| Moany virus thread 10:42 - May 16 with 3314 views | vapour_trail |
"Right from the start we've tried to throw a protective ring around our care homes. We set out our first advice in February... we've made sure care homes have the resources they need" says Health Secretary, Matt Hancock.
This is an outright lie.
Residents have been returned to their care homes untested and unwell to ease pressure on hospitals. Care homes have had the virus delivered to their door by the approach Hancock and his colleagues have taken and thousands have been killed as a result.
He should be held to account for this BS but that of course won’t happen.
The lying cnt. |  |
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| Moany virus thread on 10:43 - May 16 with 2442 views | Herbivore |
Outright lies have been normalised now. Sadly not many people care, so long as it's their side lying. |  |
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| Moany virus thread on 10:44 - May 16 with 2445 views | artsbossbeard |
Unbelievable isn't it?
He's getting some twitter stick this morning over this, which is nice. |  |
| Please note: prior to hitting the post button, I've double checked for anything that could be construed as "Anti Semitic" and to the best of my knowledge it isn't. Anything deemed to be of a Xenophobic nature is therefore purely accidental or down to your own misconstruing. | | Poll: | Raining in IP8 - shall I get the washing in? |
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| Moany virus thread on 10:55 - May 16 with 2396 views | pointofblue |
| Moany virus thread on 10:44 - May 16 by artsbossbeard |
Unbelievable isn't it?
He's getting some twitter stick this morning over this, which is nice. |
Though Twitter has, for the most part, always been anti-Conservative as has a lot of the internet as a whole. The important thing is to see changes in those who tend to usually support them. |  |
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| Moany virus thread on 10:56 - May 16 with 2404 views | Ely_Blue |
Shame those care homes (of which I believe 85% are private not government owned and run) didn’t flag this and spend some of the vast sums that they charge on doing their own testing or protecting their residents better!
Let’s face it the care system in the private sector must be awash with money given how much they charge (and let’s face it nobody takes a business on from the govt if they can’t make a serious profit).
They seem happy to take people’s money to care for elderly relatives when the going is good but when the sh1t has hit the fan they are happy to let the govt take the flak |  |
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| Moany virus thread on 10:59 - May 16 with 2377 views | Herbivore |
| Moany virus thread on 10:56 - May 16 by Ely_Blue |
Shame those care homes (of which I believe 85% are private not government owned and run) didn’t flag this and spend some of the vast sums that they charge on doing their own testing or protecting their residents better!
Let’s face it the care system in the private sector must be awash with money given how much they charge (and let’s face it nobody takes a business on from the govt if they can’t make a serious profit).
They seem happy to take people’s money to care for elderly relatives when the going is good but when the sh1t has hit the fan they are happy to let the govt take the flak |
You've gone full eejit lately. I think callis has broken you. | |
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| Moany virus thread on 11:02 - May 16 with 2369 views | Ely_Blue |
| Moany virus thread on 10:59 - May 16 by Herbivore |
You've gone full eejit lately. I think callis has broken you. |
Not denying the guy lied but just offering an alternative perspective or point of view | |
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| Moany virus thread on 11:06 - May 16 with 2360 views | pointofblue |
| Moany virus thread on 10:56 - May 16 by Ely_Blue |
Shame those care homes (of which I believe 85% are private not government owned and run) didn’t flag this and spend some of the vast sums that they charge on doing their own testing or protecting their residents better!
Let’s face it the care system in the private sector must be awash with money given how much they charge (and let’s face it nobody takes a business on from the govt if they can’t make a serious profit).
They seem happy to take people’s money to care for elderly relatives when the going is good but when the sh1t has hit the fan they are happy to let the govt take the flak |
My mate works in a care home. They locked down before being told to by the government. They were forced to take untested residents from hospital despite highlighting the risk and saying they did not wish to do so, otherwise they’d lose funding. They put all the provisions in place they could when bringing the new arrivals into the home but it still got in.
Would it have got in without the new arrivals? Possibly, via the carers. But if efficient testing had been in place it would have been far easier to control rather than spreading like wildfire. | |
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| Moany virus thread on 11:19 - May 16 with 2326 views | lowhouseblue |
| Moany virus thread on 10:56 - May 16 by Ely_Blue |
Shame those care homes (of which I believe 85% are private not government owned and run) didn’t flag this and spend some of the vast sums that they charge on doing their own testing or protecting their residents better!
