| One thing I didn't like about Hurst's interview last night 10:35 - Aug 15 with 3791 views | Mullet |
(and it's a recurring theme) is how we now have fans all over social media speculating on players who are "letting us down" and other less family friendly phrases.
Much like when he suggested we'd be selling players who didn't fulfil certain criteria in terms of mentality, you then had the sense the next players to leave would be cast as bad apples and to some extent that did happen with the strikers. But mostly sensible understanding about budgets and home life prevailed.
We saw it again a little with the Adeyemi situation, where the player is now assuming full blame for some fans.
When you listen to his interview after the game he is raw, seething and I like to see he is hurting from it. But he suggests things which means either his initial judgement of players was wrong, or he doesn't command their respect, which frustratingly undoes a lot of his rhetoric from when he arrive. Again you have lists suggesting Chambers, Knudsen, Sears, Ward et al. are the problem (conversely a bland statement about positions from Ward was taken as a celebratory dig at Mick).
Hurst also talks about "them" and "I" a lot after the result and makes a distinction between them as players and he as manager, rather than "we". I'm wondering if he does that daily, because if he doesn't, that is poor form. I fear he is too green in front of the cameras, he tells us too much at times, but then leaves out details which leaves fans turning on each other/players.
It's a big change in tone, but also makes me fear Hurst is struggling far more than he anticipated with the finer details/social side of management. That may be an experience thing, it might be that generally he has had players who were more at risk of losing their professional status in the game, younger and still looking to achieve more. That isn't the landscape here. He is already making a massive jump and ultimately asking players to make an even bigger one to the Premiership.
There were comments about attitudes and mentality which were great, however it also suggested that in-game players either a) weren't listening b) couldn't do what he asked c) he was spotting things too late/missing them. Again it'd be easy to project any of those onto specific moments in the last three games and convince yourself that's the truth. But it does feel to me, he leaves things out in the air hanging far too much.
Like Roy, a lot of that aspect of what he said last night should be done in the office on a Monday morning or in the changing rooms. If the results don't change I think the reception to comments like this will come to hurt Hurst unfortunately.
It's already becoming time for him to "get his head down" and produce in the next couple of months, now he's dug a few out and said his piece. The positivity around the club seems to have escaped far too quickly, and we need to get it back. |  |
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| One thing I didn't like about Hurst's interview last night on 10:45 - Aug 15 with 3253 views | Guthrum |
How much of that is a function of having a much larger and perhaps more active - particularly online - fan community, who are analysing and picking to pieces everything the Manager says, every performance on the pitch?
Especially as there is still the hangover from a really bad atmosphere in the final weeks of McCarthy's tenure.
Problem is, I don't think Hurst could have got away with just a series of bland statements after last night's defeat. Things needed to be said. But if he had mentioned specific names, the scapegoating would have become far worse than the speculation. Especially if it did turn out to be someone already not universally liked. |  |
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| One thing I didn't like about Hurst's interview last night on 10:50 - Aug 15 with 3199 views | Mullet |
| One thing I didn't like about Hurst's interview last night on 10:45 - Aug 15 by Guthrum |
How much of that is a function of having a much larger and perhaps more active - particularly online - fan community, who are analysing and picking to pieces everything the Manager says, every performance on the pitch?
Especially as there is still the hangover from a really bad atmosphere in the final weeks of McCarthy's tenure.
Problem is, I don't think Hurst could have got away with just a series of bland statements after last night's defeat. Things needed to be said. But if he had mentioned specific names, the scapegoating would have become far worse than the speculation. Especially if it did turn out to be someone already not universally liked. |
It's not after last night though, it's happened since pre-season in 2 or 3 different ways at least. Particularly around those being sold/out of the team.
Hurst is starting to open himself up a little here if he's not careful. Press interactions should be bland and meaningless by and large, because of the social media culture change unfortunately. | |
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| One thing I didn't like about Hurst's interview last night on 10:51 - Aug 15 with 3196 views | SomethingBlue |
| One thing I didn't like about Hurst's interview last night on 10:45 - Aug 15 by Guthrum |
How much of that is a function of having a much larger and perhaps more active - particularly online - fan community, who are analysing and picking to pieces everything the Manager says, every performance on the pitch?
