| Has there ever been a bigger turn around in political fortunes? 09:33 - Mar 24 with 1615 views | bluelagos |
3 years ago Johnson is sitting on an 80 seat majority looking at a minimum of 2 probably 3 terms ahead of him, a party purged of his enemies and a cabinet of rabid brexit believers and converts...
Now down to the dregs of the Tory party as supporters, a bank bencher who only 13% of the electorate think is honest, the cheeky chap with a disregard for the rules shown to be a hopeless leader and a deeply flawed character completely unfit for high office...
Anyone think of a bigger turnaround? Literally a laughing stock, labelled a "poundshop Farage" with negligible political stock?
*can discount Truss as she was never won an election and was solely elected by the Tory party members. |  |
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| Has there ever been a bigger turn around in political fortunes? on 10:01 - Mar 24 with 1526 views | Darth_Koont |
Who could have known that the reality of Johnson, Brexit, the ERG and all the other swivel-eyed loons and self-serving incompetents swept up in their populist election campaign would be so disastrous and deliver a government entirely unfit to govern?
Certainly not our media who were cruelly misled by one of their own and really can’t be blamed for missing this. They were too busy holding the Tories and the narrow, neoliberal status quo to account for the declining state of the country and its economy. [Post edited 24 Mar 2023 10:31]
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| Has there ever been a bigger turn around in political fortunes? on 10:07 - Mar 24 with 1509 views | leitrimblue |
| Has there ever been a bigger turn around in political fortunes? on 10:01 - Mar 24 by Darth_Koont |
Who could have known that the reality of Johnson, Brexit, the ERG and all the other swivel-eyed loons and self-serving incompetents swept up in their populist election campaign would be so disastrous and deliver a government entirely unfit to govern?
Certainly not our media who were cruelly misled by one of their own and really can’t be blamed for missing this. They were too busy holding the Tories and the narrow, neoliberal status quo to account for the declining state of the country and its economy. [Post edited 24 Mar 2023 10:31]
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Yer, but the important thing to remember about the last election was that at least by voting in these self serving, hard right swivel eyed loons at least we kept the racists out.... |  | | |
| Has there ever been a bigger turn around in political fortunes? on 10:24 - Mar 24 with 1444 views | HARRY10 |
Churchill 1945 |  | | |
| Has there ever been a bigger turn around in political fortunes? on 10:33 - Mar 24 with 1417 views | bluelagos |
| Has there ever been a bigger turn around in political fortunes? on 10:24 - Mar 24 by HARRY10 |
Churchill 1945 |
Rejected by the electorate for sure - but I don't think his character was destroyed (at the time) as Johnson's has been.
And I know he has since been shown to have many flaws - but Churchill is still revered by most people as a good war leader that held the country together during that time. | |
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| Has there ever been a bigger turn around in political fortunes? on 10:40 - Mar 24 with 1384 views | Darth_Koont |
| Has there ever been a bigger turn around in political fortunes? on 10:33 - Mar 24 by bluelagos |
Rejected by the electorate for sure - but I don't think his character was destroyed (at the time) as Johnson's has been.
And I know he has since been shown to have many flaws - but Churchill is still revered by most people as a good war leader that held the country together during that time. |
But we knew Johnson’s character before he became Prime Minister or even Foreign Secretary.
That stint alone should have taken him out of the public sphere forever. But as we’ve seen throughout his life and career, his rise has been almost entirely driven by media colleagues, politicians and too many of the population looking the other way at every available opportunity. | |
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| Has there ever been a bigger turn around in political fortunes? on 11:25 - Mar 24 with 1310 views | DeepBlueSea |
| Has there ever been a bigger turn around in political fortunes? on 10:24 - Mar 24 by HARRY10 |
Churchill 1945 |
I’ve still never fully understood this. I know that Churchill and WW2 have become legends in this countries past, and that what we think now doesn’t necessarily reflect how people felt at the time, but it’s still fairly surprising. | | | |
| Has there ever been a bigger turn around in political fortunes? on 11:27 - Mar 24 with 1292 views | HARRY10 |
| Has there ever been a bigger turn around in political fortunes? on 10:33 - Mar 24 by bluelagos |
Rejected by the electorate for sure - but I don't think his character was destroyed (at the time) as Johnson's has been.
And I know he has since been shown to have many flaws - but Churchill is still revered by most people as a good war leader that held the country together during that time. |
Though not by the populace at the time as recorded by Mass Observation.
It was that unpopularity that saw him booted out a couple of months after VE day. Incompetent as he was, he was not an habitual liar, or even a liar.
