| Even paying big money 08:57 - Jun 20 with 2972 views | Asa |
It's mad to think of the gulf that exists just between being promoted and being a team towards the bottom of the league.
Let's say we got
Ioannidis - £20m
Hutchison - £15m
Sheaf - £12m
Rodon - £12m
Greaves - £10m
Those are the sorts of prices you'd imagine deals might be possible at.
That's £70m right there. For what is the team we got promoted with, and four potential upgrades, with no certainly that Greaves or Sheaf would be upgrades in terms of immediate quality, although I do think that's likely.
If we got those 5 I'd be over the moon, but that potentially leaves £20m or so for another two possible upgrades or one certain one. These are also marginal gains in some areas.
Of course if it took £25m to get Ioannidis done and £20m for Omari, that's £10m of that gone already.
Just goes to show that even with a couple of modest upgrades and a couple of sizable ones we could only be a little better overall in terms of quality, with all of the budget gone, even if we are spending at a good level, which is of course mind-blowing money for what we are used to.
Our club record could easily now go initially on someone seen as 'squad filler'.
I do think we'll be comfortable. But doesn't half show the value of the overseas scouting system as whilst I rate Rodon, Sheaf and Greaves and would love them all, there are no doubt players of similar or better quality available for a fraction of that price, but the very hard bit then is knowing the characters and how they fit into the squad in terms of culture, attitude and all the things the club demands.
Certainly going to be a fascinating and exciting window. |  | | |  |
| Even paying big money on 09:08 - Jun 20 with 2885 views | wkj |
Simms to Coventry an example of that trickling down. Simms wasn't that bad for Coventry, and I suspect the best is yet to come from him - but if we spent around £5-8m for a single player and failed to land a playoff spot, I would have been pretty unhappy. |  |
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| Even paying big money on 09:11 - Jun 20 with 2852 views | Asa |
| Even paying big money on 09:08 - Jun 20 by wkj |
Simms to Coventry an example of that trickling down. Simms wasn't that bad for Coventry, and I suspect the best is yet to come from him - but if we spent around £5-8m for a single player and failed to land a playoff spot, I would have been pretty unhappy. |
Yeah. It's bizarre to think we've totally skipped that step.
No doubt had we stayed in the Championship and be around those places for a few years, we'd see the likes of Davis leave for £15m and start buying those £3m - £7m players but we are seemingly going straight from £1.5m for a player Leicester don't want who was deemed a failure at Blackburn and Rotherham to trying to beat two Champions League teams to a £20m international. | | | |
| Even paying big money on 09:19 - Jun 20 with 2768 views | IPS_wich |
It is mind blowing to some extent - but if we had a starting XI of
Hladky
Tuanzebe - Rodon - Greaves - Davis
Morsy - Sheaf
Burns - Hutchison - Broadhead
Hirst or Ioannidis
With Walton, Woolfie, Burgess, Luongo, Chaplin, Hirst/Ionnidis, Clarke, Taylor on the bench.
That team would pi$$ on any team in championship history. Who knows how it would do in the Premier League - but there's no question that would be a team we could be proud to see run out in Blue.
[Yes - I know there's uncertainty around Hladky and Walton staying, but I am sure with the money left over we could get in a decent keeper or two] | | | |
| Even paying big money on 09:19 - Jun 20 with 2761 views | wkj |
| Even paying big money on 09:11 - Jun 20 by Asa |
Yeah. It's bizarre to think we've totally skipped that step.
No doubt had we stayed in the Championship and be around those places for a few years, we'd see the likes of Davis leave for £15m and start buying those £3m - £7m players but we are seemingly going straight from £1.5m for a player Leicester don't want who was deemed a failure at Blackburn and Rotherham to trying to beat two Champions League teams to a £20m international. |
I think it is fair to say we made out like bandits with Davis' transfer fee and we're lucky he was a catch from Leicester as I doubt many other teams would have sold him, let alone for what we paid. I do think we would have seen him move on had we ended in the playoffs and failed to go up, and probably for that inflated price.
