| Shows how bad things are.... 08:35 - Feb 19 with 21868 views | itfcjoe |
....when the manager quite clearly tells the fan to F*ck Off after scoring what looked like being a late winner in a local derby and no-one is particularly surprised and a lot aren't particularly bothered.
Even the fact that i can understand Mick doing it, because the chants at the substitutions were totally stupid, counter productive and just plain wrong - there is no way he should be allowed to get away with reacting like that.
We've known the relationship is utterly broken and has been for a while between McCarthy and the fanbase - it is clear totally irreparable and this situation dragging on until the end of the season is a total mismanagement from Evans. It's a disgrace really to have a manager seemingly at war with the fanbase. |  |
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| Shows how bad things are.... on 08:44 - Feb 19 with 6593 views | Mullet |
I think that's a load of rubbish to be honest Joe.
Even if he did aim it at the away end, those offended by it deserve it. We've had people turning up to games with the sole intention of abusing Mick and specific players at the first opportunity, calling him and others "C*nts" and the like on the regular.
We've had him constantly sniped at, criticised and often not for things he's actually done.
If you're upset by that, if you call yourself a "customer" to do so, if you can't see the hypocrisy then football isn't for you. In fact it's this mentality that has led to football being so diluted and half n half scarf waving, gentrified nonsense.
I still find it funny that people say he doesn't care, is arrogant and looks down on the fans. Then they're framing him celebrating wildly and swearing in a way that shows he's deeply vulnerable, and concerned by what we think and cares a great deal about smashing one past the scum.
Fact is, people are starting to realise he's going, and sh1tting it. They're going to get exactly what they want and know that probably means league 1 before the top flight. |  |
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| Shows how bad things are.... on 08:45 - Feb 19 with 6588 views | Benters2 |
He hates the fans .
End of. |  | | |
| Shows how bad things are.... on 08:50 - Feb 19 with 6563 views | Radlett_blue |
If Mick is given a contract extension - and I assume little increase in the playing budget - he's almost certainly smart enough to keep us in this league, but I doubt the football will improve & gates will almost certainly decline.
Any change would be a gamble; replacing Mick with another Championship old sweat would generate a little short term optimism but we'd probably not get more points.
Appointing a promising lower league manager or a foreigner would be a risk - we could go down, while there would be a small chance that the league position (and football) might improve.
Making a "gesture sacking" of Mick right now makes no sense. Far more likely to get a decent manager in the summer. No sane person would want TC as caretaker so do you want him sacked as well? |  |
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| Shows how bad things are.... on 08:52 - Feb 19 with 6549 views | artsbossbeard |
Sorry, Joe.
We normally see things quite similarly but I'm not with you on this. He's done here, I agree but I think this is being used as a further stick to hit him with.
I understand what he's doing - it's a celebratory F*ck off, it's a me versus the world and I've won (for 5mins) celebration. Nothing to see here.
THE worst thing (bar the damage to the concourse) about yesterday was the chant and the fact that Norwich found it funny and joined in. |  |
| Please note: prior to hitting the post button, I've double checked for anything that could be construed as "Anti Semitic" and to the best of my knowledge it isn't. Anything deemed to be of a Xenophobic nature is therefore purely accidental or down to your own misconstruing. | | Poll: | Raining in IP8 - shall I get the washing in? |
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| Shows how bad things are.... on 08:53 - Feb 19 with 6529 views | itfcjoe |
| Shows how bad things are.... on 08:44 - Feb 19 by Mullet |
I think that's a load of rubbish to be honest Joe.
Even if he did aim it at the away end, those offended by it deserve it. We've had people turning up to games with the sole intention of abusing Mick and specific players at the first opportunity, calling him and others "C*nts" and the like on the regular.
We've had him constantly sniped at, criticised and often not for things he's actually done.
If you're upset by that, if you call yourself a "customer" to do so, if you can't see the hypocrisy then football isn't for you. In fact it's this mentality that has led to football being so diluted and half n half scarf waving, gentrified nonsense.
I still find it funny that people say he doesn't care, is arrogant and looks down on the fans. Then they're framing him celebrating wildly and swearing in a way that shows he's deeply vulnerable, and concerned by what we think and cares a great deal about smashing one past the scum.
