| A workaround to the salary cap 12:55 - Aug 11 with 12970 views | Kesgrave_Exile |
I was having a think as to how we can circumvent the new salary cap and I think the only way you can do that is load up the promotion bonus which is unrestricted.
For example:
Town sign a player and agree that without the cap the wage would be agreed at £10,000 a week (£520k p.a) on a three year contract.
However the player goes down on the books as officially as £113k a year based (£2.5m divided by 22).
Basically you agree a promotion bonus for example £100k then you top it up with the difference between the agreed wage (£520k) and the book wage (113k).
So every year the promotion bonus increases to reflect the difference in the salary. Once promotion is secured the player would then go up to the originally agreed salary (10k).
This is heavily reliant on promotion being obtained but I think for a club like Ipswich who are deemed a 'big' club in the division we can attract players on the basis on the chances of promotion.
Just a idea |  | | |  |
| A workaround to the salary cap on 12:57 - Aug 11 with 6365 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
If it's contractual, then I think even a promotion bonus is covered in the cap. |  |
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| A workaround to the salary cap on 13:02 - Aug 11 with 6346 views | hadleighboyblue |
| A workaround to the salary cap on 12:57 - Aug 11 by Marshalls_Mullet |
If it's contractual, then I think even a promotion bonus is covered in the cap. |
I'm sure some clubs will find ways round the rules , in the way that the likes of Derby seem to manage | | | |
| A workaround to the salary cap on 13:05 - Aug 11 with 6328 views | SWGF |
| A workaround to the salary cap on 12:57 - Aug 11 by Marshalls_Mullet |
If it's contractual, then I think even a promotion bonus is covered in the cap. |
Bonuses for goals, clean sheets, etc are included in the salary cap, but competition bonuses (promotion, cup win, etc) are NOT.
*****************************************
From the EFL's site:
When calculating total salary spending, the ‘cap’ includes:
Basic Wages;
Taxes;
Bonuses;
Image rights;
Agents’ fees and;
Other fees and expenses paid directly or indirectly to all registered players.
Payments directly linked to a Club’s progression in cup competitions or promotion are excluded from the Cap, while any income generated from players going out on loan is deducted from the Club’s Salary Cap calculation. |  |
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| A workaround to the salary cap on 13:10 - Aug 11 with 6298 views | Herbivore |
| A workaround to the salary cap on 12:57 - Aug 11 by Marshalls_Mullet |
If it's contractual, then I think even a promotion bonus is covered in the cap. |
Nope, promotion bonuses don't count so this might be one way of us incentivising people to sign for us. |  |
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| A workaround to the salary cap on 13:36 - Aug 11 with 6223 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| A workaround to the salary cap on 13:10 - Aug 11 by Herbivore |
Nope, promotion bonuses don't count so this might be one way of us incentivising people to sign for us. |
Could be a useful incentive then.
If players back themselves and the manager.
I doubt they will want wages that are too heavily weighted towards a bonus though. | |
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| A workaround to the salary cap on 13:37 - Aug 11 with 6219 views | Keno |
| A workaround to the salary cap on 13:10 - Aug 11 by Herbivore |
Nope, promotion bonuses don't count so this might be one way of us incentivising people to sign for us. |
maybe we would need an 11th place bonus?
I think a promotion bonus is probably a little bit optimistic |  |
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| A workaround to the salary cap on 13:41 - Aug 11 with 6206 views | thatdamgood89 |
Another way around the cap may well be in salary escalators.
So, next year we currently have 1.5m (approx) coming off the books and becoming free in the salary cap.
You could agree with a 'key player' to a % increase in wages after 1 year.
That would, of course, require long term management and a strong statistical pedigree when reviewing your squad. Youngsters on the fringe of becoming 'senior' players particularly.
As long term you would hamstring yourself unless you are smart.
Also, another way which is something I'm still looking into is players possibly renegotiating their contracts
Now I'm not saying this will start happening either now or ever
However, one idea could be
If a senior player really, felt we needed a new signing, for example, to push for promotion. After all, players also want success, then, in theory, the club and player could agree to a mutual cancellation of his contract at 0 and the resign the player (insert player) on new reduced terms.
Within the new deal could be promotion bonus' and a wage increase of (insert % number)
Year 1 salary cap hit would then be much lower and would give the club an extra cap room to play with in the transfer market.
