| The Robson and Burley comparisons 23:09 - Feb 6 with 3357 views | pointofblue |
Having read Terry Hunt's article in EADT:
https://www.eadt.co.uk/sport/23300342.cambridge-united-1-ipswich-town-1-terry-hu
The one thing which bugs me is the Robson and Burley comparisons, which I have also seen on here.
I do not think McKenna should go, but the team on the pitch has not been punching at it's weight since the end of October, and has a sizeable financial advantage over everyone but maybe Sheffield Wednesday. The same could not be said for us under Burley, where we were not head and shoulders about other sides finacially or squad wise, or Robson, where football was more of a level playing field between sides. I appreciate the argument of giving the manager time, but the comparisons detract from the argument, more than help IMO.
I agree more with Karl Fuller's take.
https://www.eadt.co.uk/sport/23302049.ipswich-town-karl-fuller-1-1-draw-cambridg |  |
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| The Robson and Burley comparisons on 23:14 - Feb 6 with 3037 views | tractorboy1978 |
There were cretins getting into Burley back in the day so it probably is a valid comparison. Burley also consistently had one of the best squads in the league, to suggest otherwise is disingenuous. | | | |
| The Robson and Burley comparisons on 23:29 - Feb 6 with 2969 views | Illinoisblue |
| The Robson and Burley comparisons on 23:14 - Feb 6 by tractorboy1978 |
There were cretins getting into Burley back in the day so it probably is a valid comparison. Burley also consistently had one of the best squads in the league, to suggest otherwise is disingenuous. |
Burley definitely had good squads but I don’t think the financial disparity was as ridiculous back then in the second tier as it is for us now. The ITFC annual budget is probably equal to that of Accrington, Morecambe, Cambridge and Burton combined. |  |
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| The Robson and Burley comparisons on 23:47 - Feb 6 with 2929 views | jaykay |
| The Robson and Burley comparisons on 23:29 - Feb 6 by Illinoisblue |
Burley definitely had good squads but I don’t think the financial disparity was as ridiculous back then in the second tier as it is for us now. The ITFC annual budget is probably equal to that of Accrington, Morecambe, Cambridge and Burton combined. |
it should be as our crowds are bigger than those 4 put together |  |
| forensic experts say footers and spruces fingerprints were not found at the scene after the weekends rows |
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| The Robson and Burley comparisons on 03:10 - Feb 7 with 2820 views | Illinoisblue |
| The Robson and Burley comparisons on 23:47 - Feb 6 by jaykay |
it should be as our crowds are bigger than those 4 put together |
That’s my point, we’re in a league with great extremes of disparity. That wasn’t the case with Burley’s era in the second tier. From memory, only Crewe and Stockport were the small clubs at that time - and both bigger than the aforementioned L1 teams we’re up against now. | |
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| The Robson and Burley comparisons on 07:39 - Feb 7 with 2638 views | Steve_M |
Maybe he regrets running his hate campaign against Magilton now. |  |
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| The Robson and Burley comparisons on 08:06 - Feb 7 with 2589 views | ElephantintheRoom |
The comparison was utterly absurd. Robson was developing a young inexperienced team in the top division which did very well to survive the formative years. Burley repeatedly looked gift horses in the mouth - but was a division higher up where the challenge was far greater McKenna is effectively coming third in a division of two clubs plus also rans. | |
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| The Robson and Burley comparisons on 08:59 - Feb 7 with 2490 views | MattinLondon |
The main comparison between the three managers being that, when appointed as Town managers, all three were young and inexperienced. All three, as what young players do, make mistakes and learn from them (hopefully). All three needed time, came in for criticism but ultimately came good.
There are other similarities between GB teams and KM team - exciting to watch, play pretty football but both struggled against defensively stubborn opposition. Both teams failed to capitalise on the openings that they created and were perceived to be easily bullied.
