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Prompted by a question from VT on Shawsey's NZ thread, who would yours be? Leaders of country, party or movement. Mine -
1. Nelson Mandela 2. Mahatma Gandhi 3. Martin Luther King 4. Winston Churchill 5. Franklin D. Roosevelt 6. Keir Hardie 7. Harold Wilson 8. Mikhall Gorbachev 9. Jacinda Ardern 10. Open for choice of wildcards - Greta Thunberg (OK, not politician, but trying to influence all current & future politicians on biggest threat to humankind); Salvador Allende (heroic failure?); Benazir Bhutto (flawed, but then aren't most?); John Smith, the late Labour Party leader.
Although I said "of all time", my own historical knowedge isn't really up to doing that, so I've stuck to 20th & 21st centuries. If Guthers or anyone else wants to bump mine down the list with Julius Caesar, Alexander the Great or whoever, feel free!
Top 10 political leaders of all time? on 11:04 - Jun 14 by footers
Is this just a good eggs top 10? A lot of the 'best' political operators were of course complete bastards.
Yes, fair point - this thread was prompted by discussion of Jacinda Ardern on Shawsey's NZ thread, so I should probably have called it "best" political leaders in our various opinions.
In the current climate I think you'll find some people will find a number of those problematic. Looking at historical people through a contemporary lens will also bring up these issues.
SB
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Top 10 political leaders of all time? on 11:13 - Jun 14 with 3643 views
Top 10 political leaders of all time? on 11:10 - Jun 14 by StokieBlue
In the current climate I think you'll find some people will find a number of those problematic. Looking at historical people through a contemporary lens will also bring up these issues.
SB
Sure. As I said most are flawed, and some of those I included for their influence at particular times - eg Churchill for his leadership during WW2.
Top 10 political leaders of all time? on 11:13 - Jun 14 by Ryorry
Sure. As I said most are flawed, and some of those I included for their influence at particular times - eg Churchill for his leadership during WW2.
Many will also find Gandhi problematic given his views in early life and his "testing" of his sexual abstention in old age.
Certainly you can cite periods in lives like you have but at the moment people seem to be taking the whole life and highlighting the wrongs. Very few people are going to be deemed acceptable to the masses under that criteria. It's understandable though.
SB
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Top 10 political leaders of all time? on 11:18 - Jun 14 with 3605 views
I think Ataturk could go in there, as one of the most successful leaders to bring their country away from colonial powers. And also for his secular reforms. He also seemed to be universally acclaimed (except by people who called him a Mason and a homosexual..) even by his rivals
Top 10 political leaders of all time? on 11:19 - Jun 14 by Wacko
I think Ataturk could go in there, as one of the most successful leaders to bring their country away from colonial powers. And also for his secular reforms. He also seemed to be universally acclaimed (except by people who called him a Mason and a homosexual..) even by his rivals
Going further back, Suleman the Magnificent - his legacy in legal reforms can still be seen in various parts of the world. Also a great patron of the arts and education, very keen on religious tolerance and diversity at time when most of Europe was setting fire to each other over their views on the Eucharist and spoke multiple languages. This is just stuff I can think of off the top of my head,I shall await Guffers to correct me...
[Post edited 14 Jun 2020 11:37]
I'm one of the people who was blamed for getting Paul Cook sacked. PM for the full post.
Top 10 political leaders of all time? on 11:17 - Jun 14 by StokieBlue
Many will also find Gandhi problematic given his views in early life and his "testing" of his sexual abstention in old age.
Certainly you can cite periods in lives like you have but at the moment people seem to be taking the whole life and highlighting the wrongs. Very few people are going to be deemed acceptable to the masses under that criteria. It's understandable though.
SB
Depends on the criteria you use to determine 'best', if you use virtue and ethical correctness then eventually all leaders look suspect (which is why Mandela probably deserves to be top of the list as he was so adamant in telling everyone 'I am no saint'). However, if you use the ability to influence those around them, to induce a large following to agree or at least allow to their policies you have something closer to politics in the scientific sense - but you might find Hitler included...
