| Its like a Marcus Evans 5 point plan 17:07 - Jul 5 with 2149 views | chrismakin |
It's not actually a plan is it lol.
All they've done is say. Fine go have your freedom. If you die you die. You can no longer blame us for anything.
Cases going up and will get worse
Hospitalisatioms increasing and will get worse
Deaths increasing and will get worse
Words from patrick
So everything will get worse but fk it. [Post edited 5 Jul 2021 17:12]
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| Its like a Marcus Evans 5 point plan on 17:44 - Jul 5 with 1850 views | J2BLUE |
Boris is so far out of his depth it's unreal. If this clown is re-elected then we deserve everything we get.
We've given up on science and now we're going to go with wishful thinking. Start buying a few books and saving some decent Netflix shows for the winter lockdown. |  |
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| Its like a Marcus Evans 5 point plan on 18:09 - Jul 5 with 1784 views | chrismakin |
| Its like a Marcus Evans 5 point plan on 17:44 - Jul 5 by J2BLUE |
Boris is so far out of his depth it's unreal. If this clown is re-elected then we deserve everything we get.
We've given up on science and now we're going to go with wishful thinking. Start buying a few books and saving some decent Netflix shows for the winter lockdown. |
Said to the Mrs that this is just another eat out to help out campaign to boost the economy. Keep some people happy and then a realisation that they've fked up again.
How on earth you can visually see everything increasing despite the vaccination numbers increasing and still think it's best to ignore the science. Imo. He should be on trial for manslaughter. | |
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| Its like a Marcus Evans 5 point plan on 18:10 - Jul 5 with 1788 views | factual_blue |
| Its like a Marcus Evans 5 point plan on 17:44 - Jul 5 by J2BLUE |
Boris is so far out of his depth it's unreal. If this clown is re-elected then we deserve everything we get.
We've given up on science and now we're going to go with wishful thinking. Start buying a few books and saving some decent Netflix shows for the winter lockdown. |
See also 'The Idiots Who Voted For Brexit'. |  |
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| Its like a Marcus Evans 5 point plan on 18:10 - Jul 5 with 1788 views | nodge_blue |
But in a society where we accept 20,000 flu deaths each year, there has to be a level of acceptable covid deaths too? |  |
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| Its like a Marcus Evans 5 point plan on 18:13 - Jul 5 with 1773 views | chrismakin |
| Its like a Marcus Evans 5 point plan on 18:10 - Jul 5 by nodge_blue |
But in a society where we accept 20,000 flu deaths each year, there has to be a level of acceptable covid deaths too? |
Of course
When it falls to the same level.
At the moment it still isnt getting close to that. And wont if the cases continue to increase as they are.
It made me laugh that press conference
Track and trace will play an important part
" you wont need to check in"
So track and trace wont play an important part then... [Post edited 5 Jul 2021 18:15]
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| Its like a Marcus Evans 5 point plan on 18:22 - Jul 5 with 1755 views | nodge_blue |
| Its like a Marcus Evans 5 point plan on 18:13 - Jul 5 by chrismakin |
Of course
When it falls to the same level.
At the moment it still isnt getting close to that. And wont if the cases continue to increase as they are.
It made me laugh that press conference
Track and trace will play an important part
" you wont need to check in"
So track and trace wont play an important part then... [Post edited 5 Jul 2021 18:15]
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When it falls to the same level....well it currently is about 20 deaths a day. So it has already fallen to that level.
The question you are asking is whether it will escalate much higher. Which is inconclusive but the graphs I have seen comparing the current daily infection cases to last winters rise, we would have been experiencing about 500 deaths a day when infections were running at about 20000 a day (which they currently are).
if we have now offered every adult the vaccine who wants it, other than double jabbing, we have no more cards to play except perpetual social distancing and lockdowns.
And this virus is never going away, ever.
So what are we going to do? Stay in a world of lockdown? | |
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| Its like a Marcus Evans 5 point plan on 18:30 - Jul 5 with 1717 views | chrismakin |
| Its like a Marcus Evans 5 point plan on 18:22 - Jul 5 by nodge_blue |
When it falls to the same level....well it currently is about 20 deaths a day. So it has already fallen to that level.