The other comparison is that the people who called out SBR and GB early on were bell ends. Similar to those calling for KM. |  | | |
| The Robson and Burley comparisons on 09:07 - Feb 7 with 2464 views | Suffolktractor |
| The Robson and Burley comparisons on 08:06 - Feb 7 by ElephantintheRoom |
The comparison was utterly absurd. Robson was developing a young inexperienced team in the top division which did very well to survive the formative years. Burley repeatedly looked gift horses in the mouth - but was a division higher up where the challenge was far greater McKenna is effectively coming third in a division of two clubs plus also rans. |
Why do we think we have by far the best squad in the league? And say we should walk this league?
Take a look at The Plymouth squad, Sheffield Wednesday and Derby. They have very good players as they are proving. I can’t understand the arrogance of some of our support. Our squad probably has more depth than most of the other top teams but that only really comes into play when they get loads of injuries which so far they haven’t.
We do have a really talented team that plays great football, but it is 11 v 11 and sometimes when the other 11 turn up to stifle our game we struggle to break them down. Also we struggle to protect a lead in several games, maybe we lack that little bit of grit that Sheffield have.
McKenna is young and learning his trade, so he will make some mistakes, but I think that at last we are very lucky to have a manager that plays football in the right way entertains the fans compared to some of the s**te we have put up with for years on end. | | | |
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| The Robson and Burley comparisons on 09:23 - Feb 7 with 2400 views | Churchman |
| The Robson and Burley comparisons on 08:59 - Feb 7 by MattinLondon |
The main comparison between the three managers being that, when appointed as Town managers, all three were young and inexperienced. All three, as what young players do, make mistakes and learn from them (hopefully). All three needed time, came in for criticism but ultimately came good.
There are other similarities between GB teams and KM team - exciting to watch, play pretty football but both struggled against defensively stubborn opposition. Both teams failed to capitalise on the openings that they created and were perceived to be easily bullied.
The other comparison is that the people who called out SBR and GB early on were bell ends. Similar to those calling for KM. |
I agree with this. Could Alf Ramsey be added to the list? It was his first job and even though the record shows a remarkable progression, I’m sure it wasn’t easy.
It’s hard to compare across eras. I think the comparison with Burleys is the closest as your second paragraph highlights. Robson’s was different. The first three and a half seasons were a bit of a scramble to say the least, but the Board kept their nerve.
The Cobbolds had a well deserved reputation for ‘hospitality’, but not only were they a good judge of people, they had the strength to be loyal and patient too. They were what I would describe as ‘big picture’ people. They even kept faith with Milburn and it was he who made the decision to go.
As a rule in any walk of life, if you see something in a person, are patient and supportive you will more often than not get your rewards. |  | | |
| The Robson and Burley comparisons on 10:02 - Feb 7 with 2320 views | MattinLondon |
| The Robson and Burley comparisons on 09:23 - Feb 7 by Churchman |
I agree with this. Could Alf Ramsey be added to the list? It was his first job and even though the record shows a remarkable progression, I’m sure it wasn’t easy.
It’s hard to compare across eras. I think the comparison with Burleys is the closest as your second paragraph highlights. Robson’s was different. The first three and a half seasons were a bit of a scramble to say the least, but the Board kept their nerve.
The Cobbolds had a well deserved reputation for ‘hospitality’, but not only were they a good judge of people, they had the strength to be loyal and patient too. They were what I would describe as ‘big picture’ people. They even kept faith with Milburn and it was he who made the decision to go.
As a rule in any walk of life, if you see something in a person, are patient and supportive you will more often than not get your rewards. |
It is hard to compare across eras as football quickly changes. Even if we don’t go up I doubt whether KM will be sacked but maybe Ashton will be the sacrificial lamb - hope not as I think we need patience. | | | |
| The Robson and Burley comparisons on 10:20 - Feb 7 with 2282 views | tractorboy1978 |
| The Robson and Burley comparisons on 10:02 - Feb 7 by MattinLondon |
It is hard to compare across eras as football quickly changes. Even if we don’t go up I doubt whether KM will be sacked but maybe Ashton will be the sacrificial lamb - hope not as I think we need patience. |
There are ways of failing. If we finish 3rd and miss out in the play offs I think everyone associated with the club will be hugely disappointed but you aren't in sacrificial lamb territory. We've done so much right over the past year or so - we'd go again, much like we did several times under Burley. | | | |
| The Robson and Burley comparisons on 10:30 - Feb 7 with 2231 views | DJR |
Given the investment in players etc who fit McKenna's style, we have to stick with McKenna whether or not we go up this season, because I don't think anyone else will play McKenna-ball as well as he does.