Fact is, people are starting to realise he's going, and sh1tting it. They're going to get exactly what they want and know that probably means league 1 before the top flight. |
I was in the away end, and didn't join in with the chants and most around me didn't either - but we are still getting told to F*ck Off by McCarthy. It's like the Burton game where he can't help but have a dig at the fans after the win and he includes the whole fanbase there with the way he frames it and words it.
I'm not offended personally, but the relationship is just so far beyond broken - there is a lot of fault on both sides, and I think Mick's main frustration is that he is, objectively, doing a good job under very tight constraints and is still getting loads of sh*t from the fans.
He is Evans' shield to the fans and gets far too much flak - but we are where we are now and the longer this goes on the worse it will get | |
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| Shows how bad things are.... on 08:53 - Feb 19 with 6531 views | ITFC_Forever |
I will confess, I did join in with the booing of the substitution of Iorfa for Spence, and with hindsight, I know it was wrong.
I didn't know Iorfa was injured, but the frustration was more that it was our last substitution (McG and Hyam were already on) and it seemed like we were giving up any chance of a win by leaving the one player we have with pace (Celina) on the bench.
But as Joe says, what could have been (and should have been had we not switched off for their equaliser) a memorable occasion and the stuff you dream of (last minute away winners in a derby) is now over-shadowed by Mick's reaction.
And as has been said before, ME allowing this situation to fester is doing us no good at all. I think ME wants Mick to stay (as Mick completely runs the football side of the club), but he also is aware of the rapidly growing rift between the majority of the fan-base and that can't be sustained.
And with ST renewals now a month or so away, ME needs to tell us what is happening - what is the product he is selling for 2018-19? Is it ITFC with Mick in charge or someone else? At least people will know what they are signing up to. |  |
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| Shows how bad things are.... on 08:57 - Feb 19 with 6488 views | Bluebell |
| Shows how bad things are.... on 08:53 - Feb 19 by ITFC_Forever |
I will confess, I did join in with the booing of the substitution of Iorfa for Spence, and with hindsight, I know it was wrong.
I didn't know Iorfa was injured, but the frustration was more that it was our last substitution (McG and Hyam were already on) and it seemed like we were giving up any chance of a win by leaving the one player we have with pace (Celina) on the bench.
But as Joe says, what could have been (and should have been had we not switched off for their equaliser) a memorable occasion and the stuff you dream of (last minute away winners in a derby) is now over-shadowed by Mick's reaction.
And as has been said before, ME allowing this situation to fester is doing us no good at all. I think ME wants Mick to stay (as Mick completely runs the football side of the club), but he also is aware of the rapidly growing rift between the majority of the fan-base and that can't be sustained.
And with ST renewals now a month or so away, ME needs to tell us what is happening - what is the product he is selling for 2018-19? Is it ITFC with Mick in charge or someone else? At least people will know what they are signing up to. |
"what could have been (and should have been had we not switched off for their equaliser) a memorable occasion and the stuff you dream of (last minute away winners in a derby) is now over-shadowed by Mick's reaction"
Do you really think anyone would have given a sh*t about what Mick said if the players hadn't switched off? If we had won, nobody would have cared. You can't blame Mick for that!
It is being blown up out of proportion as a way to knock Mick again. |  | | |
| Shows how bad things are.... on 08:58 - Feb 19 with 6463 views | Mullet |
| Shows how bad things are.... on 08:53 - Feb 19 by itfcjoe |
I was in the away end, and didn't join in with the chants and most around me didn't either - but we are still getting told to F*ck Off by McCarthy. It's like the Burton game where he can't help but have a dig at the fans after the win and he includes the whole fanbase there with the way he frames it and words it.
I'm not offended personally, but the relationship is just so far beyond broken - there is a lot of fault on both sides, and I think Mick's main frustration is that he is, objectively, doing a good job under very tight constraints and is still getting loads of sh*t from the fans.
He is Evans' shield to the fans and gets far too much flak - but we are where we are now and the longer this goes on the worse it will get |
Assuming the "Fvck off" was aimed and not just a bloke going mental like we all do when we score, do you think it was aimed at all the Town fans? Do you think it was not a fair reaction to being lambasted publicly, at the scum of all places? That's a far bigger crime in my eyes.
Regardless, this idea of "mick said" only shows the childish nature of all this. I'd rather have Mick than some continental mannequin wiping the pundit-jizz off his designer coat because he talks about "the press" and "inverted false number 27s" every week.
