| England post mortem.... 08:29 - Jul 13 with 2637 views | itfcjoe |
Not sure what reaction has been too much of the game as not been able to read anything.
What are peoples over-riding emotion - pride, frustration, both, or other?
I'm definitely in the both camp, that game was there for the winning and I really felt we let it slip away. Think we were badly out coached after half time off the game, but hard to criticise too much as we'd done enough to win the game in the first half but manager was let down with errant finishing.
I was surprised at how we didn't try and do anything to stop when the game was being clearly dragged away from us, we didn't mix it up at all and were lucky to get to 90 minutes in reality. The first period of extra time was better, but as soon as they scored there was absolutely no way back.
I suppose have to remember that it isn't just the players that are young and inexperienced and will learn from this, but also the management team. I'm sure that all involved will have learned many lessons and we can push on and be stronger.
It was a fantastic experience heading out there, and delighted I did it - just gutted that I'm home so soon and football isn't! |  |
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| England post mortem.... on 08:33 - Jul 13 with 2603 views | Herbivore |
Like you a bit of both. Mainly proud but we should have won the game by half time, we were all over them and missed some good chances. Second half they were the better side and we didn't respond to them starting to dominate possession and stretching us using the full width of the pitch. We never really got control of the game again, though still had Stones' header cleared off the line and Kane fluffing a header too. A learning curve for everyone and at least this England team made us actually care about them, I'm proud of how far they've come in a short time and hope that we'll be a better side for it. |  |
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| England post mortem.... on 08:33 - Jul 13 with 2598 views | Reuser_is_God |
Yeah I’m a little frustrated but the overriding emotion is pride.
Think most on here agreed with what you’ve just said on how the game was lost. |  |
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| England post mortem.... on 08:37 - Jul 13 with 2589 views | Cuffy81 |
Pride and disappointment at huge opportunity missed
Second half we got so so deep, it was like watching Town second half of last season, we seemed content to let their full backs put the ball into our box and it only took one good cross for then to equalize.
Our ball retention second half was poor, Modric and Rakatic played much further forward and the ball kept coming back.
No conspiracy but the ref seemed to give us absolutely nothing after half time. |  | | |
| England post mortem.... on 08:38 - Jul 13 with 2586 views | Guthrum |
We seemed to play a fair bit of nice football. Southgate has certainly forged the group into an effective team in the time available to him.
Good speed of play, too. We could carve Croatia open often enough, just not fashion good enough chances or take the ones which did come.
Opposition also far too canny to give away penalties or much in the way of dangerous free kicks (and were punished the first time they did). The equaliser visibly gave Croatia a boost which overrode any tiredness. |  |
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| England post mortem.... on 08:41 - Jul 13 with 2564 views | IpswichKnight |
We got found out by a better team in the end. Teams struggle to contain us when we go for them in the first half and we have made the set piece a proper threat even corners are now a proper threat.
We struggled after half time as we couldn't respond to Croatia flooding the midfield and pinning down our wing backs, they in return were not quick enough out to the wingers and allowed them to ping crosses in ( good piece in the Telegraph by JJ Bull on the tatics Croatia used ). with the midfield flooded we couldn't pass our way out and had to result back to pumping a ball over the top.
We also suffered from not having enough quality on the bench and we badly miss a creative playmaker in midfield.
We have players coming through who have won european and world tournaments who will improve this England side going forward and we should be hopeful that this wasn't a one off but a start of a much brighter future. Let's not forget we got further in the tournament than Brazil, Germany, Spain, Portugal, Argentina and Uruguay. | | | |
| England post mortem.... on 08:41 - Jul 13 with 2565 views | Steve_M |
Yes, pride over all but I'm frustrated with the semi final. We failed to take enough from our dominant first half and then didn't or couldn't adapt in the second. It might have been different without the equaliser but after that there was only one team that really looked likely to win it. |  |
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| England post mortem.... on 08:44 - Jul 13 with 2550 views | StokieBlue |
Not sure it should be a post mortem, that's for death and that's the opposite of what happened.