Does that make sense? Plucked figures but hopefully the meaning behind it is clear. [Post edited 11 Aug 2020 15:03]
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| Hey :) Please check out my Ipswich Town F.C podcast 'Talk Of The Town'
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPhPy_79sSvPSugh32vN8qg?view_as=subscriber
Available every Wednesday on;
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Buzzsrpout
Google Podcasts
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| A workaround to the salary cap on 13:49 - Aug 11 with 6174 views | itfcjoe |
| A workaround to the salary cap on 13:41 - Aug 11 by thatdamgood89 |
Another way around the cap may well be in salary escalators.
So, next year we currently have 1.5m (approx) coming off the books and becoming free in the salary cap.
You could agree with a 'key player' to a % increase in wages after 1 year.
That would, of course, require long term management and a strong statistical pedigree when reviewing your squad. Youngsters on the fringe of becoming 'senior' players particularly.
As long term you would hamstring yourself unless you are smart.
Also, another way which is something I'm still looking into is players possibly renegotiating their contracts
Now I'm not saying this will start happening either now or ever
However, one idea could be
If a senior player really, felt we needed a new signing, for example, to push for promotion. After all, players also want success, then, in theory, the club and player could agree to a mutual cancellation of his contract at 0 and the resign the player (insert player) on new reduced terms.
Within the new deal could be promotion bonus' and a wage increase of (insert % number)
Year 1 salary cap hit would then be much lower and would give the club an extra cap room to play with in the transfer market.
Does that make sense? Plucked figures but hopefully the meaning behind it is clear. [Post edited 11 Aug 2020 15:03]
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Players aren't going to give up money to help others out, none of them are married to multi millionaire super models with incredible net worth.....
Our biggest issue is that we are so far over the limits in place, that we are going to have to effectively let everyone's contracts expire going into next season in the hope that we go up, and that leaves us vulnrebale
Unless players can renegotiate extended contracts below the £113k per year limit, i.e. £2k per week, then there isn't much we can do.
There are so many holes in this, we can go out and spend £3-4m on loan fees/wages for top youngsters, have them not count against any cap and that is seen as more sustainable as spending the same money on permanent signings with contracts.
Promotion bonuses are fine, but ultimately players aren't going to back themselves if there is a better offer on the table elsewhere - it is going to be next to impossible to stop Champ clubs picking up players from this level as back ups. Both Holy and Norwood had Championship interest last summer, but came here instead......deals like that will struggle to happen because Championship clubs can pay them £4k a week to take a punt on them and it's chicken feed |  |
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| A workaround to the salary cap on 13:55 - Aug 11 with 6158 views | soupytwist |
| A workaround to the salary cap on 13:05 - Aug 11 by SWGF |
Bonuses for goals, clean sheets, etc are included in the salary cap, but competition bonuses (promotion, cup win, etc) are NOT.
*****************************************
From the EFL's site:
When calculating total salary spending, the ‘cap’ includes:
Basic Wages;
Taxes;
Bonuses;
Image rights;
Agents’ fees and;
Other fees and expenses paid directly or indirectly to all registered players.
Payments directly linked to a Club’s progression in cup competitions or promotion are excluded from the Cap, while any income generated from players going out on loan is deducted from the Club’s Salary Cap calculation. |
This made me wonder if there is any definition of eligible cup competitions for bonuses. Could we put a cup competition win bonus in the contracts and then enter the Suffolk Senior Cup with a half decent team, win that and pay everyone their cup competition win bonus? |  | | |
| A workaround to the salary cap on 13:58 - Aug 11 with 6133 views | itfcjoe |
| A workaround to the salary cap on 13:55 - Aug 11 by soupytwist |
This made me wonder if there is any definition of eligible cup competitions for bonuses. Could we put a cup competition win bonus in the contracts and then enter the Suffolk Senior Cup with a half decent team, win that and pay everyone their cup competition win bonus? |
That's an interesting take on it, you would be able to state what cup it is.
We'd prob get dumped out by Felixstowe in the 2nd round though | |
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| A workaround to the salary cap on 14:01 - Aug 11 with 6120 views | BrixtonBlue |
| A workaround to the salary cap on 13:36 - Aug 11 by Marshalls_Mullet |
Could be a useful incentive then.
If players back themselves and the manager.
