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Thoughts on the "traffic light" travel system? 08:41 - Apr 9 with 2530 viewsStokieBlue

Details here:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/apr/08/covid-plan-for-england-trips-abr

First thing that springs to mind is that it's all very well having a watchlist but I would think that in the majority of cases a country is going to jump from whatever status it currently is to red immediately if a worrying variant is found so having such a list risks giving people a false sense of security with regards to planning which is exactly what they said it should prevent. It's still better than no guidance though.

The airline industry aren't happy because of the requirement to take a PCR test on return regardless of the traffic light level. They want either no tests at all from "green" countries (that wasn't ever going to happen in my opinion) or less accurate rapid testing. However that wouldn't allow the UK to discover new variants entering the country because only PCR tests give that ability. This is important as a lot of countries simply don't have the infrastructure to detect new variants in a timely manner (if at all).

Listening to a Scottish MP this morning they wanted to go much further and say no summer holidays at all so perhaps there is a chance of that being implemented in Scotland (although I don't see what would stop someone driving to England and then going unless there was a lot of coordination).

SB

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Thoughts on the "traffic light" travel system? on 09:00 - Apr 9 with 1829 viewsfactual_blue

The biggest danger is that cyclists will just ignore it.

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Thoughts on the "traffic light" travel system? on 09:01 - Apr 9 with 1819 viewsTractorWood

Pretty brainless. I've never understood our obsession with going somewhere sweltering during the one hot time of year in the UK. Gov are pandering and to me their opening position is over-promising. They seem to always prefer an elaborate and unworkable plan rather than just be realistic.

The only viable option I can see are travel bridges/corridors as and when places get to very low cases and very high vaccination rates. The US will get better very quickly, one assumes. UAE, Malta etc.

I know that was then, but it could be again..
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Thoughts on the "traffic light" travel system? on 09:01 - Apr 9 with 1815 viewsElderGrizzly

There is currently a loophole for the Scots that means you don't need to quarantine in a hotel in Scotland if you fly back via England.

May 17th won't be happening either, for all but a few select destinations. Mid/late June is our best estimate for wider opening, but then only with PCR test before return.
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Thoughts on the "traffic light" travel system? on 09:05 - Apr 9 with 1801 viewsStokieBlue

Thoughts on the "traffic light" travel system? on 09:01 - Apr 9 by ElderGrizzly

There is currently a loophole for the Scots that means you don't need to quarantine in a hotel in Scotland if you fly back via England.

May 17th won't be happening either, for all but a few select destinations. Mid/late June is our best estimate for wider opening, but then only with PCR test before return.


That is the thing that has really upset the airlines.

All very well having flights for a tenner but if the test is 150 quid when you get back then suddenly quite a few might be put off.

The reasons for the PCR test are clear and valid though and all arguments against them are purely financial.

SB

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Thoughts on the "traffic light" travel system? on 09:05 - Apr 9 with 1794 viewsmikeybloo88

Absolutely correct to require PCR testing for everyone returning from abroad....if people want to travel and get a holiday then a few hundred pounds is not a lot to ask to try and ensure no new wave here. They probably will have saved that money anyway by not going last year and on good deals for this year. I have booked a few UK trips for July and August, and am keeping some powder dry to see what the situation is like in Euope come late September...if it looks good, a week at our favourite hotel in Croatia beckons and I'm happy to take and pay for whatever tests are required.
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Thoughts on the "traffic light" travel system? on 09:06 - Apr 9 with 1796 viewshype313

I originally thought it would be a goo idea, but as you say the risk is that a country that could go from Green to Red within a matter of hours makes the whole thing unworkable.

My Wife was booked to go to Turkey in June, but she spoke to a number of her Turkish friends in Bodrum and they said it's awful out there, running at 50k cases a day and no one is really following social distancing rules, they are also locked down from Friday night to Monday morning each week and told to stay at home.

She has deferred it until next year.

As much as were all desperate for a holiday or overseas travel, it's just not worth it imo for the next few months.

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Thoughts on the "traffic light" travel system? on 09:16 - Apr 9 with 1765 viewsfactual_blue

Thoughts on the "traffic light" travel system? on 09:06 - Apr 9 by hype313

I originally thought it would be a goo idea, but as you say the risk is that a country that could go from Green to Red within a matter of hours makes the whole thing unworkable.

My Wife was booked to go to Turkey in June, but she spoke to a number of her Turkish friends in Bodrum and they said it's awful out there, running at 50k cases a day and no one is really following social distancing rules, they are also locked down from Friday night to Monday morning each week and told to stay at home.

She has deferred it until next year.

As much as were all desperate for a holiday or overseas travel, it's just not worth it imo for the next few months.


