| Did we really expect much last night? 06:42 - Dec 8 with 2671 views | wkj |
Whilst Paul Cook and his coaching team were no good at getting results for us, they were hardly tyrants, so, the players were never likely to get a mental boost by the regime being disbanded.
McGreal comes in and has a couple of training sessions at best, hardly any time to do anything mentally, or physically with the team.
Yet a few people were expecting a bounce... it was never going to happen last night.
Don't get me wrong - No one on the footballing payroll of ITFC should feel good about last night, and they should feel ashamed. The performance was half-arsed, and even petulant from some. These are things that the new gaffer is going to have to be ready to shock out of the players who have been complacent more than a few times this season.
That aside - was anyone really that surprised about how it went last night?
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| Did we really expect much last night? on 07:35 - Dec 8 with 1496 views | Herbivore |
I was hoping we might get a point but couldn't see us winning. I think we'd have lost the game under Cook given how he's had us playing recently so some of the bed wetting over the result is really rather over the top. It's not often a caretaker comes in and immediately picks up a result in a tough game with a side this low on structure and belief. |  |
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| Did we really expect much last night? on 07:40 - Dec 8 with 1481 views | BondiBlue |
In terms of the result? No. In terms of a bit of fight? Actually no - players barely know each other so it must be hard to summon the siege mentality required.
Good post - very predictable. Reminds me of mogga's stint after taking over from burley already. Players actually a bit lower because of the change. No new manager bounce if you're sad to see the old one go. |  |
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| Did we really expect much last night? on 07:42 - Dec 8 with 1469 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Did we really expect much last night? on 07:35 - Dec 8 by Herbivore |
I was hoping we might get a point but couldn't see us winning. I think we'd have lost the game under Cook given how he's had us playing recently so some of the bed wetting over the result is really rather over the top. It's not often a caretaker comes in and immediately picks up a result in a tough game with a side this low on structure and belief. |
I can understand why you might want to think that! |  |
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| Did we really expect much last night? on 07:42 - Dec 8 with 1470 views | Chrisd |
I was, if I’m being honest. You’d like to see some type of reaction and especially from what Morsy had said in the press after PC’s departure. They had let Cook and his coaching staff down and yet put in an even worse performance to confirm matters. The blame certainly doesn’t lie with JM and KD for last night, they didn’t have the time to have any impact. However, the lack of professional pride from our players with such a tepid performance was a real concern. If it wasn’t for Walton, that could’ve been a cricket score. I still strongly believe that there are still quite a few positions up for grabs in our starting XI and have done so for some time and I don’t think we have the answers or the players in our squad to improve those areas. Make no mistake, our club is now in a huge hole and Ashton is going to need an inspired managerial appointment. Incredibly, over the space of a month or so all the enthusiasm and excitement after the Wycombe display has been sapped out of us and we now look a very mediocre L1 side on a downward trend. | |
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| Did we really expect much last night? on 07:45 - Dec 8 with 1455 views | Herbivore |
| Did we really expect much last night? on 07:42 - Dec 8 by BanksterDebtSlave |
I can understand why you might want to think that! |
I don't want to think it, I do think it. Have you seen us play lately? | |
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| Did we really expect much last night? on 07:51 - Dec 8 with 1439 views | GavTWTD |
I fear Saturday is also predictable, and this may continue until a new manager is in place. I hope our next manager is an exceptional candidate to galvanize the support. I don't envy MA and his team on this one. Would love to know his short list. |  |
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| Did we really expect much last night? on 07:53 - Dec 8 with 1414 views | wkj |
| Did we really expect much last night? on 07:51 - Dec 8 by GavTWTD |
I fear Saturday is also predictable, and this may continue until a new manager is in place. I hope our next manager is an exceptional candidate to galvanize the support. I don't envy MA and his team on this one. Would love to know his short list. |
I agree. Though it has to be said I think the idea of getting a head coach rather than a manager is a bad idea right now. MA needs to make sure the new manager can bark as well as a bolster, and has a clear role as manager for those players. | |
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| Did we really expect much last night? on 07:54 - Dec 8 with 1409 views | OriginalMarkyP |
it was totally expected.