They did great, an opportunity lost of course but the hope of future opportunities is now alive and that's something we haven't had in a long time.
SB |  |
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| England post mortem.... on 08:50 - Jul 13 with 2525 views | homer_123 |
Pride but we have missed our best chance of reaching a WC final.
Frankly, game should have been wrapped up in the first half.
However, if the players learn from that experience and we fans and the press learn from our overall approach to the WC then it will have been an immense success.
The cold hard reality is that not even the most optimistic of us fans would have said we'd make the semi-final. |  |
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| England post mortem.... on 08:52 - Jul 13 with 2514 views | RobTheMonk |
We'd of taken a semi final defeat in extra time before (obviously not at the time). I think what this world cup has highlighted is that we lack those midfield maestros like Modric, Rakitic, Xavi, Iniesta, Pirlo and Alonso. We've either got industrious defensive mids like Henderson and Dier or attacking mids like Lingard and Alli. Carrick was criminally under utilised when he was about. |  | | |
| England post mortem.... on 08:58 - Jul 13 with 2497 views | carlisleaway |
Great post, but talking about lack of squad depth we have to look at the greedy Premiership clubs who keep on bringing young unknown and foreign players into the country. They are frightened to use young English/Scottish or Welsh players who flounder about in the under 23s, only Spurs have pushed young English players through.
Also can we ban Footballs coming home...... |  | | |
| England post mortem.... on 09:01 - Jul 13 with 2496 views | unstableblue |
Hi Joe,
I thought it was a positive tournament overall for England, but still with some deeper concerns looking forward.
So the pluses:
- the preparation and planning for the tournament and the way they seemed to keep the players occupied and positive was excellent
- Southgate is a real model Englishman he's the opposite of the worst things about English international football support, and he is good image for England abroad
- some of our passing from goalkeeper to backs to midfield at times was excellent
- the interplay between Alli, Lingaard and Sterling at times was very exciting, albeit limited
- the goalie, trippier, maguire really emerged as players and have a bright future (albeit I love the Liverpool right back).. I also think Lingaard and to an increasing extent Stones shone at times. I think Alli started to show his potential to step up to be a real international star....
- the win over Colombia was a real achievement in a horrible game, against a better opposition
- they are all young including the manager and can only get better from the experience
Negatives
- Tunisia and Panama were weak opposition, and I do think against Sweden we could have found an upper gear and really shone the world our new style
- we seemed leggy, especially Kane, and so again never showed our new passing through the lines style linked to Premiership energy
- Kane was subduded
- teams like Croatia still seem a level up in terms of basic technique - trapping, close control
- we need more real quality players coming through... especially a true Modric playmaker. We also need the likes of Loftus Cheek and Rashford to start getting much more game time within the top English sides
- we need more English players playing in Europe
- I think Southgate was a little tactically naive... the Croats shape nullified our midfield threat...
- Sterling was much better than some suggest but he does not hurt the opposition enough
I welcome any questions |  |
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| England post mortem.... on 09:03 - Jul 13 with 2479 views | Reuser_is_God |
| England post mortem.... on 09:01 - Jul 13 by unstableblue |
Hi Joe,
I thought it was a positive tournament overall for England, but still with some deeper concerns looking forward.
So the pluses:
- the preparation and planning for the tournament and the way they seemed to keep the players occupied and positive was excellent
- Southgate is a real model Englishman he's the opposite of the worst things about English international football support, and he is good image for England abroad
- some of our passing from goalkeeper to backs to midfield at times was excellent
- the interplay between Alli, Lingaard and Sterling at times was very exciting, albeit limited
- the goalie, trippier, maguire really emerged as players and have a bright future (albeit I love the Liverpool right back).. I also think Lingaard and to an increasing extent Stones shone at times. I think Alli started to show his potential to step up to be a real international star....