In either case, its another feather in the cap for Town's recruitment who seem to know how to swoop for players that other teams aren't circling and then developing them to be league leaders.
I still think the "buy high" mentality is a lazy approach and teams could do much better investing heavily in their scouting and data analytics to buy low and sell high. That is quite literally the only way teams can stay afloat without regularly producing elite level youth.
I do think that the lower leagues are on the brink of collapse for financial matter, hell, even the Premier League is full of teams with bloated debt. If we're not at the point of financial saturation now, we're not far from it I feel. | |
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| Even paying big money on 09:32 - Jun 20 with 2707 views | IPS_wich |
| Even paying big money on 09:19 - Jun 20 by wkj |
I think it is fair to say we made out like bandits with Davis' transfer fee and we're lucky he was a catch from Leicester as I doubt many other teams would have sold him, let alone for what we paid. I do think we would have seen him move on had we ended in the playoffs and failed to go up, and probably for that inflated price.
In either case, its another feather in the cap for Town's recruitment who seem to know how to swoop for players that other teams aren't circling and then developing them to be league leaders.
I still think the "buy high" mentality is a lazy approach and teams could do much better investing heavily in their scouting and data analytics to buy low and sell high. That is quite literally the only way teams can stay afloat without regularly producing elite level youth.
I do think that the lower leagues are on the brink of collapse for financial matter, hell, even the Premier League is full of teams with bloated debt. If we're not at the point of financial saturation now, we're not far from it I feel. |
In many ways the circumstances around our promotion are ideal timing.
A lot of the lower Premier League clubs are in the financial mess they are in because they spent big before the FFP really started to grow teeth. Add in both Leicester and Southampton (as well as Leeds, Norwich, Watford) who will have a spending hangover from their recent times in the Premier League - requiring them to potentially fire sale some of their assets.
For us - as has been commented in many end of season retrospectives, we overspent by League 1 standards in 22/23; but we're bottom half in spending in the Championship in 23/24. We don't have any playing assets who have reduced in value in the last 12 months and the Gamechanger acquisition wiped out the worst of the debt from the Evans era.
Our financial future is really 100% in our control unlike many teams outside the big 6 and few other successful clubs in terms of league finishes in the last 2-3 years (Newcastle, Villa, Brighton).
Leicester, Forest, Everton are in deep doodoo - and the likes of West Ham and Chelsea could find themselves being dragged down as well if they don't get up the league table. | | | |
| Even paying big money on 09:33 - Jun 20 with 2696 views | HighgateBlue |
| Even paying big money on 09:19 - Jun 20 by IPS_wich |
It is mind blowing to some extent - but if we had a starting XI of
Hladky
Tuanzebe - Rodon - Greaves - Davis
Morsy - Sheaf
Burns - Hutchison - Broadhead
Hirst or Ioannidis
With Walton, Woolfie, Burgess, Luongo, Chaplin, Hirst/Ionnidis, Clarke, Taylor on the bench.
That team would pi$$ on any team in championship history. Who knows how it would do in the Premier League - but there's no question that would be a team we could be proud to see run out in Blue.
[Yes - I know there's uncertainty around Hladky and Walton staying, but I am sure with the money left over we could get in a decent keeper or two] |
I think there's very often hyperbole about teams hypothetically pi55ing the league. I'm sure fans of Leeds or Leicester could have made a similar case for their first XIs doing similar last year, but it didn't happen.
If one chooses the "Hirst" option from your XI, that's only three changes from the team we actually had last year (we had Hutch of course). It's a new CB pairing and a replacement for Luongo. The three added players played for teams that were 3rd, 7th and 9th in the Championship.
Given that we didn't win the league last season, I'm not sure that we could be confident that this side would have definitely won the division last year, let alone pi55ed it, let alone done the same to any team in championship history.
