| Probably not for the last time this year, solidarity with the junior doctors (n/t) 09:09 - Jan 3 with 4656 views | BlueBadger |
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| Probably not for the last time this year, solidarity with the junior doctors (n/ on 09:26 - Jan 3 with 3248 views | homer_123 |
I will be clapping Badge, don't worry! |  |
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| Probably not for the last time this year, solidarity with the junior doctors (n/ on 09:28 - Jan 3 with 3242 views | BlueBadger |
| Probably not for the last time this year, solidarity with the junior doctors (n/ on 09:26 - Jan 3 by homer_123 |
I will be clapping Badge, don't worry! |
It's won't be a true display of solidarity until TWTD's Anti Bullying and Pro Niceness Lead adds in their downvote. | |
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| Probably not for the last time this year, solidarity with the junior doctors (n/ on 09:39 - Jan 3 with 3214 views | matteoblue |
If doctors think that putting people's lives at risk is acceptable, then they are in the wrong profession. |  |
| We are Premier League, say we are Premier League! |
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| Probably not for the last time this year, solidarity with the junior doctors (n/ on 09:44 - Jan 3 with 3172 views | BlueBadger |
| Probably not for the last time this year, solidarity with the junior doctors (n/ on 09:39 - Jan 3 by matteoblue |
If doctors think that putting people's lives at risk is acceptable, then they are in the wrong profession. |
If the government think that putting people's lives at risk by spending over a decade cutting the real-terms pay of essential workers and making the UK a less attractive place for them to work as a result, then they don't deserve to be the government. | |
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| Probably not for the last time this year, solidarity with the junior doctors (n/ on 09:45 - Jan 3 with 3168 views | MattinLondon |
| Probably not for the last time this year, solidarity with the junior doctors (n/ on 09:39 - Jan 3 by matteoblue |
If doctors think that putting people's lives at risk is acceptable, then they are in the wrong profession. |
If docs and nurses continue to be paid poorly and work dangerously long hours then there won’t be much of a profession left in ten years time. |  | | |
| Probably not for the last time this year, solidarity with the junior doctors (n/ on 09:48 - Jan 3 with 3154 views | Guthrum |
| Probably not for the last time this year, solidarity with the junior doctors (n/ on 09:39 - Jan 3 by matteoblue |
If doctors think that putting people's lives at risk is acceptable, then they are in the wrong profession. |
The problem with that being it excludes certain professions from being able to pressure their employers in relation to poor pay and/or conditions.
Doubly so when it is a profession which has had to take a front-line role in a recent crisis, during which their employer wilfully wasted huge sums on sub-standard equipment which put workers' lives at risk. |  |
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| Probably not for the last time this year, solidarity with the junior doctors (n/ on 09:53 - Jan 3 with 3101 views | oldbeardy |
I'd be more supportive if the ask (35%?!) was more reasonable. |  | | |
| Probably not for the last time this year, solidarity with the junior doctors (n/ on 09:54 - Jan 3 with 3111 views | CBMTOBWMMBG |
| Probably not for the last time this year, solidarity with the junior doctors (n/ on 09:44 - Jan 3 by BlueBadger |
If the government think that putting people's lives at risk by spending over a decade cutting the real-terms pay of essential workers and making the UK a less attractive place for them to work as a result, then they don't deserve to be the government. |
nope, not with you on this, the approach is wrong, though I am very sympathetic to them getting more pay over time.
Previous strikes have not worked and doubling down at this vulnerable time of year is not a winning tactic. It will just irritate and annoy, as well as have a real effect on many ill / worried people.
They need to dial down the request (35% is just not going to happen) and have proper conversations. They are playing to their supporters, not the people they need to persuade.
Militancy and working in health are not bed-fellows. Persuade, influence, debate.