Mick should be a hero here, but because we have people who think they deserve his success we're left where we are. These people should fcuk off quite frankly, cause when we're sat in the away end at Shrewsbury or Crewe or wherever, they'll be on twitter talking about who got booted off some reality show, or what B&Q have on offer this month. | |
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| Shows how bad things are.... on 09:01 - Feb 19 with 6443 views | itfcjoe |
| Shows how bad things are.... on 08:52 - Feb 19 by artsbossbeard |
Sorry, Joe.
We normally see things quite similarly but I'm not with you on this. He's done here, I agree but I think this is being used as a further stick to hit him with.
I understand what he's doing - it's a celebratory F*ck off, it's a me versus the world and I've won (for 5mins) celebration. Nothing to see here.
THE worst thing (bar the damage to the concourse) about yesterday was the chant and the fact that Norwich found it funny and joined in. |
I think it's just the way he goes out of his way to do it, rankles with me - it's not particularly classy and he should be able to rise above the abuse he gets.
I couldn't believe the chant, Iorfa was clearly injured or knackered because there is no way you change a RWB with a RWB otherwise - it wasn't a negative sub, it was just a sub. When the players have been slogging their guts out for 80 minutes think it is grossly unfair to give them, as well as Mick, a kick in the balls like that. | |
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| Shows how bad things are.... on 09:03 - Feb 19 with 6426 views | Kieran_Knows |
I'll keep saying this, as much as Mick's time is up here, there is one bloke at the centre of all this, and that is Evans.
He could easily sort this problem out by coming to some agreement with Mick to let him go, but he just won't. So that right there is your problem. |  |
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| Shows how bad things are.... on 09:05 - Feb 19 with 6401 views | EastKentBlue |
| Shows how bad things are.... on 08:44 - Feb 19 by Mullet |
I think that's a load of rubbish to be honest Joe.
Even if he did aim it at the away end, those offended by it deserve it. We've had people turning up to games with the sole intention of abusing Mick and specific players at the first opportunity, calling him and others "C*nts" and the like on the regular.
We've had him constantly sniped at, criticised and often not for things he's actually done.
If you're upset by that, if you call yourself a "customer" to do so, if you can't see the hypocrisy then football isn't for you. In fact it's this mentality that has led to football being so diluted and half n half scarf waving, gentrified nonsense.
I still find it funny that people say he doesn't care, is arrogant and looks down on the fans. Then they're framing him celebrating wildly and swearing in a way that shows he's deeply vulnerable, and concerned by what we think and cares a great deal about smashing one past the scum.
Fact is, people are starting to realise he's going, and sh1tting it. They're going to get exactly what they want and know that probably means league 1 before the top flight. |
its ridiculous we have to even talk about this to be honest and Nodge must be laughing at us.
Feel for Mick as he got it pretty much right yesterday and individual mistakes cost us again.
What Mick has to take responsibility for is our overall style of play and no long-term sustainable plan of evolving that style. Second half was a complete back to the walls job and just chopping down Maddison. But we played back to the walls at home to Burton and in most other games.
He has to go now to give all fans something to buy into and look forward and enjoy going back to Portman Rd. | | | |
| Shows how bad things are.... on 09:05 - Feb 19 with 6396 views | Radlett_blue |
| Shows how bad things are.... on 09:01 - Feb 19 by itfcjoe |
I think it's just the way he goes out of his way to do it, rankles with me - it's not particularly classy and he should be able to rise above the abuse he gets.
I couldn't believe the chant, Iorfa was clearly injured or knackered because there is no way you change a RWB with a RWB otherwise - it wasn't a negative sub, it was just a sub. When the players have been slogging their guts out for 80 minutes think it is grossly unfair to give them, as well as Mick, a kick in the balls like that. |
I reckon Mick doesn't want to be at PR next season so he will be off in the summer. I think he made his mind up a while ago, hence the increasingly regular sniping at the fans plus the game-playing of hinting that he is going to be here for another 2 years. | |
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| Shows how bad things are.... on 09:06 - Feb 19 with 6389 views | Benters2 |
| Shows how bad things are.... on 08:57 - Feb 19 by Bluebell |
"what could have been (and should have been had we not switched off for their equaliser) a memorable occasion and the stuff you dream of (last minute away winners in a derby) is now over-shadowed by Mick's reaction"
Do you really think anyone would have given a sh*t about what Mick said if the players hadn't switched off? If we had won, nobody would have cared. You can't blame Mick for that!