I doubt they will want wages that are too heavily weighted towards a bonus though. |
We could have big bonuses for silly things like reaching the second round of the Leasing.com trophy, or whatever it's called these days. Much more realistic than promotion. |  |
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| A workaround to the salary cap on 14:02 - Aug 11 with 6110 views | thatdamgood89 |
| A workaround to the salary cap on 13:49 - Aug 11 by itfcjoe |
Players aren't going to give up money to help others out, none of them are married to multi millionaire super models with incredible net worth.....
Our biggest issue is that we are so far over the limits in place, that we are going to have to effectively let everyone's contracts expire going into next season in the hope that we go up, and that leaves us vulnrebale
Unless players can renegotiate extended contracts below the £113k per year limit, i.e. £2k per week, then there isn't much we can do.
There are so many holes in this, we can go out and spend £3-4m on loan fees/wages for top youngsters, have them not count against any cap and that is seen as more sustainable as spending the same money on permanent signings with contracts.
Promotion bonuses are fine, but ultimately players aren't going to back themselves if there is a better offer on the table elsewhere - it is going to be next to impossible to stop Champ clubs picking up players from this level as back ups. Both Holy and Norwood had Championship interest last summer, but came here instead......deals like that will struggle to happen because Championship clubs can pay them £4k a week to take a punt on them and it's chicken feed |
As I said it's a concept that I'm looking into mate.
I think it's unfair to say all players wouldn't do it. A senior pro towards the end of his career who has been smart with his cash and wants to win something -MAY
However, it is all buts and maybes and I am simply presenting possible workaround scenarios in a thread titled workaround. Nothing has been checked twice and is presented as fact or even this will happen ( Thumbs up )
Having as many players as we do out of contract next year is, for me, a really good thing. It's a chance to reset and look forward.
Life under a cap is going to be really hard year on year and you will probably see squads turnover at an alarming rate. Particularly at the top end of the division because a player could go and play anywhere in the world and earn more where they don't have a cap.
It will require teams to be a lot smarter, a lot more forward-thinking and a lot more analytical driven. Posh will thrive they have been doing this type of thing for years. | |
| Hey :) Please check out my Ipswich Town F.C podcast 'Talk Of The Town'
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPhPy_79sSvPSugh32vN8qg?view_as=subscriber
Available every Wednesday on;
YouTube
Spotify
Buzzsrpout
Google Podcasts
Itune Podcasts |
| |
| A workaround to the salary cap on 14:03 - Aug 11 with 6109 views | soupytwist |
| A workaround to the salary cap on 13:58 - Aug 11 by itfcjoe |
That's an interesting take on it, you would be able to state what cup it is.
We'd prob get dumped out by Felixstowe in the 2nd round though |
I'm sure we'd manage to find a way to mess it up somehow. Perhaps there is scope for some mutual back scratching between the larger L1 clubs with a 'cup' being awarded for one off reserve/U23 games between them.
We could send a team up to Sunderland and play for the 'In no way designed to get round the salary cap' cup. The losing team would then win the fixture where they send a team down to us and we play for the 'Look, just cos this looks like a complicated way to get around the salary cap, doesn't mean it is' cup. [Post edited 11 Aug 2020 14:15]
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| A workaround to the salary cap on 14:06 - Aug 11 with 6075 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| A workaround to the salary cap on 13:49 - Aug 11 by itfcjoe |
Players aren't going to give up money to help others out, none of them are married to multi millionaire super models with incredible net worth.....
Our biggest issue is that we are so far over the limits in place, that we are going to have to effectively let everyone's contracts expire going into next season in the hope that we go up, and that leaves us vulnrebale
Unless players can renegotiate extended contracts below the £113k per year limit, i.e. £2k per week, then there isn't much we can do.
There are so many holes in this, we can go out and spend £3-4m on loan fees/wages for top youngsters, have them not count against any cap and that is seen as more sustainable as spending the same money on permanent signings with contracts.
Promotion bonuses are fine, but ultimately players aren't going to back themselves if there is a better offer on the table elsewhere - it is going to be next to impossible to stop Champ clubs picking up players from this level as back ups. Both Holy and Norwood had Championship interest last summer, but came here instead......deals like that will struggle to happen because Championship clubs can pay them £4k a week to take a punt on them and it's chicken feed |
Jordan Spence fell quite close to the scenario in your first para... | |
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| A workaround to the salary cap on 14:09 - Aug 11 with 6059 views | thatdamgood89 |
| A workaround to the salary cap on 14:03 - Aug 11 by soupytwist |
I'm sure we'd manage to find a way to mess it up somehow. Perhaps there is scope for some mutual back scratching between the larger L1 clubs with a 'cup' being awarded for one off reserve/U23 games between them.