Of course, it could be argued that trying to play decent football in Division 1 is not the way to succeed (as MK Dons found out to their cost last season), but it's far to early to give up on things.
And were we to fail this season, I would trust McKenna to realise where things had gone wrong, and maybe tweak the way we play for next season. [Post edited 7 Feb 2023 10:45]
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| The Robson and Burley comparisons on 10:41 - Feb 7 with 2189 views | MattinLondon |
| The Robson and Burley comparisons on 10:20 - Feb 7 by tractorboy1978 |
There are ways of failing. If we finish 3rd and miss out in the play offs I think everyone associated with the club will be hugely disappointed but you aren't in sacrificial lamb territory. We've done so much right over the past year or so - we'd go again, much like we did several times under Burley. |
I agree, patience is needed. | | | |
| The Robson and Burley comparisons on 11:13 - Feb 7 with 2112 views | ElephantintheRoom |
| The Robson and Burley comparisons on 09:07 - Feb 7 by Suffolktractor |
Why do we think we have by far the best squad in the league? And say we should walk this league?
Take a look at The Plymouth squad, Sheffield Wednesday and Derby. They have very good players as they are proving. I can’t understand the arrogance of some of our support. Our squad probably has more depth than most of the other top teams but that only really comes into play when they get loads of injuries which so far they haven’t.
We do have a really talented team that plays great football, but it is 11 v 11 and sometimes when the other 11 turn up to stifle our game we struggle to break them down. Also we struggle to protect a lead in several games, maybe we lack that little bit of grit that Sheffield have.
McKenna is young and learning his trade, so he will make some mistakes, but I think that at last we are very lucky to have a manager that plays football in the right way entertains the fans compared to some of the s**te we have put up with for years on end. |
It’s not arrogance to point out that the franchise model of buying players non stop is not entirely successful. Nor is it unreasonable to point out that McKenna appears to be making the same mistakes. Nor is it unreasonable to point out that the third division is a bit of a mismatch compared to the second and first divisions of times past. Someone pointed out that disastrous seasons in the Burley era were turned around by Hamilton and Houston. All McKenna has is yes men he’s comfortable with and a year’s experience of third division football. A better comparison would have been with Ramsey - a managerial tyro in division 3 ie a level playing field. I’m not sure he signed 13 players in 27 matches either. | |
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| The Robson and Burley comparisons on 11:36 - Feb 7 with 2031 views | FrimleyBlue |
I can't speak of the Robson years. But I can't see how people can compare what Burley took over to what KM took over.
Apart from different divisions itself. KM has walked into a club with more money than all others in league 1.
Inherited a squad where the majority would have walked into other lineups, recent championship players included, and then had the ability to spend another £6/8 million himself.
I'm sure KM will have an excellent career. His knowledge. His preparation etc is levels above this league.. my concern is if he just wasn't the right manager for this level of the project. I think KM in the championship will be a lethal manager. But league 1 is to low for him imo.
He will learn. He doesn't really have a choice. But we really need him to learn quick. |  |
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| The Robson and Burley comparisons on 11:58 - Feb 7 with 1989 views | Bobbychase |
Based on current reactions, there would have been calls for Burley to be sacked after the play-offs with Charlton, as we were awful in both legs, particularly at the Valley. I think that's a valid comparison. |  |
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| The Robson and Burley comparisons on 12:09 - Feb 7 with 1958 views | Bobbychase |
| The Robson and Burley comparisons on 11:36 - Feb 7 by FrimleyBlue |
I can't speak of the Robson years. But I can't see how people can compare what Burley took over to what KM took over.
