| Well I haven't got off my bum to protest many times before, but I will be now 12:11 - Mar 17 with 1711 views | Ryorry |
Because the removal of our right to protest about the removal of our right to protest is the most fundamentally anti-democratic, extremist, devious, authoritarian, Machiavellian coup in the UK for a C. And they can't arrest us all.
The Policing Bill was passed last night by a majority of 96 (due to some MPs missing votes & others, notably the DUP, abstaining), despite David Lammy's excellent fighting speach against it). Here are the figures -
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| Well I haven't got off my bum to protest many times before, but I will be now on 12:24 - Mar 17 with 1378 views | Darth_Koont |
If only there were a national political organisation that could have been all over this in the week leading up to the vote. An organisation that would forcibly oppose it and protest using its access to media platforms rather than quietly slide from abstention to opposition the day before the vote and based on public reaction to a badly policed vigil.
But clearly that’s pie in the sky. |  |
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| Well I haven't got off my bum to protest many times before, but I will be now on 12:36 - Mar 17 with 1333 views | J2BLUE |
BJ is their PM, that's sort of how it works.
On the more important point, I completely agree. As Bankster said, Labour might have voted against it but they won't repeal it. Really is now or never to get it reversed. |  |
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| Well I haven't got off my bum to protest many times before, but I will be now on 13:44 - Mar 17 with 1207 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
hat's the exact nature of the anti-protest legislation? From the media coverage I've just been looking through the detail seems a bit sketchy?
Before anyone jumps in, I'm not here to defend it, I just wanted to understand what is being put into law? |  | | |
| Well I haven't got off my bum to protest many times before, but I will be now on 16:14 - Mar 17 with 1103 views | Charlie_pl_baxter |
| Well I haven't got off my bum to protest many times before, but I will be now on 13:44 - Mar 17 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
hat's the exact nature of the anti-protest legislation? From the media coverage I've just been looking through the detail seems a bit sketchy?
Before anyone jumps in, I'm not here to defend it, I just wanted to understand what is being put into law? |
My understanding is that they are substantially widening the grounds under which you can be charged during a protest to include annoyance and noise etc (pretty much unavoidable even in a wholly peaceful protest) |  |
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| Well I haven't got off my bum to protest many times before, but I will be now on 16:20 - Mar 17 with 1086 views | Charlie_pl_baxter |
| Well I haven't got off my bum to protest many times before, but I will be now on 13:44 - Mar 17 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
hat's the exact nature of the anti-protest legislation? From the media coverage I've just been looking through the detail seems a bit sketchy?
Before anyone jumps in, I'm not here to defend it, I just wanted to understand what is being put into law? |
Oh and making the potential sentence for defacing a monument up to ten years in prison (more than for some sexual assault cases...) | |
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| Well I haven't got off my bum to protest many times before, but I will be now on 16:20 - Mar 17 with 1075 views | jaykay |
| Well I haven't got off my bum to protest many times before, but I will be now on 13:44 - Mar 17 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
hat's the exact nature of the anti-protest legislation? From the media coverage I've just been looking through the detail seems a bit sketchy?
Before anyone jumps in, I'm not here to defend it, I just wanted to understand what is being put into law? |
you are normally here to up vote your hero, when he's had a bad day before , and received a load of down votes . |  |
| forensic experts say footers and spruces fingerprints were not found at the scene after the weekends rows |
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| Well I haven't got off my bum to protest many times before, but I will be now on 17:26 - Mar 17 with 1024 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Well I haven't got off my bum to protest many times before, but I will be now on 16:14 - Mar 17 by Charlie_pl_baxter |
My understanding is that they are substantially widening the grounds under which you can be charged during a protest to include annoyance and noise etc (pretty much unavoidable even in a wholly peaceful protest) |
Blimey so silent protesting only! Can't see how it's enforceable in a protest of 100's or 1,000's of people though. | | | |
| Well I haven't got off my bum to protest many times before, but I will be now on 17:27 - Mar 17 with 1012 views | monytowbray |
They can’t arrest us all.
Sadly we need the majority of the “all” to wake up. |  |
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| Well I haven't got off my bum to protest many times before, but I will be now on 20:45 - Mar 17 with 914 views | Ryorry |
| Well I haven't got off my bum to protest many times before, but I will be now on 13:44 - Mar 17 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
hat's the exact nature of the anti-protest legislation? From the media coverage I've just been looking through the detail seems a bit sketchy?