I think it will get worse before it gets better.
Cook has needed to go for quite a while and we do feel like a club without a heart or sense of identity.
The players are talented, but they somehow don't feel like ours yet.
I think now Ashton pulled the trigger the spotlight falls on him and he MUST deliver. If he doesn't get this 100% right he's next in the firing line. |  |
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| Did we really expect much last night? on 08:06 - Dec 8 with 1372 views | wkj |
| Did we really expect much last night? on 07:54 - Dec 8 by OriginalMarkyP |
it was totally expected.
I think it will get worse before it gets better.
Cook has needed to go for quite a while and we do feel like a club without a heart or sense of identity.
The players are talented, but they somehow don't feel like ours yet.
I think now Ashton pulled the trigger the spotlight falls on him and he MUST deliver. If he doesn't get this 100% right he's next in the firing line. |
I think people need to take a long look at what happened in the summer. It was exciting, it felt like we were signing people for fun, and we were the best in the league. Well, after 19 signings we ended up no richer in defense and bloated in the attack.
Was this Paul Cook? Was this Ashton? Little form column A, little from column B?
Either way, Paul Cook's pedigree in management was never going to be replicable here without a strong defense. It is defense where we have always been let down, and I bet you a lot of those attacking players are now feeling demotivated by the frequency that their hard work has been undone. | |
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| Did we really expect much last night? on 08:09 - Dec 8 with 1362 views | portmanking |
| Did we really expect much last night? on 08:06 - Dec 8 by wkj |
I think people need to take a long look at what happened in the summer. It was exciting, it felt like we were signing people for fun, and we were the best in the league. Well, after 19 signings we ended up no richer in defense and bloated in the attack.
Was this Paul Cook? Was this Ashton? Little form column A, little from column B?
Either way, Paul Cook's pedigree in management was never going to be replicable here without a strong defense. It is defense where we have always been let down, and I bet you a lot of those attacking players are now feeling demotivated by the frequency that their hard work has been undone. |
As I've just said to you in a separate thread, how many of those 19 signings now look a perfect fit for Paul Cook's system in the cold light of day? Very few. Which means the responsibility may lie more heavily on our CEO than some would like to believe. | | | |
| Did we really expect much last night? on 08:11 - Dec 8 with 1345 views | wkj |
| Did we really expect much last night? on 08:09 - Dec 8 by portmanking |
As I've just said to you in a separate thread, how many of those 19 signings now look a perfect fit for Paul Cook's system in the cold light of day? Very few. Which means the responsibility may lie more heavily on our CEO than some would like to believe. |
I don't doubt the chances of your assessment being correct, maybe the CEO was more to blame than Cook in this regard. This is why I'm not keen for a head coach, it has to be a manager who has some clout in those recruitment discussion. | |
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| Did we really expect much last night? on 08:15 - Dec 8 with 1330 views | portmanking |
| Did we really expect much last night? on 08:11 - Dec 8 by wkj |
I don't doubt the chances of your assessment being correct, maybe the CEO was more to blame than Cook in this regard. This is why I'm not keen for a head coach, it has to be a manager who has some clout in those recruitment discussion. |
I refuse to believe that Cook was happy with the likes of Donacien and Clements as full backs in his system. Inside he would have been spitting feathers. His formation relies on full backs that can get up and down and supply the forward line. Some weeks, the team was structured so far from a Paul Cook side that it was no surprise to see him grow increasingly frustrated and short with the press.
The US investment needed a careful strategy of bringing in players that saw us as a step up that would view competing at the top of League 1 as the next challenge in their careers - not players who saw it as beneath them (but given monstrous pay checks to soften the blow). | | | |
| Did we really expect much last night? on 08:15 - Dec 8 with 1329 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Did we really expect much last night? on 07:45 - Dec 8 by Herbivore |
I don't want to think it, I do think it. Have you seen us play lately? |
Plenty and last night was the worst. | |
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| Did we really expect much last night? on 08:16 - Dec 8 with 1325 views | OriginalMarkyP |
it was totally expected.
I think it will get worse before it gets better.
Cook has needed to go for quite a while and we do feel like a club without a heart or sense of identity.