Apart from different divisions itself. KM has walked into a club with more money than all others in league 1.
Inherited a squad where the majority would have walked into other lineups, recent championship players included, and then had the ability to spend another £6/8 million himself.
I'm sure KM will have an excellent career. His knowledge. His preparation etc is levels above this league.. my concern is if he just wasn't the right manager for this level of the project. I think KM in the championship will be a lethal manager. But league 1 is to low for him imo.
He will learn. He doesn't really have a choice. But we really need him to learn quick. |
The lines below are why I think it's not unreasonable to ask why our fans can't be more patient. We've been given everything in terms of resources that we've been enviously eyeing elsewhere for decades. To see people so quick to want to abandon the current project is quite frankly alarming. The owners and Ashton won't.
"Apart from different divisions itself. KM has walked into a club with more money than all others in league 1.
Inherited a squad where the majority would have walked into other lineups, recent championship players included, and then had the ability to spend another £6/8 million himself." | |
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| The Robson and Burley comparisons on 12:14 - Feb 7 with 1947 views | Churchman |
| The Robson and Burley comparisons on 11:13 - Feb 7 by ElephantintheRoom |
It’s not arrogance to point out that the franchise model of buying players non stop is not entirely successful. Nor is it unreasonable to point out that McKenna appears to be making the same mistakes. Nor is it unreasonable to point out that the third division is a bit of a mismatch compared to the second and first divisions of times past. Someone pointed out that disastrous seasons in the Burley era were turned around by Hamilton and Houston. All McKenna has is yes men he’s comfortable with and a year’s experience of third division football. A better comparison would have been with Ramsey - a managerial tyro in division 3 ie a level playing field. I’m not sure he signed 13 players in 27 matches either. |
In your ever optimistic posts you used to call them ‘franchise debt peddlers’, but you seem to have forgotten the last bit. You could call them ‘owners’ like most other people. What is this ‘franchise model’ thing and who are McKenna’s yes men?
You obviously know the bloke, how he operates and the club so I’d be interested to know.
That Kevin Keelan was a good keeper, wasn’t he. | | | |
| The Robson and Burley comparisons on 12:18 - Feb 7 with 1935 views | tractorboy1978 |
| The Robson and Burley comparisons on 11:36 - Feb 7 by FrimleyBlue |
I can't speak of the Robson years. But I can't see how people can compare what Burley took over to what KM took over.
Apart from different divisions itself. KM has walked into a club with more money than all others in league 1.
Inherited a squad where the majority would have walked into other lineups, recent championship players included, and then had the ability to spend another £6/8 million himself.
I'm sure KM will have an excellent career. His knowledge. His preparation etc is levels above this league.. my concern is if he just wasn't the right manager for this level of the project. I think KM in the championship will be a lethal manager. But league 1 is to low for him imo.
He will learn. He doesn't really have a choice. But we really need him to learn quick. |
It's not comparing what McKenna took over to what Burley took over though. It's comparing the 3/4 seasons before we finally got promoted to our position now, i.e the team playing the best football/having some of the best stats in the league and not quite getting where they need to be. If we'd panicked, been reactionary and not seen through Burley 'failing' we would not have ended up finishing 5th in the Premier League/getting into Europe. | | | |
| The Robson and Burley comparisons on 12:20 - Feb 7 with 1914 views | FrimleyBlue |
| The Robson and Burley comparisons on 12:09 - Feb 7 by Bobbychase |
The lines below are why I think it's not unreasonable to ask why our fans can't be more patient. We've been given everything in terms of resources that we've been enviously eyeing elsewhere for decades. To see people so quick to want to abandon the current project is quite frankly alarming. The owners and Ashton won't.
"Apart from different divisions itself. KM has walked into a club with more money than all others in league 1.
Inherited a squad where the majority would have walked into other lineups, recent championship players included, and then had the ability to spend another £6/8 million himself." |
Because unbeknown to any of us. We don't know how patient the owners will be remaining in league 1.