The question you are asking is whether it will escalate much higher. Which is inconclusive but the graphs I have seen comparing the current daily infection cases to last winters rise, we would have been experiencing about 500 deaths a day when infections were running at about 20000 a day (which they currently are).
if we have now offered every adult the vaccine who wants it, other than double jabbing, we have no more cards to play except perpetual social distancing and lockdowns.
And this virus is never going away, ever.
So what are we going to do? Stay in a world of lockdown? |
You move with the virus. If the cases grow. You stop. Simple. You dont open up to welcome it.
The vaccination helps of course but isnt 100% going to stop everything.
Cases will reach 50-60k per day. Leading to hospitalisations. This itself will lead to deaths either covid related or other health related deaths not being treated due to the rise in covid patients again.
The country went through 2 world wars ffs. And people cant cope with not having a beer in a pub. | |
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| Its like a Marcus Evans 5 point plan on 18:37 - Jul 5 with 1693 views | nodge_blue |
| Its like a Marcus Evans 5 point plan on 18:30 - Jul 5 by chrismakin |
You move with the virus. If the cases grow. You stop. Simple. You dont open up to welcome it.
The vaccination helps of course but isnt 100% going to stop everything.
Cases will reach 50-60k per day. Leading to hospitalisations. This itself will lead to deaths either covid related or other health related deaths not being treated due to the rise in covid patients again.
The country went through 2 world wars ffs. And people cant cope with not having a beer in a pub. |
But its not simple is it?
We got the cases down to under 2000 a day but this variant has increased them quickly. We could lockdown again to get them back below 2000, just in time for autumn and winter when they will go up again as soon as we come out of lockdown. We will be in and out of lockdowns constantly.
In fact some scientists are saying its better to have this wave in Summer and not save it up for Winter.
So its all far from simple.
And what about the damage its doing to peoples health? What about the deaths that have occurred to people waiting for other treatments like cancer? We could be "killing" hundreds a day of those people to save the covid deaths.
Lets listen to Chris Whitty. When he says we need to lockdown then I will accept it. But even the scientists on tv are saying that we have weakened the link between infections and deaths. | |
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| Its like a Marcus Evans 5 point plan on 18:45 - Jul 5 with 1655 views | Timefliesbyintheblue |
| Its like a Marcus Evans 5 point plan on 18:30 - Jul 5 by chrismakin |
You move with the virus. If the cases grow. You stop. Simple. You dont open up to welcome it.
The vaccination helps of course but isnt 100% going to stop everything.
Cases will reach 50-60k per day. Leading to hospitalisations. This itself will lead to deaths either covid related or other health related deaths not being treated due to the rise in covid patients again.
The country went through 2 world wars ffs. And people cant cope with not having a beer in a pub. |
WTF - you can have a beer in a pub - have been doing so for weeks. The war, what has that got to do with anything.
90% of the British public will deal with this in a sensible cooperative way. Folk like you will continue to highlight the 10% that will not. That is your prerogative of course - it is called a democracy, but I am well aware that like a few on here, that is not your preferred method of rule. |  | | |
| Its like a Marcus Evans 5 point plan on 18:51 - Jul 5 with 1628 views | chrismakin |
| Its like a Marcus Evans 5 point plan on 18:45 - Jul 5 by Timefliesbyintheblue |
WTF - you can have a beer in a pub - have been doing so for weeks. The war, what has that got to do with anything.
90% of the British public will deal with this in a sensible cooperative way. Folk like you will continue to highlight the 10% that will not. That is your prerogative of course - it is called a democracy, but I am well aware that like a few on here, that is not your preferred method of rule. |
Yes I'm well aware pub drinking. I was just saying people have for months moaned about something so trivial in place of the fact this pandemic has claimed and will continue to claim lives.
And you're right. It may be 10% of the country who are anti masks. Anti lockdown etc etc But that 10% moaning about so called lack of freedom has now lead to the government to wipe their hands of the pandemic. | |
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| Its like a Marcus Evans 5 point plan on 19:13 - Jul 5 with 1595 views | Timefliesbyintheblue |
| Its like a Marcus Evans 5 point plan on 18:51 - Jul 5 by chrismakin |
Yes I'm well aware pub drinking. I was just saying people have for months moaned about something so trivial in place of the fact this pandemic has claimed and will continue to claim lives.