- the win over Colombia was a real achievement in a horrible game, against a better opposition
- they are all young including the manager and can only get better from the experience
Negatives
- Tunisia and Panama were weak opposition, and I do think against Sweden we could have found an upper gear and really shone the world our new style
- we seemed leggy, especially Kane, and so again never showed our new passing through the lines style linked to Premiership energy
- Kane was subduded
- teams like Croatia still seem a level up in terms of basic technique - trapping, close control
- we need more real quality players coming through... especially a true Modric playmaker. We also need the likes of Loftus Cheek and Rashford to start getting much more game time within the top English sides
- we need more English players playing in Europe
- I think Southgate was a little tactically naive... the Croats shape nullified our midfield threat...
- Sterling was much better than some suggest but he does not hurt the opposition enough
I welcome any questions |
Think that’s pretty much bang on.
Really echo your thoughts on more English players playing top level prem/abroad. Hopefully this world cup run can be a catalyst for that. | |
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| England post mortem.... on 09:08 - Jul 13 with 2463 views | Guthrum |
| England post mortem.... on 08:50 - Jul 13 by homer_123 |
Pride but we have missed our best chance of reaching a WC final.
Frankly, game should have been wrapped up in the first half.
However, if the players learn from that experience and we fans and the press learn from our overall approach to the WC then it will have been an immense success.
The cold hard reality is that not even the most optimistic of us fans would have said we'd make the semi-final. |
I think it was our best chance of reaching the Final for the last couple of decades. But going forwards, it depends on whether we can build on the positives of this tournament, iron out some of the issues and continue to bring through good young players. If so, then in four years time we could have an equally good (if not better) run at winning. | |
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| England post mortem.... on 09:11 - Jul 13 with 2451 views | homer_123 |
| England post mortem.... on 09:08 - Jul 13 by Guthrum |
I think it was our best chance of reaching the Final for the last couple of decades. But going forwards, it depends on whether we can build on the positives of this tournament, iron out some of the issues and continue to bring through good young players. If so, then in four years time we could have an equally good (if not better) run at winning. |
Yep, as I say - if we can learn from this (and not just the players) then it will serve us superbly well.
I would argue that Croatia were nowhere near the team Germany were back in the day - but maybe we were not the team England were back then either and therefore it is on par? | |
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| England post mortem.... on 09:26 - Jul 13 with 2412 views | christiand |
I like these types of post ITFCjoe, it's ballsy and questions what the majority will be wanting you to believe, even though you may feel differently. Honestly, I'm disappointed. I certainly would have taken a semi final place before the competition, but that was a real opportunity that we have let slip through our fingers to make a World Cup Final especially how the draw had unfolded, you have to take those chances when they arise. Just thought we went out with a whimper rather than have a real go at the Croats. Whose to say we will get ourselves in that position again? Credit must be given to Croatia as they ended deserved winners. They pressed more, made subtle changes to their formation and personnel to counter our first half dominance. However, Southgate didn't react and just allowed things to develop which was really frustrating and a few of our players were found wanting.
I'm pleased that the national side has given us all that feel good factor back, but I'm still sceptical. For all the good that has been achieved there is still plenty to work on, England is still very much work in progress rather than the finished article. The home and away ties against Spain and Croatia in the UEFA's National League will make for interesting viewing and will be a true indicator of where this current English squad is at. Although we got to the semi final stage, in my eyes we simply aren't one of the 4 best teams in world football yet! [Post edited 13 Jul 2018 9:35]
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| England post mortem.... on 09:34 - Jul 13 with 2380 views | unstableblue |
| England post mortem.... on 09:03 - Jul 13 by Reuser_is_God |
Think that’s pretty much bang on.
Really echo your thoughts on more English players playing top level prem/abroad. Hopefully this world cup run can be a catalyst for that. |
I heard an interested article on Uruguay- their domestic league is weak to non-existent so the Uruguayans Strategy is develop youth to then be picked up by European and better South American teams. And these players play at a high level and have experience of big game playing.
The Croats roster of league clubs played at is just ridiculous multiple Barcelona and Real Madrid players all the big Italian clubs, and then the likes Atletico Madrid and Monaco. So Champions League pedigree. Now our Spurs and Liverpool players are also playing and doing well at that level. But it emphasises that losing to the Croats is nothing to be ashamed about.