Especially as there is still the hangover from a really bad atmosphere in the final weeks of McCarthy's tenure.
Problem is, I don't think Hurst could have got away with just a series of bland statements after last night's defeat. Things needed to be said. But if he had mentioned specific names, the scapegoating would have become far worse than the speculation. Especially if it did turn out to be someone already not universally liked. |
One thing I would say is that, if I'd watched that interview and not known the score, I'd have thought we'd lost 3-0 rather than drawing 1-1. He went in particularly hard and I wonder how calculated it was — frustrations with certain players have presumably been simmering. I think it was a risk, either way, but you are right about the fanbase, and the incessant noise these days, and that does make things very difficult. |  |
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| One thing I didn't like about Hurst's interview last night on 11:19 - Aug 15 with 3052 views | Blackboots |
Spot on.
I felt that he went too hard, too soon in his interview last night. It should have been done behind closed doors. However, he’s said it and we all now know how he views things. Hopefully his rant will have the desired effect but if it doesn’t and we are poor in the next few games I don’t want to hear him coming out with the same sort of comments again.
As the manager so it should always be “we” when talking about the squad, win, lose or draw. | |
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| One thing I didn't like about Hurst's interview last night on 11:32 - Aug 15 with 3005 views | CBMTOBWMMBG |
| One thing I didn't like about Hurst's interview last night on 11:19 - Aug 15 by Blackboots |
Spot on.
I felt that he went too hard, too soon in his interview last night. It should have been done behind closed doors. However, he’s said it and we all now know how he views things. Hopefully his rant will have the desired effect but if it doesn’t and we are poor in the next few games I don’t want to hear him coming out with the same sort of comments again.
As the manager so it should always be “we” when talking about the squad, win, lose or draw. |
Lots of thoughtful comments here.
Being able to take a step back from the emotion of what you are feeling and realise what you say can be interpreted many ways is vital.
It’s very tough. He may feel he’s being honest, players may perceive it as disloyal or unfair. Players must feel supported. | | | |
| One thing I didn't like about Hurst's interview last night on 11:43 - Aug 15 with 2912 views | christiand |
Problem he’s got Mullet is 6 of those starting last night were his own signings. Yes, he might have been referring to some of the more experienced players at the club, but he doesn’t mention them by name so it’s just speculation whom these comments are aimed at. PH seems a man who wears his heart on his sleeve, but too much perhaps? Reality might be hitting him that too much change has taken place too soon and only minor surgery was required!! [Post edited 15 Aug 2018 12:06]
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| One thing I didn't like about Hurst's interview last night on 11:44 - Aug 15 with 2904 views | Mullet |
| One thing I didn't like about Hurst's interview last night on 11:19 - Aug 15 by Blackboots |
Spot on.
I felt that he went too hard, too soon in his interview last night. It should have been done behind closed doors. However, he’s said it and we all now know how he views things. Hopefully his rant will have the desired effect but if it doesn’t and we are poor in the next few games I don’t want to hear him coming out with the same sort of comments again.
As the manager so it should always be “we” when talking about the squad, win, lose or draw. |
There are moments like those that make me worry Hurst is feeling the strain of stepping up, it's not like he can say he's managed or played at a higher level to the senior players either.
Of course that did no good for Roy or Jewell, but if he's building a relationship where he is distant and distinct it wouldn't matter anyway. I just hope he also practices what he preaches, it's far too early to judge him on that. But it won't be for long.
For all of the issues with Mick, no one could ever doubt out of all Evans' managers he walked the walk. | |
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| One thing I didn't like about Hurst's interview last night on 11:54 - Aug 15 with 2850 views | evansblue |
We lost to Exeter, a league 2 side.
The players should be gutted and embarrassed and he clearly thinks some don’t care enough and didn’t give 100%. I want honesty from Hurst and I want a reaction V Villa.
It’s been too easy for too long at our great club and tough love is needed in my opinion and it’s a welcome change to hear it. |  | | |
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| One thing I didn't like about Hurst's interview last night on 11:58 - Aug 15 with 2809 views | Mullet |
| One thing I didn't like about Hurst's interview last night on 11:54 - Aug 15 by evansblue |
We lost to Exeter, a league 2 side.