Let’s face it the care system in the private sector must be awash with money given how much they charge (and let’s face it nobody takes a business on from the govt if they can’t make a serious profit).
They seem happy to take people’s money to care for elderly relatives when the going is good but when the sh1t has hit the fan they are happy to let the govt take the flak |
the reality is that care homes are impossible to protect. in 2017/18 70% of all flu outbreaks (i.e. clusters of cases) were in care homes. i can't find the data on flu deaths but they're likely to be similarly concentrated in care homes. the residents are vulnerable (many have other serious illness and very very sadly on average people spend a relatively short time (40 weeks?)in a care home before some pre-existing condition proves fatal), deaths with an infection of some sort in the final stages are common; for those with illnesses like dementia and alzyheimer's social distancing and strict hygiene are impossible - the nature of the care provided is inevitably close up and messy; and staff often rely on public transport, and are more likely to work part-time with frequent shift changes etc, so isolating the care home isn't practical.
it's a tragedy, but any infectious outbreak from winter vomiting to flu to food poisoning is going to have a disproportionate incidence in settings like care homes. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Moany virus thread on 11:41 - May 16 with 2270 views | Herbivore |
| Moany virus thread on 11:02 - May 16 by Ely_Blue |
Not denying the guy lied but just offering an alternative perspective or point of view |
You've been keen to deflect criticism from the government throughout though, no matter how legitimate the criticism is. | |
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| Moany virus thread on 11:42 - May 16 with 2269 views | vapour_trail |
| Moany virus thread on 11:19 - May 16 by lowhouseblue |
the reality is that care homes are impossible to protect. in 2017/18 70% of all flu outbreaks (i.e. clusters of cases) were in care homes. i can't find the data on flu deaths but they're likely to be similarly concentrated in care homes. the residents are vulnerable (many have other serious illness and very very sadly on average people spend a relatively short time (40 weeks?)in a care home before some pre-existing condition proves fatal), deaths with an infection of some sort in the final stages are common; for those with illnesses like dementia and alzyheimer's social distancing and strict hygiene are impossible - the nature of the care provided is inevitably close up and messy; and staff often rely on public transport, and are more likely to work part-time with frequent shift changes etc, so isolating the care home isn't practical.
it's a tragedy, but any infectious outbreak from winter vomiting to flu to food poisoning is going to have a disproportionate incidence in settings like care homes. |
You concur with Hancock then? | |
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| Moany virus thread on 11:45 - May 16 with 2260 views | Herbivore |
| Moany virus thread on 11:19 - May 16 by lowhouseblue |
the reality is that care homes are impossible to protect. in 2017/18 70% of all flu outbreaks (i.e. clusters of cases) were in care homes. i can't find the data on flu deaths but they're likely to be similarly concentrated in care homes. the residents are vulnerable (many have other serious illness and very very sadly on average people spend a relatively short time (40 weeks?)in a care home before some pre-existing condition proves fatal), deaths with an infection of some sort in the final stages are common; for those with illnesses like dementia and alzyheimer's social distancing and strict hygiene are impossible - the nature of the care provided is inevitably close up and messy; and staff often rely on public transport, and are more likely to work part-time with frequent shift changes etc, so isolating the care home isn't practical.
it's a tragedy, but any infectious outbreak from winter vomiting to flu to food poisoning is going to have a disproportionate incidence in settings like care homes. |
"But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Brother." | |
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| Moany virus thread on 11:52 - May 16 with 2241 views | Bluesquid |
| Moany virus thread on 11:19 - May 16 by lowhouseblue |
the reality is that care homes are impossible to protect. in 2017/18 70% of all flu outbreaks (i.e. clusters of cases) were in care homes. i can't find the data on flu deaths but they're likely to be similarly concentrated in care homes. the residents are vulnerable (many have other serious illness and very very sadly on average people spend a relatively short time (40 weeks?)in a care home before some pre-existing condition proves fatal), deaths with an infection of some sort in the final stages are common; for those with illnesses like dementia and alzyheimer's social distancing and strict hygiene are impossible - the nature of the care provided is inevitably close up and messy; and staff often rely on public transport, and are more likely to work part-time with frequent shift changes etc, so isolating the care home isn't practical.
it's a tragedy, but any infectious outbreak from winter vomiting to flu to food poisoning is going to have a disproportionate incidence in settings like care homes. |
Now with all that you've said about how difficult it is to protect care homes and how any infectious disease is going to take a heavy toll now picture this - as of the end of March key duties under the Care Act were withdrawn and with it the suspension of most local authority social care obligations.
