| Too late to save the planet? on 12:49 - Mar 2 with 1611 views | Swansea_Blue |
It's easy to be downhearted about it when you see what's happening in other countries especially. I think the only way we'll make significant progress is by fully monetising the remedial actions - money and greed seem to be the only motivators (be that for most national leaders, corporations and in many cases individuals). Give people a chance to benefit financially and be corrupt and they'll be more intersted! |  |
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| Too late to save the planet? on 13:03 - Mar 2 with 1562 views | Ryorry |
| Too late to save the planet? on 12:49 - Mar 2 by Swansea_Blue |
It's easy to be downhearted about it when you see what's happening in other countries especially. I think the only way we'll make significant progress is by fully monetising the remedial actions - money and greed seem to be the only motivators (be that for most national leaders, corporations and in many cases individuals). Give people a chance to benefit financially and be corrupt and they'll be more intersted! |
I’ve been saying for 25 years that R, D and investing in renewables - including forestry, particularly in areas where the steel industry redundancies occurred, which would have been eminently suitable - would be wonderful for both UK economy & obviously the planet.
Sadly, politicians, esp Tories, have always been too corruptly invested in ffs.
Btw, anyone been watching the BBC4 recent rerun of Edge of Darkness? 35 years ahead of its time. |  |
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| Too late to save the planet? on 13:04 - Mar 2 with 1558 views | J2BLUE |
I agree with him.
Doesn't mean we should give up but I do think we are now relying on some new amazing technology to save us. No idea if anything is being worked on which can make a big difference. |  |
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| Too late to save the planet? on 13:09 - Mar 2 with 1549 views | NthQldITFC |
I think the only way is the third way, by which I mean we need to move onto something very akin to a war footing.
Business as usual, which to all intents and purposes is what we have been doing for thirty or so years in the face of ever more evidence is categorically environmental, societal and for most of the human race, death.
Bright and breezy positivity about new schemes or new technologies - I understand the arguments about trying to keep people positive, but these tend to be at best overly optimistic and at worst just new mechanisms for profit-chasing. The biggest danger/threat though is that for vast swathes of the human race who don't have a particularly good grip on the science and the probable outcomes, they are a vehicle for either witting or unwitting self-delusion that things will be alright. Thus inertia.
A war footing where capitalism and growth focus is at least suspended while the world pulls together to try to make a difference, that's the sort of societal shift we need, or else we're dead. |  |
| # WE ARE STEALING THE FUTURE FROM OUR CHILDREN --- WE MUST CHANGE COURSE # | | Poll: | It's driving me nuts |
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| Too late to save the planet? on 13:36 - Mar 2 with 1486 views | Ryorry |
| Too late to save the planet? on 13:09 - Mar 2 by NthQldITFC |
I think the only way is the third way, by which I mean we need to move onto something very akin to a war footing.
Business as usual, which to all intents and purposes is what we have been doing for thirty or so years in the face of ever more evidence is categorically environmental, societal and for most of the human race, death.
Bright and breezy positivity about new schemes or new technologies - I understand the arguments about trying to keep people positive, but these tend to be at best overly optimistic and at worst just new mechanisms for profit-chasing. The biggest danger/threat though is that for vast swathes of the human race who don't have a particularly good grip on the science and the probable outcomes, they are a vehicle for either witting or unwitting self-delusion that things will be alright. Thus inertia.
A war footing where capitalism and growth focus is at least suspended while the world pulls together to try to make a difference, that's the sort of societal shift we need, or else we're dead. |
Was saying to a like-minded neighbour the other day re avian flu, Covid, potential other pandemics, climate change, biodiversity loss etc etc, that it’ll take a global government all people and nations can get behind to act as one.