We could send a team up to Sunderland and play for the 'In no way designed to get round the salary cap' cup. The losing team would then win the fixture where they send a team down to us and we play for the 'Look, just cos this looks like a complicated way to get around the salary cap, doesn't mean it is' cup. [Post edited 11 Aug 2020 14:15]
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The EFL site does state cup bonuses' are exempt from the cap figure but which player would think Town after our recent history could do well.
Then of course if you see the club field a weakened side will that cause unrest because your bonus is at stake and you are either playing with kids or watching kids lose you money | |
| Hey :) Please check out my Ipswich Town F.C podcast 'Talk Of The Town'
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPhPy_79sSvPSugh32vN8qg?view_as=subscriber
Available every Wednesday on;
YouTube
Spotify
Buzzsrpout
Google Podcasts
Itune Podcasts |
| |
| A workaround to the salary cap on 14:09 - Aug 11 with 6057 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| A workaround to the salary cap on 13:49 - Aug 11 by itfcjoe |
Players aren't going to give up money to help others out, none of them are married to multi millionaire super models with incredible net worth.....
Our biggest issue is that we are so far over the limits in place, that we are going to have to effectively let everyone's contracts expire going into next season in the hope that we go up, and that leaves us vulnrebale
Unless players can renegotiate extended contracts below the £113k per year limit, i.e. £2k per week, then there isn't much we can do.
There are so many holes in this, we can go out and spend £3-4m on loan fees/wages for top youngsters, have them not count against any cap and that is seen as more sustainable as spending the same money on permanent signings with contracts.
Promotion bonuses are fine, but ultimately players aren't going to back themselves if there is a better offer on the table elsewhere - it is going to be next to impossible to stop Champ clubs picking up players from this level as back ups. Both Holy and Norwood had Championship interest last summer, but came here instead......deals like that will struggle to happen because Championship clubs can pay them £4k a week to take a punt on them and it's chicken feed |
To be fair, £4k per week is chicken feed in comparison to some of the wages in the Champ.
But the sad reality is that there is no money in the championship either. Its the f*cked up world of huge losses that is the stepping stone to the Premier League (where you might break even). | |
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| A workaround to the salary cap on 14:17 - Aug 11 with 5987 views | thatdamgood89 |
Relocation costs are in the cap...that may include the house. Not sure | |
| Hey :) Please check out my Ipswich Town F.C podcast 'Talk Of The Town'
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPhPy_79sSvPSugh32vN8qg?view_as=subscriber
Available every Wednesday on;
YouTube
Spotify
Buzzsrpout
Google Podcasts
Itune Podcasts |
| |
| A workaround to the salary cap on 14:58 - Aug 11 with 5883 views | itfcjoe |
| A workaround to the salary cap on 14:02 - Aug 11 by thatdamgood89 |
As I said it's a concept that I'm looking into mate.
I think it's unfair to say all players wouldn't do it. A senior pro towards the end of his career who has been smart with his cash and wants to win something -MAY
However, it is all buts and maybes and I am simply presenting possible workaround scenarios in a thread titled workaround. Nothing has been checked twice and is presented as fact or even this will happen ( Thumbs up )
Having as many players as we do out of contract next year is, for me, a really good thing. It's a chance to reset and look forward.
Life under a cap is going to be really hard year on year and you will probably see squads turnover at an alarming rate. Particularly at the top end of the division because a player could go and play anywhere in the world and earn more where they don't have a cap.
It will require teams to be a lot smarter, a lot more forward-thinking and a lot more analytical driven. Posh will thrive they have been doing this type of thing for years. |
Posh buy and sell players well, but what that does is allow you to increase your wage bill and attract better players - but now they won't be able to as the money they earn from sales can't go anywhere? | |
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| A workaround to the salary cap on 15:05 - Aug 11 with 5867 views | thatdamgood89 |
| A workaround to the salary cap on 14:58 - Aug 11 by itfcjoe |
Posh buy and sell players well, but what that does is allow you to increase your wage bill and attract better players - but now they won't be able to as the money they earn from sales can't go anywhere? |
They always look further down the pyramid though Joe. Players in League 2 are also capped and the further down you go the more you would expect wages to also go down.
