| Blimey! 16:22 - Nov 9 with 4090 views | GlasgowBlue |
Jo Johnson has set the cat amongst the pigeons.
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| Blimey! on 16:24 - Nov 9 with 4065 views | J2BLUE |
I doubt he will be the last as the end draws near.
I think a second referendum is the only way out. |  |
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| Blimey! on 16:29 - Nov 9 with 4024 views | GeoffSentence |
What has triggered this? Has he seen the proposed deal? |  |
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| Blimey! on 16:35 - Nov 9 with 3996 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Blimey! on 16:29 - Nov 9 by GeoffSentence |
What has triggered this? Has he seen the proposed deal? |
28 months of crass incompetence by the Government I suspect. |  |
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| Blimey! on 16:35 - Nov 9 with 3993 views | stig4532 |
At least he has conviction to speak out against Theresa the appeaser.
Brexit has been delibrately fudged by the incompetant Westminster elite to make us change our minds and vote to remain in a 2nd referendum.
However, I do support a referendum on a deal or no deal (WTO) situation, with no option to remain in the EU. |  | | |
| Blimey! on 16:40 - Nov 9 with 3958 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Blimey! on 16:35 - Nov 9 by stig4532 |
At least he has conviction to speak out against Theresa the appeaser.
Brexit has been delibrately fudged by the incompetant Westminster elite to make us change our minds and vote to remain in a 2nd referendum.
However, I do support a referendum on a deal or no deal (WTO) situation, with no option to remain in the EU. |
"Deliberately fudged by the incompetent". How does that work then? It may just be incompetence.
You are invoking excuse number 4 in the levers toolkit, and this guy says it so much better than I could.
"It’s the Remainers’ fault
The fourth excuse is that all would have been well but for Remainers who are accused, variously, of sabotage, treachery and of talking Brexit down. Often, it’s a variant of the paranoid idea about the elite — meaning the Civil Service, Judiciary, BBC, CBI, IoD, House of Lords but not, mysteriously, the ex-public schoolboys, millionaires and hedge funds that support Brexit. Sometimes it’s the entire 48% of voters who didn’t back Brexit."
http://chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.com/2018/05/brexiters-are-running-away-from. | |
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| Blimey! on 16:48 - Nov 9 with 3933 views | homer_123 |
| Blimey! on 16:40 - Nov 9 by Swansea_Blue |
"Deliberately fudged by the incompetent". How does that work then? It may just be incompetence.
You are invoking excuse number 4 in the levers toolkit, and this guy says it so much better than I could.
"It’s the Remainers’ fault
The fourth excuse is that all would have been well but for Remainers who are accused, variously, of sabotage, treachery and of talking Brexit down. Often, it’s a variant of the paranoid idea about the elite — meaning the Civil Service, Judiciary, BBC, CBI, IoD, House of Lords but not, mysteriously, the ex-public schoolboys, millionaires and hedge funds that support Brexit. Sometimes it’s the entire 48% of voters who didn’t back Brexit."
http://chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.com/2018/05/brexiters-are-running-away-from. |
I think we need to agree on one thing here.
Leaving the EU isn't the 'fault' of leavers voting leave or not enough remainders voting remain.
The reason this is coming to pass is remarkably simple that I'll sum up in 2 points.
1. A political party wanted to sort out it's own internal issues and, as a results, it's leader found himself having to deliver on a promise. In short, the Conservatives were trying to sort out a party issue.
2. Europe - fundamentally, not one single poltical party since the 70s has dared grasp Europe as a positive. The narrative from all parties, media and others sources of information has been overwhelming negative. Our position within the EU by other countries is one of a dissenting voice (although we are welcomed for this by the likes of Denmark for example) - rarely is the EU discussed as a general positive - the focus and discussion is nearly always negative.
So, thanks to the Conservatives - we had a referendum that the public largely wasn't fussed about having. Couple that with a negative narrative our a forty year period and it's no surprise that many voted leave.
It's not really the fault of the UK public - it's such a complex topic that even the experts can't fully explain what the consequences are of staying or leaving the EU so how is Joe Public going to know.
Leavers and Remainers have been let down and should be united in the failing our political leaders. |  |
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| Blimey! on 16:51 - Nov 9 with 3915 views | Withnail |
| Blimey! on 16:24 - Nov 9 by J2BLUE |
I doubt he will be the last as the end draws near.
I think a second referendum is the only way out. |
A third referendum you mean.
Ain't gonna happen. |  | | |
| Blimey! on 16:58 - Nov 9 with 3887 views | StokieBlue |
Pretty hard to argue with any of that.
I notice he's gone the whole hog and included the option to remain in the EU on his proposed options for the ballot.
