| Correcting the wrongs of VAR 08:00 - Nov 4 with 1852 views | LegendofthePhoenix |
As posted by Rozz:
The referee may be assisted by a video assistant referee (VAR) only in the event of a 'clear and obvious error' or 'serious missed incident' in relation to:
goal/no goal
penalty/no penalty
direct red card (not second caution)
mistaken identity when the referee cautions or sends off the wrong player of the offending.
The consequences of wrong decisions are potentially huge, could be the difference between winning or not winning the PL at one end down to relegation and people losing jobs at the other. In the legal system, there is a process of appeal. Surely it's time that there was an independent panel (i.e. outside of PL and PGMOL) that reviews all incidents that fall into those categories, and then has the remit to rule on them.
So, what is the recourse for wrong decisions? There would need to be a subjective assessment of whether the incorrect decision was "game changing" or not. If so, then the only action that rights the wrong is to retrospectively award 1 to 2 points to the wronged team for each incident (up to a max of 3).
Points are (allegedly) deducted for FFP violations. I don't see why serious on-field errors that affect outcomes should have no remedy. I don't see that you could deduct points from the team that benefitted in a game, but you could add points to the team that suffered.
And simply the fact that this process is in place would put so much more scrutiny on PGMOL to actually get the decisions right in real time.
Fan pressure needs to ramp up to bring about change because what is happening is ruining football.
[Post edited 4 Nov 2024 8:12]
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| Correcting the wrongs of VAR on 08:35 - Nov 4 with 1734 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
This is killing football.
Awarding points would be a nonsense. I'd rather scrap VAR.
The players missed prime opportunities to secure the win on Saturday (that's ok, it haopens), we didnt draw just because of VAR. [Post edited 4 Nov 2024 8:35]
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| Correcting the wrongs of VAR on 08:50 - Nov 4 with 1671 views | portmanking |
| Correcting the wrongs of VAR on 08:35 - Nov 4 by Marshalls_Mullet |
This is killing football.
Awarding points would be a nonsense. I'd rather scrap VAR.
The players missed prime opportunities to secure the win on Saturday (that's ok, it haopens), we didnt draw just because of VAR. [Post edited 4 Nov 2024 8:35]
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You're right it is killing football, but the money involved, it has to be taken seriously.
Realistically, with ref/VAR issues, we should be at least three points better off in the league right now. Three points which could be the difference between another £140m in TV revenue or not come May. |  | | |
| Correcting the wrongs of VAR on 08:54 - Nov 4 with 1656 views | Garv |
| Correcting the wrongs of VAR on 08:50 - Nov 4 by portmanking |
You're right it is killing football, but the money involved, it has to be taken seriously.
Realistically, with ref/VAR issues, we should be at least three points better off in the league right now. Three points which could be the difference between another £140m in TV revenue or not come May. |
Have you totted up how many points all the other teams should be better off? |  |
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| Correcting the wrongs of VAR on 08:56 - Nov 4 with 1639 views | portmanking |
| Correcting the wrongs of VAR on 08:54 - Nov 4 by Garv |
Have you totted up how many points all the other teams should be better off? |
No idea, but I'm not just talking about Ipswich. Decisions need to applied consistently and correctly across every PL game.
At least, if everyone got the points they deserved and we were *still* in the bottom three, you could hold your hands up and say we're not quite good enough.
But if you take a point from Brentford and we win against Leicester, the chances are we're only 2-3 points from 14th/15th. [Post edited 4 Nov 2024 8:57]
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| Correcting the wrongs of VAR on 09:00 - Nov 4 with 1610 views | Radlett_blue |
| Correcting the wrongs of VAR on 08:56 - Nov 4 by portmanking |
No idea, but I'm not just talking about Ipswich. Decisions need to applied consistently and correctly across every PL game.
At least, if everyone got the points they deserved and we were *still* in the bottom three, you could hold your hands up and say we're not quite good enough.