Having said that, I would love Hutch back, and all of these additions have excellent potential and would make really good signings. In Kieran we trust. |  | | |
| Even paying big money on 09:34 - Jun 20 with 2689 views | BiGDonnie |
I'd be absolutely buzzing with those five signings and would think we're in for all of them.
Sprinkle in a Sessengnon, Tanganga and Williams on a free and we're basically top 4. |  |
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| Even paying big money on 09:43 - Jun 20 with 2617 views | tractorboy1978 |
I do think there is an element of us being out of touch with and not used to Premier League fees. Even decent prospects from abroad that can cut it at Prem level, cost good money. You look at Brighton's business - they sign extremely well from abroad but often they aren't signing players for a pittance.
Enciso - £10m
Adingra - £8m
Estupinan - £15m
Verbruggen - £18m
Baleba - £23m
Igor - £14.5m | | | |
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| Even paying big money on 09:45 - Jun 20 with 2590 views | IPS_wich |
| Even paying big money on 09:33 - Jun 20 by HighgateBlue |
I think there's very often hyperbole about teams hypothetically pi55ing the league. I'm sure fans of Leeds or Leicester could have made a similar case for their first XIs doing similar last year, but it didn't happen.
If one chooses the "Hirst" option from your XI, that's only three changes from the team we actually had last year (we had Hutch of course). It's a new CB pairing and a replacement for Luongo. The three added players played for teams that were 3rd, 7th and 9th in the Championship.
Given that we didn't win the league last season, I'm not sure that we could be confident that this side would have definitely won the division last year, let alone pi55ed it, let alone done the same to any team in championship history.
Having said that, I would love Hutch back, and all of these additions have excellent potential and would make really good signings. In Kieran we trust. |
Those three added players are:
- The player of the year from the team that finished 7th
- The player of the year from the team that finished 9th
- The centre back in most Championship teams of the year
Plus Hutch who managed to get a Championship Player of the Season nomination despite barely starting before Christmas. | | | |
| Even paying big money on 09:51 - Jun 20 with 2509 views | DinDjarin |
| Even paying big money on 09:19 - Jun 20 by wkj |
I think it is fair to say we made out like bandits with Davis' transfer fee and we're lucky he was a catch from Leicester as I doubt many other teams would have sold him, let alone for what we paid. I do think we would have seen him move on had we ended in the playoffs and failed to go up, and probably for that inflated price.
In either case, its another feather in the cap for Town's recruitment who seem to know how to swoop for players that other teams aren't circling and then developing them to be league leaders.
I still think the "buy high" mentality is a lazy approach and teams could do much better investing heavily in their scouting and data analytics to buy low and sell high. That is quite literally the only way teams can stay afloat without regularly producing elite level youth.
I do think that the lower leagues are on the brink of collapse for financial matter, hell, even the Premier League is full of teams with bloated debt. If we're not at the point of financial saturation now, we're not far from it I feel. |
We signed Davis from Leeds |  | | |
| Even paying big money on 09:54 - Jun 20 with 2448 views | NthQldITFC |
| Even paying big money on 09:51 - Jun 20 by DinDjarin |
We signed Davis from Leeds |
Alright, no need to fall apart!  |  |
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| Even paying big money on 09:55 - Jun 20 with 2457 views | blueasfook |
Hutch would be a steal at £15m. I would think the starting point for buying him would be at least £20m |  |
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| Even paying big money on 10:01 - Jun 20 with 2393 views | PhilTWTD |
Notable that only Rodon has any Premier League experience - and in his case only a couple of games - and yet they probably would fetch the sort of prices you're suggesting, Ioannidis will probably go for nearer to €30m, from the conversations I've had over the last day or so (which I imagine we wouldn't pay).
Edit: Was forgetting Hutchinson played a couple of minutes for Chelsea.
