| Boris and his holiday 09:15 - Oct 12 with 2232 views | Bluefish |
How do you think it played out?
Boris: Carrie wants another holiday
SPAD: not sure that is a good idea. It won't be a great look amongst NI increases, an energy price crisis, food shortages, universal credit cuts, covid deaths etc.
Boris: but I won't pay for it! I gave Zaccy boy a seat in the Lords I will just borrow his place.
SPAD: Not sure that helps sir
Boris: OK OK we will just say I'm working from abroad
SPAD: sir IDS just said people shouldn't work from home
Boris: pah that is just for the plebs
SPAD: they will never believe you are working out there
Boris: don't be so defeatist I'll slap a suit on for a photo and then get back to quaffing champers
SPAD: do you really think you can fool them with something so poor?
Boris: have you not been f**king watching all this time [Post edited 12 Oct 2021 9:18]
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| Boris and his holiday on 09:29 - Oct 12 with 2165 views | Basuco |
None of the above, there is a report coming out on Tuesday showing how you badly you acted during the pandemic, how you are responsible for a huge number of excess death's, you need to get out of the country. |  | | |
| Boris and his holiday on 09:46 - Oct 12 with 2111 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Boris and his holiday on 09:29 - Oct 12 by Basuco |
None of the above, there is a report coming out on Tuesday showing how you badly you acted during the pandemic, how you are responsible for a huge number of excess death's, you need to get out of the country. |
Makes you wonder. All a bit conspiracy theory like maybe, but we know he does like to swerve any accountability. And maybe he got tired of hiding in fridges. |  |
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| Boris and his holiday on 09:58 - Oct 12 with 2080 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Boris and his holiday on 09:46 - Oct 12 by Swansea_Blue |
Makes you wonder. All a bit conspiracy theory like maybe, but we know he does like to swerve any accountability. And maybe he got tired of hiding in fridges. |
He missed five crucial Covid Cobra meetings due to holiday or ‘other priorities’ including the one where the initial response was discussed.
His apologists are already demanding Whiity resigns
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| Boris and his holiday on 10:29 - Oct 12 with 2008 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Boris and his holiday on 09:58 - Oct 12 by ElderGrizzly |
He missed five crucial Covid Cobra meetings due to holiday or ‘other priorities’ including the one where the initial response was discussed.
His apologists are already demanding Whiity resigns
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The receipts are everywhere
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| Boris and his holiday on 10:32 - Oct 12 with 2001 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Boris and his holiday on 09:58 - Oct 12 by ElderGrizzly |
He missed five crucial Covid Cobra meetings due to holiday or ‘other priorities’ including the one where the initial response was discussed.
His apologists are already demanding Whiity resigns
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I'd have thought Vallance, Whitty and Harries all deserve to be in the firing line. Scientists advise and ministers decide, but all 3 publicly defended the poor decisions that were being made. Vallance poo pooed the idea of mass gatherings being a problem around the time that the Cheltenham Festival was taking place. Harries made some most bizarre anti-mask comments in pressers. Apparently Whitty argued strongly in their inner circle against the need for stricter controls.
The whole group of PM, Cummings, and other inner circle advisors around Cobra failed in those early stages (didn't do much better throughout either - the messaging when lockdown measures were eased it eh summer in England was confused still). | |
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| Boris and his holiday on 10:33 - Oct 12 with 1993 views | Steve_M |
| Boris and his holiday on 09:58 - Oct 12 by ElderGrizzly |
He missed five crucial Covid Cobra meetings due to holiday or ‘other priorities’ including the one where the initial response was discussed.
