| Lagos' solution to the vaccine passport 09:29 - Feb 25 with 2631 views | bluelagos |
So we need to do a few things, namely
Encourage people to get vaccinated
Provide safe ways for those vaccinated but still 'reluctant' to venture out to hospitality
Not discrimate against people unable or scared to get vaccinated...
So you are a country pub. Why not put on a "green" day or days where only those with proof of vaccination will be allowed entry. Cinemas coulld do the same for say 1 screen.
If these prove super popular, more days or screens go green. So long as there are days/pubs/screens available for green and non green days, everyone is happy/catered for? [Post edited 25 Feb 2021 9:42]
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| Lagos' solution to the vaccine passport on 09:34 - Feb 25 with 1060 views | StokieBlue |
What if people who have had the vaccine are scared to go into pubs on days when there will be people who haven't had the vaccine? In those cases you are then simply moving the restrictions from people who haven't had the vaccines to people who have had the vaccines.
I'm not sure you can make policy for people who are scared about having the vaccine whilst not considering those who are scared of being around people who haven't had the vaccine.
SB [Post edited 25 Feb 2021 9:45]
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Lagos' solution to the vaccine passport on 09:34 - Feb 25 with 1058 views | chicoazul |
Vaccine passports are an absolutely despicable, racist, classist, and typically modern-Britain idea. I’m sure they’ll get loads of support on twtd. |  |
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| Lagos' solution to the vaccine passport on 09:35 - Feb 25 with 1054 views | ElderGrizzly |
And what about those unvaccinated potentially passing Covid on, along their journeys or in the cinema/pub to others and the workers?
The situation we will likely have is vaccine or negative test for a few months at least |  | | |
| Lagos' solution to the vaccine passport on 09:35 - Feb 25 with 1056 views | Cotty |
It's not discrimination if you are choosing* not to do something that would give you more freedom. Without the vaccine we'd be in perpetual lockdown/relaxation cycles, the current relaxations are only going to be sustainable if people take up the vaccine and soon. The vaccine should be seen as the route to those relaxations and more personal freedom for the individual. Plus, it is better for everyone if there are strong incentives for individuals to vaccinate.
*Usual caveat that of course there are people who are medically unable to take vaccines. The proportion of those is absolutely tiny though. |  | | |
| Lagos' solution to the vaccine passport on 09:36 - Feb 25 with 1047 views | hype313 |
| Lagos' solution to the vaccine passport on 09:34 - Feb 25 by StokieBlue |
What if people who have had the vaccine are scared to go into pubs on days when there will be people who haven't had the vaccine? In those cases you are then simply moving the restrictions from people who haven't had the vaccines to people who have had the vaccines.
I'm not sure you can make policy for people who are scared about having the vaccine whilst not considering those who are scared of being around people who haven't had the vaccine.
SB [Post edited 25 Feb 2021 9:45]
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Why would you be scared of someone who hasn't had the vaccine if you have had it? |  |
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| Lagos' solution to the vaccine passport on 09:37 - Feb 25 with 1038 views | StokieBlue |
| Lagos' solution to the vaccine passport on 09:34 - Feb 25 by chicoazul |
Vaccine passports are an absolutely despicable, racist, classist, and typically modern-Britain idea. I’m sure they’ll get loads of support on twtd. |
How is it racist and classist?
Everyone has access to the vaccine regardless of race or class.
There is a debate to be had around how we open up but I don't think those two specific claims can be lobbied at the debate.
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Lagos' solution to the vaccine passport on 09:39 - Feb 25 with 1018 views | Cotty |
| Lagos' solution to the vaccine passport on 09:34 - Feb 25 by chicoazul |
Vaccine passports are an absolutely despicable, racist, classist, and typically modern-Britain idea. I’m sure they’ll get loads of support on twtd. |
Are driving licenses despicable, racist, classist and typically modern-Britain? It's just a document to say that you are qualified to do certain things safely. | | | |
| Lagos' solution to the vaccine passport on 09:39 - Feb 25 with 1021 views | StokieBlue |
| Lagos' solution to the vaccine passport on 09:36 - Feb 25 by hype313 |
Why would you be scared of someone who hasn't had the vaccine if you have had it? |
Why would one be scared to have the vaccine?
If policy can be made for one illogical position why can't it be made for the inverse illogical position?
Of course there is the possibility of unvaccinated people having a higher viral load and thus possible mutations which could be passed on to vaccinated people.