The players should be gutted and embarrassed and he clearly thinks some don’t care enough and didn’t give 100%. I want honesty from Hurst and I want a reaction V Villa.
It’s been too easy for too long at our great club and tough love is needed in my opinion and it’s a welcome change to hear it. |
Easy? We've had nearly two years of players being booed and dug out, "your football is sh1t" sung every time we concede etc. The players came out and said publicly how crap Douglas felt because of the treatment he got, then we got to the crescendo of dickheadery that was aimed at Mick at the death.
Given how players we were seen as "failures" and often gotten rid of too if they didn't put all in, I don't see that at all.
I'd say it's been far from easy. I'd say how Mick instilled that was the key difference if we're talking about recent history. | |
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| One thing I didn't like about Hurst's interview last night on 12:00 - Aug 15 with 2787 views | Mullet |
| One thing I didn't like about Hurst's interview last night on 11:43 - Aug 15 by christiand |
Problem he’s got Mullet is 6 of those starting last night were his own signings. Yes, he might have been referring to some of the more experienced players at the club, but he doesn’t mention them by name so it’s just speculation whom these comments are aimed at. PH seems a man who wears his heart on his sleeve, but too much perhaps? Reality might be hitting him that too much change has taken place too soon and only minor surgery was required!! [Post edited 15 Aug 2018 12:06]
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Well yes, given there has been a general consensus of this season being not about the playoffs or promotion then he has taken a lot on unnecessarily. I hope it's not all too much for him and he can get a couple of wins in. Otherwise how does he row back? | |
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| One thing I didn't like about Hurst's interview last night on 12:05 - Aug 15 with 2747 views | Darth_Koont |
Indeed.
Unfortunately, what Hurst said lacks enough detail and context to be applied to any player over another. But I'm sure the players themselves would have got that context and detail at half-time, full-time and on the journey home.
I'm not sure Hurst realises how much these types of comments will be applied to the context of 16 years in the Championship (and our previous manager and team in particular). Rather than them being about him getting a new group of players quickly into the shape he wants, physically and mentally. But that shouldn't be his problem either. |  |
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| One thing I didn't like about Hurst's interview last night on 12:07 - Aug 15 with 2710 views | groovyASH |
The managers relationship with the media and in another aspect the players relationships with social media at secondary to what should go on in training and match days. If the players spend too much time on social media and it's affecting them, then they should reevaluate their priorities and come off social media. If I was a player and had read what Hurst actually said yesterday (and not the secondary hyper interpretations of our "fans" on Twitter) I would use it to self reflect and improve my efforts.
It is still early days and Hurst is clearly changing the culture of the club, inevitably there will still be some from Mick's era who won't last under Hurst and yet won't be out of the club yet due to contracts/ lack of interest etc. Those that do remain in such a situation are used to playing a particular way which is clearly very different to how Hurst wants them, if they can change- IF- then I wouldn't write them off yet and would use Hursts comments as motivation. |  |
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| One thing I didn't like about Hurst's interview last night on 12:12 - Aug 15 with 2657 views | Superfrans |
I know what you mean. He does come across as far more inexperienced than some of the managers we've been used to. But then again this may be his strategy.
He may feel that the best way of getting us really steamed up going into the Villa game is to dig the players out. There is a clip from the new Man City doc series (on Netflix, I think) where Guardiola is in the dressing room, ranting at the players about how they seem to only perform when they appear to hate him. He asks them to hate him all the time, if that's what works for them (or something like that).
Hurst appears a fairly savvy guy. Motivation is a big part of his strength as a manager. I do wonder if that's really all we saw after last night's match. After all, he said he wouldn't bring them in for extra training today, instead they are being left to stew until tomorrow morning, worry about their positions in the team, what is to come when they return to Playford road. If he thinks the players may have been too comfortable, that may be exactly what they need.
In terms of the general fear of what the rest of the season has to hold, we shuold be wary of going over the top. I know we've only played two newly promoted teams and one from league 2, but it's not as if we've lost three games and looked terrible. We've lost narrowly to a late goal and drawn two (in normal play). We will have bigger challenges to come, but we will also have games against other teams who are low on confidence, disfunctional, poor teams. Points will come, I'm sure of it. |  |
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| One thing I didn't like about Hurst's interview last night on 12:16 - Aug 15 with 2611 views | Keaneish |
Why is "I" and "We" a bad thing? I like the approach. The "We" approach was a Mick McCarthy thing. Distinction between manager and player isn't a negative, it creates a position of authority, which Paul Hurst clearly feels is lacking given some criticisms of players.
