| clear the decks and go for a new drastic vision 08:37 - Feb 25 with 3830 views | keanekipper |
First of all get rid of lambert, then replace him with someone who is involved with the youth system like nash or a young coach with an ipswich affliation like dyer.
Then implement a club rule where you say 6/7 of the starting line up have to have been in the academy at some point in their career, coupled with every team playing the same ethos and mantra which is headed up by someone like klug.
This might be drastic but what we are doing isnt working and we arent going anywhere fast and personally i can accept bad days if i can get on board with a vision and a club ethos that connects everyone. Kind of like an athletic bilbao where you will have good periods and bad periods but ultimatly you know the club will always have passion heart desire as everyone will have a strong connection to the club. [Post edited 25 Feb 2020 8:38]
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| clear the decks and go for a new drastic vision on 08:45 - Feb 25 with 2917 views | davblue |
Is our youth system really that prolific that we would be able to maintain that over a longer period of time? |  | | |
| clear the decks and go for a new drastic vision on 08:46 - Feb 25 with 2909 views | skyblue23 |
| clear the decks and go for a new drastic vision on 08:45 - Feb 25 by davblue |
Is our youth system really that prolific that we would be able to maintain that over a longer period of time? |
No. |  |
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| clear the decks and go for a new drastic vision on 08:59 - Feb 25 with 2847 views | keanekipper |
| clear the decks and go for a new drastic vision on 08:45 - Feb 25 by davblue |
Is our youth system really that prolific that we would be able to maintain that over a longer period of time? |
It would take time and work, but once you start providing a consistant and gaurenteed pathway to the first team i think it would act in your favour when recruiting youngsters, which you hope would then result in a more prolific youth system. | | | |
| clear the decks and go for a new drastic vision on 09:00 - Feb 25 with 2850 views | Guthrum |
| clear the decks and go for a new drastic vision on 08:45 - Feb 25 by davblue |
Is our youth system really that prolific that we would be able to maintain that over a longer period of time? |
Not and maintain a sufficient standard to trouble the upper divisions of the Football League. Also, it still doesn't stop richer clubs coming along and buying our best young players.
Look at the EFL Trophy - all bar two of the 16 Prem U21 sides were knocked out before the third round (one of those only got through on penalties). By L1 and L2 clubs, often themselves playing weakened teams. |  |
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| clear the decks and go for a new drastic vision on 09:04 - Feb 25 with 2829 views | homer_123 |
| clear the decks and go for a new drastic vision on 09:00 - Feb 25 by Guthrum |
Not and maintain a sufficient standard to trouble the upper divisions of the Football League. Also, it still doesn't stop richer clubs coming along and buying our best young players.
Look at the EFL Trophy - all bar two of the 16 Prem U21 sides were knocked out before the third round (one of those only got through on penalties). By L1 and L2 clubs, often themselves playing weakened teams. |
I think there is a decent argument for making much more use of them though?
Have the likes of Judge, Nolan, Norwood, Edwards all been 'that' much more consistent/ effective than the younger players might have been if given the same game time?
Look how Downes and Woolfy have progressed for example, with consistent game time. |  |
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| clear the decks and go for a new drastic vision on 09:08 - Feb 25 with 2816 views | keanekipper |
| clear the decks and go for a new drastic vision on 09:00 - Feb 25 by Guthrum |
Not and maintain a sufficient standard to trouble the upper divisions of the Football League. Also, it still doesn't stop richer clubs coming along and buying our best young players.
Look at the EFL Trophy - all bar two of the 16 Prem U21 sides were knocked out before the third round (one of those only got through on penalties). By L1 and L2 clubs, often themselves playing weakened teams. |
they are fully U21 sides, you would still be able to sign 4-5 players and with clever recruiting you could sign players like michael morrison who started with the club but went away and developed. [Post edited 25 Feb 2020 9:09]
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| clear the decks and go for a new drastic vision on 09:10 - Feb 25 with 2800 views | Guthrum |
| clear the decks and go for a new drastic vision on 09:04 - Feb 25 by homer_123 |
I think there is a decent argument for making much more use of them though?
Have the likes of Judge, Nolan, Norwood, Edwards all been 'that' much more consistent/ effective than the younger players might have been if given the same game time?
Look how Downes and Woolfy have progressed for example, with consistent game time. |
Yes, but having three or four players of sufficient standard is not enough to make a team. Plus there is nobody experienced for the youngsters to be learning from.
If one or two of the best are being bought by higher clubs every season (as is very likely to happen), that further drains the pool of talent.