So you've got a difficult situation made 100 fold worse with the introduction of the Coronavirus Act.
What these people needed was an increase in care instead of the greatly reduced care standards due to the Coronavirus Act being passed.
The Government were warned by charities and human rights experts back then about the risks to the elderly and other vulnerable people and here we are now with 18,000 excess care home deaths.
"Emergency measures to tackle the coronavirus will put disabled and older people at risk, charities and human rights experts are warning."
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/mar/23/uks-emergency-coronavirus-bill-w | | | |
| Moany virus thread on 11:55 - May 16 with 2236 views | norfsufblue |
| Moany virus thread on 11:19 - May 16 by lowhouseblue |
the reality is that care homes are impossible to protect. in 2017/18 70% of all flu outbreaks (i.e. clusters of cases) were in care homes. i can't find the data on flu deaths but they're likely to be similarly concentrated in care homes. the residents are vulnerable (many have other serious illness and very very sadly on average people spend a relatively short time (40 weeks?)in a care home before some pre-existing condition proves fatal), deaths with an infection of some sort in the final stages are common; for those with illnesses like dementia and alzyheimer's social distancing and strict hygiene are impossible - the nature of the care provided is inevitably close up and messy; and staff often rely on public transport, and are more likely to work part-time with frequent shift changes etc, so isolating the care home isn't practical.
it's a tragedy, but any infectious outbreak from winter vomiting to flu to food poisoning is going to have a disproportionate incidence in settings like care homes. |
I think what you've done there is taken a hammer and hit a nail firmly on the head with it!.... it's very sad but without the entire staff going into isolation with the residents I can't see how this terrible virus was not eventually going to find its way into the sector..... and even if it didn't... what would have been the consequences of total isolation for the people in there for 6,8,10 months or even over a year. It just seems an impossible situation. |  | | |
| Moany virus thread on 12:14 - May 16 with 2211 views | vapour_trail |
| Moany virus thread on 11:55 - May 16 by norfsufblue |
I think what you've done there is taken a hammer and hit a nail firmly on the head with it!.... it's very sad but without the entire staff going into isolation with the residents I can't see how this terrible virus was not eventually going to find its way into the sector..... and even if it didn't... what would have been the consequences of total isolation for the people in there for 6,8,10 months or even over a year. It just seems an impossible situation. |
No he hasn’t.
Of course the virus was going to find its way into homes.
It didn’t have to be ushered in though, and for the health minister to claim protection was given to the sector, is pure fabrication. | |
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| Moany virus thread on 12:23 - May 16 with 2185 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Moany virus thread on 12:14 - May 16 by vapour_trail |
No he hasn’t.
Of course the virus was going to find its way into homes.
It didn’t have to be ushered in though, and for the health minister to claim protection was given to the sector, is pure fabrication. |
Hancock has dual responsibilities, NHS and social care.
He may have saved the former, although and man6 others would disagree, but he has certainly let down those in care homes.
Not just by letting the virus in but in keeping too many of those who contracted Covid-19 in care homes in situ rather than transferring them to hospitals where the level of care would undoubtedly have been greater. How many care homes have ventilators for example. |  |
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| Moany virus thread on 13:14 - May 16 with 2109 views | BlueBadger |
| Moany virus thread on 11:19 - May 16 by lowhouseblue |
the reality is that care homes are impossible to protect. in 2017/18 70% of all flu outbreaks (i.e. clusters of cases) were in care homes. i can't find the data on flu deaths but they're likely to be similarly concentrated in care homes. the residents are vulnerable (many have other serious illness and very very sadly on average people spend a relatively short time (40 weeks?)in a care home before some pre-existing condition proves fatal), deaths with an infection of some sort in the final stages are common; for those with illnesses like dementia and alzyheimer's social distancing and strict hygiene are impossible - the nature of the care provided is inevitably close up and messy; and staff often rely on public transport, and are more likely to work part-time with frequent shift changes etc, so isolating the care home isn't practical.