And yes, the government are hopeless, unfair, incapable etc. But that is a separate issue. | | | |
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| Probably not for the last time this year, solidarity with the junior doctors (n/ on 09:54 - Jan 3 with 3099 views | BlueBadger |
| Probably not for the last time this year, solidarity with the junior doctors (n/ on 09:53 - Jan 3 by oldbeardy |
I'd be more supportive if the ask (35%?!) was more reasonable. |
Tell us you don't understand how bargaining and negotiation works without telling us you don't understand how bargaining and negotiation work. | |
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| Probably not for the last time this year, solidarity with the junior doctors (n/ on 09:57 - Jan 3 with 3058 views | oldbeardy |
| Probably not for the last time this year, solidarity with the junior doctors (n/ on 09:54 - Jan 3 by BlueBadger |
Tell us you don't understand how bargaining and negotiation works without telling us you don't understand how bargaining and negotiation work. |
Bit simplistic | | | |
| Probably not for the last time this year, solidarity with the junior doctors (n/ on 09:58 - Jan 3 with 3061 views | BlueBadger |
| Probably not for the last time this year, solidarity with the junior doctors (n/ on 09:54 - Jan 3 by CBMTOBWMMBG |
nope, not with you on this, the approach is wrong, though I am very sympathetic to them getting more pay over time.
Previous strikes have not worked and doubling down at this vulnerable time of year is not a winning tactic. It will just irritate and annoy, as well as have a real effect on many ill / worried people.
They need to dial down the request (35% is just not going to happen) and have proper conversations. They are playing to their supporters, not the people they need to persuade.
Militancy and working in health are not bed-fellows. Persuade, influence, debate.
And yes, the government are hopeless, unfair, incapable etc. But that is a separate issue. |
'Please just ask nicely' got us to the point of decade+ long real terms cuts. Healthcare(and public sector workers in general)have mostly been trying 'persuade, influence, debate' over a decade.
We got tax cuts for the top 1% and multi-billion handouts to government donors instead. [Post edited 3 Jan 2024 10:11]
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| Probably not for the last time this year, solidarity with the junior doctors (n/ on 10:13 - Jan 3 with 2993 views | BlueBadger |
| Probably not for the last time this year, solidarity with the junior doctors (n/ on 09:48 - Jan 3 by Guthrum |
The problem with that being it excludes certain professions from being able to pressure their employers in relation to poor pay and/or conditions.
Doubly so when it is a profession which has had to take a front-line role in a recent crisis, during which their employer wilfully wasted huge sums on sub-standard equipment which put workers' lives at risk. |
..and also ignores that all the healthcare strike software the last year have explicitly made exceptions and provision for cover for the most vulnerable and emergencies. My RCN colleagues in both my team, ED and ITU, for example all worked through various strikes.
Paramedics explicitly stated they would come off the line for category 1 calls. | |
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| Probably not for the last time this year, solidarity with the junior doctors (n/ on 10:20 - Jan 3 with 2917 views | oldbeardy |
Yes my 35% is shorthand - I get the "over time" point. Even so, the ask looks unrealistic even as a start point for negotiations. | | | |
| Probably not for the last time this year, solidarity with the junior doctors (n/ on 10:20 - Jan 3 with 2917 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Probably not for the last time this year, solidarity with the junior doctors (n/ on 09:53 - Jan 3 by oldbeardy |
I'd be more supportive if the ask (35%?!) was more reasonable. |
As I understand it, the ask isn't based on one year's inflation but to make up for real term pay cuts every year since 2010.
I may sound a bit like an old lefty on this but we should give massive pay rises to NHS staff and people who work in education and then put in a system like the triple lock on pensions, so that they don't fall behind again.
