| Sweden off the quarantine list 18:30 - Sep 10 with 3276 views | Trequartista |
Their infection rates must be dropping whilst ours increase. Can we learn anything from them? |  |
| |  |
| Sweden off the quarantine list on 18:32 - Sep 10 with 2209 views | Guthrum |
Yes - that they're probably behind us in the cycle. Our levels dropped, then went back up again. So might theirs yet. |  |
| |
| Sweden off the quarantine list on 18:36 - Sep 10 with 2194 views | Trequartista |
| Sweden off the quarantine list on 18:32 - Sep 10 by Guthrum |
Yes - that they're probably behind us in the cycle. Our levels dropped, then went back up again. So might theirs yet. |
So have ours gone up again because we are just in a point of an inevitable cycle or because we relaxed restrictions? | |
| |
| Yes, we can.... on 18:36 - Sep 10 with 2200 views | Bloots |
....we should be a country that's twice our size with 16% of our population.
Difficult to organise at such short notice though. |  |
| TWTD Leadership Group/Elite Level Supporter/Anti-Bullying Crusader |
| |
| Yes, we can.... on 18:43 - Sep 10 with 2167 views | Trequartista |
| Yes, we can.... on 18:36 - Sep 10 by Bloots |
....we should be a country that's twice our size with 16% of our population.
Difficult to organise at such short notice though. |
Appreciate all comparisons are not ceteris paribus, but differences can be factored in. I think it would be a mistake to ignore evidence from countries opting for different methods to the path we've taken. | |
| |
| Yes, we can.... on 18:47 - Sep 10 with 2150 views | bournemouthblue |
| Yes, we can.... on 18:36 - Sep 10 by Bloots |
....we should be a country that's twice our size with 16% of our population.
Difficult to organise at such short notice though. |
And a far superior health system I should imagine? |  |
| |
| Agreed, their infection rate per million is..... on 18:48 - Sep 10 with 2142 views | Bloots |
| Yes, we can.... on 18:43 - Sep 10 by Trequartista |
Appreciate all comparisons are not ceteris paribus, but differences can be factored in. I think it would be a mistake to ignore evidence from countries opting for different methods to the path we've taken. |
.....62% higher than ours. | |
| TWTD Leadership Group/Elite Level Supporter/Anti-Bullying Crusader |
| |
| Agreed, their infection rate per million is..... on 19:01 - Sep 10 with 2113 views | Trequartista |
| Agreed, their infection rate per million is..... on 18:48 - Sep 10 by Bloots |
.....62% higher than ours. |
It is currently lower and falling, whilst ours is rising. I am guessing your figures are for the overall pandemic? If true that's not unexpected for a strategy that involved some herd immunity. I'm fairly certain they didn't suffer 62% more deaths per capita.
I'm a neutral punter here by the way so i appreciate any facts for or against and want to gain knowledge without getting into a political quagmire with masks and covidiots etc [Post edited 10 Sep 2020 19:02]
| |
| |
| Yes, we can.... on 19:01 - Sep 10 with 2111 views | gordon |
| Yes, we can.... on 18:47 - Sep 10 by bournemouthblue |
And a far superior health system I should imagine? |
Add a far stronger social safety net and a much healthier population, definitely lots to learn from the Scandinavians.
I'd choose the Norwegian death rate though, if I had to choose. |  | | |
Login to get fewer ads
| Yes, we can.... on 19:15 - Sep 10 with 2077 views | jeera |
| Yes, we can.... on 18:47 - Sep 10 by bournemouthblue |
And a far superior health system I should imagine? |
To me, this has always stood out as being most significant:
"More than half of Swedish households are single-person, the highest proportion in the EU."
https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20190821-why-so-many-young-swedes-live-alon
It's been widely reported before that many infections are passed on within the household, which is obvious really, if any member has been in contact whilst out and about then brought it home. |  |
| |
| Yeah I'm neutral too.... on 19:28 - Sep 10 with 2044 views | Bloots |
| Agreed, their infection rate per million is..... on 19:01 - Sep 10 by Trequartista |
It is currently lower and falling, whilst ours is rising. I am guessing your figures are for the overall pandemic? If true that's not unexpected for a strategy that involved some herd immunity. I'm fairly certain they didn't suffer 62% more deaths per capita.