That's key
If they said we don't care how long it takes. Fine. Crack on.
But my nervousness is based around the likes of Steeds comments about losses and wanting to see results. I don't personally want us to struggle to get up and we end up with another Evans situation.
But then there's the question of what is an acceptable management performance. What should be the minimal expectation? That in itself is something each fan will have a different opinion on. | |
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| The Robson and Burley comparisons on 12:41 - Feb 7 with 1858 views | FrimleyBlue |
| The Robson and Burley comparisons on 12:18 - Feb 7 by tractorboy1978 |
It's not comparing what McKenna took over to what Burley took over though. It's comparing the 3/4 seasons before we finally got promoted to our position now, i.e the team playing the best football/having some of the best stats in the league and not quite getting where they need to be. If we'd panicked, been reactionary and not seen through Burley 'failing' we would not have ended up finishing 5th in the Premier League/getting into Europe. |
It's just how fans see things really
I never felt under Burley that we had the resources that meant that we should be competing every season, he was the reason we were. Kinda how utd struggled after fergy left. They carried on spending but no one was alex. That's how I felt year on year with Burley. He used the academy. He came from the academy. He was ipswich. He was doing a job I never felt anyone could do.
Which funnily enough was right as no one has done it since lol.
But the truth is we just should not be at this level with the resources we have. It's not entitlement. It's not a right. But when you spend what we have it's to get promoted It's not just to compete and play good football. And the tools have been given to do that job. | |
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| The Robson and Burley comparisons on 13:01 - Feb 7 with 1802 views | stonojnr |
| The Robson and Burley comparisons on 23:14 - Feb 6 by tractorboy1978 |
There were cretins getting into Burley back in the day so it probably is a valid comparison. Burley also consistently had one of the best squads in the league, to suggest otherwise is disingenuous. |
I'd said to people on Saturday, I'd love to replay the 99/00 season, under the current level of fans scrutiny, just because the flouncing would be epic to behold.
I think it's a fair comparison, the stats bear that out so far, and I well remember the same charges levelled at Burley that we weren't tough enough as a team we played too much football in a league that demanded hoofball, teams could sit back and defend against us and so on.
Whatever will be will be as the football cliche goes | | | |
| The Robson and Burley comparisons on 13:12 - Feb 7 with 1764 views | NthQldITFC |
| The Robson and Burley comparisons on 12:14 - Feb 7 by Churchman |
In your ever optimistic posts you used to call them ‘franchise debt peddlers’, but you seem to have forgotten the last bit. You could call them ‘owners’ like most other people. What is this ‘franchise model’ thing and who are McKenna’s yes men?
You obviously know the bloke, how he operates and the club so I’d be interested to know.
That Kevin Keelan was a good keeper, wasn’t he. |
Are you implying that this particular miserable olyfaunt dunks his trunk on the north bank of the Waveney? |  |
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| The Robson and Burley comparisons on 13:45 - Feb 7 with 1681 views | MattinLondon |
| The Robson and Burley comparisons on 13:12 - Feb 7 by NthQldITFC |
Are you implying that this particular miserable olyfaunt dunks his trunk on the north bank of the Waveney? |
I’d say he’s definitely a Town fan - but what a miserable arse his online persona is.
In real life however, he’s always up for a laugh. Once got so drunk he stole a baby elephant from Colchester Zoo. Woke up with its trunk tickling him. Hence his username. | | | |
| The Robson and Burley comparisons on 13:56 - Feb 7 with 1654 views | Churchman |
| The Robson and Burley comparisons on 13:45 - Feb 7 by MattinLondon |
I’d say he’s definitely a Town fan - but what a miserable arse his online persona is.
In real life however, he’s always up for a laugh. Once got so drunk he stole a baby elephant from Colchester Zoo. Woke up with its trunk tickling him. Hence his username. |
I don’t think he is. I think he trolls. I could write blogs on Norwich City with ease, despite hating the sight of the good ship Delia and all who sails in her.
If he is and actually ever attended a game, I pity the poor people sitting next to him. | | | |
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