Before anyone jumps in, I'm not here to defend it, I just wanted to understand what is being put into law? |
The key thing about the Bill is that it's attempting to smuggle through draconian, antidemocratic, authoritarian measures by draping them all around with some quite sensible stuff that made it hard for Tory backbenchers to oppose or abstain from, hence my description of it as Machiavellian.
So, eg. you have in Pt 7. Ch. 1 re the release of prisoners on licence:-
"106 Increase in requisite custodial period for certain violent or sexual offenders"
which few are going to argue with.
But then in part 3 you have major changes to the way protests are policed in England and Wales:-
"Clauses 54 to 56 and 60 would amend police powers in the Public Order Act 1986 so police can impose conditions on protests that are noisy enough to cause “intimidation or harassment” or “serious unease, alarm or distress” to bystanders.
Clauses 57 and 58 would amend provisions in the Police Reform and Social Responsibility Act 2011 to expand the “controlled area” around Parliament where certain protest activities are prohibited. It would also add obstructing access to the Parliamentary Estate to the activities prohibited in the “controlled area”.
Clause 59 would abolish the common law offence of public nuisance and replace it with a new statutory offence of “intentionally or recklessly causing public nuisance”.
These clauses are so openly worded that you could in theory, be sentenced to 10 years imprisonment simply for shouting your opposition to the policies of the government of the day in the street - in effect empowering this government to remove those whose views they don't like to prison, where they'll be more or less silenced. In other words, creating political prisoners.
If anyone wants to read the Bill in full -
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/cbill/58-01/0268/200268.pdf
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9164/
Actions:-
[Post edited 17 Mar 2021 20:47]
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| Well I haven't got off my bum to protest many times before, but I will be now on 20:48 - Mar 17 with 912 views | J2BLUE |
| Well I haven't got off my bum to protest many times before, but I will be now on 20:45 - Mar 17 by Ryorry |
The key thing about the Bill is that it's attempting to smuggle through draconian, antidemocratic, authoritarian measures by draping them all around with some quite sensible stuff that made it hard for Tory backbenchers to oppose or abstain from, hence my description of it as Machiavellian.
So, eg. you have in Pt 7. Ch. 1 re the release of prisoners on licence:-
"106 Increase in requisite custodial period for certain violent or sexual offenders"
which few are going to argue with.
But then in part 3 you have major changes to the way protests are policed in England and Wales:-
"Clauses 54 to 56 and 60 would amend police powers in the Public Order Act 1986 so police can impose conditions on protests that are noisy enough to cause “intimidation or harassment” or “serious unease, alarm or distress” to bystanders.
Clauses 57 and 58 would amend provisions in the Police Reform and Social Responsibility Act 2011 to expand the “controlled area” around Parliament where certain protest activities are prohibited. It would also add obstructing access to the Parliamentary Estate to the activities prohibited in the “controlled area”.
Clause 59 would abolish the common law offence of public nuisance and replace it with a new statutory offence of “intentionally or recklessly causing public nuisance”.
These clauses are so openly worded that you could in theory, be sentenced to 10 years imprisonment simply for shouting your opposition to the policies of the government of the day in the street - in effect empowering this government to remove those whose views they don't like to prison, where they'll be more or less silenced. In other words, creating political prisoners.
If anyone wants to read the Bill in full -
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/cbill/58-01/0268/200268.pdf
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9164/
Actions:-
[Post edited 17 Mar 2021 20:47]
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Why would they put the Brexit hashtag on there? Why is that shoehorned in? Just going to put people off. | |
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| Well I haven't got off my bum to protest many times before, but I will be now on 20:55 - Mar 17 with 877 views | Ryorry |
| Well I haven't got off my bum to protest many times before, but I will be now on 20:48 - Mar 17 by J2BLUE |
Why would they put the Brexit hashtag on there? Why is that shoehorned in? Just going to put people off. |
I doubt it. It's so minute I hadn't even noticed it till you pointed it out, & even then I had to look hard to find it. | |
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| Well I haven't got off my bum to protest many times before, but I will be now on 20:58 - Mar 17 with 867 views | J2BLUE |
| Well I haven't got off my bum to protest many times before, but I will be now on 20:55 - Mar 17 by Ryorry |
I doubt it. It's so minute I hadn't even noticed it till you pointed it out, & even then I had to look hard to find it. |
Just seems unnecessarily shoehorned in to a wider more important issue. | |
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| Well I haven't got off my bum to protest many times before, but I will be now on 21:00 - Mar 17 with 863 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Well I haven't got off my bum to protest many times before, but I will be now on 12:24 - Mar 17 by Darth_Koont |
If only there were a national political organisation that could have been all over this in the week leading up to the vote. An organisation that would forcibly oppose it and protest using its access to media platforms rather than quietly slide from abstention to opposition the day before the vote and based on public reaction to a badly policed vigil.