It is being blown up out of proportion as a way to knock Mick again. |
I really couldnt care less what he said or didnt say to be honest,i was pleased how we played and that will do me. | | | |
| Shows how bad things are.... on 09:06 - Feb 19 with 6379 views | artsbossbeard |
| Shows how bad things are.... on 09:01 - Feb 19 by itfcjoe |
I think it's just the way he goes out of his way to do it, rankles with me - it's not particularly classy and he should be able to rise above the abuse he gets.
I couldn't believe the chant, Iorfa was clearly injured or knackered because there is no way you change a RWB with a RWB otherwise - it wasn't a negative sub, it was just a sub. When the players have been slogging their guts out for 80 minutes think it is grossly unfair to give them, as well as Mick, a kick in the balls like that. |
Fair point.
I noticed (as did PJH from his post yesterday) that Iorfa went down holding his calf area after shinning a clearance into the stand and at the next break of play, he was stretching his hamstrings. I really didn't think any more of it when Spence was getting ready to come on as it made sense to me. | |
| Please note: prior to hitting the post button, I've double checked for anything that could be construed as "Anti Semitic" and to the best of my knowledge it isn't. Anything deemed to be of a Xenophobic nature is therefore purely accidental or down to your own misconstruing. | | Poll: | Raining in IP8 - shall I get the washing in? |
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| Shows how bad things are.... on 09:07 - Feb 19 with 6387 views | ITFC_Forever |
| Shows how bad things are.... on 08:57 - Feb 19 by Bluebell |
"what could have been (and should have been had we not switched off for their equaliser) a memorable occasion and the stuff you dream of (last minute away winners in a derby) is now over-shadowed by Mick's reaction"
Do you really think anyone would have given a sh*t about what Mick said if the players hadn't switched off? If we had won, nobody would have cared. You can't blame Mick for that!
It is being blown up out of proportion as a way to knock Mick again. |
No, I think once the footage had been seen after the game, it still would have been a point to argue over, again along the lines of how little respect he has for the fans etc.
Edit; in the same way the win over Burton away was dominated post-match by Mick's comments. [Post edited 19 Feb 2018 9:07]
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| Shows how bad things are.... on 09:07 - Feb 19 with 6375 views | itfcjoe |
| Shows how bad things are.... on 08:58 - Feb 19 by Mullet |
Assuming the "Fvck off" was aimed and not just a bloke going mental like we all do when we score, do you think it was aimed at all the Town fans? Do you think it was not a fair reaction to being lambasted publicly, at the scum of all places? That's a far bigger crime in my eyes.
Regardless, this idea of "mick said" only shows the childish nature of all this. I'd rather have Mick than some continental mannequin wiping the pundit-jizz off his designer coat because he talks about "the press" and "inverted false number 27s" every week.
Mick should be a hero here, but because we have people who think they deserve his success we're left where we are. These people should fcuk off quite frankly, cause when we're sat in the away end at Shrewsbury or Crewe or wherever, they'll be on twitter talking about who got booted off some reality show, or what B&Q have on offer this month. |
But you can't aim it at some of the fans, like it's clear he did, without aiming it at the whole fan base there - in the same way the fans singing your football is sh*t is just aimed at Mick, but the reality is it must affect and hurt the players - they are trying their nuts off to be told it's sh*t. Spence stands on the sideline waiting to come on to a chorus of boos etc.
It's a race to the bottom, and one Mick shouldn't be involved in that no matter how frustrated he is | |
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| Shows how bad things are.... on 09:08 - Feb 19 with 6366 views | Trequartista |
It was clearly aimed at the Town fans. Notice how he just stops himself from doing the up yours fist salute.
I don't think anyone is actually offended by being told to f off by McCarthy, as per the snowflake accusations on here, they just see it, as you say, as a broken relationship where he has now made it clear that it is more important he got one over his own fans than actually beating Norwich, and that is an untenable situation. |  |
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| Shows how bad things are.... on 09:09 - Feb 19 with 6348 views | ITFC_Forever |
| Shows how bad things are.... on 09:01 - Feb 19 by itfcjoe |
I think it's just the way he goes out of his way to do it, rankles with me - it's not particularly classy and he should be able to rise above the abuse he gets.
