| Sorry to Dig up the Davis Going Forward Discussion again.... 12:30 - Jan 6 with 5319 views | Kievthegreat |
But I'm watching the highlights on MOTD2 and I'm still of the mind that it's poor play from the backline not to react, not over commitment from Davis. Although the pundits do disagree.
You can watch from 42:06 which is when we hit the post. At this point Davis is our furthest forward. However we've only got 4 men committed in their final third while Fulham have 8 (9 including GK).
42:10 Davis is making a challenge on the ball so can't retreat and still furthest forward. Still same numbers in the final third. So at this point we've got 6 players defending against 2 Fulham. Nowhere near over committed.
42:20 Fulham have gained possession and have put it out wide to their left back. Every town player is behind the ball and Fulham only have 4 in front of the ball. However every town player (bar the obvious one) is playing perfectly in shape as if Davis is there. 3 CBs in line, but only against one attacker; Burns in position, but marking no one; Morsy and Philips looking to keep close to the Fulham AMs in the middle. Then the Davis hole because Davis is still 15-20 yards behind.
This is the problem. The defensive line doesn't adjust to the lack of Davis. We didn't overcommit numbers and they've not countered in numbers. If the defence shifts leftwards, you make that cross field ball far more challenging and potentially cut out the play. Instead we've overcommitted defensively to our right and Fulham have pushed the space that wasn't closed.
Don't get me wrong, it's still a really sloppy tackle from Davis in the end and perhaps he could have put on the afterburners a fraction earlier to try and make up the space, but I'd be really disappointed in the backline and Phillips (as the DM on that side) for not responding to the threat if I was McKenna. |  | | |  |
| Sorry to Dig up the Davis Going Forward Discussion again.... on 12:39 - Jan 6 with 3805 views | portmanking |
At the time, I was really disappointed in Phillips for failing to sniff the danger of Davis being forward in the attack and not having the positional sense to drop in and stop the initial pass.
Watching it again, I'm even more frustrated. I do feel like he's been our biggest waste of money this season. No slight on him as a person or character, but he's definitely a player on the decline. [Post edited 6 Jan 12:39]
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| Sorry to Dig up the Davis Going Forward Discussion again.... on 12:49 - Jan 6 with 3686 views | bsw72 |
Question - how is Phillips simoultaneously expected to close down Smith-Rowe in the centre of midfield AND cover the left back position??
To clarify, Davis had got back and was covered by Greaves, but stuck a leg out and gave a penalty away.
It's not about covering defenders, they were in place, it was about Davis making a mistake, which was the poor challenge. |  | | |
| Sorry to Dig up the Davis Going Forward Discussion again.... on 12:50 - Jan 6 with 3652 views | FrimleyBlue |
The whole side spent 90 minutes sticking to the game plan, sticking to the organisational requirements KM asked of them, repeatedly over and over again, sticking to their positions.
Personally, if they start shuffling, it has an effect, players are then out of position, they've dragged someone else over, away from theirs. Instead of going to our left side, gaps would have been open somewhere else. That's why we got ourselves ahead in the first place by remaining very organised throughout the game
As said yesturday, no problem on 70 minutes if you're drawing, but 90 and winning, leaving our left hand side empty was a risk to high to take when 3 points were already on the board imo |  |
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| Sorry to Dig up the Davis Going Forward Discussion again.... on 12:53 - Jan 6 with 3606 views | JakeITFC |
It’s also good play by Fulham - great ball outside to Jimenez who sensed the space was there. I think I agree that I’d like to see maybe Phillips to track Adama and Greaves to follow Jimenez out wide. |  | | |
| Sorry to Dig up the Davis Going Forward Discussion again.... on 12:55 - Jan 6 with 3566 views | BseaBlue |
| Sorry to Dig up the Davis Going Forward Discussion again.... on 12:49 - Jan 6 by bsw72 |
Question - how is Phillips simoultaneously expected to close down Smith-Rowe in the centre of midfield AND cover the left back position??
To clarify, Davis had got back and was covered by Greaves, but stuck a leg out and gave a penalty away.
It's not about covering defenders, they were in place, it was about Davis making a mistake, which was the poor challenge. |
Yes and not a coincidence to me that the tackle was lazy after he has had to recover the length of the pitch.
The poor decision was deciding to bomb forward when defending a lead and as Frimmers says, went against the grain in terms of the rest of the display which was very well disciplined and balanced. [Post edited 6 Jan 12:56]
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| Sorry to Dig up the Davis Going Forward Discussion again.... on 12:56 - Jan 6 with 3549 views | portmanking |
| Sorry to Dig up the Davis Going Forward Discussion again.... on 12:49 - Jan 6 by bsw72 |
Question - how is Phillips simoultaneously expected to close down Smith-Rowe in the centre of midfield AND cover the left back position??