Too much emphasis is placed on how players feel. Its about football, winning and being tough enough mentally to win. The more we get back to this the better but you're right, there is a balance which neither Keane, Jewell or MM could quite find consistently. Time will tell. Have to say, i'm enjoying this so far despite the results. Loads of optimism here still. |  |
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| One thing I didn't like about Hurst's interview last night on 12:18 - Aug 15 with 2586 views | Darth_Koont |
| One thing I didn't like about Hurst's interview last night on 11:58 - Aug 15 by Mullet |
Easy? We've had nearly two years of players being booed and dug out, "your football is sh1t" sung every time we concede etc. The players came out and said publicly how crap Douglas felt because of the treatment he got, then we got to the crescendo of dickheadery that was aimed at Mick at the death.
Given how players we were seen as "failures" and often gotten rid of too if they didn't put all in, I don't see that at all.
I'd say it's been far from easy. I'd say how Mick instilled that was the key difference if we're talking about recent history. |
Yes, the idea that the players have "had it easy for too long" is just bizarre nonsense. | |
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| One thing I didn't like about Hurst's interview last night on 12:19 - Aug 15 with 2564 views | Vic |
| One thing I didn't like about Hurst's interview last night on 10:50 - Aug 15 by Mullet |
It's not after last night though, it's happened since pre-season in 2 or 3 different ways at least. Particularly around those being sold/out of the team.
Hurst is starting to open himself up a little here if he's not careful. Press interactions should be bland and meaningless by and large, because of the social media culture change unfortunately. |
Doesn’t he have a degree in media and public relations or something! If it’s anything like that I’d suggest he knows exactly what he’s doing. Whether it’s right or not is another matter. Doesn’t sound like he’s doing anything more than he’s done in his previous ugh. It does however, as you point out, crank up the pressure to get results sooner rather than later.
Personally I think most of the comments on social media, her included, are from people who don’t really understand people, have no experience in management and have learnt about football from playing computer games. We really shouldn’t be surprised that most of it is ignorant and reactionary! |  |
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| One thing I didn't like about Hurst's interview last night on 13:07 - Aug 15 with 2346 views | Mullet |
| One thing I didn't like about Hurst's interview last night on 12:05 - Aug 15 by Darth_Koont |
Indeed.
Unfortunately, what Hurst said lacks enough detail and context to be applied to any player over another. But I'm sure the players themselves would have got that context and detail at half-time, full-time and on the journey home.
I'm not sure Hurst realises how much these types of comments will be applied to the context of 16 years in the Championship (and our previous manager and team in particular). Rather than them being about him getting a new group of players quickly into the shape he wants, physically and mentally. But that shouldn't be his problem either. |
Well also, with due respect the size of the fanbase and scrutiny of the league relative to his last club who were small by League 1 standards.
It shouldn't be an issue, but unfortunately it is because as we see with those he chose to remain, they quickly were painted negatively because of perceptions about them and the manager rather than onfield stuff exclusively. | |
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| One thing I didn't like about Hurst's interview last night on 13:10 - Aug 15 with 2318 views | Mullet |
| One thing I didn't like about Hurst's interview last night on 12:07 - Aug 15 by groovyASH |
The managers relationship with the media and in another aspect the players relationships with social media at secondary to what should go on in training and match days. If the players spend too much time on social media and it's affecting them, then they should reevaluate their priorities and come off social media. If I was a player and had read what Hurst actually said yesterday (and not the secondary hyper interpretations of our "fans" on Twitter) I would use it to self reflect and improve my efforts.
It is still early days and Hurst is clearly changing the culture of the club, inevitably there will still be some from Mick's era who won't last under Hurst and yet won't be out of the club yet due to contracts/ lack of interest etc. Those that do remain in such a situation are used to playing a particular way which is clearly very different to how Hurst wants them, if they can change- IF- then I wouldn't write them off yet and would use Hursts comments as motivation. |
The question becomes does Hurst really want them to change, rather than whether he needs them to. Mick didn't, and he soon got rid of the unfit and disinterested that Jewell left him, but you sense he did more to mould them in the mean time. It will be interesting to see if Hurst does the same.
