| It's academic now but.... 10:39 - Mar 21 with 2971 views | heavyweight |
It's a shame that Mckenna and team did not get to work with Downes, Bishop and Dozzell, even Folami & Drinan.
I always prefer to see players come through the ranks and I hope next season sees the introduction of Baggott, but there does not to seem to be too many others that are close. Dobra and El Miz maybe ? |  | | |  |
| It's academic now but.... on 10:42 - Mar 21 with 2417 views | Darth_Koont |
I thought Morris looked good when he first broke through – nice combination of skill, pace and an eye for goal.
Seems to have gone backwards with injuries but maybe still the sort of player (along with Simpson) who we can be developing alongside 2 or 3 senior, more experienced strikers. |  |
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| It's academic now but.... on 10:50 - Mar 21 with 2376 views | itfcsuth |
I'm not convinced.
Excluding Downes, who I think is a really good footballer, I am not sure any of the others make a matchday 18 these days.
I watched Dozzell the other day against Nott Forest, he was very poor, looked ponderous and slow around the pitch. Look quite poor really. |  | | |
| It's academic now but.... on 10:56 - Mar 21 with 2352 views | hype313 |
| It's academic now but.... on 10:50 - Mar 21 by itfcsuth |
I'm not convinced.
Excluding Downes, who I think is a really good footballer, I am not sure any of the others make a matchday 18 these days.
I watched Dozzell the other day against Nott Forest, he was very poor, looked ponderous and slow around the pitch. Look quite poor really. |
Agreed, Downes wanted to leave for a fresh start, regardless of who came in.
Dobra can't get into the Col U matchday squad, so you would imagine he would be struggling here and McKenna has seen lots of El Miz and for one reason or another has decided to not throw him in.
Dozzell would have been an interesting project with McKenna, but I just feel this league is all wrong for him to excel and needed the step up. Haven't really tracked his progress at QPR but looks like he's in and out, clearly a longer term investment.
Think Bishop has reached his ceiling and not sure even McKenna could wave his magic wans to get him back to his days as a breakthrough player. |  |
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| It's academic now but.... on 11:31 - Mar 21 with 2251 views | Pablo_Counago |
| It's academic now but.... on 10:56 - Mar 21 by hype313 |
Agreed, Downes wanted to leave for a fresh start, regardless of who came in.
Dobra can't get into the Col U matchday squad, so you would imagine he would be struggling here and McKenna has seen lots of El Miz and for one reason or another has decided to not throw him in.
Dozzell would have been an interesting project with McKenna, but I just feel this league is all wrong for him to excel and needed the step up. Haven't really tracked his progress at QPR but looks like he's in and out, clearly a longer term investment.
Think Bishop has reached his ceiling and not sure even McKenna could wave his magic wans to get him back to his days as a breakthrough player. |
I remember a couple months back I think someone posted a thread from the QPR forum talking about Dozzell
They seem up and down on him and a fair few thought he was showing promise but needed some time. Not all hope is lost on him and I think he can still come good.
EDIT: Or rather, I hope he can still come good. Who doesn't wanna see one of our academy players succeed? [Post edited 21 Mar 2022 11:32]
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| It's academic now but.... on 11:42 - Mar 21 with 2210 views | Chrisd |
I'm hoping we'll see Baggott this season for a few games, he's got the type of game that KM is looking for in his CBs. I'm quite intrigued about young Humphreys too, he looks a very decent prospect in that midfield. CM has been a problem area all season if Morsy and Evans aren't available through injury or suspension. | |
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| It's academic now but.... on 11:47 - Mar 21 with 2193 views | Radlett_blue |
| It's academic now but.... on 10:42 - Mar 21 by Darth_Koont |
I thought Morris looked good when he first broke through – nice combination of skill, pace and an eye for goal.