To clarify, Davis had got back and was covered by Greaves, but stuck a leg out and gave a penalty away.
It's not about covering defenders, they were in place, it was about Davis making a mistake, which was the poor challenge. |
Kalvin should've spotted Adama Traore on his shoulder. He wasn't closing down Smith-Rowe whatsoever. If anything, he was just trotting and marking thin air. If he'd dealt with Traore, Greaves could've focused solely on Jimenez. | | | |
| Sorry to Dig up the Davis Going Forward Discussion again.... on 12:57 - Jan 6 with 3531 views | homer_123 |
| Sorry to Dig up the Davis Going Forward Discussion again.... on 12:55 - Jan 6 by BseaBlue |
Yes and not a coincidence to me that the tackle was lazy after he has had to recover the length of the pitch.
The poor decision was deciding to bomb forward when defending a lead and as Frimmers says, went against the grain in terms of the rest of the display which was very well disciplined and balanced. [Post edited 6 Jan 12:56]
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Where I disagree is that is was the wrong decision to bomb forward.
He's nipped in front of Traore and won the ball brilliantly and then supported his teammate.
I've no issue with that, even at that stage of the game.
Both Morsy and Davis made poor challenges - that's it. |  |
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| Sorry to Dig up the Davis Going Forward Discussion again.... on 12:58 - Jan 6 with 3520 views | bsw72 |
| Sorry to Dig up the Davis Going Forward Discussion again.... on 12:50 - Jan 6 by FrimleyBlue |
The whole side spent 90 minutes sticking to the game plan, sticking to the organisational requirements KM asked of them, repeatedly over and over again, sticking to their positions.
Personally, if they start shuffling, it has an effect, players are then out of position, they've dragged someone else over, away from theirs. Instead of going to our left side, gaps would have been open somewhere else. That's why we got ourselves ahead in the first place by remaining very organised throughout the game
As said yesturday, no problem on 70 minutes if you're drawing, but 90 and winning, leaving our left hand side empty was a risk to high to take when 3 points were already on the board imo |
If the issue was Davis being caught out of position I would agree, but he had got back in enough time to hold up Jiminez only to be turned a second time and then mis-time the tackle. What's more frustrating is that Greaves was directly behind and I reckon would have tackled Jiminez had he not been brought down . . .
Davis playing that role IS the game plan, he just made a mistake with the tackle . . . | | | |
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| Sorry to Dig up the Davis Going Forward Discussion again.... on 12:59 - Jan 6 with 3497 views | homer_123 |
| Sorry to Dig up the Davis Going Forward Discussion again.... on 12:58 - Jan 6 by bsw72 |
If the issue was Davis being caught out of position I would agree, but he had got back in enough time to hold up Jiminez only to be turned a second time and then mis-time the tackle. What's more frustrating is that Greaves was directly behind and I reckon would have tackled Jiminez had he not been brought down . . .
Davis playing that role IS the game plan, he just made a mistake with the tackle . . . |
Yup, that, literally is it. | |
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| Sorry to Dig up the Davis Going Forward Discussion again.... on 13:00 - Jan 6 with 3470 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Sorry to Dig up the Davis Going Forward Discussion again.... on 12:56 - Jan 6 by portmanking |
Kalvin should've spotted Adama Traore on his shoulder. He wasn't closing down Smith-Rowe whatsoever. If anything, he was just trotting and marking thin air. If he'd dealt with Traore, Greaves could've focused solely on Jimenez. |
have you ignored morsy who's trotting about and actually closer than phillips was. If morsy comes across and covers, phillips doesn't have to come across etc.
If you;re gonna pick out players, at least pick two that were doing the same thing. | |
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| Sorry to Dig up the Davis Going Forward Discussion again.... on 13:03 - Jan 6 with 3443 views | BseaBlue |
| Sorry to Dig up the Davis Going Forward Discussion again.... on 12:57 - Jan 6 by homer_123 |
Where I disagree is that is was the wrong decision to bomb forward.
He's nipped in front of Traore and won the ball brilliantly and then supported his teammate.
I've no issue with that, even at that stage of the game.
Both Morsy and Davis made poor challenges - that's it. |
Yeah, it is definitely our game plan to make him an out ball which is understandable given how effective it has been for us.