His apologists are already demanding Whiity resigns
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A distraction from this point too, which I agree with:
The failure last Autumn was negligent. |  |
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| Boris and his holiday on 10:43 - Oct 12 with 1951 views | chicoazul |
Lads I’m confused. Loads of you have been saying for the last 18 months “hurrrr durrrr follow the science”. Turns out they……did. |  |
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| Boris and his holiday on 10:48 - Oct 12 with 1914 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Boris and his holiday on 10:32 - Oct 12 by Swansea_Blue |
I'd have thought Vallance, Whitty and Harries all deserve to be in the firing line. Scientists advise and ministers decide, but all 3 publicly defended the poor decisions that were being made. Vallance poo pooed the idea of mass gatherings being a problem around the time that the Cheltenham Festival was taking place. Harries made some most bizarre anti-mask comments in pressers. Apparently Whitty argued strongly in their inner circle against the need for stricter controls.
The whole group of PM, Cummings, and other inner circle advisors around Cobra failed in those early stages (didn't do much better throughout either - the messaging when lockdown measures were eased it eh summer in England was confused still). |
Whitty demanded early closing of borders. He was ignored | | | |
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| Boris and his holiday on 10:49 - Oct 12 with 1917 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Boris and his holiday on 10:43 - Oct 12 by chicoazul |
Lads I’m confused. Loads of you have been saying for the last 18 months “hurrrr durrrr follow the science”. Turns out they……did. |
They followed the portions of ‘science’ they agreed with. There is a very important and subtle difference | | | |
| Boris and his holiday on 11:02 - Oct 12 with 1872 views | BlueBadger |
| Boris and his holiday on 10:43 - Oct 12 by chicoazul |
Lads I’m confused. Loads of you have been saying for the last 18 months “hurrrr durrrr follow the science”. Turns out they……did. |
Like with a lot of government policy, they used policy-based evidence rather than implement evidence-based policy.
If we had evidence-based policy it would still be a legal requirement to be masked up in the shops, for example. |  |
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| Boris and his holiday on 11:17 - Oct 12 with 1815 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Boris and his holiday on 10:48 - Oct 12 by ElderGrizzly |
Whitty demanded early closing of borders. He was ignored |
No he didn’t, the last time you posted this nonsense I posted a link where Whitty was clearly against closing the borders. This was right at the beginning.
Johnson has ignored the science from around July 2020 onwards. But Even Cummings, when he knifed just about everybody during the select committee hearing, admitted that Whitby, Valance and Sage had advised against an early lockdown. The SAGE minutes are available. [Post edited 12 Oct 2021 11:30]
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| Boris and his holiday on 11:37 - Oct 12 with 1745 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Boris and his holiday on 11:17 - Oct 12 by GlasgowBlue |
No he didn’t, the last time you posted this nonsense I posted a link where Whitty was clearly against closing the borders. This was right at the beginning.
Johnson has ignored the science from around July 2020 onwards. But Even Cummings, when he knifed just about everybody during the select committee hearing, admitted that Whitby, Valance and Sage had advised against an early lockdown. The SAGE minutes are available. [Post edited 12 Oct 2021 11:30]
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He really did as part of internal discussions at the beginning. We are briefed as it affects our jobs.
What is said in public, or allowed to be said in public is different. It will be interesting when Whitty retires that’s all i’d say.
And of course this is an ‘independent’ report that is written by a Tory appointed group, will have gone across Ministers desks and the desk of Johnson before publication. Confirmed by Alistair Campbell and Dominic Cummings this morning.
And still Johnson decided to jet off… | | | |
| Boris and his holiday on 11:49 - Oct 12 with 1706 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Boris and his holiday on 11:37 - Oct 12 by ElderGrizzly |
He really did as part of internal discussions at the beginning. We are briefed as it affects our jobs.
What is said in public, or allowed to be said in public is different. It will be interesting when Whitty retires that’s all i’d say.
And of course this is an ‘independent’ report that is written by a Tory appointed group, will have gone across Ministers desks and the desk of Johnson before publication. Confirmed by Alistair Campbell and Dominic Cummings this morning.
And still Johnson decided to jet off… |
I haven’t disputed anything in the report. Whitty publicly came out against closing the borders before Covid started to become a problem here. | |
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| Boris and his holiday on 12:25 - Oct 12 with 1581 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Boris and his holiday on 10:48 - Oct 12 by ElderGrizzly |
Whitty demanded early closing of borders. He was ignored |
Ah did he? It's hard to remember who did what when tbh. It was Whitty who said he'd continue to socially distance and wear a mask when England relaxed controls in the summer wasn't it? Their personal views seemed to conflict with government advice.