But if you take a point from Brentford and we win against Leicester, the chances are we're only 2-3 points from 14th/15th. [Post edited 4 Nov 2024 8:57]
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There will always be inconsistency in refereeing decisions in football as so much is down to interpretation. The addition of VAR has created more inconsistency as we now have extra subjectivity i.e. should VAR look at an incident, is it a clear & obvious error etc. |  |
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| Correcting the wrongs of VAR on 09:08 - Nov 4 with 1539 views | LegendofthePhoenix |
| Correcting the wrongs of VAR on 09:00 - Nov 4 by Radlett_blue |
There will always be inconsistency in refereeing decisions in football as so much is down to interpretation. The addition of VAR has created more inconsistency as we now have extra subjectivity i.e. should VAR look at an incident, is it a clear & obvious error etc. |
Which is precisely why, in my opinion, there needs to be a higher appeal /review mechanism. Or you scrap it altogether. But we have it, and it is making massive errors worth tens of £Ms, and there is no accountability. Errors that thousands of fans can see. If you have courts that make big decisions, you also have an appeal system. | |
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| Correcting the wrongs of VAR on 09:09 - Nov 4 with 1534 views | portmanking |
| Correcting the wrongs of VAR on 09:00 - Nov 4 by Radlett_blue |
There will always be inconsistency in refereeing decisions in football as so much is down to interpretation. The addition of VAR has created more inconsistency as we now have extra subjectivity i.e. should VAR look at an incident, is it a clear & obvious error etc. |
I agree re. increased subjectivity wholeheartedly. That's the root cause. You're adding more humans into the mix to make decisions which are rarely black or white (except for clear and obvious fouls like Chaplin's!) | | | |
| Correcting the wrongs of VAR on 09:10 - Nov 4 with 1528 views | Bellevue_Blue |
| Correcting the wrongs of VAR on 09:00 - Nov 4 by Radlett_blue |
There will always be inconsistency in refereeing decisions in football as so much is down to interpretation. The addition of VAR has created more inconsistency as we now have extra subjectivity i.e. should VAR look at an incident, is it a clear & obvious error etc. |
Fundamentally this the problem. Clear and obvious errors don't really happen around those 4 main issues and the result is that now we just have standard errors being made because the extra subjectivity isn't something the PGMOL want.
The fundamental point is, we don't want any errors in the game so why not just let the on field referee see these defining decisions on the screen like in a game of Rugby.
How are we letting the VAR essentially make the decision when they have little to no context of the decision that has been made!
And more to the point ..... how are the fans still in the dark! | | | |
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| Correcting the wrongs of VAR on 09:12 - Nov 4 with 1506 views | portmanking |
| Correcting the wrongs of VAR on 09:08 - Nov 4 by LegendofthePhoenix |
Which is precisely why, in my opinion, there needs to be a higher appeal /review mechanism. Or you scrap it altogether. But we have it, and it is making massive errors worth tens of £Ms, and there is no accountability. Errors that thousands of fans can see. If you have courts that make big decisions, you also have an appeal system. |
Unfortunately, this is the reality. Football is a business/industry. In any other business/industry, if a company/brand has been wronged it has the ability to appeal or file lawsuits to be adequately compensated.
Purists - and I count myself in that group - would say having an appeal system is nonsense. But, with *so* much on the line now, it's borderline criminal not to have something in place. Investors pump tens, if not hundreds, of millions into teams and if they aren't getting a fair deal, what's the point? | | | |
| Correcting the wrongs of VAR on 09:39 - Nov 4 with 1425 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Correcting the wrongs of VAR on 08:50 - Nov 4 by portmanking |
You're right it is killing football, but the money involved, it has to be taken seriously.
Realistically, with ref/VAR issues, we should be at least three points better off in the league right now. Three points which could be the difference between another £140m in TV revenue or not come May. |
Nah, forget the money.
No one has ever been relegated because of a refereeing decision. They are incidental compared to the amount of mistakes players make.
If you sign up to invest in football, you sign up to the risk. | |
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| Correcting the wrongs of VAR on 09:42 - Nov 4 with 1403 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Correcting the wrongs of VAR on 08:56 - Nov 4 by portmanking |
No idea, but I'm not just talking about Ipswich. Decisions need to applied consistently and correctly across every PL game.
At least, if everyone got the points they deserved and we were *still* in the bottom three, you could hold your hands up and say we're not quite good enough.
But if you take a point from Brentford and we win against Leicester, the chances are we're only 2-3 points from 14th/15th. [Post edited 4 Nov 2024 8:57]
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To make that point, you 100% need to review how other teams have been affected.
We dont exist in a vacuum.
O'Shea, Hirst and Szomdics had clear cut chances to score on Sat, so the ref is not the only person making mistakes.
If you cant handle human error, maybe football isnt the sport for you. | |
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| Correcting the wrongs of VAR on 09:57 - Nov 4 with 1352 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Correcting the wrongs of VAR on 09:42 - Nov 4 by Marshalls_Mullet |
To make that point, you 100% need to review how other teams have been affected.