For what it is worth I would put Marcus Aurelius and Clement Attlee on the list. maybe Cromwell and Thomas Jefferson too.
Top 10 political leaders of all time? on 11:30 - Jun 14 by Wacko
Yup, by all accounts the victim of a bad PR campaign by his opponents
It is the tragic lot of empire builders, they bust a gut establishing reforms in medical care and education but all people remember are the rapes and murders...
Top 10 political leaders of all time? on 11:26 - Jun 14 by WeWereZombies
Depends on the criteria you use to determine 'best', if you use virtue and ethical correctness then eventually all leaders look suspect (which is why Mandela probably deserves to be top of the list as he was so adamant in telling everyone 'I am no saint'). However, if you use the ability to influence those around them, to induce a large following to agree or at least allow to their policies you have something closer to politics in the scientific sense - but you might find Hitler included...
For what it is worth I would put Marcus Aurelius and Clement Attlee on the list. maybe Cromwell and Thomas Jefferson too.
My reasons for citing Jacinda Ardern on the NZ thread were that not only does she always seem to make the right decisions (from what I've seen - there may be things I'm unaware of) but for the right reasons. She sets high ethical standards, consideration of the future is a key part of her thinking and she clearly has the ability to empathise with other people living very different lives in very different situations, in spades. Contrast with the uncaring & short-term selfishness of so many UK politicians.
Obviously most of the others on my list were much older, so some might say simply had a longer timespan for flaws to emerge!
Top 10 political leaders of all time? on 11:26 - Jun 14 by WeWereZombies
Depends on the criteria you use to determine 'best', if you use virtue and ethical correctness then eventually all leaders look suspect (which is why Mandela probably deserves to be top of the list as he was so adamant in telling everyone 'I am no saint'). However, if you use the ability to influence those around them, to induce a large following to agree or at least allow to their policies you have something closer to politics in the scientific sense - but you might find Hitler included...
For what it is worth I would put Marcus Aurelius and Clement Attlee on the list. maybe Cromwell and Thomas Jefferson too.
Which Cromwell - Thomas or Oliver?
I'm one of the people who was blamed for getting Paul Cook sacked. PM for the full post.
Top 10 political leaders of all time? on 11:36 - Jun 14 by solemio
Harold Wilson? Why?
That was probably my most personal one. His very decent leadership & PM-ship overall wouldn't be described as standout by most. However, his creation of the OU was an absolute nugget of gold which led to the concept of "life-long learning" being translated into reality, opening doors for millions of people (including me) to new jobs, careers, personal fulfillment, new found confidence - and simply suddenly discovering that they actually enjoyed learning & finding out about stuff they hadn't even realised they might be interested in!
Jenny Lee played a massive part in translating Wilson's vision of it into reality, so a big-up for her too ðŸ‘ðŸ»
Top 10 political leaders of all time? on 11:26 - Jun 14 by WeWereZombies
Depends on the criteria you use to determine 'best', if you use virtue and ethical correctness then eventually all leaders look suspect (which is why Mandela probably deserves to be top of the list as he was so adamant in telling everyone 'I am no saint'). However, if you use the ability to influence those around them, to induce a large following to agree or at least allow to their policies you have something closer to politics in the scientific sense - but you might find Hitler included...
For what it is worth I would put Marcus Aurelius and Clement Attlee on the list. maybe Cromwell and Thomas Jefferson too.
Upvoted for Marcus Aurelius in particular.
Arguably the greatest influence of all political leaders.
Pronouns: He/Him
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Top 10 political leaders of all time? on 12:00 - Jun 14 with 3431 views
Top 10 political leaders of all time? on 11:38 - Jun 14 by Ryorry
My reasons for citing Jacinda Ardern on the NZ thread were that not only does she always seem to make the right decisions (from what I've seen - there may be things I'm unaware of) but for the right reasons. She sets high ethical standards, consideration of the future is a key part of her thinking and she clearly has the ability to empathise with other people living very different lives in very different situations, in spades. Contrast with the uncaring & short-term selfishness of so many UK politicians.
Obviously most of the others on my list were much older, so some might say simply had a longer timespan for flaws to emerge!
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