This post has been edited by an administrator |  | | |
| “Immediate quality” are the key words on 10:03 - Jun 20 with 2340 views | unstableblue |
We have to hit the ground running.. and maybe only Hutchison and Rodon feel they’ll definitely
achieve that [Post edited 20 Jun 2024 10:04]
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| Even paying big money on 10:12 - Jun 20 with 2200 views | Asa |
| Even paying big money on 09:43 - Jun 20 by tractorboy1978 |
I do think there is an element of us being out of touch with and not used to Premier League fees. Even decent prospects from abroad that can cut it at Prem level, cost good money. You look at Brighton's business - they sign extremely well from abroad but often they aren't signing players for a pittance.
Enciso - £10m
Adingra - £8m
Estupinan - £15m
Verbruggen - £18m
Baleba - £23m
Igor - £14.5m |
I definitely agree.
But I think the position of our worldwide scouting is likely to be so far behind Brighton we will still be relying on turning a £15m English player into a £30m one, than what Brighton can do which is take a player costing half that and make them worth five times the fee they've paid.
I'd be confident with this set up that's where we get to, but we'd have to have a few years in the top division to catch up. | | | |
| Even paying big money on 10:13 - Jun 20 with 2197 views | HighgateBlue |
| Even paying big money on 09:45 - Jun 20 by IPS_wich |
Those three added players are:
- The player of the year from the team that finished 7th
- The player of the year from the team that finished 9th
- The centre back in most Championship teams of the year
Plus Hutch who managed to get a Championship Player of the Season nomination despite barely starting before Christmas. |
I get that, and I would be delighted with those signings given our budget and realistic position in the pecking order. Genuinely positive on all of them, so I think we're agreeing on the essential quality of the players. Although I can't say I've seen Rodon in most teams of the year. Minor point.
The main point is that I really don't think it's possible to say with such certainty that they would create an eleven that pi55es on any team in championship history. We've all heard predictions along the lines of pi55ing the league so many times and it just never happens. If neither Leicester nor Leeds did last season with all the money their sides cost (Vardy from the bench, a goal every 98 minutes), it's not an easy thing to predict in a single season, let alone some "all time" mega-league.
I suppose the more important question is how would these players do in the premier league, and I think that even if we only sign the five players you mention (including Hutch), we will stay up. A tough ask, but I am confident we will. Because the most important signing has already been made, and without him there's no way we'd even have a crack at the premier league by now.
COYB! | | | |
| Even paying big money on 10:20 - Jun 20 with 2123 views | OldFart71 |
It's certainly a crazy world. Go back to when Sir Bobby was manager and he sold Talbot to Arsenal for £350,000 and got in Muhren and Thyssen for £250,000. My concern is that we have two worlds now. One where money means nothing and is thrown around like confetti, where bosses of Company's are paid many millions, where footballers are paid more per week than working class people per year and the world still has a huge problem with poverty. Not that this hasn't existed for many years, but the gulf between have's and have not's is at it's greatest ever. Why can't young people afford mortgages. Not because of interest rates, but because of the absolutely stupid price of housing and wages for twenty years or more just haven't kept up with prices. | | | |
| Even paying big money on 11:12 - Jun 20 with 1886 views | ElephantintheRoom |
Hutchison played in the promotion team in case you didn’t notice
Other rentals will be available. - and perhaps players can perform at a higher level? They did last season. | |
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| Even paying big money on 11:45 - Jun 20 with 1754 views | FrankfurtBlue |
| Even paying big money on 10:12 - Jun 20 by Asa |
I definitely agree.
But I think the position of our worldwide scouting is likely to be so far behind Brighton we will still be relying on turning a £15m English player into a £30m one, than what Brighton can do which is take a player costing half that and make them worth five times the fee they've paid.
I'd be confident with this set up that's where we get to, but we'd have to have a few years in the top division to catch up. |
It is more than likely that we are behind the established EPL clubs in terms of European scouting network, let alone worldwide. Even if data driven, you still need some local expertise not obvious from the data alone, e.g. assessment of character, temperament, ambition, adaptability etc.
As far as I am aware, we still don't have a Head of Recruitment, after the departure of Sam Williams a few months back. That can't make recruitment any easier. |  | | |
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