With megalomaniacs and dictatorships as in Russia and China around tho, it’s not going to happen till it’s got to an obviously catastrophic stage (such as losing a huge chunk of the planet’s land mass, and/or tens of millions of people) - and even then, humans are so stupid that they’re more likely to go to war over it than jaw over it. | |
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| Too late to save the planet? on 13:49 - Mar 2 with 1454 views | NthQldITFC |
| Too late to save the planet? on 13:36 - Mar 2 by Ryorry |
Was saying to a like-minded neighbour the other day re avian flu, Covid, potential other pandemics, climate change, biodiversity loss etc etc, that it’ll take a global government all people and nations can get behind to act as one.
With megalomaniacs and dictatorships as in Russia and China around tho, it’s not going to happen till it’s got to an obviously catastrophic stage (such as losing a huge chunk of the planet’s land mass, and/or tens of millions of people) - and even then, humans are so stupid that they’re more likely to go to war over it than jaw over it. |
This is probably a very naive idea, but what if the 'West' perhaps the EU, the US and satellites said "right, we're going to suspend trade in niknaks and gewgaws for the foreseeable future and we're going to limit drastically the use of fossil fuels by curtailing flying and rationing fuel for road vehicles. We'll also provide a mechanism to freeze certain debts (internationally, B2B and B2C). Government/taxpayers/all of us will fund public services in order for a subsistence-orientated society to arise."
If the 'West' takes away the demand then Russia and China etc. have to fall into line, don't they?
I realise that's an extremely woolly and ill-thought out idea, and people will be thinking that it can't work because of this or that problem relating to things as they are. But that's the point; we need to break (or at least brake) the current system and think in totally new terms if we're going to have any sort of chance. | |
| # WE ARE STEALING THE FUTURE FROM OUR CHILDREN --- WE MUST CHANGE COURSE # | | Poll: | It's driving me nuts |
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| Too late to save the planet? on 13:51 - Mar 2 with 1442 views | homer_123 |
| Too late to save the planet? on 13:49 - Mar 2 by NthQldITFC |
This is probably a very naive idea, but what if the 'West' perhaps the EU, the US and satellites said "right, we're going to suspend trade in niknaks and gewgaws for the foreseeable future and we're going to limit drastically the use of fossil fuels by curtailing flying and rationing fuel for road vehicles. We'll also provide a mechanism to freeze certain debts (internationally, B2B and B2C). Government/taxpayers/all of us will fund public services in order for a subsistence-orientated society to arise."
If the 'West' takes away the demand then Russia and China etc. have to fall into line, don't they?
I realise that's an extremely woolly and ill-thought out idea, and people will be thinking that it can't work because of this or that problem relating to things as they are. But that's the point; we need to break (or at least brake) the current system and think in totally new terms if we're going to have any sort of chance. |
"woolly and ill-thought out idea" - get yourself into Politics - you're ideal! ;) |  |
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| Too late to save the planet? on 13:55 - Mar 2 with 1432 views | NthQldITFC |
| Too late to save the planet? on 13:51 - Mar 2 by homer_123 |
"woolly and ill-thought out idea" - get yourself into Politics - you're ideal! ;) |
I think I'm probably Tory Party standard! | |
| # WE ARE STEALING THE FUTURE FROM OUR CHILDREN --- WE MUST CHANGE COURSE # | | Poll: | It's driving me nuts |
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| Too late to save the planet? on 13:55 - Mar 2 with 1430 views | StokieBlue |
The language used is a bit odd.
The planet and the environment will be fine, just not especially suited for the animals that evolved to those conditions.
Evolution will continue, animals will evolve to meet the new conditions, whether we do is something open to debate.
What he really means to say is we are destroying the environmental conditions we evolved to live in and he would be absolutely right there. If you think about it, it's an extremely stupid thing to do.
SB |  |
| Avatar - M51 - The Whirlpool Galaxy - Taken on 29th April 2024 |
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| Too late to save the planet? on 14:07 - Mar 2 with 1398 views | Ryorry |
| Too late to save the planet? on 13:49 - Mar 2 by NthQldITFC |
This is probably a very naive idea, but what if the 'West' perhaps the EU, the US and satellites said "right, we're going to suspend trade in niknaks and gewgaws for the foreseeable future and we're going to limit drastically the use of fossil fuels by curtailing flying and rationing fuel for road vehicles. We'll also provide a mechanism to freeze certain debts (internationally, B2B and B2C). Government/taxpayers/all of us will fund public services in order for a subsistence-orientated society to arise."