I just think its the 90+ minute. Time to sh1t house the game out and go home with 3 points in the bag. I appreciate that isnt how we play, but it does feel like we contribute to our own issues, especially late in games. | | | |
| Sorry to Dig up the Davis Going Forward Discussion again.... on 13:05 - Jan 6 with 3420 views | BseaBlue |
| Sorry to Dig up the Davis Going Forward Discussion again.... on 12:58 - Jan 6 by bsw72 |
If the issue was Davis being caught out of position I would agree, but he had got back in enough time to hold up Jiminez only to be turned a second time and then mis-time the tackle. What's more frustrating is that Greaves was directly behind and I reckon would have tackled Jiminez had he not been brought down . . .
Davis playing that role IS the game plan, he just made a mistake with the tackle . . . |
If his starting position is at left back though, rather than having to charge back the length of the pitch, do you not feel that might have casused him to have been a bit less rash? | | | |
| Sorry to Dig up the Davis Going Forward Discussion again.... on 13:06 - Jan 6 with 3391 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| Sorry to Dig up the Davis Going Forward Discussion again.... on 12:39 - Jan 6 by portmanking |
At the time, I was really disappointed in Phillips for failing to sniff the danger of Davis being forward in the attack and not having the positional sense to drop in and stop the initial pass.
Watching it again, I'm even more frustrated. I do feel like he's been our biggest waste of money this season. No slight on him as a person or character, but he's definitely a player on the decline. [Post edited 6 Jan 12:39]
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You mean Philips, the only player trying to close in on the man and block the cross - something he was very close to doing. Our CBs positioning is great at that point, which is why it opens up a bit - but that is easy to say as an observer with hindsight. | | | |
| Sorry to Dig up the Davis Going Forward Discussion again.... on 13:07 - Jan 6 with 3384 views | homer_123 |
| Sorry to Dig up the Davis Going Forward Discussion again.... on 13:03 - Jan 6 by BseaBlue |
Yeah, it is definitely our game plan to make him an out ball which is understandable given how effective it has been for us.
I just think its the 90+ minute. Time to sh1t house the game out and go home with 3 points in the bag. I appreciate that isnt how we play, but it does feel like we contribute to our own issues, especially late in games. |
Given he's nicked the ball from Traore and we've got an attack on.
I have no issue with him them getting forward - at that point, difficult to turn back but I understand what you are saying. | |
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| Sorry to Dig up the Davis Going Forward Discussion again.... on 13:07 - Jan 6 with 3375 views | homer_123 |
| Sorry to Dig up the Davis Going Forward Discussion again.... on 13:05 - Jan 6 by BseaBlue |
If his starting position is at left back though, rather than having to charge back the length of the pitch, do you not feel that might have casused him to have been a bit less rash? |
Maybe though what's Morsy's excuse!  | |
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| Sorry to Dig up the Davis Going Forward Discussion again.... on 13:08 - Jan 6 with 3387 views | bsw72 |
| Sorry to Dig up the Davis Going Forward Discussion again.... on 12:56 - Jan 6 by portmanking |
Kalvin should've spotted Adama Traore on his shoulder. He wasn't closing down Smith-Rowe whatsoever. If anything, he was just trotting and marking thin air. If he'd dealt with Traore, Greaves could've focused solely on Jimenez. |
Phillips is covering the space between Smith Rowe and Traore (Morsy and Phillips / Cajuste perform Zonal Marking) in the centre of the field when Smith Rowe receives the ball, Morsy is slow to react to Smith-Rowe so Phillips goes to close him down, Smith-Rowe playes the ball early and Juminez runs on to it. At this point Davis has got back, Greaves and Morsy have covered the space behind Davis and Traore has been left to run into an offside position and as Jiminez cuts back a second time and Davis trips him, even Phillips has covered the run by Smith-Rowe into the penalty area.
I cannot even believe anyone apart from Davis is being called out at fault for that this . . . everyone else did their job, it was just a lazy/tired tackle - a simple mistake from a single player . . . not sure why people are trying to make it out to be a huge tactical failure. | | | |
| Sorry to Dig up the Davis Going Forward Discussion again.... on 13:10 - Jan 6 with 3336 views | BseaBlue |
| Sorry to Dig up the Davis Going Forward Discussion again.... on 13:07 - Jan 6 by homer_123 |
Maybe though what's Morsy's excuse! |
Absolutely none there unfortunately!
Also worth adding that I'd imagine Leif must cover more ground than any other player in the team so not suprising if he does tire and probably why we used to see Greg Leigh come on for the latter part of games. | | | |
| Sorry to Dig up the Davis Going Forward Discussion again.... on 13:11 - Jan 6 with 3316 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| Sorry to Dig up the Davis Going Forward Discussion again.... on 12:56 - Jan 6 by portmanking |
Kalvin should've spotted Adama Traore on his shoulder. He wasn't closing down Smith-Rowe whatsoever. If anything, he was just trotting and marking thin air. If he'd dealt with Traore, Greaves could've focused solely on Jimenez. |
Rewatch the play. At the point the cross is made Philips has closed him down, and isn't far off blocking the cross. | | | |
| Sorry to Dig up the Davis Going Forward Discussion again.... on 13:11 - Jan 6 with 3301 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Sorry to Dig up the Davis Going Forward Discussion again.... on 13:03 - Jan 6 by BseaBlue |
Yeah, it is definitely our game plan to make him an out ball which is understandable given how effective it has been for us.