Younger players, not fully developed physically, are quite susceptible to injury (Dozzell, Bishop, Lankester, etc., etc.), so the pressure of having to play 46 matches plus cups may be too much. | |
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| clear the decks and go for a new drastic vision on 09:12 - Feb 25 with 2789 views | jeera |
I'm all for snatching them from birth right now if it helps.
Train them in complete isolation from the world until they're so cohesive we'll win everything. [Post edited 25 Feb 2020 19:46]
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| clear the decks and go for a new drastic vision on 09:12 - Feb 25 with 2777 views | Guthrum |
| clear the decks and go for a new drastic vision on 09:08 - Feb 25 by keanekipper |
they are fully U21 sides, you would still be able to sign 4-5 players and with clever recruiting you could sign players like michael morrison who started with the club but went away and developed. [Post edited 25 Feb 2020 9:09]
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So very similar to the kind of teams we've been putting out in cup games for several years. That often lose to much lower opposition. | |
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| clear the decks and go for a new drastic vision on 09:15 - Feb 25 with 2763 views | homer_123 |
| clear the decks and go for a new drastic vision on 09:10 - Feb 25 by Guthrum |
Yes, but having three or four players of sufficient standard is not enough to make a team. Plus there is nobody experienced for the youngsters to be learning from.
If one or two of the best are being bought by higher clubs every season (as is very likely to happen), that further drains the pool of talent.
Younger players, not fully developed physically, are quite susceptible to injury (Dozzell, Bishop, Lankester, etc., etc.), so the pressure of having to play 46 matches plus cups may be too much. |
Not advocating moving to an entire youth team Guthers.
I think we can have a better mix of youth/ senior players - more so than we have now. | |
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| clear the decks and go for a new drastic vision on 09:18 - Feb 25 with 2750 views | keanekipper |
| clear the decks and go for a new drastic vision on 09:12 - Feb 25 by Guthrum |
So very similar to the kind of teams we've been putting out in cup games for several years. That often lose to much lower opposition. |
Players who have been brought in for one game, with what is normally 11 changes, dont think they are comparible situations, to them playing in a settled consistant team. | | | |
| clear the decks and go for a new drastic vision on 09:24 - Feb 25 with 2720 views | Guthrum |
| clear the decks and go for a new drastic vision on 09:15 - Feb 25 by homer_123 |
Not advocating moving to an entire youth team Guthers.
I think we can have a better mix of youth/ senior players - more so than we have now. |
I'm not convinced we have enough good youth players (who can stay fit, mentally and physically) to do much better than we are now, without the competitiveness dropping. They may be able to put in the odd blistering performance, but over a whole season, I'm concerned it may be too much to expect.
It's taken several years of development in the senior team for Downes to become as good as he is. He's been allowed to mature as an option who has grown into the role. If we're throwing them straight in from the youth setup, they don't get that. | |
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| clear the decks and go for a new drastic vision on 09:34 - Feb 25 with 2675 views | Harry_Palmer |
| clear the decks and go for a new drastic vision on 09:04 - Feb 25 by homer_123 |
I think there is a decent argument for making much more use of them though?
Have the likes of Judge, Nolan, Norwood, Edwards all been 'that' much more consistent/ effective than the younger players might have been if given the same game time?
Look how Downes and Woolfy have progressed for example, with consistent game time. |
Not sure we have a younger alternative to Norwood currently but I agree with your general point.
If we had played El Mizouni, Dozzell & Dobra instead of the likes of Judge and Nolan this season we would surely be no worse off than we are now, and we would have gained in the longer term with the development of those players.
We need a clear out the higher earning senior flops at the end of the season. [Post edited 25 Feb 2020 9:35]
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| clear the decks and go for a new drastic vision on 09:37 - Feb 25 with 2667 views | Herbivore |
We don't have anyone at the club in their prime years who has been through the academy so next season we'd be starting every week with 6 or 7 kids. We'd very likely end up relegated. It's a noble idea but at the moment it's just not practical. |  |
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| clear the decks and go for a new drastic vision on 09:38 - Feb 25 with 2656 views | Harry_Palmer |
I don't think you can really start imposing restrictions on yourself like that but agree that we need to use the younger players more, especially when the senior players are not producing. | | | |
| clear the decks and go for a new drastic vision on 09:46 - Feb 25 with 2637 views | keanekipper |
| clear the decks and go for a new drastic vision on 09:37 - Feb 25 by Herbivore |
We don't have anyone at the club in their prime years who has been through the academy so next season we'd be starting every week with 6 or 7 kids. We'd very likely end up relegated. It's a noble idea but at the moment it's just not practical. |
This would where your recruitment would have to be clever, someone like ed upson for example would count to the quota and he brings a wealth of exp. | | | |
| clear the decks and go for a new drastic vision on 09:47 - Feb 25 with 2631 views | WD19 |
Sometimes 7 words is enough.