If the 'West' takes away the demand then Russia and China etc. have to fall into line, don't they?
I realise that's an extremely woolly and ill-thought out idea, and people will be thinking that it can't work because of this or that problem relating to things as they are. But that's the point; we need to break (or at least brake) the current system and think in totally new terms if we're going to have any sort of chance. |
I’d vote for it (and you!). | |
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| Too late to save the planet? on 16:01 - Mar 2 with 1297 views | J2BLUE |
| Too late to save the planet? on 13:36 - Mar 2 by Ryorry |
Was saying to a like-minded neighbour the other day re avian flu, Covid, potential other pandemics, climate change, biodiversity loss etc etc, that it’ll take a global government all people and nations can get behind to act as one.
With megalomaniacs and dictatorships as in Russia and China around tho, it’s not going to happen till it’s got to an obviously catastrophic stage (such as losing a huge chunk of the planet’s land mass, and/or tens of millions of people) - and even then, humans are so stupid that they’re more likely to go to war over it than jaw over it. |
I don't see any way a global government could work on any practical level. | |
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| Too late to save the planet? on 16:08 - Mar 2 with 1285 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| Too late to save the planet? on 16:01 - Mar 2 by J2BLUE |
I don't see any way a global government could work on any practical level. |
That's what they want you to think... |  |
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| Too late to save the planet? on 16:14 - Mar 2 with 1278 views | NthQldITFC |
| Too late to save the planet? on 13:55 - Mar 2 by StokieBlue |
The language used is a bit odd.
The planet and the environment will be fine, just not especially suited for the animals that evolved to those conditions.
Evolution will continue, animals will evolve to meet the new conditions, whether we do is something open to debate.
What he really means to say is we are destroying the environmental conditions we evolved to live in and he would be absolutely right there. If you think about it, it's an extremely stupid thing to do.
SB |
Your post (as often) has me trying to stretch my tired old mind to take in science new to me.
Currently reading about runaway greenhouse effects and moist greenhouse limits and various laws and limits and assumed models (which always seem to be named after a pair of scientists).
Your bit about evolution continuing to fill new crevices seems most likely, as the odds are against a boiled dry planet by the sound of things, but with us humans as the driving factor, the speed of change might mean that that evolution has to start again from a very low base. | |
| # WE ARE STEALING THE FUTURE FROM OUR CHILDREN --- WE MUST CHANGE COURSE # | | Poll: | It's driving me nuts |
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| Too late to save the planet? on 16:49 - Mar 2 with 1236 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Too late to save the planet? on 13:49 - Mar 2 by NthQldITFC |
This is probably a very naive idea, but what if the 'West' perhaps the EU, the US and satellites said "right, we're going to suspend trade in niknaks and gewgaws for the foreseeable future and we're going to limit drastically the use of fossil fuels by curtailing flying and rationing fuel for road vehicles. We'll also provide a mechanism to freeze certain debts (internationally, B2B and B2C). Government/taxpayers/all of us will fund public services in order for a subsistence-orientated society to arise."
If the 'West' takes away the demand then Russia and China etc. have to fall into line, don't they?
I realise that's an extremely woolly and ill-thought out idea, and people will be thinking that it can't work because of this or that problem relating to things as they are. But that's the point; we need to break (or at least brake) the current system and think in totally new terms if we're going to have any sort of chance. |
“ If the 'West' takes away the demand then Russia and China etc. have to fall into line, don't they? ”
Unfortunately, as the last couple of years has shown that simply is naive. Authoritarian countries such as those value other things over money - spreading their ideology, solidifying power and growing their military. Germany tried bringing Russia into the global economy and that was no deterrent to conflict. Sanctions have limited effect as the West is not the world, and plenty of other nations will continue to trade with them.