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Thoughts on the "traffic light" travel system? on 09:17 - Apr 9 with 1761 viewshype313

Thoughts on the "traffic light" travel system? on 09:16 - Apr 9 by factual_blue

Is any idea involving goo good?


Stick to rummaging around skips.

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Thoughts on the "traffic light" travel system? on 09:29 - Apr 9 with 1746 viewsbluelagos

The cost of testing is clearly prohibitive for a cheap package holiday, thus making such holidays the preserve of those who can afford them.

Appreciate many will see this as a good thing (as it will limit the number of holiday makers) but if travel is seen as safe (according to the govt and it's advisers) I see no reason why it should be limited to the wealthy.

Plenty of hard working people won't be able to afford a break. And it's all well and good saying holiday in the Uk, but the costs have gone through the roof this summer. A cottage I hired for some Yorkshire walking 2 years ago has gone from £400 in June to £680 in May this year.

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Thoughts on the "traffic light" travel system? on 09:36 - Apr 9 with 1727 viewsRadlett_blue

Thoughts on the "traffic light" travel system? on 09:29 - Apr 9 by bluelagos

The cost of testing is clearly prohibitive for a cheap package holiday, thus making such holidays the preserve of those who can afford them.

Appreciate many will see this as a good thing (as it will limit the number of holiday makers) but if travel is seen as safe (according to the govt and it's advisers) I see no reason why it should be limited to the wealthy.

Plenty of hard working people won't be able to afford a break. And it's all well and good saying holiday in the Uk, but the costs have gone through the roof this summer. A cottage I hired for some Yorkshire walking 2 years ago has gone from £400 in June to £680 in May this year.


Like everything to do with COVID, there is no perfect solution. However, it seems idiotic to put barriers in the way of people who have been vaccinated and effectively deter them from travelling to relatively low risk countries.

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Thoughts on the "traffic light" travel system? on 09:38 - Apr 9 with 1724 viewsStokieBlue

Thoughts on the "traffic light" travel system? on 09:29 - Apr 9 by bluelagos

The cost of testing is clearly prohibitive for a cheap package holiday, thus making such holidays the preserve of those who can afford them.

Appreciate many will see this as a good thing (as it will limit the number of holiday makers) but if travel is seen as safe (according to the govt and it's advisers) I see no reason why it should be limited to the wealthy.

Plenty of hard working people won't be able to afford a break. And it's all well and good saying holiday in the Uk, but the costs have gone through the roof this summer. A cottage I hired for some Yorkshire walking 2 years ago has gone from £400 in June to £680 in May this year.


I think the counter to your first two paragraphs is that clearly it's not seen as safe unless there is a PCR test at the end to confirm that one isn't infected upon return and that one doesn't have a new and nasty variant.

So I think the assumption that it's safe is not quite correct. Being allowed and being safe are two different things during the pandemic (see Christmas for instance).

Do you think that people should be allowed to go on holiday and then not do a PCR test? If yes, how do we stop any new variants coming from countries which are still on the green list? A lot of countries on that list simply won't have the testing or gene sequencing infrastructure that the UK has so probably won't notice any new variants very quickly.

The minister this morning did say he was going to look at reducing the cost of PCR tests to around 70 GBP if possible which would make a big difference to many.

SB

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Thoughts on the "traffic light" travel system? on 09:40 - Apr 9 with 1714 viewsStokieBlue

Thoughts on the "traffic light" travel system? on 09:36 - Apr 9 by Radlett_blue

Like everything to do with COVID, there is no perfect solution. However, it seems idiotic to put barriers in the way of people who have been vaccinated and effectively deter them from travelling to relatively low risk countries.


Having the vaccine doesn't mean you are 100% protected from transferring a new variant to the UK.

There are new PCR tests which can detect mutant variants but I don't know if the UK is going to use them any time soon.

SB

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Thoughts on the "traffic light" travel system? on 09:43 - Apr 9 with 1707 viewsbluelagos

Thoughts on the "traffic light" travel system? on 09:38 - Apr 9 by StokieBlue

I think the counter to your first two paragraphs is that clearly it's not seen as safe unless there is a PCR test at the end to confirm that one isn't infected upon return and that one doesn't have a new and nasty variant.

So I think the assumption that it's safe is not quite correct. Being allowed and being safe are two different things during the pandemic (see Christmas for instance).

Do you think that people should be allowed to go on holiday and then not do a PCR test? If yes, how do we stop any new variants coming from countries which are still on the green list? A lot of countries on that list simply won't have the testing or gene sequencing infrastructure that the UK has so probably won't notice any new variants very quickly.

The minister this morning did say he was going to look at reducing the cost of PCR tests to around 70 GBP if possible which would make a big difference to many.

SB


Not sure how you got from what I posted that I don't think we should test people.

My issue is that holidaying should not become the preserve of the rich.

Get the tests down to say £20 a head, and I think that is far more palatable that what is currently a lot more.