Johnsons main flaw is that he is not as clever as he deludes himself to be. Rather than working as a decent journalist when in Brussels he instead chose to make up stuff based around lying about supposed EU law. That fabrication eventually saw him sacked after inventing a quote.
He does seem to have tried to ape Churchill in mannerisms and props. But Churchill was similarly an old fraud. Crowbarring in quotes that and phrases he had spent time writing, rather than being off the cuff remarks as with Dorothy Parker. However Churchill made no bones about what he was about in that respect.
Johnson could affect the behaviour, often through absurd posturing and dress, but could never deliver. As time and time again that was his undoing. And if all you have is the promise that you will deliver, then it is by that you will be judged.
So despite his fantasy that he will be remembered for the bridges, tunnels, airports and lord knows what named after him, I suspect he will be seen by history as little more than a failed Walter Mitty character, who fooled some of the people some of the time.
And that was about it. | | | |
| Has there ever been a bigger turn around in political fortunes? on 11:47 - Mar 24 with 1283 views | Guthrum |
| Has there ever been a bigger turn around in political fortunes? on 11:25 - Mar 24 by DeepBlueSea |
I’ve still never fully understood this. I know that Churchill and WW2 have become legends in this countries past, and that what we think now doesn’t necessarily reflect how people felt at the time, but it’s still fairly surprising. |
1940 was a long time before 1945. Don't underestimate war-weariness, exhaustion and the desire for a fresh start. Also the Conservatives had been in power since 1935 (effectively so for four years before that, with Ramsay MacDonald as a figurehead), without a General Election for a decade. Johnson-style personality cults among UK political leaders were not as strong then as they are today.
Edit: It's not like Churchill was re-elected (not that he was voted in as PM in the first place) at the first opportunity after 1945. Everyone forgets about 1950. [Post edited 24 Mar 2023 11:52]
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| Has there ever been a bigger turn around in political fortunes? on 11:56 - Mar 24 with 1215 views | bluelagos |
| Has there ever been a bigger turn around in political fortunes? on 11:27 - Mar 24 by HARRY10 |
Though not by the populace at the time as recorded by Mass Observation.
It was that unpopularity that saw him booted out a couple of months after VE day. Incompetent as he was, he was not an habitual liar, or even a liar.
Johnsons main flaw is that he is not as clever as he deludes himself to be. Rather than working as a decent journalist when in Brussels he instead chose to make up stuff based around lying about supposed EU law. That fabrication eventually saw him sacked after inventing a quote.
He does seem to have tried to ape Churchill in mannerisms and props. But Churchill was similarly an old fraud. Crowbarring in quotes that and phrases he had spent time writing, rather than being off the cuff remarks as with Dorothy Parker. However Churchill made no bones about what he was about in that respect.
Johnson could affect the behaviour, often through absurd posturing and dress, but could never deliver. As time and time again that was his undoing. And if all you have is the promise that you will deliver, then it is by that you will be judged.
So despite his fantasy that he will be remembered for the bridges, tunnels, airports and lord knows what named after him, I suspect he will be seen by history as little more than a failed Walter Mitty character, who fooled some of the people some of the time.
And that was about it. |
"Johnsons main flaw is that he is not as clever as he deludes himself to be..."
Think that's it in a nutshell. The arrogance of allowing things like "wine Friday" to carry on during the pandemic - thinking the rules didn't apply to him and those around him - that they were special / more important than the ordinary people.
He also thought that he could bullsh1t his way out of it - and why not - that's what he'd done his whole life.
He has created a persona, got to the top and will/has make millions on the back of it - so if you judge someone solely on wealth - then yeah he's super clever/successful.
But if you judge someone by their character or by what they achieve then his legacy is of a proven liar with no substance who immeasurably damaged the country in his persuit of high office.
And he has damaged democracy too, which is why it's so important the committee finds against him. Others that follow need to understand that lying to Parliament is unforgivable - knowingly or recklessly. | |
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| Has there ever been a bigger turn around in political fortunes? on 12:20 - Mar 24 with 1138 views | Darth_Koont |
| Has there ever been a bigger turn around in political fortunes? on 10:01 - Mar 24 by Darth_Koont |
Who could have known that the reality of Johnson, Brexit, the ERG and all the other swivel-eyed loons and self-serving incompetents swept up in their populist election campaign would be so disastrous and deliver a government entirely unfit to govern?
Certainly not our media who were cruelly misled by one of their own and really can’t be blamed for missing this. They were too busy holding the Tories and the narrow, neoliberal status quo to account for the declining state of the country and its economy. [Post edited 24 Mar 2023 10:31]
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Sorry ullaa, that was insensitive of me.
I forgot that this must all come as a bit of a nasty shock for you poor Telegraph readers.