(10 if you want to push the boat out) [Post edited 25 Feb 2020 9:50]
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| clear the decks and go for a new drastic vision on 09:48 - Feb 25 with 2629 views | Herbivore |
| clear the decks and go for a new drastic vision on 09:46 - Feb 25 by keanekipper |
This would where your recruitment would have to be clever, someone like ed upson for example would count to the quota and he brings a wealth of exp. |
Or we could just be sensible instead? Why restrict outseveles to having to sign players we rejected as kids when they aren't very good just to fulfil a self imposed quota? | |
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| clear the decks and go for a new drastic vision on 09:50 - Feb 25 with 2616 views | WeWereZombies |
| clear the decks and go for a new drastic vision on 09:48 - Feb 25 by Herbivore |
Or we could just be sensible instead? Why restrict outseveles to having to sign players we rejected as kids when they aren't very good just to fulfil a self imposed quota? |
Presumably that is the 'clear the decks' approach that happens the year after the first 'clear the decks'... |  |
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| clear the decks and go for a new drastic vision on 09:51 - Feb 25 with 2607 views | keanekipper |
| clear the decks and go for a new drastic vision on 09:48 - Feb 25 by Herbivore |
Or we could just be sensible instead? Why restrict outseveles to having to sign players we rejected as kids when they aren't very good just to fulfil a self imposed quota? |
Then you dont sign them and blood a youngster. Upson would be no worse than nolan and some of the others. Thought he had a good game at PR | | | |
| clear the decks and go for a new drastic vision on 09:53 - Feb 25 with 2592 views | Herbivore |
| clear the decks and go for a new drastic vision on 09:51 - Feb 25 by keanekipper |
Then you dont sign them and blood a youngster. Upson would be no worse than nolan and some of the others. Thought he had a good game at PR |
Upson is standard lower league fodder. If we're going to sign players then we shouldn't limit ourselves to not very good ones who happened to play for our youth team once. Your solution of play another kid instead is admirable but also incredibly naive. We're going nowhere but down if we try and line up with 6 or 7 kids every week. Did you see how Bolton faired back in August? | |
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| clear the decks and go for a new drastic vision on 09:55 - Feb 25 with 2578 views | Half_Idiot |
| clear the decks and go for a new drastic vision on 09:37 - Feb 25 by Herbivore |
We don't have anyone at the club in their prime years who has been through the academy so next season we'd be starting every week with 6 or 7 kids. We'd very likely end up relegated. It's a noble idea but at the moment it's just not practical. |
We'd also struggle to keep hold of them after a decent season or two so would constantly be starting from scratch with inexperienced players. It would be the demise of the club!
There's no way Evans would be strong enough to turn down good offers for these players. There's also no way we would be able to persuade a youngster to stay another season or two until we have a suitable youth replacement if an offer comes in from a bigger club. | | | |
| clear the decks and go for a new drastic vision on 10:08 - Feb 25 with 2530 views | ElephantintheRoom |
Sounds very much like a 5 point plan to me.
In some ways this has already been trialled when MM departed stage left.... Klug brought in a few youngsters and things got worse. Klug didnt want the job full time and none of his staff stepped up to the plate - then we got the polar opposite with Hurst.
At no time in the last TWELVE years has anybody stood up for the academy and attempted to push a club vision through.... and maybe you can't under the current ownership (and impatient, intolerant fan base)
I reckon your vision might come to pass when the owner departs - and Town are left to pick up the pieces in much the same way it has happened at Luton and Portsmouth. | |
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| clear the decks and go for a new drastic vision on 10:34 - Feb 25 with 2465 views | homer_123 |
| clear the decks and go for a new drastic vision on 09:24 - Feb 25 by Guthrum |
I'm not convinced we have enough good youth players (who can stay fit, mentally and physically) to do much better than we are now, without the competitiveness dropping. They may be able to put in the odd blistering performance, but over a whole season, I'm concerned it may be too much to expect.
It's taken several years of development in the senior team for Downes to become as good as he is. He's been allowed to mature as an option who has grown into the role. If we're throwing them straight in from the youth setup, they don't get that. |
We have enough in certain positions to rotate - along with using the more mature/ experienced players.
Surely, Dozzell getting a run of ten games instead of Judge (given early season form) would have seen us no worse off?
Yes, they may not be able to play all the games (Woolfy - for example, does look a little more ropey at the moment) but if you have a mix of younger players and experienced then you've got to use them - otherwise what is the point?
Dozzell needs to be playing football, for example. | |
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| clear the decks and go for a new drastic vision on 10:37 - Feb 25 with 2444 views | Pecker |
Warnock. |  | | |
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