in a privileged position when it comes to legal process. But I still think they Will have problems getting round the fact that they themselves put a date of 24th July on the letter. |
Although it is Norfolk Constabulary now as they have merged with Suffolk, and given Lucans experience, I'm not confident I'll get off! | |
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| Speeding Fine question on 11:51 - Jul 27 with 7849 views | JustSpivvyChops |
Nip IS REQUIRED to arrive within 14 days of the day of the offence..........however, there are allowances, eg it's a company car so takes longer to get to the driver via hire company etc. In those instances the 14 day limit wouldn't apply, also if details at DVLA were out of date etc, same outcome, 14 day doesn't count.
If you are the registered keeper of the vehicle (and were for some time prior to the incident) and your address details on DVLA are up to date then the NIP MUST arrive within 14 days of the offence, because there's no plausible excuse the Police can use for the delay getting the letter to you. As the letter is clearly dated a hell of a long time after 14 days of the date of the offence, it is extremely supportive of your argument.
There is still a requirement to provide your driver details (technically this could be argued, but in real world best just to do it) but you should add to your response that you do not accept the NIP as legislation requires that the NIP arrives no later than 14 days from the date of the offence (as long as you have met the requirements I mentioned above regarding keeper and address) and also highlight that the letter is dated some time after the 14 day period.
Hopefully they'll roll over and cancel the ticket........but probably not. Next course of action depends on their response to your "time barred" claim and what detail they respond with. |  | | |
| Speeding Fine question on 11:55 - Jul 27 with 7834 views | homer_123 |
| Speeding Fine question on 11:35 - Jul 27 by GeoffSentence |
I can well believe that. The police are in a privileged position when it comes to legal process. But I still think they Will have problems getting round the fact that they themselves put a date of 24th July on the letter. |
Not really - all they need to do is provide proof that an earlier letter was sent....no more than that. | |
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| Speeding Fine question on 12:01 - Jul 27 with 7821 views | Pinewoodblue |
You presumably know the location and time of day of the alleged offence. My guess is you were at the time and location given on 17th July and it is just a typo. Not sure they can get away with a typo on a NIP. Ring them but not until at least fifteen days after the date you think they meant to put in the letter.
If they try and say it doesn't matter if they get the date wrong you need to get legal advice. Your motoring organisation, or legal expenses insurer should be in a position to advise, or put you in touch with someone who can do śo at no cost to yourself. |  |
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| Speeding Fine question on 12:22 - Jul 27 with 7735 views | JustSpivvyChops |
| Speeding Fine question on 11:51 - Jul 27 by JustSpivvyChops |
Nip IS REQUIRED to arrive within 14 days of the day of the offence..........however, there are allowances, eg it's a company car so takes longer to get to the driver via hire company etc. In those instances the 14 day limit wouldn't apply, also if details at DVLA were out of date etc, same outcome, 14 day doesn't count.
If you are the registered keeper of the vehicle (and were for some time prior to the incident) and your address details on DVLA are up to date then the NIP MUST arrive within 14 days of the offence, because there's no plausible excuse the Police can use for the delay getting the letter to you. As the letter is clearly dated a hell of a long time after 14 days of the date of the offence, it is extremely supportive of your argument.
There is still a requirement to provide your driver details (technically this could be argued, but in real world best just to do it) but you should add to your response that you do not accept the NIP as legislation requires that the NIP arrives no later than 14 days from the date of the offence (as long as you have met the requirements I mentioned above regarding keeper and address) and also highlight that the letter is dated some time after the 14 day period.
Hopefully they'll roll over and cancel the ticket........but probably not. Next course of action depends on their response to your "time barred" claim and what detail they respond with. |
Needless to say..............when you send your response rejecting the NIP, claiming it is time barred, ensure you keep the original docs and send copies back to the Police as you may need them at a later date.
Frankly, if your details at DVLA (last known address) haven't changed recently and you are and have always been the registered keeper, I can't see what guffaw they could hope to come out with to defend the 14 day legislative requirement. | | | |
| Speeding Fine question on 12:27 - Jul 27 with 7700 views | Meadowlark |
The police WILL make up evidence, and ignore procedures because they know that you will not pursue this for as long as they will. You neither have the resources nor the time that they have. And they know that when it comes down to the truth against their word, they always win.
It is a sad state of affairs, but this is why there is so much disrespect for the police force. I am not saying that they are all bad people, but they use a system that ensures it is very difficult for innocent motorists to get off. And it seems that the more that they become aware of this, the more they are beginning to exploit this position of power.
You've got no chance, but I wish you luck! |  | | |
| Speeding Fine question on 12:46 - Jul 27 with 7642 views | hype313 |
| Speeding Fine question on 12:22 - Jul 27 by JustSpivvyChops |
Needless to say..............when you send your response rejecting the NIP, claiming it is time barred, ensure you keep the original docs and send copies back to the Police as you may need them at a later date.
Frankly, if your details at DVLA (last known address) haven't changed recently and you are and have always been the registered keeper, I can't see what guffaw they could hope to come out with to defend the 14 day legislative requirement. |
I have been the registered Keeper of the car for 3 and a half years, so can't see why they would say we couldn't find you. | |
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| Speeding Fine question on 13:01 - Jul 27 with 7609 views | JustSpivvyChops |
| Speeding Fine question on 12:46 - Jul 27 by hype313 |
I have been the registered Keeper of the car for 3 and a half years, so can't see why they would say we couldn't find you. |
Are your address details at DVLA correct? Have you moved house since you became registered keeper of the vehicle which meant your last known address details were out of date?
Bottom line, the Police have to prove that they sent the letter in a timescale that it could reasonably be expected to reach the registered keeper within 14 days of the date of the offence at the last known address of the registered keeper. The date on the letter you received is clearly well after 14 days and if your details (registered keeper status and address as held at DVLA) have been static for some time, then they don't have a reasonable argument at Court and any judge should dismiss their action immediately. In most instances, the Police should cancel the NIP themselves if it is as clear cut as this seems, but sometimes, even though they realise there is no prospect of success they will press ahead with action hoping you'll give in and accept a fine/points/awareness course. | | | |
| Speeding Fine question on 13:09 - Jul 27 with 7570 views | Ryorry |
| Speeding Fine question on 08:40 - Jul 27 by MJallday |
They have 14 days to inform You. So you could potentially argue this. I'd seek advice from a motoring lawyer though
Incidentally if you get stopped at side of road by a copper that is classed as your NIP then they have 6 months.... |
What's the situation with a speedgun? |  |
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| Speeding Fine question on 13:28 - Jul 27 with 7524 views | uefacup81 |
| Speeding Fine question on 11:55 - Jul 27 by homer_123 |
Not really - all they need to do is provide proof that an earlier letter was sent....no more than that. |
Surely, even if they claim an earlier letter was sent, you could bring the claim into doubt by querying their procedures?
I highly doubt that if they had sent you a letter back in April, which to their mind you'd ignored, they'd be so kind as to send you the same letter again three months later just to give you a second chance.
I'm sure a very pertinent question would be 'why didn't you advance the case to the next step when I, allegedly, ignored your first letter?'. | |
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