I've just had a read of this Times article as a bit of a refresher - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/cheltenham-festival-failures-of-state-herd-im
They certainly shouldn't be singled out as scapegoats, even if they did publically just tow the line. But as part of the process, their roles should be scrutinised imo. | |
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| Boris and his holiday on 12:33 - Oct 12 with 1550 views | BarcaBlue |
Marbella is a cesspit of corruption, mafiosos and extreme bad taste, inhabited on the whole by hoodlums, gangsters and pond-life. The prime minister should enjoy his hols. |  | | |
| Boris and his holiday on 12:39 - Oct 12 with 1531 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Boris and his holiday on 12:25 - Oct 12 by Swansea_Blue |
Ah did he? It's hard to remember who did what when tbh. It was Whitty who said he'd continue to socially distance and wear a mask when England relaxed controls in the summer wasn't it? Their personal views seemed to conflict with government advice.
I've just had a read of this Times article as a bit of a refresher - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/cheltenham-festival-failures-of-state-herd-im
They certainly shouldn't be singled out as scapegoats, even if they did publically just tow the line. But as part of the process, their roles should be scrutinised imo. |
SAGWE minutes show that they advised Johnson it was too early to lockdown. Do we want out elected officials to ignore the advice of their scientific and medical advisors?
I appreciate that Johnson has been ignoring all scientific advice since July 2020 but he literally did what his scientific advisors advised him to do in March regarding lockdowns and borders.
People can't scream at Johnson on the one hand for ignoring his scientific advice when he does ignore it and then on the other hand complain that he followed the advice at the beginning of the pandemic. | |
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| Boris and his holiday on 12:45 - Oct 12 with 1460 views | giant_stow |
| Boris and his holiday on 10:33 - Oct 12 by Steve_M |
A distraction from this point too, which I agree with:
The failure last Autumn was negligent. |
This point seems indisputable. I haven't read the report - does it cover the second wave? |  |
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| Boris and his holiday on 12:54 - Oct 12 with 1427 views | TooManyCooks |
| Boris and his holiday on 10:33 - Oct 12 by Steve_M |
A distraction from this point too, which I agree with:
The failure last Autumn was negligent. |
How many of them do you think we'll see up on manslaughter charges? |  |
| hedgehog flavoured cucumbers |
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| Boris and his holiday on 13:10 - Oct 12 with 1370 views | itfcjoe |
| Boris and his holiday on 12:39 - Oct 12 by GlasgowBlue |
SAGWE minutes show that they advised Johnson it was too early to lockdown. Do we want out elected officials to ignore the advice of their scientific and medical advisors?
I appreciate that Johnson has been ignoring all scientific advice since July 2020 but he literally did what his scientific advisors advised him to do in March regarding lockdowns and borders.
People can't scream at Johnson on the one hand for ignoring his scientific advice when he does ignore it and then on the other hand complain that he followed the advice at the beginning of the pandemic. |
According to the Times, I can't remember exact details, but at time it was decided by everyone we had to lock down (Maybe 15/3) Boris left it a further 9 days by which point we had more than 100k live cases in the country.
More than any other country in the world when they locked down - the 9 day delay cost lives
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/three-weeks-of-dither-and-delay-on-coronaviru [Post edited 12 Oct 2021 13:11]
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| Boris and his holiday on 14:04 - Oct 12 with 1240 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Boris and his holiday on 13:10 - Oct 12 by itfcjoe |
According to the Times, I can't remember exact details, but at time it was decided by everyone we had to lock down (Maybe 15/3) Boris left it a further 9 days by which point we had more than 100k live cases in the country.