I couldn't believe the chant, Iorfa was clearly injured or knackered because there is no way you change a RWB with a RWB otherwise - it wasn't a negative sub, it was just a sub. When the players have been slogging their guts out for 80 minutes think it is grossly unfair to give them, as well as Mick, a kick in the balls like that. |
I think the substitution was fair enough on its own.
But as it was the last sub we had, it was the realisation Celina wasn't getting on that riled people. | |
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| Shows how bad things are.... on 09:09 - Feb 19 with 6347 views | brazil1982 |
In the heat of a moment, the Manager yells something which may or may not have been directed at fans. He denies this. It's a non issue.
I've been quite passive about MM except when I went to Lincoln last year, but he will go. | | | |
| Shows how bad things are.... on 09:13 - Feb 19 with 6309 views | monty_radio |
| Shows how bad things are.... on 08:50 - Feb 19 by Radlett_blue |
If Mick is given a contract extension - and I assume little increase in the playing budget - he's almost certainly smart enough to keep us in this league, but I doubt the football will improve & gates will almost certainly decline.
Any change would be a gamble; replacing Mick with another Championship old sweat would generate a little short term optimism but we'd probably not get more points.
Appointing a promising lower league manager or a foreigner would be a risk - we could go down, while there would be a small chance that the league position (and football) might improve.
Making a "gesture sacking" of Mick right now makes no sense. Far more likely to get a decent manager in the summer. No sane person would want TC as caretaker so do you want him sacked as well? |
If there exists in the boardroom any semblance of a succession plan, and it's hard to believe that an adroit man such as Evans would just let this lie, then, the Summer being, in reality, just 7-8 weeks, is too short to bed in.
The mathematical play-off possibility and the odd win against a basket-case, muddies the water a bit, but whoever they have in mind to succeed would profit the club and the ST sales, offsetting any MM payout.
If there were seen to be a genuine plan, those cast into the outer darkness by the "stand by your man/club" contingent would be drawn back by the hope, and the said guardians could do no other but cheer their new man.
"Did he or didn't he?" yesterday, in Mick's case, seems to me like "did Alli dive or didn't
he?" - the form and the habit weight the judgement. The club suffers; even the Evan's brand must take a hit. What's the point? When change is inevitable, embracing it is the only way to stay in front. | |
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| Shows how bad things are.... on 09:14 - Feb 19 with 6279 views | Mullet |
| Shows how bad things are.... on 09:05 - Feb 19 by EastKentBlue |
its ridiculous we have to even talk about this to be honest and Nodge must be laughing at us.
Feel for Mick as he got it pretty much right yesterday and individual mistakes cost us again.
What Mick has to take responsibility for is our overall style of play and no long-term sustainable plan of evolving that style. Second half was a complete back to the walls job and just chopping down Maddison. But we played back to the walls at home to Burton and in most other games.
He has to go now to give all fans something to buy into and look forward and enjoy going back to Portman Rd. |
Agree with the first bit, disagree with the second part, that's not how most games go at all. We're just a very championship side in the championship.
Ref gave Maddison his own bodyguard too often yesterday and missed some big calls e.g. Gunn's free kick for dropping the ball, but Mick got it spot on by spoiling the midfield like that and left them open. But he also didn't book Klose or Lewis for doing it perhaps because it was the first half which is typical logic for these things.
It's gutting Iorfa got injured as you can see it was perfect for Celina or Carayol to come on next and run at the pricks. Had we been able to make that change we'd probably have took 3pts easily. | |
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| Shows how bad things are.... on 09:15 - Feb 19 with 6286 views | Harry_Palmer |
| Shows how bad things are.... on 08:44 - Feb 19 by Mullet |
I think that's a load of rubbish to be honest Joe.
Even if he did aim it at the away end, those offended by it deserve it. We've had people turning up to games with the sole intention of abusing Mick and specific players at the first opportunity, calling him and others "C*nts" and the like on the regular.
We've had him constantly sniped at, criticised and often not for things he's actually done.
If you're upset by that, if you call yourself a "customer" to do so, if you can't see the hypocrisy then football isn't for you. In fact it's this mentality that has led to football being so diluted and half n half scarf waving, gentrified nonsense.