Seems to have gone backwards with injuries but maybe still the sort of player (along with Simpson) who we can be developing alongside 2 or 3 senior, more experienced strikers. |
Ben Morris will be 23 in the summer. He's also only 5'9" so is unlikely to play as a lone striker in League One. Unless he's ripping up the Swedish 2nd Division, it's hard to see him having a future at Town. |  |
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| It's academic now but.... on 12:08 - Mar 21 with 2156 views | franz_tyson |
| It's academic now but.... on 11:42 - Mar 21 by Chrisd |
I'm hoping we'll see Baggott this season for a few games, he's got the type of game that KM is looking for in his CBs. I'm quite intrigued about young Humphreys too, he looks a very decent prospect in that midfield. CM has been a problem area all season if Morsy and Evans aren't available through injury or suspension. |
Well I hope we don’t give cheap starting places away in the team just to blood a youngster. I’d rather we play our strongest team with an eye to next season. If Baggott isn’t likely to feature next season, I wouldn’t put him above Burgess. Burgess has waited in the wings for his chance. And Ndaba has done the successful loan stint bit so he should be ahead of Baggott in the pecking order.
Agreed about CM being a problem. A lot of interest in Humphreys - is he the type and at a level where he could fill in for a few games in the absence of Morsy/ Evans? It’s a tough area of the pitch to move from the 23’s to first team level. Think I’d prefer we go for an experienced, tough L1 player in that area. | | | |
| It's academic now but.... on 12:13 - Mar 21 with 2143 views | itfcsuth |
| It's academic now but.... on 10:56 - Mar 21 by hype313 |
Agreed, Downes wanted to leave for a fresh start, regardless of who came in.
Dobra can't get into the Col U matchday squad, so you would imagine he would be struggling here and McKenna has seen lots of El Miz and for one reason or another has decided to not throw him in.
Dozzell would have been an interesting project with McKenna, but I just feel this league is all wrong for him to excel and needed the step up. Haven't really tracked his progress at QPR but looks like he's in and out, clearly a longer term investment.
Think Bishop has reached his ceiling and not sure even McKenna could wave his magic wans to get him back to his days as a breakthrough player. |
If a player doesn't want to be here like Downes, and they made that so clear, I have no issue with them moving on as long as the deal is right for everybody, and it seems like the Downes deal was.
Surprised by Dobra season, but the boy is still just 20, he has time on his side and we have seen flashes a quality from him.
I'm not particularly a fan of the way Dozzell plays the game, good passing ability, but always a bit slow and lethargic for me - he wouldn't suit a KM style of play, he doesn't have that energy.
El Mizouni is the one I expect KM to get hold of and work with. Everybody talks about his brilliant attitude to learn. He's all energy, good quality and just 21 years old I think will have a really good future with Town.
Anticipate we will see more of El Mizouni next year than this one though. | | | |
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| It's academic now but.... on 12:18 - Mar 21 with 2108 views | Chrisd |
| It's academic now but.... on 12:08 - Mar 21 by franz_tyson |
Well I hope we don’t give cheap starting places away in the team just to blood a youngster. I’d rather we play our strongest team with an eye to next season. If Baggott isn’t likely to feature next season, I wouldn’t put him above Burgess. Burgess has waited in the wings for his chance. And Ndaba has done the successful loan stint bit so he should be ahead of Baggott in the pecking order.
Agreed about CM being a problem. A lot of interest in Humphreys - is he the type and at a level where he could fill in for a few games in the absence of Morsy/ Evans? It’s a tough area of the pitch to move from the 23’s to first team level. Think I’d prefer we go for an experienced, tough L1 player in that area. |
It's not cheap places in my view, it's about giving them a taste of what is to come. Give him a couple of games especially if we are definitely out of the running for the play offs. The management don't know how a player is going to react until they are put in that situation. Why not play a 3 of Burgess, Woolfenden and Baggott? Donacien has done enough to show he's here for the long term, but it's about developing players too. Ndaba is on loan at Salford, I'm talking about the last couple of games 'this' season, not next season.