Is Qatar a winter tournament? That might suit us to play mid Premier League. We did lack energy at times. | |
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| England post mortem.... on 09:47 - Jul 13 with 2358 views | Currie10 |
| England post mortem.... on 09:34 - Jul 13 by unstableblue |
I heard an interested article on Uruguay- their domestic league is weak to non-existent so the Uruguayans Strategy is develop youth to then be picked up by European and better South American teams. And these players play at a high level and have experience of big game playing.
The Croats roster of league clubs played at is just ridiculous multiple Barcelona and Real Madrid players all the big Italian clubs, and then the likes Atletico Madrid and Monaco. So Champions League pedigree. Now our Spurs and Liverpool players are also playing and doing well at that level. But it emphasises that losing to the Croats is nothing to be ashamed about.
Is Qatar a winter tournament? That might suit us to play mid Premier League. We did lack energy at times. |
That may suit us - however.....
Argentina / Germany / Spain / Italy and others to consider.
Their top youth players generally get to play first team football somewhere or other.
Ours..... I mean we've won every youth cup going but how many of these winners are likely to break through?!
This will probably also go down like a led balloon but far too many young English talents get waayyyyy too much ££££ at such a young age - I'm not sure at times how motivated many are to fulfill their massive potential. I don't blame them or the clubs either! If the clubs don't pay they force a move, and who is going to say ' please sir pay me less? '. I get it. Just not sure quite as to how it helps - along with social media and all the other pitfalls that are far more prevalent in the 21st century. ( In my opinion the world is broken but there's one for another day )
Aged 16-20 and probably a young millionaire with zero prospect of getting into the first 11 of their club .... it's hardly surprising.
We have to find a way of getting these players into teams line ups. Spurs are being brave about it - and I get with all the ££££ / instant demands from fans / pressures from managers it's very hard for this to happen.
We won't get a better chance to make a final than that for many a year.
You take Brazil / Argentina for example. The young promising lads get first team football at a very young age for the likes of River / Boca / Santos / Sao Paulo etc. The clubs know these talents will be Europe bound at some point - however by the age of 21 or so they've often played 70 - 120 first team games.
We have numerous talents who've won everything young, who are very skeptical about going out on loan who amount to absolutely nothing.
Alex Henshall an example from us we all know about. Super talented at Swindon, goes to Many City - where is he now!?
I'm quite concerned for our future due to this. [Post edited 13 Jul 2018 9:49]
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| England post mortem.... on 09:51 - Jul 13 with 2351 views | Steve_M |
| England post mortem.... on 09:34 - Jul 13 by unstableblue |
I heard an interested article on Uruguay- their domestic league is weak to non-existent so the Uruguayans Strategy is develop youth to then be picked up by European and better South American teams. And these players play at a high level and have experience of big game playing.
The Croats roster of league clubs played at is just ridiculous multiple Barcelona and Real Madrid players all the big Italian clubs, and then the likes Atletico Madrid and Monaco. So Champions League pedigree. Now our Spurs and Liverpool players are also playing and doing well at that level. But it emphasises that losing to the Croats is nothing to be ashamed about.
Is Qatar a winter tournament? That might suit us to play mid Premier League. We did lack energy at times. |
I wonder if players like Loftus-Cheek will come back from that tournament and think I really need to be playing regular football somewhere and make that their priority. I hope so, because there has to be more to footballing life than just sitting in a large squad atrophying. | |
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| England post mortem.... on 09:59 - Jul 13 with 2332 views | hype313 |
Gutted but not too despondent, I don't think we overachieved due to the opposition we played as the results proved exactly where we are, however we did far better than most of us hoped we would.
We clearly need some creativity in the middle, as well as Henderson played it proved that you need someone like Modric to unlock defences, maybe Lewis Cook is the guy or some other youngster yet to come through.