More than any other country in the world when they locked down - the 9 day delay cost lives
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/three-weeks-of-dither-and-delay-on-coronaviru [Post edited 12 Oct 2021 13:11]
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No.SAGE minutes, Cummings testimony and today’s report clearly show that Whitty and Vallance advised against going early.
Johnson is completely culpable for the second September wave and every fcuk up since but he went with SAGE’s advice in March. [Post edited 12 Oct 2021 14:10]
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| Boris and his holiday on 14:19 - Oct 12 with 1180 views | Churchman |
It doesn’t matter who advised what and when, what they knew or what they didn’t. Johnson is accountable. He is accountable for unnecessary deaths of 1000s of people. Few countries handled it worse than Johnson’s crowd. And unlike the likes of Italy they even had a couple of weeks notice of what was likely to happen and they dithered.
If this government had a shred of decency, they’d resign and let the people decide if their actions on this and everything else in the past couple of years is acceptable. But they’d never do that. [Post edited 12 Oct 2021 15:42]
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| Boris and his holiday on 14:25 - Oct 12 with 1157 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Boris and his holiday on 12:39 - Oct 12 by GlasgowBlue |
SAGWE minutes show that they advised Johnson it was too early to lockdown. Do we want out elected officials to ignore the advice of their scientific and medical advisors?
I appreciate that Johnson has been ignoring all scientific advice since July 2020 but he literally did what his scientific advisors advised him to do in March regarding lockdowns and borders.
People can't scream at Johnson on the one hand for ignoring his scientific advice when he does ignore it and then on the other hand complain that he followed the advice at the beginning of the pandemic. |
We don't really, do we. But then we also want officials to be aware that their advisors may not be reflecting the whole of the current state of knowledge/play. There were many more scientists around at the time who were criticising our approach from the off who were completely ignored (that's' why indi sage was set up, to try and get over more of a consensus view). That should have rung alarm bells, but instead they tried to make out that it was wonderful pioneering British spirit and all that guff. | |
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| Boris and his holiday on 14:31 - Oct 12 with 1134 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Boris and his holiday on 14:25 - Oct 12 by Swansea_Blue |
We don't really, do we. But then we also want officials to be aware that their advisors may not be reflecting the whole of the current state of knowledge/play. There were many more scientists around at the time who were criticising our approach from the off who were completely ignored (that's' why indi sage was set up, to try and get over more of a consensus view). That should have rung alarm bells, but instead they tried to make out that it was wonderful pioneering British spirit and all that guff. |
We have the SAGE minutes. Read them. It lays out the consensus they came to. The government followed that advice.
This isn’t a defence of the government btw. Johnson went against all advice from the July 2920 re opening up until now.
We know hes ignoring their advice since then because of the latest SAGE minutes.
Today’s report btw.
“In the first three months the strategy reflected official scientific advice to the Government which was accepted and implemented". [Post edited 12 Oct 2021 14:38]
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| Boris and his holiday on 15:05 - Oct 12 with 1048 views | BlueBadger |
| Boris and his holiday on 09:46 - Oct 12 by Swansea_Blue |
Makes you wonder. All a bit conspiracy theory like maybe, but we know he does like to swerve any accountability. And maybe he got tired of hiding in fridges. |
I see DaveU has woken up to downvote anyone criticising the government for being incompetent and corrupt.
Come on Dave, tell us what you disagree with?
Or failing that, what about openly racist, incompetent and corrupt Boris Johnson it is that appeals to you? [Post edited 12 Oct 2021 15:09]
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| Boris and his holiday on 15:30 - Oct 12 with 975 views | Ryorry |
| Boris and his holiday on 10:49 - Oct 12 by ElderGrizzly |
They followed the portions of ‘science’ they agreed with. There is a very important and subtle difference |
Friend said to me this morning that Vallance, Whitty & PHE had probably been told that there would be cuts in funding if they didn't say what Johnson, Cummings et al wanted them to say. Any truth in that do you think?
Another friend said last night he'd seen a TV docu somewhere which revealed Johnson's conference speech was based on feedback from focus groups on what "*they* wanted to hear". |  |
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