Regarding Humpherys if he'd good enough, he's old enough that's how I've always looked at it. | |
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| It's academic now but.... on 12:20 - Mar 21 with 2106 views | Churchman |
| It's academic now but.... on 10:56 - Mar 21 by hype313 |
Agreed, Downes wanted to leave for a fresh start, regardless of who came in.
Dobra can't get into the Col U matchday squad, so you would imagine he would be struggling here and McKenna has seen lots of El Miz and for one reason or another has decided to not throw him in.
Dozzell would have been an interesting project with McKenna, but I just feel this league is all wrong for him to excel and needed the step up. Haven't really tracked his progress at QPR but looks like he's in and out, clearly a longer term investment.
Think Bishop has reached his ceiling and not sure even McKenna could wave his magic wans to get him back to his days as a breakthrough player. |
I agree with this. I would add that it was Dozzell that triggered his release clause and from his career perspective and he was right to do so. I hope his career blossoms at QPR.
Bishop’s injuries have curtailed his career sadly. I don’t know how he’s done at Lincoln, but again it was the right time to move on, despite me this time last year preferring to retain him.
As for the younger players coming through, I hope going forwards with better facilities and I hope more energy going into the Academy we can start producing more good players (see Dyer’s interview) than we’ve managed since the days of Wickham and Rhodes. |  | | |
| It's academic now but.... on 12:32 - Mar 21 with 2053 views | Wickets |
| It's academic now but.... on 11:42 - Mar 21 by Chrisd |
I'm hoping we'll see Baggott this season for a few games, he's got the type of game that KM is looking for in his CBs. I'm quite intrigued about young Humphreys too, he looks a very decent prospect in that midfield. CM has been a problem area all season if Morsy and Evans aren't available through injury or suspension. |
Yes i agree regards CM . If we are to sign one player in the next window i hope it can be a really good partner for Morsy . I think Humphreys would/could give us as least as much as Carroll does if he was a regular starter . |  | | |
| It's academic now but.... on 12:32 - Mar 21 with 2051 views | Radlett_blue |
| It's academic now but.... on 12:18 - Mar 21 by Chrisd |
It's not cheap places in my view, it's about giving them a taste of what is to come. Give him a couple of games especially if we are definitely out of the running for the play offs. The management don't know how a player is going to react until they are put in that situation. Why not play a 3 of Burgess, Woolfenden and Baggott? Donacien has done enough to show he's here for the long term, but it's about developing players too. Ndaba is on loan at Salford, I'm talking about the last couple of games 'this' season, not next season.
Regarding Humpherys if he'd good enough, he's old enough that's how I've always looked at it. |
Once the play-offs are out of reach, it would make sense for McKenna to give some of the young, fringe players some game time to see if they should be part of the squad for next season. I agree that you can usually tell from a fairly early age if a player is good enough. I would certainly give Simpson a start or two, given how deficient we are in the striker category. | |
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| It's academic now but.... on 12:39 - Mar 21 with 2005 views | Darth_Koont |
| It's academic now but.... on 11:47 - Mar 21 by Radlett_blue |
Ben Morris will be 23 in the summer. He's also only 5'9" so is unlikely to play as a lone striker in League One. Unless he's ripping up the Swedish 2nd Division, it's hard to see him having a future at Town. |
Agree there. But Jackson is the same and he’s probably been the more overall effective of the strikers in recent months.
Ideally, we’d still have someone through the middle who can be a lynchpin/focal point for the attack and battle it out with centre halves. | |
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| It's academic now but.... on 13:09 - Mar 21 with 1912 views | Radlett_blue |
| It's academic now but.... on 12:39 - Mar 21 by Darth_Koont |
Agree there. But Jackson is the same and he’s probably been the more overall effective of the strikers in recent months.