#ThoughtsAndPrayers [Post edited 24 Mar 2023 12:22]
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| Has there ever been a bigger turn around in political fortunes? on 13:14 - Mar 24 with 1059 views | giant_stow |
| Has there ever been a bigger turn around in political fortunes? on 12:20 - Mar 24 by Darth_Koont |
Sorry ullaa, that was insensitive of me.
I forgot that this must all come as a bit of a nasty shock for you poor Telegraph readers.
#ThoughtsAndPrayers [Post edited 24 Mar 2023 12:22]
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Don't you worry about me dearheart. i was just minorly miffed at your rewriting of history on how nobody saw the brexit disaster coming - even some Tories did, let alone large tracts of the media and civil society. I know it suits your 'everything is screwed in modern public British life' narrative, but lets not go down the fake news route. |  |
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| Has there ever been a bigger turn around in political fortunes? on 14:18 - Mar 24 with 962 views | Darth_Koont |
| Has there ever been a bigger turn around in political fortunes? on 13:14 - Mar 24 by giant_stow |
Don't you worry about me dearheart. i was just minorly miffed at your rewriting of history on how nobody saw the brexit disaster coming - even some Tories did, let alone large tracts of the media and civil society. I know it suits your 'everything is screwed in modern public British life' narrative, but lets not go down the fake news route. |
So you misread my post.
It wasn’t a comment on the stupidity and damage of Brexit per se. It was a comment on the type of government that would result from the politicians making it their flagship offer to the electorate in 2019.
And “fake news” is a bit rich considering the disingenuous and smeary stunts you pull to misrepresent and dismiss information. Your little bit of antisemitism weaponisation (and antisemitism!) from the other day is still there, I see. | |
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| Has there ever been a bigger turn around in political fortunes? on 14:24 - Mar 24 with 941 views | wkj |
Johnson and Trump lead a campaign of taglines and mottos, soundbites and social media clips. It is powerful to get the attention of voters, but useless to maintain the stewardship of a nation.
This is the danger of modern politics leaning into "I'm not as bad as the other guy" - as it has essentially became a reality TV show mentality of voting the person you don't want off the Island. However, like so many reality TV winners, they all fade into obscurity as quickly as their fuse caught fire.
Our country will not heal as it needs to until the electorate wakes up and demands their political party to sell their manifesto and present themselves as the best choice based on that manifesto.
We have to start voting on the merits of politicians again and not the cult of personality. |  |
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| Has there ever been a bigger turn around in political fortunes? on 14:28 - Mar 24 with 928 views | giant_stow |
| Has there ever been a bigger turn around in political fortunes? on 14:18 - Mar 24 by Darth_Koont |
So you misread my post.
It wasn’t a comment on the stupidity and damage of Brexit per se. It was a comment on the type of government that would result from the politicians making it their flagship offer to the electorate in 2019.
And “fake news” is a bit rich considering the disingenuous and smeary stunts you pull to misrepresent and dismiss information. Your little bit of antisemitism weaponisation (and antisemitism!) from the other day is still there, I see. |
No time to play now fella - maybe later. | |
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| Has there ever been a bigger turn around in political fortunes? on 14:38 - Mar 24 with 907 views | Darth_Koont |
| Has there ever been a bigger turn around in political fortunes? on 14:24 - Mar 24 by wkj |
Johnson and Trump lead a campaign of taglines and mottos, soundbites and social media clips. It is powerful to get the attention of voters, but useless to maintain the stewardship of a nation.
This is the danger of modern politics leaning into "I'm not as bad as the other guy" - as it has essentially became a reality TV show mentality of voting the person you don't want off the Island. However, like so many reality TV winners, they all fade into obscurity as quickly as their fuse caught fire.
Our country will not heal as it needs to until the electorate wakes up and demands their political party to sell their manifesto and present themselves as the best choice based on that manifesto.
We have to start voting on the merits of politicians again and not the cult of personality. |
Agreed. Especially this:
“Our country will not heal as it needs to until the electorate wakes up and demands their political party to sell their manifesto and present themselves as the best choice based on that manifesto.”
Although we’re still missing a step. Which is that we have to better understand the actual problems we’re trying to solve or where improvements could and should be made. We’ve had the folly of Brexit and right-wing populism dominating the discussions for a decade when the actual metrics in our economy and society such as low productivity, stagnant wages and millions of children in poverty are barely covered. But unfortunately we have a media that generally doesn’t know or care about any of that, hence politics is covered as if it’s about personalities and the game of politics rather than what it should be: a daily exposé of a political class not doing their actual democratic representative job of running a country for its citizens but for themselves.
