| Better from Starmer and Labour 10:06 - Apr 4 with 1760 views | Darth_Koont |
https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2021/apr/03/we-have-a-once-in-a-generation-
There are indicators of policies and priorities here at least. A few things missing clearly before we can call it a genuine and progressive vision:
– We don’t see poverty addressed beyond “equality of opportunity” which has always been a fairly neoliberal way of levelling up. Or appearing to. But I want to know how we are going to protect the vulnerable and ensure that millions of kids aren’t living in poverty rather than wait for a generational shift that might never come.
– PR and democratic reform are missing. Clearly Labour still see themselves as in with a chance via FPTP but I think they’re missing a lot of voter energy that could give them some much-needed momentum. Dodging that seems to be missing where UK politics is at the moment.
– Ditto no mention of a Green shift in our economy. And no explanation of how the economy will be restructured even to address the regional imbalances. Is that through major investment and intervention a la Biden? It doesn’t really say, but “how” is often the key to progressive policies as any political party would put a lot of this stuff on a general wish list.
But a step in the right direction and seems to be taking on the criticism/addressing the concerns about direction that have come from many different people. Next step is to be clearer about how and to be clearer about why certain areas are skated over. Oh and to stop punching the left who would agree with most of this as a rough outline. |  |
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| Better from Starmer and Labour on 12:32 - Apr 4 with 1447 views | GlasgowBlue |
Explain how he is "punching the left". |  |
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| Better from Starmer and Labour on 14:20 - Apr 4 with 1400 views | tractordownsouth |
You feeling alright DK?? The title suggests you've probably had a joint or two. Very unlike you! |  |
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| Better from Starmer and Labour on 14:35 - Apr 4 with 1383 views | Darth_Koont |
| Better from Starmer and Labour on 14:20 - Apr 4 by tractordownsouth |
You feeling alright DK?? The title suggests you've probably had a joint or two. Very unlike you! |
Ha! There’s a shift away from the Tory values of “family, nation and opportunity” from before (although opportunity still hanging around a bit too much in conversations of equality which is always a bit of a warning sign for me).
Still got a long way to go to get back to anything like the progressive platform of before and Starmer’s own leadership pledges but I’ll give credit for at least stemming the slide right.
To be honest, he needs to do something or he’s not going to be around much longer. It’s been a year to forget – although hopefully it’s a year he and his team learn from. | |
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| Better from Starmer and Labour on 14:37 - Apr 4 with 1378 views | J2BLUE |
Give us UBI |  |
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| Better from Starmer and Labour on 14:46 - Apr 4 with 1368 views | Kievthegreat |
PR is what I'm concerned about. If Labour commit wholeheartedly to PR, I will happily vote tactically and encourage others to do so. There is plenty of polling to support a change to PR, but it needs Labour to commit to it and that means trading winning 1/3 or 1/4 of elections with a majority, to being able to form a coalition more often, probably well over 50%.
If any labour activist wants to "#GTTO", they need to fix the rigged system that lets them in. The fact the system occasionally let's you win is not a good enough reason for keeping a broken system. |  | | |
| Better from Starmer and Labour on 14:50 - Apr 4 with 1348 views | SpruceMoose |
| Better from Starmer and Labour on 14:37 - Apr 4 by J2BLUE |
Give us UBI |
Dream on! You'll have to make do with a job like the rest of us J2! |  |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Better from Starmer and Labour on 14:51 - Apr 4 with 1343 views | J2BLUE |
| Better from Starmer and Labour on 14:50 - Apr 4 by SpruceMoose |
Dream on! You'll have to make do with a job like the rest of us J2! |
I'd still want a full time job with UBI. | |
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| Better from Starmer and Labour on 14:52 - Apr 4 with 1341 views | monytowbray |
| Better from Starmer and Labour on 14:37 - Apr 4 by J2BLUE |
Give us UBI |
I am so glad to see this.
You are slowly corrupting :) |  |
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| Better from Starmer and Labour on 15:02 - Apr 4 with 1331 views | Darth_Koont |
| Better from Starmer and Labour on 12:32 - Apr 4 by GlasgowBlue |
Explain how he is "punching the left". |
– Ignoring the progressive platform that he himself promised to maintain
– Not remotely standing up for unity like he said he would, taking a partisan line over antisemitism smears, not returning the whip for Corbyn and kicking the Labour Leaks into the long grass of the Forde inquiry
– Shutting down member and local CLP democracy, blocking debate and imposing candidates
– Publicly pitching Labour as more centre-right than even centre-left. Abstaining and voting through legislation that is against social justice and basically removing socialism from the debate. All of which is a massive kick in the teeth to volunteers, members and activists who have spent decades fighting against the very things Starmer waves through.