I just think its the 90+ minute. Time to sh1t house the game out and go home with 3 points in the bag. I appreciate that isnt how we play, but it does feel like we contribute to our own issues, especially late in games. |
This was my issue yesturday
Some people who didn't like Muric passing short and making mistakes despite sticking to the game plan, are the same ones who applaud davis for sticking to the apparent game plan for bombing forwards from left back on 90 minutes..
If Muric should use his head to decide when to pass or not, then Davis has to use his to decide when an overlap run should be made and if he makes them what the risks are should that move breakdown. | |
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| Sorry to Dig up the Davis Going Forward Discussion again.... on 13:13 - Jan 6 with 3276 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| Sorry to Dig up the Davis Going Forward Discussion again.... on 13:08 - Jan 6 by bsw72 |
Phillips is covering the space between Smith Rowe and Traore (Morsy and Phillips / Cajuste perform Zonal Marking) in the centre of the field when Smith Rowe receives the ball, Morsy is slow to react to Smith-Rowe so Phillips goes to close him down, Smith-Rowe playes the ball early and Juminez runs on to it. At this point Davis has got back, Greaves and Morsy have covered the space behind Davis and Traore has been left to run into an offside position and as Jiminez cuts back a second time and Davis trips him, even Phillips has covered the run by Smith-Rowe into the penalty area.
I cannot even believe anyone apart from Davis is being called out at fault for that this . . . everyone else did their job, it was just a lazy/tired tackle - a simple mistake from a single player . . . not sure why people are trying to make it out to be a huge tactical failure. |
Totally this . | | | |
| Sorry to Dig up the Davis Going Forward Discussion again.... on 13:18 - Jan 6 with 3207 views | bsw72 |
| Sorry to Dig up the Davis Going Forward Discussion again.... on 12:57 - Jan 6 by homer_123 |
Where I disagree is that is was the wrong decision to bomb forward.
He's nipped in front of Traore and won the ball brilliantly and then supported his teammate.
I've no issue with that, even at that stage of the game.
Both Morsy and Davis made poor challenges - that's it. |
Just to add, if Davis had not made that run then I doubt Clarke would have had the shot, as Davis took a covering defender with him, else Clarke would have had to beat two players and not had the space. | | | |
| Sorry to Dig up the Davis Going Forward Discussion again.... on 13:21 - Jan 6 with 3157 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Sorry to Dig up the Davis Going Forward Discussion again.... on 13:18 - Jan 6 by bsw72 |
Just to add, if Davis had not made that run then I doubt Clarke would have had the shot, as Davis took a covering defender with him, else Clarke would have had to beat two players and not had the space. |
Whilst true
If Davis drops back, Clarke had al hamadi in space beside him, so could have passed it to him, etc etc. | |
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| Sorry to Dig up the Davis Going Forward Discussion again.... on 13:26 - Jan 6 with 3100 views | bsw72 |
| Sorry to Dig up the Davis Going Forward Discussion again.... on 13:21 - Jan 6 by FrimleyBlue |
Whilst true
If Davis drops back, Clarke had al hamadi in space beside him, so could have passed it to him, etc etc. |
Not really, Smith-Rowe has tracked back with Al-Hamadi and Jack Taylor is also marked - the shot is really the only option. | | | |
| Sorry to Dig up the Davis Going Forward Discussion again.... on 13:28 - Jan 6 with 3090 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
The main point is it was a poor tackle.
He was back in position, it wasn't a last ditch lunge.
He should have just stood his ground, rather than throwing his leg out. |  |
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| Sorry to Dig up the Davis Going Forward Discussion again.... on 13:28 - Jan 6 with 3078 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Sorry to Dig up the Davis Going Forward Discussion again.... on 13:26 - Jan 6 by bsw72 |
Not really, Smith-Rowe has tracked back with Al-Hamadi and Jack Taylor is also marked - the shot is really the only option. |
Nah just re watched it, al hamadi is free besides clarke at the point davis goes on the overlap. 2:41 on the highlights.
BTW the shot IS the right option as it was played because of Davis's run btw, I just mean, IF davis drops back which imo he should have done instead of the overlap, then clarke still had an option. [Post edited 6 Jan 13:32]
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