The players are talented, but they somehow don't feel like ours yet.
I think now Ashton pulled the trigger the spotlight falls on him and he MUST deliver. If he doesn't get this 100% right he's next in the firing line. | |
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| Did we really expect much last night? on 08:16 - Dec 8 with 1322 views | Herbivore |
| Did we really expect much last night? on 08:15 - Dec 8 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Plenty and last night was the worst. |
About on par with Rotherham for me. It Crewe had Washington and Stockley, or even just one of them, that game wouldn't have looked too different to last night either. | |
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| Did we really expect much last night? on 08:17 - Dec 8 with 1316 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Did we really expect much last night? on 07:51 - Dec 8 by GavTWTD |
I fear Saturday is also predictable, and this may continue until a new manager is in place. I hope our next manager is an exceptional candidate to galvanize the support. I don't envy MA and his team on this one. Would love to know his short list. |
There is only ever one person on the shortlist of the likes of Ashton!! | |
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| Did we really expect much last night? on 08:20 - Dec 8 with 1306 views | Herbivore |
| Did we really expect much last night? on 08:09 - Dec 8 by portmanking |
As I've just said to you in a separate thread, how many of those 19 signings now look a perfect fit for Paul Cook's system in the cold light of day? Very few. Which means the responsibility may lie more heavily on our CEO than some would like to believe. |
Our midfield two is his midfield two from Wigan, ffs. And they've been largely hopeless. Chaplin has played under him, Walton has played under him, we have a load of number 10/wide options which Cook likes to have. He liked KVY as his kind of full back then binned him off after a couple of poor decisions. Penney and Coulson are both attacking full backs, they're just either not very good or made of biscuit. | |
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| Did we really expect much last night? on 08:26 - Dec 8 with 1279 views | portmanking |
| Did we really expect much last night? on 08:20 - Dec 8 by Herbivore |
Our midfield two is his midfield two from Wigan, ffs. And they've been largely hopeless. Chaplin has played under him, Walton has played under him, we have a load of number 10/wide options which Cook likes to have. He liked KVY as his kind of full back then binned him off after a couple of poor decisions. Penney and Coulson are both attacking full backs, they're just either not very good or made of biscuit. |
Yes, Walton, Chaplin, Evans and Morsy all played for Cook, so that's 4 out of 19 that were 'his' foot soldiers.
KVY wasn't a new signing. Penney was tossed aside too soon for him to be a Cook signing for me. Coulson may well have been his call but injury prone. The likes of Fraser, Celina and Burns just didn't fit his front 3 whatsoever. Ashton spoke of knowing Burns since his early Bristol days so clearly had a big hand in that. I also expect Ashton knows Celina's agent very well and as for Fraser, he's certainly has nowhere near the mobility Cook has had in his front three in previous clubs. | | | |
| Did we really expect much last night? on 08:28 - Dec 8 with 1273 views | mrshallisfit |
| Did we really expect much last night? on 08:06 - Dec 8 by wkj |
I think people need to take a long look at what happened in the summer. It was exciting, it felt like we were signing people for fun, and we were the best in the league. Well, after 19 signings we ended up no richer in defense and bloated in the attack.
Was this Paul Cook? Was this Ashton? Little form column A, little from column B?
Either way, Paul Cook's pedigree in management was never going to be replicable here without a strong defense. It is defense where we have always been let down, and I bet you a lot of those attacking players are now feeling demotivated by the frequency that their hard work has been undone. |
This is a very perceptive summary Sir. You can only surmise that Cook was a double-act and without Richardson he didnt have it. Bit like Lambert? | | | |
| Did we really expect much last night? on 08:29 - Dec 8 with 1265 views | wkj |
| Did we really expect much last night? on 08:20 - Dec 8 by Herbivore |
Our midfield two is his midfield two from Wigan, ffs. And they've been largely hopeless. Chaplin has played under him, Walton has played under him, we have a load of number 10/wide options which Cook likes to have. He liked KVY as his kind of full back then binned him off after a couple of poor decisions. Penney and Coulson are both attacking full backs, they're just either not very good or made of biscuit. |
Biscuit that has well and truly been saturated by tea. | |
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| Did we really expect much last night? on 08:36 - Dec 8 with 1242 views | Herbivore |
| Did we really expect much last night? on 08:26 - Dec 8 by portmanking |
Yes, Walton, Chaplin, Evans and Morsy all played for Cook, so that's 4 out of 19 that were 'his' foot soldiers.