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Thoughts on the "traffic light" travel system? on 09:45 - Apr 9 with 1704 viewsRadlett_blue

Thoughts on the "traffic light" travel system? on 09:40 - Apr 9 by StokieBlue

Having the vaccine doesn't mean you are 100% protected from transferring a new variant to the UK.

There are new PCR tests which can detect mutant variants but I don't know if the UK is going to use them any time soon.

SB


Yes, but the whole "100%" thing is the issue. If you only did things that were risk free, you wouldn't do anything & certainly wouldn't get vaccinated in the first place. The apparent risk of developing blood clots from the Astra Zeneca vaccine is a small fraction of the risk from taking contraceptive pills, for example. We will never have 100% protection from COVID & all viruses mutate anyway so we will have to deal with variants with or without overseas travel.

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Thoughts on the "traffic light" travel system? on 09:47 - Apr 9 with 1696 viewsStokieBlue

Thoughts on the "traffic light" travel system? on 09:43 - Apr 9 by bluelagos

Not sure how you got from what I posted that I don't think we should test people.

My issue is that holidaying should not become the preserve of the rich.

Get the tests down to say £20 a head, and I think that is far more palatable that what is currently a lot more.


I haven't said that you don't think we should test people.

I asked the question on whether you think there should be a test upon return.

I think 20 GBP is unrealistic at the moment. I the EU they are about 70 GBP and in the UK they are 120 to 150 GBP (probably due to Tory cronyism and their mates charging more). It's realistic to get them to 70 GBP I think but 20 GBP would probably need a subsidy from the government (which is also worth considering and possible).

SB

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Thoughts on the "traffic light" travel system? on 09:52 - Apr 9 with 1682 viewsStokieBlue

Thoughts on the "traffic light" travel system? on 09:45 - Apr 9 by Radlett_blue

Yes, but the whole "100%" thing is the issue. If you only did things that were risk free, you wouldn't do anything & certainly wouldn't get vaccinated in the first place. The apparent risk of developing blood clots from the Astra Zeneca vaccine is a small fraction of the risk from taking contraceptive pills, for example. We will never have 100% protection from COVID & all viruses mutate anyway so we will have to deal with variants with or without overseas travel.


That is fair but there is an order of magnitude difference between your examples and the coverage of the vaccine. The vaccines are a quite a good % away from stopping 100% of infection. There are mainly there to stop hospitalisation and death which they do very well.

Given that a mutation could arise anywhere and could undermine the vaccinated population in the UK it doesn't seem unreasonable to want some testing upon return. People going to green countries won't have to quarantine upon return if the test is negative. I think it's going to get more complicated if a green destination goes amber or red whilst someone is on holiday there.

You're of course correct that mutations will always happen, however once a good % of the global population is vaccinated the opportunities for the virus to mutate decrease by orders of magnitude as there is simply less virus in which a beneficial mutation can arise.

I do think cost is an issue though and that needs to be looked at by the government.

SB

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Thoughts on the "traffic light" travel system? on 09:54 - Apr 9 with 1675 viewsbluelagos

Thoughts on the "traffic light" travel system? on 09:47 - Apr 9 by StokieBlue

I haven't said that you don't think we should test people.

I asked the question on whether you think there should be a test upon return.

I think 20 GBP is unrealistic at the moment. I the EU they are about 70 GBP and in the UK they are 120 to 150 GBP (probably due to Tory cronyism and their mates charging more). It's realistic to get them to 70 GBP I think but 20 GBP would probably need a subsidy from the government (which is also worth considering and possible).

SB


No worries. Don't have an issue with testing per se for entry into the Uk.

Understand that might need a subsidy (Holiday firms? Airlines? Govt?) to get them to a reasonable level.

The Lateral ones are much cheaper, presume they are not deemed accurate enough? (although accurate enough for use in the UK?)

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Thoughts on the "traffic light" travel system? on 09:58 - Apr 9 with 1658 viewsStokieBlue

Thoughts on the "traffic light" travel system? on 09:54 - Apr 9 by bluelagos

No worries. Don't have an issue with testing per se for entry into the Uk.

Understand that might need a subsidy (Holiday firms? Airlines? Govt?) to get them to a reasonable level.

The Lateral ones are much cheaper, presume they are not deemed accurate enough? (although accurate enough for use in the UK?)


It would be interesting if the government asked the airlines to subsidise but I think most of them are on their knees with regards to cash reserves. The government need to investigate why their mates are charging double what the cost is in the EU.

The lateral flow ones aren't as accurate as you say but are much quicker (30 minutes or so). They could be used to find people who are definitely infected but will let some slip through. Using them internally in the UK is a bit different because those people are here anyway (and is the only viable way to test enough people to fill a stadium).