Similarly China were pretty much the only major economy to grow in 2020 despite huge drop offs in global trade and economic contractions of upto 20pc in the west, and one of the only country where air passenger number didn’t drop. They also grew in spite of Trumps trade barriers. China don’t need us as much as we think they do.
Maybe I’m just cynical… |  | | |
| Too late to save the planet? on 18:21 - Mar 2 with 1098 views | Ryorry |
| Too late to save the planet? on 16:01 - Mar 2 by J2BLUE |
I don't see any way a global government could work on any practical level. |
I was thinking along the lines of something like the WHO or NATO. | |
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| Too late to save the planet? on 21:23 - Mar 2 with 1019 views | You_Bloo_Right |
| Too late to save the planet? on 13:49 - Mar 2 by NthQldITFC |
This is probably a very naive idea, but what if the 'West' perhaps the EU, the US and satellites said "right, we're going to suspend trade in niknaks and gewgaws for the foreseeable future and we're going to limit drastically the use of fossil fuels by curtailing flying and rationing fuel for road vehicles. We'll also provide a mechanism to freeze certain debts (internationally, B2B and B2C). Government/taxpayers/all of us will fund public services in order for a subsistence-orientated society to arise."
If the 'West' takes away the demand then Russia and China etc. have to fall into line, don't they?
I realise that's an extremely woolly and ill-thought out idea, and people will be thinking that it can't work because of this or that problem relating to things as they are. But that's the point; we need to break (or at least brake) the current system and think in totally new terms if we're going to have any sort of chance. |
"The Work we are going about is this, To dig up Georges-Hill and the waste Ground thereabouts, and to Sow Corn, and to eat our bread together by the sweat of our brows. And the First Reason is this, That we may work in righteousness, and lay the Foundation of making the Earth a Common Treasury for All, both Rich and Poor, That every one that is born in the land, may be fed by the Earth his Mother that brought him forth, according to the Reason that rules in the Creation."
Gerard Winstanley, April 20 1649 |  |
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| Too late to save the planet? on 21:57 - Mar 2 with 977 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Too late to save the planet? on 21:23 - Mar 2 by You_Bloo_Right |
"The Work we are going about is this, To dig up Georges-Hill and the waste Ground thereabouts, and to Sow Corn, and to eat our bread together by the sweat of our brows. And the First Reason is this, That we may work in righteousness, and lay the Foundation of making the Earth a Common Treasury for All, both Rich and Poor, That every one that is born in the land, may be fed by the Earth his Mother that brought him forth, according to the Reason that rules in the Creation."
Gerard Winstanley, April 20 1649 |
So that worked out well....if you like golf!!
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_George's_Hill |  |
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| Too late to save the planet? on 22:25 - Mar 2 with 931 views | HARRY10 |
Trying to ensure the message gets out ia always hindered when liars muddy the waters
"Johnson told LBC Radio: " Labour put in a load of wind farms that failed to pull the skin off a rice pudding"
Much as with his support for Putin in his 2014 invasion of the Crimea. However there is an interesting thought here
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/mar/02/co2-emissions-may-be-startin | | | |
| Too late to save the planet? on 17:16 - Mar 3 with 756 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Too late to save the planet? on 13:49 - Mar 2 by NthQldITFC |
This is probably a very naive idea, but what if the 'West' perhaps the EU, the US and satellites said "right, we're going to suspend trade in niknaks and gewgaws for the foreseeable future and we're going to limit drastically the use of fossil fuels by curtailing flying and rationing fuel for road vehicles. We'll also provide a mechanism to freeze certain debts (internationally, B2B and B2C). Government/taxpayers/all of us will fund public services in order for a subsistence-orientated society to arise."
If the 'West' takes away the demand then Russia and China etc. have to fall into line, don't they?