KVY wasn't a new signing. Penney was tossed aside too soon for him to be a Cook signing for me. Coulson may well have been his call but injury prone. The likes of Fraser, Celina and Burns just didn't fit his front 3 whatsoever. Ashton spoke of knowing Burns since his early Bristol days so clearly had a big hand in that. I also expect Ashton knows Celina's agent very well and as for Fraser, he's certainly has nowhere near the mobility Cook has had in his front three in previous clubs. |
In what way don't Celina and Burns fit? Do you honestly think Cook was against signing them? So many fooking excuses for him. The squad is loaded with quality for this level, several players in the spine of it are players he's managed before. He should have done much, much better with the resources at his disposal. | |
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| Did we really expect much last night? on 08:41 - Dec 8 with 1218 views | wkj |
| Did we really expect much last night? on 08:28 - Dec 8 by mrshallisfit |
This is a very perceptive summary Sir. You can only surmise that Cook was a double-act and without Richardson he didnt have it. Bit like Lambert? |
Quite possibly, though I don't think Cook was as reliant on Richardson as Lambert was on Culverhouse. I maintain that Cook will go on to be successful, and may well end up established in the Championship before we are - but I do think his recruitment strategy let him down (or Ashton's recruitment strategy as is currently being debated.)
If Cook gets in to a team that has some established players, he'll be just fine.
We, on the other hand, are starting to become far to comfortable in this league - which is a shame as the same thing happened when we were relegated from the Premier League. Whatever happens, we need a decisive game-winner at the helm who doesn't base his (or her) recruitment on loyalty. | |
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| Did we really expect much last night? on 08:43 - Dec 8 with 1199 views | portmanking |
| Did we really expect much last night? on 08:36 - Dec 8 by Herbivore |
In what way don't Celina and Burns fit? Do you honestly think Cook was against signing them? So many fooking excuses for him. The squad is loaded with quality for this level, several players in the spine of it are players he's managed before. He should have done much, much better with the resources at his disposal. |
As I've said to you in a separate thread... Burns is touchline hugging winger. Doesn't remotely fit in Cook's 4-2-3-1 which relies on inside forwards in the '3', with the full backs overlapping and providing the width. Celina was never going to work as Cook's '10' because he lacks the defensive qualities required to be a goal creator/scorer and man-marker of the opposition's deep-lying playmaker. Matt Crooks was clearly Cook's main target for that role but Ashton wasn't prepared to spend what was required to bring him here. | | | |
| Did we really expect much last night? on 08:48 - Dec 8 with 1171 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Did we really expect much last night? on 07:35 - Dec 8 by Herbivore |
I was hoping we might get a point but couldn't see us winning. I think we'd have lost the game under Cook given how he's had us playing recently so some of the bed wetting over the result is really rather over the top. It's not often a caretaker comes in and immediately picks up a result in a tough game with a side this low on structure and belief. |
haha, everyone complained we never got a new manager bounce under Cook... but McGreal gets a free pass because he has the word "caretaker"!
I'm not blaming McGreal, just laughing at the sheer hypocrisy of some on here. You wanted Cook out, you got your wish, and the team puts in its worst performance of the season. Brilliant. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Did we really expect much last night? on 08:50 - Dec 8 with 1159 views | BseaBlue |
| Did we really expect much last night? on 08:48 - Dec 8 by The_Flashing_Smile |
haha, everyone complained we never got a new manager bounce under Cook... but McGreal gets a free pass because he has the word "caretaker"!
I'm not blaming McGreal, just laughing at the sheer hypocrisy of some on here. You wanted Cook out, you got your wish, and the team puts in its worst performance of the season. Brilliant. |
Do you honestly believe that would have been much different if Cook was in charge last night? If anything, there were clear comparisons with some of our other terrible performances this season. |  | | |
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