I still find it funny that people say he doesn't care, is arrogant and looks down on the fans. Then they're framing him celebrating wildly and swearing in a way that shows he's deeply vulnerable, and concerned by what we think and cares a great deal about smashing one past the scum.
Fact is, people are starting to realise he's going, and sh1tting it. They're going to get exactly what they want and know that probably means league 1 before the top flight. |
Nah, I make Joe completely right on this one.
I don't like the negative chanting and yesterday in particular it was unforgiveable and embarrassing but there is no way MM should have reacted like he did. You can think it, but don't say it when the cameras are on you.
He simply has to go now for his own sake as much as anybody else's as it is clear there is no way forward for him here. I personally believe he will go before the end of the season, possibly even this week if we lose to Cardiff.
As for sh1tting it, I don't think so. We need to reclaim the identity of this club and start playing the brand of football that the club built its reputation on. If that means we risk going into League one then so be it, I would rather play the game the right way in league one than watch another season of MM's brand of football. |  | | |
| Shows how bad things are.... on 09:17 - Feb 19 with 6262 views | Trequartista |
| Shows how bad things are.... on 09:01 - Feb 19 by itfcjoe |
I think it's just the way he goes out of his way to do it, rankles with me - it's not particularly classy and he should be able to rise above the abuse he gets.
I couldn't believe the chant, Iorfa was clearly injured or knackered because there is no way you change a RWB with a RWB otherwise - it wasn't a negative sub, it was just a sub. When the players have been slogging their guts out for 80 minutes think it is grossly unfair to give them, as well as Mick, a kick in the balls like that. |
It would not have been the substitution itself, it would have been the fact it was the final change which therefore meant we'd have played 3 defensive central midfielders (does any other manager do that?) and our best outfield player didn't get on the pitch. Can you imagine Maddison not getting on the pitch at Portman Road? Maybe he is further ahead of the rest of his team-mates than Celina would be here, but still. Sure the formation worked well in the first half, but once they moved Maddison further up the pitch we were getting outplayed and he just changed like for like. [Post edited 19 Feb 2018 9:18]
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| Shows how bad things are.... on 09:19 - Feb 19 with 6223 views | Mullet |
| Shows how bad things are.... on 09:07 - Feb 19 by itfcjoe |
But you can't aim it at some of the fans, like it's clear he did, without aiming it at the whole fan base there - in the same way the fans singing your football is sh*t is just aimed at Mick, but the reality is it must affect and hurt the players - they are trying their nuts off to be told it's sh*t. Spence stands on the sideline waiting to come on to a chorus of boos etc.
It's a race to the bottom, and one Mick shouldn't be involved in that no matter how frustrated he is |
Same with Douglas at QPR and even after Chambers came out and told these bellends it really cut him up "we were booing Mick and the substitution" despite that being a load of b0llocks.
This has been 2 years in the making. Anyone crying because the nasty man told them some truth is deserving of it.
Mick shouldn't rise to it perhaps, but why not? He's got a right to reply, even now we're assuming he's a liar to suit the argument. Which is totally unfair and hypocritical. People talk about Mick thinking he's bigger than the club, then keep dragging the club down and making excuses as they shuffle out of the door.
Whilst a clear level or two below this is the same situation that SBR faced in the 70's but with 24/7 social media coverage and is only going to end a certain way. | |
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| Shows how bad things are.... on 09:20 - Feb 19 with 6228 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Shows how bad things are.... on 08:52 - Feb 19 by artsbossbeard |
Sorry, Joe.
We normally see things quite similarly but I'm not with you on this. He's done here, I agree but I think this is being used as a further stick to hit him with.
I understand what he's doing - it's a celebratory F*ck off, it's a me versus the world and I've won (for 5mins) celebration. Nothing to see here.
THE worst thing (bar the damage to the concourse) about yesterday was the chant and the fact that Norwich found it funny and joined in. |
"I understand what he's doing - it's a celebratory F*ck off, it's a me versus the world and I've won (for 5mins) celebration. Nothing to see here".
You have to consider the wider context though - this rift has been going on and progressively getting worse for the past 12 months or so and it will continue to get worse until the owner puts a stop to it. As Joe points out, it is beyond repair. Those chanting yesterday should hang their heads but you cannot have the manager doing that. Both parties (fans and manager) seem to be standing on the outside of the tent and pissing in at the moment. | | | |
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