I'm a neutral punter here by the way so i appreciate any facts for or against and want to gain knowledge without getting into a political quagmire with masks and covidiots etc [Post edited 10 Sep 2020 19:02]
|
....and the last thing I want is one of those god awful political arguments!
Their death rate is a bit better than ours, but still pretty grim.
As noted, it's all cyclical innit.
I use this site for figures and comparisons:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ | |
| TWTD Leadership Group/Elite Level Supporter/Anti-Bullying Crusader |
| |
| Something a bit suspicious on 19:37 - Sep 10 with 2032 views | Guthrum |
| Sweden off the quarantine list on 18:36 - Sep 10 by Trequartista |
So have ours gone up again because we are just in a point of an inevitable cycle or because we relaxed restrictions? |
I'm just crunching some numbers as part of my reply to you, when I noticed an interesting thing. On 4th July, Sweden's new cases per 100,000 population figure very suddenly drops from a level of approximately 6 to 15 (average 9.20 1st June to 3rd July) down to between 3.5 and under one thereafter (average 2.32 out to 9th Sep) - with a few minor outliers in either case.
What happened on that date? Was there a change in the way the Swedes classified infections, or maybe a cut in the number of tests? Rather suggests it's an accounting thing, not a quite literally overnight improvement in actual infection rates. [Post edited 10 Sep 2020 19:41]
| |
| |
| And herein lies the issue with..... on 19:51 - Sep 10 with 1987 views | Bloots |
| Something a bit suspicious on 19:37 - Sep 10 by Guthrum |
I'm just crunching some numbers as part of my reply to you, when I noticed an interesting thing. On 4th July, Sweden's new cases per 100,000 population figure very suddenly drops from a level of approximately 6 to 15 (average 9.20 1st June to 3rd July) down to between 3.5 and under one thereafter (average 2.32 out to 9th Sep) - with a few minor outliers in either case.
What happened on that date? Was there a change in the way the Swedes classified infections, or maybe a cut in the number of tests? Rather suggests it's an accounting thing, not a quite literally overnight improvement in actual infection rates. [Post edited 10 Sep 2020 19:41]
|
.....comparing countries.
They all report things differently.
It's a bleedin minefield me old mucker. | |
| TWTD Leadership Group/Elite Level Supporter/Anti-Bullying Crusader |
| |
| Sweden off the quarantine list on 20:28 - Sep 10 with 1908 views | Swansea_Blue |
If it helps, the general consensus by people who know about thse things is that Sweden have done pretty sh*t. I'm not sure it's a benchmark we should be aspiring to.
They may not have had a government enforced lock down, but people locked themselves down by and large, so the economic hit was as bad as Nordic neighbours who did have official lockdowns. Whilst their covid-19 rates are higher than their Nordic neighbours.
So yes, in short there is a lesson. Don't be like Sweden.
Granted, there is an argument that we'd be better off acting like Sweden, but that's because everyone else looks better when you're near the bottom of the pile. Aspiring for Sweden's outcomes would be like wanting Jewell back now because PRP is worse. |  |
| |
| Yes, we can.... on 20:43 - Sep 10 with 1878 views | Dyland |
| Yes, we can.... on 18:43 - Sep 10 by Trequartista |
Appreciate all comparisons are not ceteris paribus, but differences can be factored in. I think it would be a mistake to ignore evidence from countries opting for different methods to the path we've taken. |
What are the differences between Sweden and the UK?
I'd love to see you factor these in to whatever figures you're looking at...?
P.S. I agree with the general sentiment you make, though why you think anyone is ignoring evidence globally is beyond me. |  |
| |
| so basically on 20:45 - Sep 10 with 1860 views | Keno |
| Yes, we can.... on 18:36 - Sep 10 by Bloots |
....we should be a country that's twice our size with 16% of our population.
Difficult to organise at such short notice though. |
you are saying we should cull all but 8% of the population then we would be the same people to land ration as the swedes? |  |
| |
| so basically on 20:46 - Sep 10 with 1851 views | jeera |
| so basically on 20:45 - Sep 10 by Keno |
you are saying we should cull all but 8% of the population then we would be the same people to land ration as the swedes? |
May I be the one to choose please? | |
| |
| Sweden off the quarantine list on 20:48 - Sep 10 with 1855 views | Darth_Koont |
Firstly where people in Sweden actually live is mainland European population density. Rather than an even spread of people, almost the entire top half of the country and much of the space in between the cities and towns in the south is uninhabited forest and lakes, not even farmland.