Ideally, we’d still have someone through the middle who can be a lynchpin/focal point for the attack and battle it out with centre halves. |
Jackson is 2" taller & physically strong & while not a lone striker, he has at least proven he can score goals in the 3rd & 4th division. Morris is unproven & for various reasons, has played next to no senior football. | |
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| It's academic now but.... on 13:46 - Mar 21 with 1824 views | Darth_Koont |
| It's academic now but.... on 13:09 - Mar 21 by Radlett_blue |
Jackson is 2" taller & physically strong & while not a lone striker, he has at least proven he can score goals in the 3rd & 4th division. Morris is unproven & for various reasons, has played next to no senior football. |
Of course, but as a development project then he could be good. Depends how much they rate him, pre- and post-injury.
It is the downside of our new ambition that we have senior players for every position plus reserves. But hopefully McKenna can identify a few players like Humphreys, Baggott, Simpson and others that we can be bringing through as well. | |
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| It's academic now but.... on 14:23 - Mar 21 with 1763 views | gordon |
For what it's worth, wouldn't be surprised to see Folami and Drinan playing at reasonably decent standard in a few years (eg championship level or so).
Cameron Humphreys was playing on the left in a few of the youth cup matches last year, would be great to see him play the last few games of the season at left-wing back, and Elkan Baggott get a few games at centre-half.
Think that next season McKenna won't make the mistake that Cook/Ashton made at the start of the season in being overstocked in lots of positions, and there might be more chances for the likes of Baggott, Humphreys, Simpson, Dobra and Ndaba, with the likes of Norwood, Pigott and Carroll likely moving on. |  | | |
| It's academic now but.... on 14:46 - Mar 21 with 1716 views | abracaDOBRA_ |
| It's academic now but.... on 10:50 - Mar 21 by itfcsuth |
I'm not convinced.
Excluding Downes, who I think is a really good footballer, I am not sure any of the others make a matchday 18 these days.
I watched Dozzell the other day against Nott Forest, he was very poor, looked ponderous and slow around the pitch. Look quite poor really. |
Seen Downes is linked with a 60 mil move to Leeds... |  | | |
| It's academic now but.... on 14:50 - Mar 21 with 1699 views | Radlett_blue |
| It's academic now but.... on 14:23 - Mar 21 by gordon |
For what it's worth, wouldn't be surprised to see Folami and Drinan playing at reasonably decent standard in a few years (eg championship level or so).
Cameron Humphreys was playing on the left in a few of the youth cup matches last year, would be great to see him play the last few games of the season at left-wing back, and Elkan Baggott get a few games at centre-half.
Think that next season McKenna won't make the mistake that Cook/Ashton made at the start of the season in being overstocked in lots of positions, and there might be more chances for the likes of Baggott, Humphreys, Simpson, Dobra and Ndaba, with the likes of Norwood, Pigott and Carroll likely moving on. |
McKenna said he preferred working with a smaller squad & he certainly did some pruning in January. The changes in the summer will be fascinating as Town now seem to have a solid base, but are falling short in terms of creating & taking chances. If he is as good as his word, some of the younger players will be used as back-up next season & some of them should get a chance before the end of the season. | |
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| It's academic now but.... on 14:56 - Mar 21 with 1679 views | jayessess |
I think Dozzell and Morsy would've made an excellent, well-balanced pairing. Dozz played 40 games last season behind an utterly useless forward line and you see some of the runs being made now and can't help but think he'd have thrived.
With hindsight we did pretty well with that generation of academy players. Dozzell, Downes, Woolfenden, all born 1998-99, all going to have good pro careers, nearly 300 games collectively for the club, already generated £2m+ in fees with much more likely to come. Chuck in Ndaba, who'll almost certainly have a league career, Folami, just called up for Australia, Nydam, who might have been the best of the lot. That's good work for one year group at a lower league academy.
As for the current lot:
El Miz - Does he count? He's already a squad player. I suppose we might move him up the pecking order a bit.