And you're right. It may be 10% of the country who are anti masks. Anti lockdown etc etc But that 10% moaning about so called lack of freedom has now lead to the government to wipe their hands of the pandemic. |
CM, I appreciate your polite reply, I mean that; I am not sure there was much choice though. Young people (I have teenage grandchildren) have suffered so much during covid and if only for them I am grateful the restrictions are lifted.
I do get your point - yes there are risks attached; they might be risks that are not worth taking, but they are risks that had to be taken. Now that sounds very contradictory, but i think I know what I mean.!
We live in a blame culture, I try not to, but right now the great British public are being put to the test, and we ALL need to take more responsibility for our own health and general well being. | | | |
| Its like a Marcus Evans 5 point plan on 19:29 - Jul 5 with 1560 views | chrismakin |
| Its like a Marcus Evans 5 point plan on 19:13 - Jul 5 by Timefliesbyintheblue |
CM, I appreciate your polite reply, I mean that; I am not sure there was much choice though. Young people (I have teenage grandchildren) have suffered so much during covid and if only for them I am grateful the restrictions are lifted.
I do get your point - yes there are risks attached; they might be risks that are not worth taking, but they are risks that had to be taken. Now that sounds very contradictory, but i think I know what I mean.!
We live in a blame culture, I try not to, but right now the great British public are being put to the test, and we ALL need to take more responsibility for our own health and general well being. |
I think you're spot on about the blame culture and I actually believe this is why Boris has chosen this path.. so that when things do go pear shaped, he can say he gave us all opportunity to live our lives alongside it as long as remained cautious ourselves.
I do however feel hes throwing us to the wolves. I appreciate there are various graphs showing various growths or slowness of peaks for comparisons, however the end result in an only see as being one of pain and frustration that our leader has chosen to play god with our lives. [Post edited 5 Jul 2021 19:35]
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| Its like a Marcus Evans 5 point plan on 19:43 - Jul 5 with 1515 views | J2BLUE |
| Its like a Marcus Evans 5 point plan on 18:10 - Jul 5 by factual_blue |
See also 'The Idiots Who Voted For Brexit'. |
1.01 landed | |
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| Its like a Marcus Evans 5 point plan on 20:13 - Jul 5 with 1466 views | jeera |
| Its like a Marcus Evans 5 point plan on 18:37 - Jul 5 by nodge_blue |
But its not simple is it?
We got the cases down to under 2000 a day but this variant has increased them quickly. We could lockdown again to get them back below 2000, just in time for autumn and winter when they will go up again as soon as we come out of lockdown. We will be in and out of lockdowns constantly.
In fact some scientists are saying its better to have this wave in Summer and not save it up for Winter.
So its all far from simple.
And what about the damage its doing to peoples health? What about the deaths that have occurred to people waiting for other treatments like cancer? We could be "killing" hundreds a day of those people to save the covid deaths.
Lets listen to Chris Whitty. When he says we need to lockdown then I will accept it. But even the scientists on tv are saying that we have weakened the link between infections and deaths. |
"What about the deaths that have occurred to people waiting for other treatments like cancer? We could be "killing" hundreds a day of those people to save the covid deaths."
Who has said people shouldn't be treated?
What does this have to do with opening up everything?
I have had surgery many times but never yet in a pub, cafe, restaurant or at PR. |  |
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| Its like a Marcus Evans 5 point plan on 21:03 - Jul 5 with 1392 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Its like a Marcus Evans 5 point plan on 18:45 - Jul 5 by Timefliesbyintheblue |
WTF - you can have a beer in a pub - have been doing so for weeks. The war, what has that got to do with anything.
90% of the British public will deal with this in a sensible cooperative way. Folk like you will continue to highlight the 10% that will not. That is your prerogative of course - it is called a democracy, but I am well aware that like a few on here, that is not your preferred method of rule. |
Depends what you mean by deal with it sensibly. We aren't dealing with it sensibly enough now to reduce cases, and that's with some restrictions still in place. So I don't see how that will change once all restrictions in England are lifted.