On this, many members and voters have voiced their displeasure or even resigned their membership in their many, many thousands and they’ve still been totally ignored. Which is hard to read as anything else than the attack on the left which has been the core value of the Labour right for decades. Certainly above even getting the Tories out. | |
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| Better from Starmer and Labour on 15:03 - Apr 4 with 1326 views | J2BLUE |
| Better from Starmer and Labour on 14:52 - Apr 4 by monytowbray |
I am so glad to see this.
You are slowly corrupting :) |
I've wanted UBI for ages, I just haven't been convinced it's workable. | |
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| Better from Starmer and Labour on 15:13 - Apr 4 with 1306 views | Darth_Koont |
| Better from Starmer and Labour on 14:46 - Apr 4 by Kievthegreat |
PR is what I'm concerned about. If Labour commit wholeheartedly to PR, I will happily vote tactically and encourage others to do so. There is plenty of polling to support a change to PR, but it needs Labour to commit to it and that means trading winning 1/3 or 1/4 of elections with a majority, to being able to form a coalition more often, probably well over 50%.
If any labour activist wants to "#GTTO", they need to fix the rigged system that lets them in. The fact the system occasionally let's you win is not a good enough reason for keeping a broken system. |
Agreed. I also don’t think that the traditional red vs blue via FPTP works well for anyone but the Tories.
Not just in numbers but also in message. A party that wants to challenge Tory dominance also ends up toeing the Establishment line in order to hit +40% of the popular vote and just looks like another bunch of empty suits. Labour as part of a progressive and PR alliance could instead concentrate on having a compelling and alternative vision and leave the centrism and soft Toryism to the LibDems. | |
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| Better from Starmer and Labour on 15:35 - Apr 4 with 1271 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Better from Starmer and Labour on 15:02 - Apr 4 by Darth_Koont |
– Ignoring the progressive platform that he himself promised to maintain
– Not remotely standing up for unity like he said he would, taking a partisan line over antisemitism smears, not returning the whip for Corbyn and kicking the Labour Leaks into the long grass of the Forde inquiry
– Shutting down member and local CLP democracy, blocking debate and imposing candidates
– Publicly pitching Labour as more centre-right than even centre-left. Abstaining and voting through legislation that is against social justice and basically removing socialism from the debate. All of which is a massive kick in the teeth to volunteers, members and activists who have spent decades fighting against the very things Starmer waves through.
On this, many members and voters have voiced their displeasure or even resigned their membership in their many, many thousands and they’ve still been totally ignored. Which is hard to read as anything else than the attack on the left which has been the core value of the Labour right for decades. Certainly above even getting the Tories out. |
“ taking a partisan line over antisemitism smears”.Christ.
What partisan line has he taken? | |
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| Better from Starmer and Labour on 15:45 - Apr 4 with 1244 views | Churchman |
| Better from Starmer and Labour on 14:46 - Apr 4 by Kievthegreat |
PR is what I'm concerned about. If Labour commit wholeheartedly to PR, I will happily vote tactically and encourage others to do so. There is plenty of polling to support a change to PR, but it needs Labour to commit to it and that means trading winning 1/3 or 1/4 of elections with a majority, to being able to form a coalition more often, probably well over 50%.
If any labour activist wants to "#GTTO", they need to fix the rigged system that lets them in. The fact the system occasionally let's you win is not a good enough reason for keeping a broken system. |
I’ve always been in favour of PR. I know as a system it has its faults, but at the very least it means everybody’s vote is meaningful. Where I live it isn’t and that applies to far too many constituencies. I’m all for electoral change. It’s time to ditch FPTP. |  | | |
| Better from Starmer and Labour on 15:52 - Apr 4 with 1237 views | Darth_Koont |
| Better from Starmer and Labour on 15:35 - Apr 4 by GlasgowBlue |
“ taking a partisan line over antisemitism smears”.Christ.
What partisan line has he taken? |
He’s stuck his fingers in his ears and said no-one can mention that antisemitism exists but that the claims have been greatly exaggerated for factional and political gain.
Harsh on you. That’s hundreds of man hours he’s denying. | |
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| Better from Starmer and Labour on 15:56 - Apr 4 with 1230 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Better from Starmer and Labour on 15:52 - Apr 4 by Darth_Koont |
He’s stuck his fingers in his ears and said no-one can mention that antisemitism exists but that the claims have been greatly exaggerated for factional and political gain.
Harsh on you. That’s hundreds of man hours he’s denying. |
Keep denying and defending. But don’t get upset when this is pointed out to you. | |
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| Better from Starmer and Labour on 15:57 - Apr 4 with 1228 views | Darth_Koont |
| Better from Starmer and Labour on 15:45 - Apr 4 by Churchman |
I’ve always been in favour of PR. I know as a system it has its faults, but at the very least it means everybody’s vote is meaningful. Where I live it isn’t and that applies to far too many constituencies. I’m all for electoral change. It’s time to ditch FPTP. |
Agreed. I think the long-term effect of half the country’s votes effectively not counting means that there’s never been a lot of faith in politicians or the political system.