We dont exist in a vacuum.
O'Shea, Hirst and Szomdics had clear cut chances to score on Sat, so the ref is not the only person making mistakes.
If you cant handle human error, maybe football isnt the sport for you. |
I used to be able to handle simple human error. It definitely makes it harder to stomach when it has supposedly been watched back and checked though. This is the problem with video technology in football for me - other than offsides/goal line decisions everything is subjective so you can't get a perfect outcome. It comes down to luck of the draw who you get refereeing/on VAR on any given day. Which makes whole thing pointless for me.
There is no chance of legal action being able to be taken when the PGMOL can argue their reasoning for any subjective decision made. | | | |
| Correcting the wrongs of VAR on 10:08 - Nov 4 with 1310 views | Ryorry |
| Correcting the wrongs of VAR on 09:10 - Nov 4 by Bellevue_Blue |
Fundamentally this the problem. Clear and obvious errors don't really happen around those 4 main issues and the result is that now we just have standard errors being made because the extra subjectivity isn't something the PGMOL want.
The fundamental point is, we don't want any errors in the game so why not just let the on field referee see these defining decisions on the screen like in a game of Rugby.
How are we letting the VAR essentially make the decision when they have little to no context of the decision that has been made!
And more to the point ..... how are the fans still in the dark! |
It does work well in Rugby, that’s what gets me - complete with full audible explanation to the crowd.
If it works so well for them, how/why isn’t the same system being used for football? |  |
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| Correcting the wrongs of VAR on 10:17 - Nov 4 with 1263 views | Bellevue_Blue |
| Correcting the wrongs of VAR on 10:08 - Nov 4 by Ryorry |
It does work well in Rugby, that’s what gets me - complete with full audible explanation to the crowd.
If it works so well for them, how/why isn’t the same system being used for football? |
Exactly, how has the PGMOL looked at every other example of tech being used effectively and decided 'no that wont work for us'.
They are desperately trying to keep it as hidden as possible from the fans, there is absolutely no reason why we don't get the audio on the broadcast and every Monday following the weekend.
What have they got to hide?! | | | |
| Correcting the wrongs of VAR on 10:23 - Nov 4 with 1235 views | badadski |
| Correcting the wrongs of VAR on 09:00 - Nov 4 by Radlett_blue |
There will always be inconsistency in refereeing decisions in football as so much is down to interpretation. The addition of VAR has created more inconsistency as we now have extra subjectivity i.e. should VAR look at an incident, is it a clear & obvious error etc. |
Exactly why it should be scrapped, it doesn’t cover what it was invented for so no actual point in having it. | | | |
| Correcting the wrongs of VAR on 10:26 - Nov 4 with 1221 views | glasso |
It's OK we can just finish the season and then send the lawyers in over the summer.
20 lawyers, all wearing club kits, in a mass televised court case to decide who wins the league. Decision to be made by August 31.
Sorted. | | | |
| Correcting the wrongs of VAR on 10:30 - Nov 4 with 1195 views | Ryorry |
| Correcting the wrongs of VAR on 09:08 - Nov 4 by LegendofthePhoenix |
Which is precisely why, in my opinion, there needs to be a higher appeal /review mechanism. Or you scrap it altogether. But we have it, and it is making massive errors worth tens of £Ms, and there is no accountability. Errors that thousands of fans can see. If you have courts that make big decisions, you also have an appeal system. |
There is a complaints procedure - fill yer boots!
“How do I complain about a Premier League referee?
Complaints should be made in writing and may be submitted by post to:
Independent Football Ombudsman. Premier House. 1-5 Argyle Way. Stevenage. Hertfordshire. ...
or by e-mail to: contact@theifo.co.uk.
or via the website: www.theifo.co.uk.
You may initially register your concerns by phone and may wish to call us on 0330 165 4223.”
https://www.theifo.co.uk/complaints-procedure/ | |
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| Correcting the wrongs of VAR on 10:37 - Nov 4 with 1153 views | smithy91 |
Some thought needs to go into how to rectify it, if PGMOL even want to (they might lose the vehicle to influence games as and when they want to- before anyone thinks its whinging big team bias has been a thing since at least 'Fergie time') . Some of the apparently missed or wrong decisions are disgusting, completely ruining very entertaining games.
Im sure im not alone in not being that bothered by relegation as the championship was far less controversial without VAR... [Post edited 4 Nov 2024 10:43]
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