Also, age is a factor in terms of u21 and giving them a chance. I haven't looked at their squad and I'd be interested in seeing how they tally up [Post edited 11 Aug 2020 15:06]
| |
| Hey :) Please check out my Ipswich Town F.C podcast 'Talk Of The Town'
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPhPy_79sSvPSugh32vN8qg?view_as=subscriber
Available every Wednesday on;
YouTube
Spotify
Buzzsrpout
Google Podcasts
Itune Podcasts |
| |
| A workaround to the salary cap on 15:13 - Aug 11 with 5839 views | itfcjoe |
| A workaround to the salary cap on 15:05 - Aug 11 by thatdamgood89 |
They always look further down the pyramid though Joe. Players in League 2 are also capped and the further down you go the more you would expect wages to also go down.
Also, age is a factor in terms of u21 and giving them a chance. I haven't looked at their squad and I'd be interested in seeing how they tally up [Post edited 11 Aug 2020 15:06]
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But they normally beat out Championship clubs for these players, and whilst they offer opportunities ahead of wages, the wage disparity between what they can offer and what Championship clubs can offer is going to be too much in many cases.
I see Championship and PL clubs hoovering up players and L1 and L2 just having to rely on loans/short term contracts - planning for the future just became much more difficult.
Whether you are a fan of the squad put in place or not, Lambert had tied down a number of players for at least 2 seasons at the start of this year - and now we are totally screwed by it, no matter how sensible the contract erms and planning has been.
The smart clubs may prosper, but I bet those willing to sell their souls to the big boys and become a basic feeder club will do so even more - teams in the North West will take 4 or 5 players from Liverpool or Man City at the expense of their own kids.
THis really is the thin edge of the wedge, getting out of this division this season is imperative | |
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| A workaround to the salary cap on 15:41 - Aug 11 with 5763 views | leftback |
Say a player we want to buy a player from championship who is on 10k a week with 2 years left on his contract and available for 500k,,what is stopping us getting the selling club to continue to pay the wages but we pay the exaggerated price of £1.5 mill to cover the wages | | | |
| A workaround to the salary cap on 16:19 - Aug 11 with 5679 views | Bluefish |
| A workaround to the salary cap on 13:10 - Aug 11 by Herbivore |
Nope, promotion bonuses don't count so this might be one way of us incentivising people to sign for us. |
Sign based on Shambert getting promotion, footballers are notoriously stupid but surely not that stupid |  |
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| A workaround to the salary cap on 16:21 - Aug 11 with 5673 views | Herbivore |
| A workaround to the salary cap on 16:19 - Aug 11 by Bluefish |
Sign based on Shambert getting promotion, footballers are notoriously stupid but surely not that stupid |
Fair point. | |
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| A workaround to the salary cap on 16:49 - Aug 11 with 5633 views | tractorboy1978 |
| A workaround to the salary cap on 14:09 - Aug 11 by Marshalls_Mullet |
To be fair, £4k per week is chicken feed in comparison to some of the wages in the Champ.
But the sad reality is that there is no money in the championship either. Its the f*cked up world of huge losses that is the stepping stone to the Premier League (where you might break even). |
Isn't there? I'm willing to bet that when push comes to shove a lot of clubs at that level will continue pushing themselves well beyond what is sustainable. | | | |
| A workaround to the salary cap on 17:05 - Aug 11 with 6478 views | tractorboy1978 |
| A workaround to the salary cap on 15:13 - Aug 11 by itfcjoe |
But they normally beat out Championship clubs for these players, and whilst they offer opportunities ahead of wages, the wage disparity between what they can offer and what Championship clubs can offer is going to be too much in many cases.
I see Championship and PL clubs hoovering up players and L1 and L2 just having to rely on loans/short term contracts - planning for the future just became much more difficult.
Whether you are a fan of the squad put in place or not, Lambert had tied down a number of players for at least 2 seasons at the start of this year - and now we are totally screwed by it, no matter how sensible the contract erms and planning has been.
The smart clubs may prosper, but I bet those willing to sell their souls to the big boys and become a basic feeder club will do so even more - teams in the North West will take 4 or 5 players from Liverpool or Man City at the expense of their own kids.
THis really is the thin edge of the wedge, getting out of this division this season is imperative |
And as sad as it is we may have to succumb to that if we don't get promoted very soon.
I can see PL/CH clubs using loan players on preferential terms as a makeweight in any transfer offers for L1 players - the cash element has become quite irrelevant as we can't use anymore on wages. | | | |
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