In fairness, the problem is we don't know if he does then sit down and chat man to man with players and sort stuff out that way. I'd hope and assume he does. Quickly. | |
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| One thing I didn't like about Hurst's interview last night on 13:12 - Aug 15 with 2298 views | braveblue |
Well I thought it was a refreshing interview. Too many are pouncing on the odd word. And all the Mick lovers are saying how well Mick behaved - presume they forget he told the fans to F off at Norwich!!
Give PH a chance. Evans has put him in a difficult position with his £5m profit in the past couple of months. We must be patient. | | | |
| One thing I didn't like about Hurst's interview last night on 13:14 - Aug 15 with 2284 views | Mullet |
| One thing I didn't like about Hurst's interview last night on 12:12 - Aug 15 by Superfrans |
I know what you mean. He does come across as far more inexperienced than some of the managers we've been used to. But then again this may be his strategy.
He may feel that the best way of getting us really steamed up going into the Villa game is to dig the players out. There is a clip from the new Man City doc series (on Netflix, I think) where Guardiola is in the dressing room, ranting at the players about how they seem to only perform when they appear to hate him. He asks them to hate him all the time, if that's what works for them (or something like that).
Hurst appears a fairly savvy guy. Motivation is a big part of his strength as a manager. I do wonder if that's really all we saw after last night's match. After all, he said he wouldn't bring them in for extra training today, instead they are being left to stew until tomorrow morning, worry about their positions in the team, what is to come when they return to Playford road. If he thinks the players may have been too comfortable, that may be exactly what they need.
In terms of the general fear of what the rest of the season has to hold, we shuold be wary of going over the top. I know we've only played two newly promoted teams and one from league 2, but it's not as if we've lost three games and looked terrible. We've lost narrowly to a late goal and drawn two (in normal play). We will have bigger challenges to come, but we will also have games against other teams who are low on confidence, disfunctional, poor teams. Points will come, I'm sure of it. |
I don't believe points won't come, but I'd also argue we had enough to be 6/6 in the league in both of those games, and you could take having 4, maybe even 2 at a push. To come away with just 1 point suggests deficiencies not anticipated or noticed.
The Pep/SAF/Mourinho comparisons flying around are interesting, especially linked to the SBR ones earlier. Utd fans I know hate Jose right now, but when he leaves a club the players either weep or jump for joy there's very little shrugging and time looks to be up for him now because of that.
Hurst doesn't strike me as a man who cares what they think, and like Keane had with Edwards and Leadbitter et al. he brought players in who responded to that, so I'll be looking at Toto, Nolan, Jackson with keen interest in the next few weeks. You sense there is where he grafts on to the original players a sense of identity or not. | |
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| One thing I didn't like about Hurst's interview last night on 13:17 - Aug 15 with 2262 views | Mullet |
| One thing I didn't like about Hurst's interview last night on 12:16 - Aug 15 by Keaneish |
Why is "I" and "We" a bad thing? I like the approach. The "We" approach was a Mick McCarthy thing. Distinction between manager and player isn't a negative, it creates a position of authority, which Paul Hurst clearly feels is lacking given some criticisms of players.
Too much emphasis is placed on how players feel. Its about football, winning and being tough enough mentally to win. The more we get back to this the better but you're right, there is a balance which neither Keane, Jewell or MM could quite find consistently. Time will tell. Have to say, i'm enjoying this so far despite the results. Loads of optimism here still. |
You're way off about MM as been discussed in another thread and a little here. His man-management and in game management was the reason we stayed up and achieved initially for starters.
"I" and "we" are key insights into habits and ways of thinking. Good managers take the blame as part of the collective and praise individuals wherever possible. Excellent ones do it consistently and accurately. | |
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| One thing I didn't like about Hurst's interview last night on 13:18 - Aug 15 with 2245 views | Darth_Koont |
| One thing I didn't like about Hurst's interview last night on 13:07 - Aug 15 by Mullet |
Well also, with due respect the size of the fanbase and scrutiny of the league relative to his last club who were small by League 1 standards.