Becomes a bit of a vicious circle as it seems governments have been able to focus on their base and its interests when they should be representing the “other half” just as much. | |
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| Better from Starmer and Labour on 16:01 - Apr 4 with 1216 views | Darth_Koont |
| Better from Starmer and Labour on 15:56 - Apr 4 by GlasgowBlue |
Keep denying and defending. But don’t get upset when this is pointed out to you. |
Cheers, I will. I have addressed the evidence continuously and am entirely comfortable with my take on the situation.
Happy Easter! | |
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| Better from Starmer and Labour on 16:26 - Apr 4 with 1155 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Better from Starmer and Labour on 16:01 - Apr 4 by Darth_Koont |
Cheers, I will. I have addressed the evidence continuously and am entirely comfortable with my take on the situation.
Happy Easter! |
Happy Easter. | |
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| Better from Starmer and Labour on 16:32 - Apr 4 with 1141 views | Darth_Koont |
| Better from Starmer and Labour on 16:26 - Apr 4 by GlasgowBlue |
Happy Easter. |
I’ll let an actual bona fide Jewish anti-racist respond to that.
[Post edited 4 Apr 2021 16:33]
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| Better from Starmer and Labour on 20:40 - Apr 4 with 976 views | Bugs |
| Better from Starmer and Labour on 16:26 - Apr 4 by GlasgowBlue |
Happy Easter. |
Yeah, Starmer and his minions have has suspended over 100 Jews from the party. But that's fine because they are the wrong type of Jew? |  | | |
| Better from Starmer and Labour on 22:01 - Apr 4 with 916 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Better from Starmer and Labour on 15:03 - Apr 4 by J2BLUE |
I've wanted UBI for ages, I just haven't been convinced it's workable. |
Indeed, it sounds unbelievable that it would work but isn't that in the premise that most people are too lazy to work if they didn't have to? Actually, I believe most people want to work and if it increases your standard living significantly, even more so.
Haven't trials of it generally shown it is workable?
It would be very interesting to see it on a particularly large somewhere. |  |
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| Better from Starmer and Labour on 22:09 - Apr 4 with 901 views | Darth_Koont |
| Better from Starmer and Labour on 20:40 - Apr 4 by Bugs |
Yeah, Starmer and his minions have has suspended over 100 Jews from the party. But that's fine because they are the wrong type of Jew? |
Apparently, the wrong type of Jew is a left-wing antiracist. | |
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| Better from Starmer and Labour on 22:31 - Apr 4 with 883 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Better from Starmer and Labour on 20:40 - Apr 4 by Bugs |
Yeah, Starmer and his minions have has suspended over 100 Jews from the party. But that's fine because they are the wrong type of Jew? |
100’s? According to the morning Star it’s 35 investigated and 11 suspended or expelled.
Mostly from JVL, who are pretty much a “Blacks for Trump” type grouping.
If the weather is sh1t I’ll have a dig around tomorrow and find out why those 100’s, sorry 11 people were suspended. And then we can see if you agree with their suspensions and are prepared to defend them. [Post edited 4 Apr 2021 22:39]
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| Better from Starmer and Labour on 22:49 - Apr 4 with 865 views | Meadowlark |
| Better from Starmer and Labour on 15:35 - Apr 4 by GlasgowBlue |
“ taking a partisan line over antisemitism smears”.Christ.
What partisan line has he taken? |
Ha! You walked right into that one DK!
The ambush was set and you were there for the taking.
Next question is "When did you stop beating your wife?" |  | | |
| Better from Starmer and Labour on 23:12 - Apr 4 with 841 views | Bugs |
| Better from Starmer and Labour on 22:31 - Apr 4 by GlasgowBlue |
100’s? According to the morning Star it’s 35 investigated and 11 suspended or expelled.
Mostly from JVL, who are pretty much a “Blacks for Trump” type grouping.
If the weather is sh1t I’ll have a dig around tomorrow and find out why those 100’s, sorry 11 people were suspended. And then we can see if you agree with their suspensions and are prepared to defend them. [Post edited 4 Apr 2021 22:39]
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I have had a quick look for the sources of over 100 Jewish members being suspended and I admit I can't find it. I don't think I was mistaken but can't say I wasn't.
As for your opinion of JVL, many of which have been life long antiracists and a group which also includes many highly regarded academics. Comparing them to "blacks for trump" is at best Ignorant and at worst anti-Semitic. [Post edited 5 Apr 2021 0:16]
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