But moving forward we have a solid defence to build on and Kane is only 24, Sterling causes huge problems but I do feel he needs to improve his decision making in the coming years, so all in all a positive tournament, a lift for the nation and some excellent things to build on.
Just to add, Trippier looks like a player who could go onto to be world class defender. |  |
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| England post mortem.... on 10:06 - Jul 13 with 2317 views | Guthrum |
| England post mortem.... on 09:26 - Jul 13 by christiand |
I like these types of post ITFCjoe, it's ballsy and questions what the majority will be wanting you to believe, even though you may feel differently. Honestly, I'm disappointed. I certainly would have taken a semi final place before the competition, but that was a real opportunity that we have let slip through our fingers to make a World Cup Final especially how the draw had unfolded, you have to take those chances when they arise. Just thought we went out with a whimper rather than have a real go at the Croats. Whose to say we will get ourselves in that position again? Credit must be given to Croatia as they ended deserved winners. They pressed more, made subtle changes to their formation and personnel to counter our first half dominance. However, Southgate didn't react and just allowed things to develop which was really frustrating and a few of our players were found wanting.
I'm pleased that the national side has given us all that feel good factor back, but I'm still sceptical. For all the good that has been achieved there is still plenty to work on, England is still very much work in progress rather than the finished article. The home and away ties against Spain and Croatia in the UEFA's National League will make for interesting viewing and will be a true indicator of where this current English squad is at. Although we got to the semi final stage, in my eyes we simply aren't one of the 4 best teams in world football yet! [Post edited 13 Jul 2018 9:35]
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In some ways, taking a longer view, it's not entirely a bad thing that we fell a bit short. The management and team are still developing, growing. Reaching the pinnacle too early could give a weight of expectation which destroys future progress. | |
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| England post mortem.... on 10:09 - Jul 13 with 2310 views | TractorJack |
| England post mortem.... on 09:59 - Jul 13 by hype313 |
Gutted but not too despondent, I don't think we overachieved due to the opposition we played as the results proved exactly where we are, however we did far better than most of us hoped we would.
We clearly need some creativity in the middle, as well as Henderson played it proved that you need someone like Modric to unlock defences, maybe Lewis Cook is the guy or some other youngster yet to come through.
But moving forward we have a solid defence to build on and Kane is only 24, Sterling causes huge problems but I do feel he needs to improve his decision making in the coming years, so all in all a positive tournament, a lift for the nation and some excellent things to build on.
Just to add, Trippier looks like a player who could go onto to be world class defender. |
On the subject of Henderson, just seen a compilation of his misplaced passes against Croatia and it is painful viewing. Granted he's had some good performances this tournament but people were fair to doubt him. |  | | |
| England post mortem.... on 10:12 - Jul 13 with 2301 views | TractorWood |
Chuffed all in all. Always frustrating to get close but we beat everyones expectations. Great to see us win a shootout and to not get sidetracked by a bad decision or strange turn of events. |  |
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| England post mortem.... on 10:13 - Jul 13 with 2295 views | hype313 |
| England post mortem.... on 10:09 - Jul 13 by TractorJack |
On the subject of Henderson, just seen a compilation of his misplaced passes against Croatia and it is painful viewing. Granted he's had some good performances this tournament but people were fair to doubt him. |
He's in their because currently he's all we have, but if we have ambitions to go deep into tournaments then we will need someone superior imo. | |
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| England post mortem.... on 10:17 - Jul 13 with 2281 views | brazil1982 |
A missed opportunity, but something we MUST build on.
I think it highlights our lack of depth and real midfield talent. Don't know if that's the result of over-spending Chairmen and younger English players not getting big-game time.
However, much better than I thought we'd do and enjoyed the ride. | | | |
| England post mortem.... on 11:14 - Jul 13 with 2188 views | ElderGrizzly |
I thought the game was calling out for Loftus-Cheek to replace Alli or Lingard in the latter part of the 2nd half. One player we have who can put his foot on the ball and drive us forward.
We certainly failed to deal with Modric second half, but as you say frustration we weren’t 3-0 up at half-time. |  | | |
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