It's the way out. May knows it, all the parties know it and the public know it.
SB |  |
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| Blimey! on 17:13 - Nov 9 with 3848 views | XYZ |
| Blimey! on 16:48 - Nov 9 by homer_123 |
I think we need to agree on one thing here.
Leaving the EU isn't the 'fault' of leavers voting leave or not enough remainders voting remain.
The reason this is coming to pass is remarkably simple that I'll sum up in 2 points.
1. A political party wanted to sort out it's own internal issues and, as a results, it's leader found himself having to deliver on a promise. In short, the Conservatives were trying to sort out a party issue.
2. Europe - fundamentally, not one single poltical party since the 70s has dared grasp Europe as a positive. The narrative from all parties, media and others sources of information has been overwhelming negative. Our position within the EU by other countries is one of a dissenting voice (although we are welcomed for this by the likes of Denmark for example) - rarely is the EU discussed as a general positive - the focus and discussion is nearly always negative.
So, thanks to the Conservatives - we had a referendum that the public largely wasn't fussed about having. Couple that with a negative narrative our a forty year period and it's no surprise that many voted leave.
It's not really the fault of the UK public - it's such a complex topic that even the experts can't fully explain what the consequences are of staying or leaving the EU so how is Joe Public going to know.
Leavers and Remainers have been let down and should be united in the failing our political leaders. |
3. It's what Putin, Trump and chums wanted and paid for |  | | |
| Blimey! on 17:14 - Nov 9 with 3848 views | Steve_M |
| Blimey! on 16:58 - Nov 9 by StokieBlue |
Pretty hard to argue with any of that.
I notice he's gone the whole hog and included the option to remain in the EU on his proposed options for the ballot.
It's the way out. May knows it, all the parties know it and the public know it.
SB |
And by the time we've publicly admitted that, the EU position will have hardened top something reminiscent of De Gaulle in 1961. |  |
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| Blimey! on 17:49 - Nov 9 with 3774 views | Clapham_Junction |
Maugham has been doing a lot of interesting work on this.
Plus he goes some other good stuff via his Good Law project (e.g. taking on Uber over tax or workers' rights in the gig economy) |  | | |
| Blimey! on 17:55 - Nov 9 with 3742 views | Darth_Koont |
| Blimey! on 16:48 - Nov 9 by homer_123 |
I think we need to agree on one thing here.
Leaving the EU isn't the 'fault' of leavers voting leave or not enough remainders voting remain.
The reason this is coming to pass is remarkably simple that I'll sum up in 2 points.
1. A political party wanted to sort out it's own internal issues and, as a results, it's leader found himself having to deliver on a promise. In short, the Conservatives were trying to sort out a party issue.
2. Europe - fundamentally, not one single poltical party since the 70s has dared grasp Europe as a positive. The narrative from all parties, media and others sources of information has been overwhelming negative. Our position within the EU by other countries is one of a dissenting voice (although we are welcomed for this by the likes of Denmark for example) - rarely is the EU discussed as a general positive - the focus and discussion is nearly always negative.
So, thanks to the Conservatives - we had a referendum that the public largely wasn't fussed about having. Couple that with a negative narrative our a forty year period and it's no surprise that many voted leave.
It's not really the fault of the UK public - it's such a complex topic that even the experts can't fully explain what the consequences are of staying or leaving the EU so how is Joe Public going to know.
Leavers and Remainers have been let down and should be united in the failing our political leaders. |
Agreed.
I'd also add in point 3. The Remain campaign was headed up by the major parties following an official line (Conservatives, Labour and the Lib Dems). Now, these parties that had dropped the ball for the disadvantaged and disenfranchised and avoided the investment needed to regenerate certain regions and industries were trying to say what was best for the country. Even the Lib Dems were culpable after their semi-betrayal as part of the coalition government.
For many people around the UK that trust was utterly broken. And while not the main reason in every case, it became easy to use a Leave vote as a protest vote.
Which leads to ...
What's particularly annoying in the aftermath is how none of the major parties seem to have taken on any responsibility for decades of bashing Europe and hammering certain of their own citizens ... overnight after the vote the narrative became about immigration and blaming others rather than any serious introspection.
Our politicians are just not fit for purpose as a representative and legislative body. And I imagine if someone as transparently shifty and incompetent as May can go all the way to the top then we're not going to see a new breed of principled politician who wants to serve the public rather than themselves any time soon. Certainly not without dismantling the First Past The Post system first and the two behemoth parties that system always produces. In our case, politics is about power not representation — we don't even have the saving grace of the US or Canada's state or provincial government to push power and representation out to the regions. I certainly think Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland have got better deals and are on the right path but the North West and North East of England are hideously underrepresented and underfunded for that size of population.