It shouldn't be an issue, but unfortunately it is because as we see with those he chose to remain, they quickly were painted negatively because of perceptions about them and the manager rather than onfield stuff exclusively. |
Yes, it's similar when fans were saying that Hurst clearly didn't rate Knudsen because of Hurst's pretty generic challenge that even World Cup players need to fight for a place. That disappeared as soon as Hurst was positive about JK, picked him for his first competitive games and didn't bring in any real competition for his place.
I guess with so little time and information to go on, people are reading a lot into every statement. I guess we'll need to see where we are in September and October to see who he genuinely rates and who he wants to build the team around. But I don't think it'll be much different from the current team and subs. | |
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| One thing I didn't like about Hurst's interview last night on 13:27 - Aug 15 with 2174 views | LegendofthePhoenix |
| One thing I didn't like about Hurst's interview last night on 11:44 - Aug 15 by Mullet |
There are moments like those that make me worry Hurst is feeling the strain of stepping up, it's not like he can say he's managed or played at a higher level to the senior players either.
Of course that did no good for Roy or Jewell, but if he's building a relationship where he is distant and distinct it wouldn't matter anyway. I just hope he also practices what he preaches, it's far too early to judge him on that. But it won't be for long.
For all of the issues with Mick, no one could ever doubt out of all Evans' managers he walked the walk. |
I agree, this is a big step up for PH, and he will be learning fast what it is like to go to a much bigger club and have everything analysed. However, when Sir Bob came to Portman Road, he inherited an ageing team and had to go thorugh a lot of pain and calls for him to be sacked. Sir Bob was given time, and we need to allow the same for PH, it is no use lamenting about Mick. This is PH's team now, and it is going to take months for the team to fully understand how he wants them to play and to learn each others strengths, weaknesses and when to play balls etc.
Now that we all know that PH is not happy with the players , I do hope that going forwards he keeps it in the dressing room or in the training room. Whoever thought we'd be asking for less forthrightness from the manager? |  |
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| One thing I didn't like about Hurst's interview last night on 13:34 - Aug 15 with 2132 views | AshFinland |
| One thing I didn't like about Hurst's interview last night on 10:50 - Aug 15 by Mullet |
It's not after last night though, it's happened since pre-season in 2 or 3 different ways at least. Particularly around those being sold/out of the team.
Hurst is starting to open himself up a little here if he's not careful. Press interactions should be bland and meaningless by and large, because of the social media culture change unfortunately. |
After the comments Paul Hurst made in pre-season calling out the squad's general poor level of fitness and Tom Adeyemi's willingness (or lack thereof) to play through the pain barrier, I made a comparison between our new manager's style in dealing with the media and Roy Keane's. We would get poor result after poor result and it was invariably the fault of the club's culture or individual players. This did not end well.
I don't know whether Paul Hurst is a good man manager or not. Unlike a lot of people on this board, I do not have extensive behind the scenes knowledge of what happened at Grimsby or Shrewsbury. All I would say is that he needs to be very careful not to alienate his players. Several of you have held up Ferguson and Mourinho as examples of managers who have publicly called out players to good effect. If memory serves correctly both of them enjoyed their greatest successes with an "us against them" mentality, in which all problems were addressed within the dressing room and a united front was presented outwardly. [Post edited 15 Aug 2018 13:38]
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| "Ridicule is nothing to be scared of." |
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| One thing I didn't like about Hurst's interview last night on 15:44 - Aug 15 with 1922 views | ITFC_Forever |
PH made similar comments early in ore-season which although he wouldn’t have meant for it to happen, led to our moronic fans (of which we seem to have far too many), plus a number who should know better, using it as an excuse to dig out and pick on whichever player they don’t like at that moment in time.
The fact that PH’s reign has not started with the results we all want has simply given an excuse to the divs to pick on remnants from the Mick era, new signings who are settling in to a new club and in most cases, a bigger club than they’ve been used too, the new manager, ME and whoever else takes their fancy.
The sheer venom and hate some have makes me wonder why some bother supporting a football team. Perhaps they should choose a new hobby.
And you can bet that when results / performances improve, they’ll be the slowest to give credit where it’s due.... if you’re going to dish the abuse out, you should be big enough to praise when the time is right as well. But we all know they won’t. |  |
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