Unless you mean only 10% will be complete idiots (promote anti-vax rubbish, vocally oppose /deny cvid, etc.). That may well be the case. |  |
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| Its like a Marcus Evans 5 point plan on 21:08 - Jul 5 with 1380 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Its like a Marcus Evans 5 point plan on 18:09 - Jul 5 by chrismakin |
Said to the Mrs that this is just another eat out to help out campaign to boost the economy. Keep some people happy and then a realisation that they've fked up again.
How on earth you can visually see everything increasing despite the vaccination numbers increasing and still think it's best to ignore the science. Imo. He should be on trial for manslaughter. |
It's almost like they have given the job of health secretary to the Chancellor of the Exchequer. |  |
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| Its like a Marcus Evans 5 point plan on 21:30 - Jul 5 with 1331 views | nodge_blue |
| Its like a Marcus Evans 5 point plan on 20:13 - Jul 5 by jeera |
"What about the deaths that have occurred to people waiting for other treatments like cancer? We could be "killing" hundreds a day of those people to save the covid deaths."
Who has said people shouldn't be treated?
What does this have to do with opening up everything?
I have had surgery many times but never yet in a pub, cafe, restaurant or at PR. |
I agree really. I suppose what I'm saying is that covid isn't the only thing that kills. It's now a disease that we will have to live with. There will be an element of people having to accept that and deal with the risk on a personal level.
For whatever reason we have had a huge backlog of cases now in the NHS. We've also had people avoid going to the doctor's. We've had dentists that have been hard to see. Somewhere we have to draw a line. And full vaccination seems a reasonable point. Further lock downs will only delay another wave, not prevent it. | |
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| Its like a Marcus Evans 5 point plan on 21:41 - Jul 5 with 1313 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Its like a Marcus Evans 5 point plan on 21:30 - Jul 5 by nodge_blue |
I agree really. I suppose what I'm saying is that covid isn't the only thing that kills. It's now a disease that we will have to live with. There will be an element of people having to accept that and deal with the risk on a personal level.
For whatever reason we have had a huge backlog of cases now in the NHS. We've also had people avoid going to the doctor's. We've had dentists that have been hard to see. Somewhere we have to draw a line. And full vaccination seems a reasonable point. Further lock downs will only delay another wave, not prevent it. |
We don’t have to live with it right now though - that’s a political, not medical decision. We’re making such good progress with the vaccine, we could easily retain some measures and then open up fully once the vaccine levels are up higher. It makes no sense to effectively give up now. I’ve an issue with us hanging out the kids to dry too - there are some horrible cases being reported of kids being poleaxed with long covid. We should be doing more to protect them imo, rather than using them as human guineapigs in a herd immunity by infection gamble. | |
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| Its like a Marcus Evans 5 point plan on 21:49 - Jul 5 with 1290 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Its like a Marcus Evans 5 point plan on 21:30 - Jul 5 by nodge_blue |
I agree really. I suppose what I'm saying is that covid isn't the only thing that kills. It's now a disease that we will have to live with. There will be an element of people having to accept that and deal with the risk on a personal level.
For whatever reason we have had a huge backlog of cases now in the NHS. We've also had people avoid going to the doctor's. We've had dentists that have been hard to see. Somewhere we have to draw a line. And full vaccination seems a reasonable point. Further lock downs will only delay another wave, not prevent it. |
Trouble is none of those issues in your second paragraph will be solved by pursuing a strategy that will increase cases. As cases rise people will become more nervous. As hospitalisations rise there will be more pressure on the NHS again and more medical procedures will be put off, etc. Bit of a viscous circle really. The worse the efforts to control, the worse the health and economic impacts. | |
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| Its like a Marcus Evans 5 point plan on 22:15 - Jul 5 with 1256 views | factual_blue |
Will boris's five point plan end like Marcus's? You know, we get flogged to the Yanks. | |
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| Its like a Marcus Evans 5 point plan on 22:22 - Jul 5 with 1245 views | BonchosBicycle |
Can you guys just get it sorted out ffs? I have flights booked home for Christmas. I'd really prefer not to be in quarantine for most of our stay. |  | | |
| Its like a Marcus Evans 5 point plan on 07:56 - Jul 6 with 1062 views | IPS_wich |
The way out of COVID is through getting a large part of the population vaccinated - and the UK is a shining light in regards to vaccination. Certainly looking on enviously from down under where a grand total of 4.7% of the population have been vaccinated and our prime minister is signaling late 2022 before the border is reopened.