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Lagos' solution to the vaccine passport on 09:40 - Feb 25 with 1013 views | chicoazul |
| Lagos' solution to the vaccine passport on 09:37 - Feb 25 by StokieBlue |
How is it racist and classist?
Everyone has access to the vaccine regardless of race or class.
There is a debate to be had around how we open up but I don't think those two specific claims can be lobbied at the debate.
SB |
Which people tend to be shy of having the vaccine? Or don’t want it for religious or cultural reasons? The age of well-actually hyper reason is about to reach its apex as we all have to show our papers, please to go see the latest Fast and Furious film. | |
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| Lagos' solution to the vaccine passport on 09:40 - Feb 25 with 1010 views | giant_stow |
| Lagos' solution to the vaccine passport on 09:37 - Feb 25 by StokieBlue |
How is it racist and classist?
Everyone has access to the vaccine regardless of race or class.
There is a debate to be had around how we open up but I don't think those two specific claims can be lobbied at the debate.
SB |
... Vaccine passports aren't a particularly British idea either are they? Thought every country was hmming and ahhing about that. |  |
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| Lagos' solution to the vaccine passport on 09:40 - Feb 25 with 1007 views | bluelagos |
| Lagos' solution to the vaccine passport on 09:34 - Feb 25 by StokieBlue |
What if people who have had the vaccine are scared to go into pubs on days when there will be people who haven't had the vaccine? In those cases you are then simply moving the restrictions from people who haven't had the vaccines to people who have had the vaccines.
I'm not sure you can make policy for people who are scared about having the vaccine whilst not considering those who are scared of being around people who haven't had the vaccine.
SB [Post edited 25 Feb 2021 9:45]
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Sticking with your first point, that is what I am trying to address. If you are vaccinated and dont wish to sit indoors with people who are not, you go to the cinema and visit the green screen. Or the pub/cafe on green days. | |
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| Lagos' solution to the vaccine passport on 09:42 - Feb 25 with 1000 views | StokieBlue |
| Lagos' solution to the vaccine passport on 09:40 - Feb 25 by chicoazul |
Which people tend to be shy of having the vaccine? Or don’t want it for religious or cultural reasons? The age of well-actually hyper reason is about to reach its apex as we all have to show our papers, please to go see the latest Fast and Furious film. |
That's a personal choice though, it's not discriminatory if someone has the same right as everyone else and makes the personal choice not to exercise that right.
You should be focusing on educating the cohorts you are citing in order to increase vaccine uptake, not cite discrimination.
What religious or cultural reasons which are based in fact are there against vaccination?
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Lagos' solution to the vaccine passport on 09:42 - Feb 25 with 998 views | chicoazul |
| Lagos' solution to the vaccine passport on 09:40 - Feb 25 by bluelagos |
Sticking with your first point, that is what I am trying to address. If you are vaccinated and dont wish to sit indoors with people who are not, you go to the cinema and visit the green screen. Or the pub/cafe on green days. |
“No blacks gays or Irish” | |
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| Lagos' solution to the vaccine passport on 09:42 - Feb 25 with 997 views | bluelagos |
| Lagos' solution to the vaccine passport on 09:40 - Feb 25 by bluelagos |
Sticking with your first point, that is what I am trying to address. If you are vaccinated and dont wish to sit indoors with people who are not, you go to the cinema and visit the green screen. Or the pub/cafe on green days. |
Just edited the OP to make that clearer. | |
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| Lagos' solution to the vaccine passport on 09:43 - Feb 25 with 994 views | chicoazul |
| Lagos' solution to the vaccine passport on 09:39 - Feb 25 by Cotty |
Are driving licenses despicable, racist, classist and typically modern-Britain? It's just a document to say that you are qualified to do certain things safely. |
No. | |
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| Lagos' solution to the vaccine passport on 09:43 - Feb 25 with 992 views | hype313 |
| Lagos' solution to the vaccine passport on 09:40 - Feb 25 by chicoazul |
Which people tend to be shy of having the vaccine? Or don’t want it for religious or cultural reasons? The age of well-actually hyper reason is about to reach its apex as we all have to show our papers, please to go see the latest Fast and Furious film. |
Also, what if you are trying for a baby? which you have been told by Doctors it's not recommended to have the vaccine, does that mean you can't go out for a meal or the Cinema?