It would be very expensive for tis one time rise but then we won't have to go through this again. |  |
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| Probably not for the last time this year, solidarity with the junior doctors (n/ on 10:21 - Jan 3 with 2918 views | WestStanderLaLaLa |
| Probably not for the last time this year, solidarity with the junior doctors (n/ on 09:53 - Jan 3 by oldbeardy |
I'd be more supportive if the ask (35%?!) was more reasonable. |
If you had a 26% real terms pay cut over the years, what’s your starting point? |  |
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| Probably not for the last time this year, solidarity with the junior doctors (n/ on 10:23 - Jan 3 with 2902 views | BlueBadger |
| Probably not for the last time this year, solidarity with the junior doctors (n/ on 10:20 - Jan 3 by oldbeardy |
Yes my 35% is shorthand - I get the "over time" point. Even so, the ask looks unrealistic even as a start point for negotiations. |
You can hardly blame them for that, they're negotiating with people who thought 'if you don't give us what we want, we'll cripple ourselves' was a strong bargaining point during Brexit. | |
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| Probably not for the last time this year, solidarity with the junior doctors (n/ on 13:06 - Jan 3 with 2745 views | factual_blue |
| Probably not for the last time this year, solidarity with the junior doctors (n/ on 09:39 - Jan 3 by matteoblue |
If doctors think that putting people's lives at risk is acceptable, then they are in the wrong profession. |
Remind me, was it the BMA or the PM who was content to let the bodies pile up? |  |
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| Probably not for the last time this year, solidarity with the junior doctors (n/ on 13:42 - Jan 3 with 2676 views | Leaky |
| Probably not for the last time this year, solidarity with the junior doctors (n/ on 10:21 - Jan 3 by WestStanderLaLaLa |
If you had a 26% real terms pay cut over the years, what’s your starting point? |
Walk out get another job |  | | |
| Probably not for the last time this year, solidarity with the junior doctors (n/ on 13:47 - Jan 3 with 2654 views | Herbivore |
| Probably not for the last time this year, solidarity with the junior doctors (n/ on 13:42 - Jan 3 by Leaky |
Walk out get another job |
Great, and then we have no staff in the NHS. What a brilliant solution. |  |
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| Probably not for the last time this year, solidarity with the junior doctors (n/ on 13:50 - Jan 3 with 2641 views | Ryorry |
| Probably not for the last time this year, solidarity with the junior doctors (n/ on 13:42 - Jan 3 by Leaky |
Walk out get another job |
That is exactly the problem - doctors are leaving the NHS in droves, and can't be replaced, as potential recruits are put off by poor wages.
Have to say on this occasion though that I think 6 days is too long, really scares people, esp elderly/most vulnerable, who would normally support their action & sympathise. |  |
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| Probably not for the last time this year, solidarity with the junior doctors (n/ on 13:53 - Jan 3 with 2630 views | Herbivore |
| Probably not for the last time this year, solidarity with the junior doctors (n/ on 13:50 - Jan 3 by Ryorry |
That is exactly the problem - doctors are leaving the NHS in droves, and can't be replaced, as potential recruits are put off by poor wages.
Have to say on this occasion though that I think 6 days is too long, really scares people, esp elderly/most vulnerable, who would normally support their action & sympathise. |
If the government aren't willing to make a reasonable offer, what option do they have other than to escalate their action? | |
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| Probably not for the last time this year, solidarity with the junior doctors (n/ on 14:07 - Jan 3 with 2592 views | giant_stow |
| Probably not for the last time this year, solidarity with the junior doctors (n/ on 09:54 - Jan 3 by BlueBadger |
Tell us you don't understand how bargaining and negotiation works without telling us you don't understand how bargaining and negotiation work. |
35% is a bit of an outlier in unions negotiations tbf - I bet it even makes the RMT blush. |  |
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| Probably not for the last time this year, solidarity with the junior doctors (n/ on 14:13 - Jan 3 with 2560 views | LegendofthePhoenix |
| Probably not for the last time this year, solidarity with the junior doctors (n/ on 09:39 - Jan 3 by matteoblue |
If doctors think that putting people's lives at risk is acceptable, then they are in the wrong profession. |
do you work in the NHS? I thought not. You have no idea, just trotting out right wing ideological clap trap. Let me tell you - It's IMPOSSIBLE. The public services are not even on their knees any more, they are crippled. Can't attract any qualified staff because the pay and working conditions are so terrible. Water pouring through roofs, vermin infestations, clapped out equipment that should have been replaced more than a decade ago, power outages on a weekly basis. You'd have to be nuts to join this profession. |  |
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| Probably not for the last time this year, solidarity with the junior doctors (n/ on 14:28 - Jan 3 with 2505 views | matteoblue |
| Probably not for the last time this year, solidarity with the junior doctors (n/ on 14:13 - Jan 3 by LegendofthePhoenix |
do you work in the NHS? I thought not. You have no idea, just trotting out right wing ideological clap trap. Let me tell you - It's IMPOSSIBLE. The public services are not even on their knees any more, they are crippled. Can't attract any qualified staff because the pay and working conditions are so terrible. Water pouring through roofs, vermin infestations, clapped out equipment that should have been replaced more than a decade ago, power outages on a weekly basis. You'd have to be nuts to join this profession. |
I don't contest that it's a terrible place to work at all. That's precisely my point, they should work somewhere else or find another profession. But we don't need doctors who endanger human life, it is against the very point of being a doctor. | |
| We are Premier League, say we are Premier League! |
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