However - this bit from the BBC was the bit where I am tempted to agree with you that this is a fool's plan:
"Johnson warned cases were predicted to rise to 50,000 a day later this month and that 'we must reconcile ourselves, sadly, to more deaths from Covid'. The prime minister explained: 'If we don't go ahead now when we've clearly done so much with the vaccination programme to break the link... when would we go ahead?'"
Erm - well, 50% of the population have had two doses, and although rates have slowed a little, only four weeks ago 40% had had two doses. Maybe the answer you're looking for is: how about in a couple of months when at current rates around 70% will have had two doses? | | | |
| Its like a Marcus Evans 5 point plan on 09:18 - Jul 6 with 998 views | ElephantintheRoom |
It's understandable though surely - summer is here and huge sectors of the economy are on their knnes - everyone needs 'certainty'... or at least the option to stay in business if at all possible.
This government never tried to contain covid because border controls and effective test and trace were beyond its capabilities - but it has managed to vaccinate people rather well - which should, in theory, prevent a surge in covid problems in the weeks and months ahead until winter.
So get yourself down to wetherspoons to help that nice man Tim out - the fact that this is a global pandemic and the UK are now world leading super-spreaders is neither here nor there. This isnt abject surrender - just like Dunkirk, this is victory and freedom | |
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| Its like a Marcus Evans 5 point plan on 18:33 - Jul 6 with 902 views | HARRY10 |
| Its like a Marcus Evans 5 point plan on 18:37 - Jul 5 by nodge_blue |
But its not simple is it?
We got the cases down to under 2000 a day but this variant has increased them quickly. We could lockdown again to get them back below 2000, just in time for autumn and winter when they will go up again as soon as we come out of lockdown. We will be in and out of lockdowns constantly.
In fact some scientists are saying its better to have this wave in Summer and not save it up for Winter.
So its all far from simple.
And what about the damage its doing to peoples health? What about the deaths that have occurred to people waiting for other treatments like cancer? We could be "killing" hundreds a day of those people to save the covid deaths.
Lets listen to Chris Whitty. When he says we need to lockdown then I will accept it. But even the scientists on tv are saying that we have weakened the link between infections and deaths. |
"And what about the damage its doing to peoples health? What about the deaths that have occurred to people waiting for other treatments like cancer? We could be "killing" hundreds a day of those people to save the covid deaths. "
eh ?
It is because hospitals are being swamped with covid patients that other treatments are being postponed/delayed.
Removing protection (19th July) guarantees an increase in covid patients, and so further delay to non covid patients.
Whether that is a risk worth, or needing, taking is a moot point - but its role in causing death to other patients is not. | | | |
| Its like a Marcus Evans 5 point plan on 18:37 - Jul 6 with 896 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Its like a Marcus Evans 5 point plan on 18:33 - Jul 6 by HARRY10 |
"And what about the damage its doing to peoples health? What about the deaths that have occurred to people waiting for other treatments like cancer? We could be "killing" hundreds a day of those people to save the covid deaths. "
eh ?
It is because hospitals are being swamped with covid patients that other treatments are being postponed/delayed.
Removing protection (19th July) guarantees an increase in covid patients, and so further delay to non covid patients.
Whether that is a risk worth, or needing, taking is a moot point - but its role in causing death to other patients is not. |
I think some people are putting things off too - and quite a significant number from some of the estimates I've seen. That's borne out by people I know, although obviously that's not representative, etc.
I think it's a real problem and a genuine concern. But then I don't think that will change now either. Those who've put stuff off because they're nervous aren't going to feel any happier with the reduced controls are they? So they may still put things off. If I was them I'd probably wait a few weeks to see how this third wave develops tbf. | |
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