But clearly that’s pie in the sky. |
I'm not sure Blue Action have the capacity. |  |
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| Well I haven't got off my bum to protest many times before, but I will be now on 21:05 - Mar 17 with 847 views | Ryorry |
| Well I haven't got off my bum to protest many times before, but I will be now on 20:58 - Mar 17 by J2BLUE |
Just seems unnecessarily shoehorned in to a wider more important issue. |
I don't think many who are worried about the Bill & want to do something about it will be quite as picky as you about a vanishingly small hashtag that's on one placard, J2!
You could always cover that bit up by smashing a raw egg onto it & letting the yolk dribble over & harden ...  | |
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| Well I haven't got off my bum to protest many times before, but I will be now on 21:54 - Mar 17 with 804 views | J2BLUE |
| Well I haven't got off my bum to protest many times before, but I will be now on 21:05 - Mar 17 by Ryorry |
I don't think many who are worried about the Bill & want to do something about it will be quite as picky as you about a vanishingly small hashtag that's on one placard, J2!
You could always cover that bit up by smashing a raw egg onto it & letting the yolk dribble over & harden ... |
But that's the point. I don't really care about it but I noticed it. I guarantee some Brexiteers will see that and be put off by it. Just needless. | |
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| Well I haven't got off my bum to protest many times before, but I will be now on 22:10 - Mar 17 with 775 views | Ryorry |
| Well I haven't got off my bum to protest many times before, but I will be now on 21:54 - Mar 17 by J2BLUE |
But that's the point. I don't really care about it but I noticed it. I guarantee some Brexiteers will see that and be put off by it. Just needless. |
OK, well then I suggest you contact them & put your point of view. You could also make your own placard & post a pic of that on the net on the platforms of your choice. The more people protesting, bringing their own particular points of view & drawing more in, the better! | |
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| Well I haven't got off my bum to protest many times before, but I will be now on 22:13 - Mar 17 with 769 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Well I haven't got off my bum to protest many times before, but I will be now on 20:48 - Mar 17 by J2BLUE |
Why would they put the Brexit hashtag on there? Why is that shoehorned in? Just going to put people off. |
Still part of the culture war isn't it. A lot of people will support the government taking away their rights just for partisan reasons without actually thinking about the issue. Same as Brexit. I suspect there will be a pretty big overlap between brexiteers and people supporting the government on this.
So I assume the organisers think the converse will be the case and they'll get more support by linking to Brexit.
It's sad, but the Brexit division will be around for a while yet. | |
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| Well I haven't got off my bum to protest many times before, but I will be now on 22:17 - Mar 17 with 757 views | WicklowBlue |
From afar looking in...I assume this bill will need to passed by the House of Lords?
Has a legal definition of "intimidation or harassment”,“serious unease, alarm or distress” to bystanders.", "intimidation or harassment” or “serious unease, alarm or distress” been determined?
If not, then I can see a lot of costly law suits and lack of legal clarity resulting in numerous challenges to this.
However Ryorry, completely agree that on the face of it this is completely anti-democratic. Equally over here in Ireland "reclaim the streets" protesters amongst others have been arrested due to breaching public health guidelines and failing to follow Gardai advice.
There is a balance to be found in allowing people voice themselves and others taking it too far in current times. |  | | |
| Well I haven't got off my bum to protest many times before, but I will be now on 22:19 - Mar 17 with 751 views | jeera |
| Well I haven't got off my bum to protest many times before, but I will be now on 22:13 - Mar 17 by Swansea_Blue |
Still part of the culture war isn't it. A lot of people will support the government taking away their rights just for partisan reasons without actually thinking about the issue. Same as Brexit. I suspect there will be a pretty big overlap between brexiteers and people supporting the government on this.
So I assume the organisers think the converse will be the case and they'll get more support by linking to Brexit.
It's sad, but the Brexit division will be around for a while yet. |
As an aside, I received an email from the RSPB expressing their concerns over this bill, (no pun intended, honest!).
They have started a petition too.