And of course, that's the core of the Leave vote right there. [Post edited 9 Nov 2018 17:58]
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| Blimey! on 17:57 - Nov 9 with 3730 views | Herbivore |
What's this? A Johnson acting out of principle? I'm aghast. |  |
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| Blimey! on 18:00 - Nov 9 with 3715 views | Darth_Koont |
| Blimey! on 17:57 - Nov 9 by Herbivore |
What's this? A Johnson acting out of principle? I'm aghast. |
I get the feeling BoJo is the black sheep of the family. Certainly he's the most morally and politically elastic member of that family, maybe even the world. | |
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| Blimey! on 18:01 - Nov 9 with 3712 views | Steve_M |
It's a political construct so if the will is there in all sides then it could still be. Once we're part 29 March then we're out and probably for a very long time.
It just depends how much goodwill is left after two years of utter incompetence and World War II allusions, not a lot I suspect. It might take a change of government to achieve that except that Corbyn is the keenest Brexiter of all. | |
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| Blimey! on 18:02 - Nov 9 with 3705 views | hampstead_blue |
Checkers is a crock of...........He's the first of many |  |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
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| Blimey! on 18:03 - Nov 9 with 3705 views | DanTheMan |
Very interesting timing.
This from the BBC article is ridiculous:
'And there are several other ministers of a similar rank, who hold very similar views. Not long ago, one of them said, "for me, it could be an issue of party or country".'
That's not an issue. Country first. You're an MP. That's your job. I'm amazed that anybody thinks that's a decision. |  |
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| Blimey! on 18:06 - Nov 9 with 3689 views | J2BLUE |
| Blimey! on 18:03 - Nov 9 by DanTheMan |
Very interesting timing.
This from the BBC article is ridiculous:
'And there are several other ministers of a similar rank, who hold very similar views. Not long ago, one of them said, "for me, it could be an issue of party or country".'
That's not an issue. Country first. You're an MP. That's your job. I'm amazed that anybody thinks that's a decision. |
To be fair they might agree with that. They might just be saying they'll be forced to go against their party. | |
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| Blimey! on 18:07 - Nov 9 with 3679 views | DanTheMan |
| Blimey! on 18:06 - Nov 9 by J2BLUE |
To be fair they might agree with that. They might just be saying they'll be forced to go against their party. |
Fair point. | |
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| Blimey! on 19:58 - Nov 9 with 3561 views | britbiker |
Unless I'm mistaken he was a remainer and therefore has an interest in creating another news story. |  | | |
| Blimey! on 20:11 - Nov 9 with 3536 views | J2BLUE |
| Blimey! on 19:58 - Nov 9 by britbiker |
Unless I'm mistaken he was a remainer and therefore has an interest in creating another news story. |
Unlike Johnson, Davis, Farage and Rees-Mogg who have all been silent. | |
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| Blimey! on 20:18 - Nov 9 with 3526 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Blimey! on 18:00 - Nov 9 by Darth_Koont |
I get the feeling BoJo is the black sheep of the family. Certainly he's the most morally and politically elastic member of that family, maybe even the world. |
“Morally and politically elastic”.
Top work. A brilliantly understated description for the turncoat adulterer. | |
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| Blimey! on 22:30 - Nov 9 with 3426 views | baxterbasics |
| Blimey! on 16:40 - Nov 9 by Swansea_Blue |
"Deliberately fudged by the incompetent". How does that work then? It may just be incompetence.
You are invoking excuse number 4 in the levers toolkit, and this guy says it so much better than I could.
"It’s the Remainers’ fault
The fourth excuse is that all would have been well but for Remainers who are accused, variously, of sabotage, treachery and of talking Brexit down. Often, it’s a variant of the paranoid idea about the elite — meaning the Civil Service, Judiciary, BBC, CBI, IoD, House of Lords but not, mysteriously, the ex-public schoolboys, millionaires and hedge funds that support Brexit. Sometimes it’s the entire 48% of voters who didn’t back Brexit."
http://chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.com/2018/05/brexiters-are-running-away-from. |
Whereas Corbyn (who we all know is a Brexiter at heart) will just blame ‘Zionists’ |  |
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| Blimey! on 00:38 - Nov 10 with 3338 views | britbiker |
| Blimey! on 20:11 - Nov 9 by J2BLUE |
Unlike Johnson, Davis, Farage and Rees-Mogg who have all been silent. |
Totally agree they also have there own agendas. But the press making another big story over a remainer quiting his job seems a bit OTT to me. Would have been a bigger story if a brexiteer had quit. Personally I wouldn't trust anything the Johnson family came out with. | | | |
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