it's a tragedy, but any infectious outbreak from winter vomiting to flu to food poisoning is going to have a disproportionate incidence in settings like care homes. |
So, you shouldn't just turf already vulnerable people out of hospital willy-nilly with no testing and inadequate protective equipment in place into these closed environments full of vulnerable people then? [Post edited 16 May 2020 13:38]
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| Moany virus thread on 13:31 - May 16 with 2080 views | m14_blue |
| Moany virus thread on 11:19 - May 16 by lowhouseblue |
the reality is that care homes are impossible to protect. in 2017/18 70% of all flu outbreaks (i.e. clusters of cases) were in care homes. i can't find the data on flu deaths but they're likely to be similarly concentrated in care homes. the residents are vulnerable (many have other serious illness and very very sadly on average people spend a relatively short time (40 weeks?)in a care home before some pre-existing condition proves fatal), deaths with an infection of some sort in the final stages are common; for those with illnesses like dementia and alzyheimer's social distancing and strict hygiene are impossible - the nature of the care provided is inevitably close up and messy; and staff often rely on public transport, and are more likely to work part-time with frequent shift changes etc, so isolating the care home isn't practical.
it's a tragedy, but any infectious outbreak from winter vomiting to flu to food poisoning is going to have a disproportionate incidence in settings like care homes. |
What do you think of what Hancock said? | | | |
| Moany virus thread on 13:38 - May 16 with 2065 views | BlueBadger |
| Moany virus thread on 11:02 - May 16 by Ely_Blue |
Not denying the guy lied but just offering an alternative perspective or point of view |
Ah yes, the much-valued 'in defence of incompetence' perspective. | |
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| Moany virus thread on 14:38 - May 16 with 2000 views | lowhouseblue |
| Moany virus thread on 13:14 - May 16 by BlueBadger |
So, you shouldn't just turf already vulnerable people out of hospital willy-nilly with no testing and inadequate protective equipment in place into these closed environments full of vulnerable people then? [Post edited 16 May 2020 13:38]
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so imagine you were a hospital manager or consultant or who ever it is who has to make these incredibly difficult decisions. you're in the first weeks of a pandemic. the precise nature of the disease is unknown, but amongst those hospitalised there is a high death rate. the government and press have warned that the nhs may be overwhelmed. there's news footage of other countries with patients dying on trolleys in hospital corridors.
a patient with covid-19 symptoms arrives form a care home. they may have other conditions which mean that their life expectancy may be quite short regardless of covid-19. they may have dementia etc which makes them very distressed and makes it hard to manage any infection control risk. they are likely to have a care plan which prohibits invasive hospital treatment and presumes that they will die in their care home. you're not going to intubate them or place them intensive care because that would be cruel and unnecessary. all you an offer is palliative care which is the same as they would receive in the care home. you are greatly concerned with your hospital's capacity and with infection control. what do you do?
I'm not suggesting that there is a right answer here. but there needs to be some reality about why such decisions were made. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Moany virus thread on 14:40 - May 16 with 1994 views | lowhouseblue |
| Moany virus thread on 11:42 - May 16 by vapour_trail |
You concur with Hancock then? |
where did i say that? | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Moany virus thread on 14:49 - May 16 with 1971 views | GaryCooper |
| Moany virus thread on 10:56 - May 16 by Ely_Blue |
Shame those care homes (of which I believe 85% are private not government owned and run) didn’t flag this and spend some of the vast sums that they charge on doing their own testing or protecting their residents better!
Let’s face it the care system in the private sector must be awash with money given how much they charge (and let’s face it nobody takes a business on from the govt if they can’t make a serious profit).