If that doesn't cover a broad area of concern about this then I don't know what does. |  |
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| Well I haven't got off my bum to protest many times before, but I will be now on 22:25 - Mar 17 with 737 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Well I haven't got off my bum to protest many times before, but I will be now on 22:19 - Mar 17 by jeera |
As an aside, I received an email from the RSPB expressing their concerns over this bill, (no pun intended, honest!).
They have started a petition too.
If that doesn't cover a broad area of concern about this then I don't know what does. |
That's a bit of an obscure one. I suppose they've a proud history of lobbying and, where necessary, protesting on environmental issues. This would hamper such efforts.
Or maybe they just want to feather their nest | |
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| Well I haven't got off my bum to protest many times before, but I will be now on 22:30 - Mar 17 with 720 views | Ryorry |
| Well I haven't got off my bum to protest many times before, but I will be now on 22:17 - Mar 17 by WicklowBlue |
From afar looking in...I assume this bill will need to passed by the House of Lords?
Has a legal definition of "intimidation or harassment”,“serious unease, alarm or distress” to bystanders.", "intimidation or harassment” or “serious unease, alarm or distress” been determined?
If not, then I can see a lot of costly law suits and lack of legal clarity resulting in numerous challenges to this.
However Ryorry, completely agree that on the face of it this is completely anti-democratic. Equally over here in Ireland "reclaim the streets" protesters amongst others have been arrested due to breaching public health guidelines and failing to follow Gardai advice.
There is a balance to be found in allowing people voice themselves and others taking it too far in current times. |
Those are both really good points.
Re the Lords - in the past yes, you could count on there being some sound people of integrity there who never mind their political hue (if any), you could rely on for proper checks & balances. These days however, when you have the likes of Ian Botham in situ ...
The looseness of the language is actually the most worrying thing about the Bill, as pointed out in these excellent threads, which are well worth reading -
[Post edited 17 Mar 2021 22:53]
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| Well I haven't got off my bum to protest many times before, but I will be now on 22:32 - Mar 17 with 720 views | jeera |
| Well I haven't got off my bum to protest many times before, but I will be now on 22:25 - Mar 17 by Swansea_Blue |
That's a bit of an obscure one. I suppose they've a proud history of lobbying and, where necessary, protesting on environmental issues. This would hamper such efforts.
Or maybe they just want to feather their nest |
The email is titled "Defend your right to peacefully protest for nature!" so yes, I guess they are taking this as seriously and as personally as everyone else.
Makes sense, no matter what your beliefs and/or concerns, protest is protest and it is important to be heard.
I think it's one of those things where we all need to step up and shall be investigating in the near future how I can lend my support hopefully beyond signing a few petitions.
In the meantime, it wouldn't hurt people to locate these petitions though and add their names to as many as possible, or as they see fit. | |
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| Well I haven't got off my bum to protest many times before, but I will be now on 22:33 - Mar 17 with 718 views | You_Bloo_Right |
| Well I haven't got off my bum to protest many times before, but I will be now on 22:25 - Mar 17 by Swansea_Blue |
That's a bit of an obscure one. I suppose they've a proud history of lobbying and, where necessary, protesting on environmental issues. This would hamper such efforts.
Or maybe they just want to feather their nest |
Their eagle-eyed lawyers are concerned about the government robin the people of the right to protest.
Of course a lot of people will swallow this nonsense, the great t1ts. |  |
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| Well I haven't got off my bum to protest many times before, but I will be now on 22:59 - Mar 17 with 669 views | Churchman |
| Well I haven't got off my bum to protest many times before, but I will be now on 22:32 - Mar 17 by jeera |
The email is titled "Defend your right to peacefully protest for nature!" so yes, I guess they are taking this as seriously and as personally as everyone else.
Makes sense, no matter what your beliefs and/or concerns, protest is protest and it is important to be heard.
I think it's one of those things where we all need to step up and shall be investigating in the near future how I can lend my support hopefully beyond signing a few petitions.
In the meantime, it wouldn't hurt people to locate these petitions though and add their names to as many as possible, or as they see fit. |
Absolutely agree with this. The right to peacefully protest is a fundamental. Take it away and you head down a very dark path.
Without it we would have no credible representation (see thread on Peterloo) or universal suffrage (Chartists, Reform Bill, Suffragettes etc). |  | | |
| Well I haven't got off my bum to protest many times before, but I will be now on 23:01 - Mar 17 with 663 views | TieDyedIn95 |
How long is that in place for though? Thought it ended in June? |  |
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