Look, I'm pro vaccine, looking forward to getting my jab, can understand passports for international travel, but I'm struggling with the idea of asking people for papers when entering a pub. [Post edited 25 Feb 2021 9:44]
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| Lagos' solution to the vaccine passport on 09:44 - Feb 25 with 987 views | chicoazul |
| Lagos' solution to the vaccine passport on 09:42 - Feb 25 by StokieBlue |
That's a personal choice though, it's not discriminatory if someone has the same right as everyone else and makes the personal choice not to exercise that right.
You should be focusing on educating the cohorts you are citing in order to increase vaccine uptake, not cite discrimination.
What religious or cultural reasons which are based in fact are there against vaccination?
SB |
“Based in fact” there we go. | |
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| Lagos' solution to the vaccine passport on 09:44 - Feb 25 with 988 views | NewcyBlue |
| Lagos' solution to the vaccine passport on 09:34 - Feb 25 by chicoazul |
Vaccine passports are an absolutely despicable, racist, classist, and typically modern-Britain idea. I’m sure they’ll get loads of support on twtd. |
Most ports ask to see proof of Yellow Fever vaccination. We all carry a Yellow Fever vaccine card.
I joined a ship in West Africa and they required a Cholera vaccine card.
It’s pretty common for worldwide travel. |  |
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| Lagos' solution to the vaccine passport on 09:45 - Feb 25 with 978 views | StokieBlue |
| Lagos' solution to the vaccine passport on 09:40 - Feb 25 by bluelagos |
Sticking with your first point, that is what I am trying to address. If you are vaccinated and dont wish to sit indoors with people who are not, you go to the cinema and visit the green screen. Or the pub/cafe on green days. |
That's still creating a two tier system though, just the inverse of the vaccine passport one.
Why should people who have been vaccinated only be allowed to feel safe indoors in venues on certain days?
I am just trying to show that if you look at this from the other perspective very similar arguments can be made and thus it's really not going to be an easy debate over the next few weeks or months.
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Lagos' solution to the vaccine passport on 09:46 - Feb 25 with 967 views | bluelagos |
| Lagos' solution to the vaccine passport on 09:42 - Feb 25 by chicoazul |
“No blacks gays or Irish” |
I would/will have no issues socialising with unvaccinated people, but many will. That will be based on fear and to be fair, a real one given the vaccinations are only around 90% effective | |
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| Lagos' solution to the vaccine passport on 09:47 - Feb 25 with 963 views | chicoazul |
| Lagos' solution to the vaccine passport on 09:44 - Feb 25 by NewcyBlue |
Most ports ask to see proof of Yellow Fever vaccination. We all carry a Yellow Fever vaccine card.
I joined a ship in West Africa and they required a Cholera vaccine card.
It’s pretty common for worldwide travel. |
No doubt. | |
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| Lagos' solution to the vaccine passport on 09:47 - Feb 25 with 964 views | Cotty |
| Lagos' solution to the vaccine passport on 09:36 - Feb 25 by hype313 |
Why would you be scared of someone who hasn't had the vaccine if you have had it? |
This is a common misconception which I suspect is widely held. The vaccine, of course, does not give 100% protection, and it is perfectly possible to catch Covid and even become seriously ill even having had both jabs.
The difficult sell around vaccines is essentially that an individual having the vaccine is more useful to the population than it is to them. Of course they give a degree of protection against serious disease, but the most useful part of vaccines is that they should (hopefully) reduce transmission sufficiently that we can get R<1 without restrictions.
However, if you are vaccinated but walk into a packed pub full of unvaccinated individuals, that is absolutely putting you at risk.
I predict another spike later in the year, unrelated to relaxations, when vaccinated people start to ignore the rules because they are "protected". | | | |
| Lagos' solution to the vaccine passport on 09:48 - Feb 25 with 955 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
Will they be called 'untermensch days?' |  |
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| Lagos' solution to the vaccine passport on 09:49 - Feb 25 with 947 views | Cotty |
| Lagos' solution to the vaccine passport on 09:43 - Feb 25 by chicoazul |
No. |
There are lower take ups of driving licenses in the same groups you cite. And you have to pay to get a driving license. Vaccination is free. | | | |
| Lagos' solution to the vaccine passport on 09:50 - Feb 25 with 941 views | StokieBlue |
| Lagos' solution to the vaccine passport on 09:44 - Feb 25 by chicoazul |
“Based in fact” there we go. |
You've still not said how it's discriminatory given the cohorts you've cited have access to the same things as everyone else.
OK what religious and cultural concerns are there that aren't based in fact? I am sure you can list them easily as you claim they are prominent.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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