They seem happy to take people’s money to care for elderly relatives when the going is good but when the sh1t has hit the fan they are happy to let the govt take the flak |
Don't be so bloody stupid, it was the NHS policy to send all but the critically ill out of hospital and back to their care homes. |  | | |
| Moany virus thread on 15:01 - May 16 with 1941 views | BlueBadger |
| Moany virus thread on 14:38 - May 16 by lowhouseblue |
so imagine you were a hospital manager or consultant or who ever it is who has to make these incredibly difficult decisions. you're in the first weeks of a pandemic. the precise nature of the disease is unknown, but amongst those hospitalised there is a high death rate. the government and press have warned that the nhs may be overwhelmed. there's news footage of other countries with patients dying on trolleys in hospital corridors.
a patient with covid-19 symptoms arrives form a care home. they may have other conditions which mean that their life expectancy may be quite short regardless of covid-19. they may have dementia etc which makes them very distressed and makes it hard to manage any infection control risk. they are likely to have a care plan which prohibits invasive hospital treatment and presumes that they will die in their care home. you're not going to intubate them or place them intensive care because that would be cruel and unnecessary. all you an offer is palliative care which is the same as they would receive in the care home. you are greatly concerned with your hospital's capacity and with infection control. what do you do?
I'm not suggesting that there is a right answer here. but there needs to be some reality about why such decisions were made. |
Then you identify and 'cohort' this group as best you can and test, test, test. I agree it's difficult but the attitude towards mass testing from on-high has facilitated the unfolding catastrophe in care homes. | |
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| Moany virus thread on 15:02 - May 16 with 1939 views | linhdi |
| Moany virus thread on 14:49 - May 16 by GaryCooper |
Don't be so bloody stupid, it was the NHS policy to send all but the critically ill out of hospital and back to their care homes. |
I can only talk from my own experience. My mum is in a well-run care home oop north. There are 100 residents, roughly half are dementia, rest are mostly on short life span (cancer etc). The home is part of a small regional group.
Management have kept me updated regularly as to what they are doing etc.
Early on, a resident was discharged back to the home from a major regional hospital with cough and fever (wasn't in hospital for that...). No Covid test had been carried out. Home isolated him in his room and scratched around for some basic PPE, also kept other residents on that floor in their rooms (luckily this wasn't the dementia floor).
All visitors were banned as early as 11th March. Two weeks later, they brought in a shift scheme, whereby all staff stay on site for a week at a time, again to minimise external contacts. Even GPs do appointments online (Skype, I guess).
So far, they have no confirmed cases. They are currently happy with the PPE they were able to get hold of (but only about 3 weeks ago).
They would like to test residents and, especially, carers. To date, they have been refused tests for any resident, even those with cough / cold type symptoms. They have also been refused tests for any asymptomatic carers. Those with symptoms have been required to attend a test centre around 40 miles away, which isn't even possible for many.
Even if they get unlucky in the future, I can only praise the management and carers. But I am utterly, totally disgusted by the actions and the lies of our government when it comes to the care home sector. | | | |
| Moany virus thread on 15:43 - May 16 with 1890 views | Ely_Blue |
| Moany virus thread on 13:38 - May 16 by BlueBadger |
Ah yes, the much-valued 'in defence of incompetence' perspective. |
Whatever you wish it to be | |
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| Moany virus thread on 15:45 - May 16 with 1884 views | Ely_Blue |
| Moany virus thread on 15:02 - May 16 by linhdi |
I can only talk from my own experience. My mum is in a well-run care home oop north. There are 100 residents, roughly half are dementia, rest are mostly on short life span (cancer etc). The home is part of a small regional group.
Management have kept me updated regularly as to what they are doing etc.
Early on, a resident was discharged back to the home from a major regional hospital with cough and fever (wasn't in hospital for that...). No Covid test had been carried out. Home isolated him in his room and scratched around for some basic PPE, also kept other residents on that floor in their rooms (luckily this wasn't the dementia floor).
All visitors were banned as early as 11th March. Two weeks later, they brought in a shift scheme, whereby all staff stay on site for a week at a time, again to minimise external contacts. Even GPs do appointments online (Skype, I guess).
So far, they have no confirmed cases. They are currently happy with the PPE they were able to get hold of (but only about 3 weeks ago).
They would like to test residents and, especially, carers. To date, they have been refused tests for any resident, even those with cough / cold type symptoms. They have also been refused tests for any asymptomatic carers. Those with symptoms have been required to attend a test centre around 40 miles away, which isn't even possible for many.
Even if they get unlucky in the future, I can only praise the management and carers. But I am utterly, totally disgusted by the actions and the lies of our government when it comes to the care home sector. |
And this is a prime example of a well run care home, surely what all the rest of them should have done! | |
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