We seem to be in the ultimately impossible position of needing someone to hold our journalists to account first. | |
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| Has there ever been a bigger turn around in political fortunes? on 15:17 - Mar 24 with 826 views | Kropotkin123 |
Leon Trotsky? Expected to replace Lenin as leader. Ended up assassinated whilst in exile. |  |
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| Has there ever been a bigger turn around in political fortunes? on 17:13 - Mar 24 with 722 views | LeoMuff |
| Has there ever been a bigger turn around in political fortunes? on 11:56 - Mar 24 by bluelagos |
"Johnsons main flaw is that he is not as clever as he deludes himself to be..."
Think that's it in a nutshell. The arrogance of allowing things like "wine Friday" to carry on during the pandemic - thinking the rules didn't apply to him and those around him - that they were special / more important than the ordinary people.
He also thought that he could bullsh1t his way out of it - and why not - that's what he'd done his whole life.
He has created a persona, got to the top and will/has make millions on the back of it - so if you judge someone solely on wealth - then yeah he's super clever/successful.
But if you judge someone by their character or by what they achieve then his legacy is of a proven liar with no substance who immeasurably damaged the country in his persuit of high office.
And he has damaged democracy too, which is why it's so important the committee finds against him. Others that follow need to understand that lying to Parliament is unforgivable - knowingly or recklessly. |
All so predictable if you even vaguely follow current affairs, which unfortunately the vast majority of the country do not.
The comments from his Eaton masters are literally a plan of how the future would pan out. |  |
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| Has there ever been a bigger turn around in political fortunes? on 17:25 - Mar 24 with 695 views | Chondzoresk |
I’m sick of the tories. Sooner they get booted big time the better. I’m a former Tory voter. Had enough, I am going back to my roots as a labour supporter. Country wrecked, dodgy dealings. Health and Education being strangled. I wouldn’t cross the road to Pi$$ on Johnson if he was on fire. |  | | |
| Has there ever been a bigger turn around in political fortunes? on 17:25 - Mar 24 with 692 views | monkeymagic |
| Has there ever been a bigger turn around in political fortunes? on 11:27 - Mar 24 by HARRY10 |
Though not by the populace at the time as recorded by Mass Observation.
It was that unpopularity that saw him booted out a couple of months after VE day. Incompetent as he was, he was not an habitual liar, or even a liar.
Johnsons main flaw is that he is not as clever as he deludes himself to be. Rather than working as a decent journalist when in Brussels he instead chose to make up stuff based around lying about supposed EU law. That fabrication eventually saw him sacked after inventing a quote.
He does seem to have tried to ape Churchill in mannerisms and props. But Churchill was similarly an old fraud. Crowbarring in quotes that and phrases he had spent time writing, rather than being off the cuff remarks as with Dorothy Parker. However Churchill made no bones about what he was about in that respect.
Johnson could affect the behaviour, often through absurd posturing and dress, but could never deliver. As time and time again that was his undoing. And if all you have is the promise that you will deliver, then it is by that you will be judged.
So despite his fantasy that he will be remembered for the bridges, tunnels, airports and lord knows what named after him, I suspect he will be seen by history as little more than a failed Walter Mitty character, who fooled some of the people some of the time.
And that was about it. |
Post Guppygate, I found it extraordinary that he could even be an MP, never mind become Foreign Secretary, Leader of the Conservatives and ultimately Prime Minister.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/14/black-eyes-boris-johnson-plot-a
This is not to mention the lies, cheating, adultery, etc etc.
There’s been plenty of loathsome politicians but many at least had some redeeming qualities. I genuinely struggle to think of any good that he has done in his life. While not great, that’s ok if you’re office fodder like me, but dreadful for a leader of a Country. | | | |
| Has there ever been a bigger turn around in political fortunes? on 17:27 - Mar 24 with 685 views | factual_blue |
| Has there ever been a bigger turn around in political fortunes? on 11:25 - Mar 24 by DeepBlueSea |
I’ve still never fully understood this. I know that Churchill and WW2 have become legends in this countries past, and that what we think now doesn’t necessarily reflect how people felt at the time, but it’s still fairly surprising. |
Churchill was never really liked or trusted by large parts of the population, and he was very close to being ousted from his job in 1942.
I think it's also probably fair to say that people came to know and trust Atlee, who essentially ran the country during the war.
And it's certainly true that Churchill became the hero in the history of the war because - as he himself said - he wrote the history. That's disappointing on a number of levels, particularly that he's bequeathed a couple of generations with a distorted view of the history of WW2 that doesn't really stand up to close scrutiny and has contributed massively to the sense of British 'exceptionalism' that plagues us. |  |
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