The other issue with lateral flow is that they can't be used to look at mutations (although as it stands the UK PCR tests don't either I believe - I will need to read up on that but PCR tests do exist which can highlight mutations).

SB

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Thoughts on the "traffic light" travel system? on 10:09 - Apr 9 with 1644 viewsElderGrizzly

Thoughts on the "traffic light" travel system? on 09:05 - Apr 9 by StokieBlue

That is the thing that has really upset the airlines.

All very well having flights for a tenner but if the test is 150 quid when you get back then suddenly quite a few might be put off.

The reasons for the PCR test are clear and valid though and all arguments against them are purely financial.

SB


The bigger challenge is if you test positive in that PCR test before returning to the UK, as then you have to stay in the country and self-isolate/quarantine at your expense.
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Thoughts on the "traffic light" travel system? on 10:12 - Apr 9 with 1642 viewsStokieBlue

Thoughts on the "traffic light" travel system? on 10:09 - Apr 9 by ElderGrizzly

The bigger challenge is if you test positive in that PCR test before returning to the UK, as then you have to stay in the country and self-isolate/quarantine at your expense.


Is it a PCR test before return? I took this to mean lateral flow at the airport and then PCR upon return?

"People arriving in England from green-list countries will have to take a pre-departure virus test and a PCR test on the day after their return, but will not need to self-isolate or take any other tests."

As you say, even if it's lateral flow, if it's positive then quarantining abroad is going to be problematic for many with regards to cost, work etc.

SB

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Thoughts on the "traffic light" travel system? on 10:16 - Apr 9 with 1630 viewsElderGrizzly

Thoughts on the "traffic light" travel system? on 09:29 - Apr 9 by bluelagos

The cost of testing is clearly prohibitive for a cheap package holiday, thus making such holidays the preserve of those who can afford them.

Appreciate many will see this as a good thing (as it will limit the number of holiday makers) but if travel is seen as safe (according to the govt and it's advisers) I see no reason why it should be limited to the wealthy.

Plenty of hard working people won't be able to afford a break. And it's all well and good saying holiday in the Uk, but the costs have gone through the roof this summer. A cottage I hired for some Yorkshire walking 2 years ago has gone from £400 in June to £680 in May this year.


Jet2 have just suspended all flights and holidays until the mid/late-June date I mentioned above.

May 17th was always a 'Boris Promise' and he was advised against it.
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Thoughts on the "traffic light" travel system? on 10:19 - Apr 9 with 1625 viewsElderGrizzly

Thoughts on the "traffic light" travel system? on 09:36 - Apr 9 by Radlett_blue

Like everything to do with COVID, there is no perfect solution. However, it seems idiotic to put barriers in the way of people who have been vaccinated and effectively deter them from travelling to relatively low risk countries.


The problem we have had looking at this, is some of those countries have the SA variant in circulation and borders aren't as controlled as ours.

You'll need a test to come back into the UK and likely need a test to get into any country as well.

It's a mess and i'd avoid holidays overseas until at least September/October
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Thoughts on the "traffic light" travel system? on 10:21 - Apr 9 with 1621 viewsElderGrizzly

Thoughts on the "traffic light" travel system? on 09:54 - Apr 9 by bluelagos

No worries. Don't have an issue with testing per se for entry into the Uk.

Understand that might need a subsidy (Holiday firms? Airlines? Govt?) to get them to a reasonable level.

The Lateral ones are much cheaper, presume they are not deemed accurate enough? (although accurate enough for use in the UK?)


Airlines are already subsidising some tests. BA have a 'supervised' LFT for £33, but that won't be accepted in these new conditions.

They'll be angry about this of course.

LFTs are open to abuse and aren't accurate enough btw.
[Post edited 9 Apr 2021 10:21]
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Thoughts on the "traffic light" travel system? on 10:28 - Apr 9 with 1600 viewsElderGrizzly

Thoughts on the "traffic light" travel system? on 10:12 - Apr 9 by StokieBlue

Is it a PCR test before return? I took this to mean lateral flow at the airport and then PCR upon return?

"People arriving in England from green-list countries will have to take a pre-departure virus test and a PCR test on the day after their return, but will not need to self-isolate or take any other tests."

As you say, even if it's lateral flow, if it's positive then quarantining abroad is going to be problematic for many with regards to cost, work etc.

SB


No, definitely a PCR before return. They are looking if they can get LFT before return, but it is too open to abuse right now.

Edit: to clarify. It is only a PCR test now, as they are they only ones that meet the specificity that the Govt demands.
[Post edited 9 Apr 2021 10:30]
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Thoughts on the "traffic light" travel system? on 10:33 - Apr 9 with 1588 viewspointofblue

Ban international travel for holidays for now; at least until those who want to be vaccinated have been. I don’t know what the obsession is trying to get it up and running.

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