I'd expect better from the New Scientist. The author hasn't really scratched beneath his own initial point of view. The care homes weren't managed well and that's freely admitted but that's after the fact to a large extent. The main issue in Sweden compared to the other Scandinavian countries was that Stockholm was hit proportionally as hard as London and New York. These initial large outbreaks have a huge effect not only on the country results but as major cities also the spread within its borders. In Malmö with Copenhagen as the hub over the water there's been Danish levels of the spread.
How well Sweden has handled it and where the mistakes have been made will come out over time. But comparing it to the other Scandinavian countries is way off because of a very different starting point. |  |
| |
| Yes, we can.... on 21:03 - Sep 10 with 1816 views | Sharkey |
| Yes, we can.... on 19:01 - Sep 10 by gordon |
Add a far stronger social safety net and a much healthier population, definitely lots to learn from the Scandinavians.
I'd choose the Norwegian death rate though, if I had to choose. |
For a bit or perspective, the Swedish death rate versus the Norwegian should be put in the context of the age of the population.
Most of the deaths in Sweden and in Norway have been among the very old, mostly in outbreaks in care homes. 5.2% of the Swedish population is over 80 years old. For Norway, that figure is 0.23%. As Sweden has a substantially bigger population, Sweden had thirty or forty times more over-80s than Norway when the virus arrived.
These charts aren't exactly like-for-like, but they give some idea.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/521717/sweden-population-by-age/
https://www.statista.com/statistics/586378/total-population-by-age-group-in-norw |  | | |
| Sweden off the quarantine list on 21:10 - Sep 10 with 1806 views | reusersfreekicks |
How to make cars and decent pop tunes |  | | |
| Yes, we can.... on 21:14 - Sep 10 with 1794 views | gordon |
Does this also explain the difference in death rates between Sweden and Denmark? | | | |
| Yes, we can.... on 21:35 - Sep 10 with 1765 views | Sharkey |
| Yes, we can.... on 21:14 - Sep 10 by gordon |
Does this also explain the difference in death rates between Sweden and Denmark? |
No, - Sweden and Denmark have very similar populations in term of age-spread.
The Swedish figures are two or three times higher than Denmark's largely because the figures were very very high in Stockholm and the 'county' just south of Stockholm. The death rate there was something like ten times what it was anywhere else in Sweden. This was blamed originally on skiers returning from half-term break in the Italian Alps followed by 'bad routines' at the care homes.
In the Öresund region (Copenhagen, Malmö, Helsingborg) the figures have been slightly lower on the Swedish side of the bridge. (And at the moment Copenhagen is experiencing a notable spike, sadly.) | | | |
| Yes, we can.... on 21:55 - Sep 10 with 1744 views | Sharkey |
| Yes, we can.... on 21:35 - Sep 10 by Sharkey |
No, - Sweden and Denmark have very similar populations in term of age-spread.
The Swedish figures are two or three times higher than Denmark's largely because the figures were very very high in Stockholm and the 'county' just south of Stockholm. The death rate there was something like ten times what it was anywhere else in Sweden. This was blamed originally on skiers returning from half-term break in the Italian Alps followed by 'bad routines' at the care homes.
In the Öresund region (Copenhagen, Malmö, Helsingborg) the figures have been slightly lower on the Swedish side of the bridge. (And at the moment Copenhagen is experiencing a notable spike, sadly.) |
Ooops, the observant reader will notice that my original figures were grossly exaggerated. Some very poor graph reading - My apologies!. I realised this when I went to check the Danish figures. generally cons Nevertheless, the Swedish mortality rates are mitigated to some extent by having a substantially larger population of very old people than Norway does. Sweden also claims that it was far quicker than other countries to record Covid deaths not in hospitals, though I'm not sure this is in comparison to its direct neighbours. As the young people say, my bad. | | | |
| Sweden off the quarantine list on 22:22 - Sep 10 with 1708 views | vapour_trail |
| Sweden off the quarantine list on 21:10 - Sep 10 by reusersfreekicks |
How to make cars and decent pop tunes |
Are we talking ace of base or roxette here? |  |
| |
| Sweden off the quarantine list on 22:33 - Sep 10 with 1687 views | reusersfreekicks |
| Sweden off the quarantine list on 22:22 - Sep 10 by vapour_trail |
Are we talking ace of base or roxette here? |
Oh come on. The winner takes it all | | | |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