Baggott - probably time for a loan in the EFL for him.
Ndaba - Done everything he can at Salford. 5th centre back for us or League One loan? We're approaching the point where we have to either use him or let him have a career somewhere else I guess.
Dobra - His contract runs to 2023, so I guess we'll have to try again with him this Summer. But he's a looooooooong way away from the first team.
Simpson - if we get him to extend that contract in the end, then you'd imagine he's getting a L1 loan? Or maybe first team squad? Swindon fans seem to think he's desperate to go back there, but that would make zero sense for him career wise.
Humphreys - Seems to be the pick of the U23s at the minute. I was wondering if there's any prospect of him being an option at LWB next season? I know he's a CM now, but there's a lot of traffic in front of him.
Who else? Tommy Hughes is turning 22 in October, presumably it's time to decide if there's still a player in there or to cut him loose? Zanda Siziba?
I guess some of these will need a good Papa John's game to force themselves into contention. |  |
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| It's academic now but.... on 14:57 - Mar 21 with 1678 views | itfcjoe |
| It's academic now but.... on 14:46 - Mar 21 by abracaDOBRA_ |
Seen Downes is linked with a 60 mil move to Leeds... |
I think you may have got the wrong end of the stick of that story.... |  |
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| It's academic now but.... on 15:15 - Mar 21 with 1615 views | wkj |
Doz and Bishop both had amazing potential early in their careers, but I feel both had significant potential robbed of them after significant injuries. When they came back into the squad it felt like most still expected them to reach the high potential both had shown.
Neither are bad players, but even Doz who moved up to the championship, are struggling to reach a consistently high standard. Consistency is something we need to most right now, so I don't think McKenna would have been able to do much more with the players than their individual ability and potential would have allowed.
I hope they both come good, but I doubt either will find their place at an elite level such as what once seemed their destiny. |  |
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| It's academic now but.... on 15:21 - Mar 21 with 1584 views | jayessess |
| It's academic now but.... on 15:15 - Mar 21 by wkj |
Doz and Bishop both had amazing potential early in their careers, but I feel both had significant potential robbed of them after significant injuries. When they came back into the squad it felt like most still expected them to reach the high potential both had shown.
Neither are bad players, but even Doz who moved up to the championship, are struggling to reach a consistently high standard. Consistency is something we need to most right now, so I don't think McKenna would have been able to do much more with the players than their individual ability and potential would have allowed.
I hope they both come good, but I doubt either will find their place at an elite level such as what once seemed their destiny. |
Bishop more than Dozzell, I think. Bishop came up as an attacking, box-to-box midfielder, losing pace and stamina is a killer for that.
Dozzell's a deep-lying playmaker. I'm not sure his injury cost him much in terms of physicality. They also tend to develop a bit later anyway. | |
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| It's academic now but.... on 15:23 - Mar 21 with 1577 views | abracaDOBRA_ |
| It's academic now but.... on 14:57 - Mar 21 by itfcjoe |
I think you may have got the wrong end of the stick of that story.... |
I read it late last night so have probably read it wrong! What was the jist of it? | | | |
| It's academic now but.... on 15:24 - Mar 21 with 1568 views | itfcjoe |
| It's academic now but.... on 15:23 - Mar 21 by abracaDOBRA_ |
I read it late last night so have probably read it wrong! What was the jist of it? |
Villa want Kalvin Phillips for £60m, and Leeds see Downes as a potential replacement | |
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| It's academic now but.... on 15:26 - Mar 21 with 1552 views | abracaDOBRA_ |
| It's academic now but.... on 15:24 - Mar 21 by itfcjoe |
Villa want Kalvin Phillips for £60m, and Leeds see Downes as a potential replacement |
haha i did think at the time 60m was a tad too much!! Now looking back im not sure how i didnt double check what id read, either way, hopefully a sell on fee for us | | | |
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