I realise that's an extremely woolly and ill-thought out idea, and people will be thinking that it can't work because of this or that problem relating to things as they are. But that's the point; we need to break (or at least brake) the current system and think in totally new terms if we're going to have any sort of chance. |
Don’t you remember all the cry babies losing their sh*t about being asked to wear a mask to help protect vulnerable people? There’s no way a government would get away with a flight ban/rationing. And besides the people making the decisions are often beholden to the corporate donors whose money put them in power, so are unlikely to come up with such policies.
Nice idea and we need something radical like this, but I can’t see it happening. It’d be manageable from a practical perspective - Zoom could take away much need for business travel and you can have perfectly good holidays without flying. But that’s a separate issue to getting things like that accepted.
And the next big drain on energy is actually data (ironically, Zoom is part of that problem). Something like a third of the US’s new energy generation over the next few decades will be needed for data centres. Just so people like us can chat on TWTD (most of it is for videos and streaming actually - edit - e.g. think how much energy is needed to stream football matches around the world via VPNs to bypass local broadcast restrictions). [Post edited 3 Mar 2023 17:20]
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| Too late to save the planet? on 17:39 - Mar 3 with 727 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Too late to save the planet? on 13:03 - Mar 2 by Ryorry |
I’ve been saying for 25 years that R, D and investing in renewables - including forestry, particularly in areas where the steel industry redundancies occurred, which would have been eminently suitable - would be wonderful for both UK economy & obviously the planet.
Sadly, politicians, esp Tories, have always been too corruptly invested in ffs.
Btw, anyone been watching the BBC4 recent rerun of Edge of Darkness? 35 years ahead of its time. |
There’s a bit of a push now to focus on green and blue tech in former industrial areas, but it all seems a bit too little and too late. As you say, it’s not as if we haven’t known about this for decades. Seems a no brainer really - I suppose some people have read the winds and done ok out of it so far (e.g. Musk/Tesla). You think there’d be a lot more money yet to be made and a lot more interest. | |
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| Too late to save the planet? on 10:25 - Mar 4 with 563 views | StokieBlue |
| Too late to save the planet? on 09:08 - Mar 4 by NthQldITFC |
although...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-64842394
In a nutshell.
The Dutch government taking a tiny step in response to the concerns of its people:
They pointed to the ministry's decision to reduce the number of flights, which highlights that residents are concerned about noise pollution and "the impact of the airport on their health, the natural environment and the climate more generally."
Then you have dangerous fantasy crap like:
"The aviation industry is pursuing a net-zero CO2 emissions goal. This will be achieved primarily through sustainable aviation fuels and new technology. Displacing flights from one airport to another is not going to tackle aviation emissions," an IATA spokesperson told BBC News. [Post edited 4 Mar 2023 9:12]
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France are in the progress of banning all internal flights where a train can do the journey in under 2.5 hours:
https://www.euronews.com/green/2022/12/02/is-france-banning-private-jets-everyth
An absolutely sensible policy which would be great if adopted by other countries. Nobody really needs to fly internally in England for instance, that includes the Town squad who seem to be doing it a bit lately.
SB | |
| Avatar - M51 - The Whirlpool Galaxy - Taken on 29th April 2024 |
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| Too late to save the planet? on 10:31 - Mar 4 with 548 views | NthQldITFC |
| Too late to save the planet? on 10:25 - Mar 4 by StokieBlue |
France are in the progress of banning all internal flights where a train can do the journey in under 2.5 hours:
https://www.euronews.com/green/2022/12/02/is-france-banning-private-jets-everyth
An absolutely sensible policy which would be great if adopted by other countries. Nobody really needs to fly internally in England for instance, that includes the Town squad who seem to be doing it a bit lately.
SB |
That's good news. Vive la France! | |
| # WE ARE STEALING THE FUTURE FROM OUR CHILDREN --- WE MUST CHANGE COURSE # | | Poll: | It's driving me nuts |
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| Too late to save the planet? on 10:38 - Mar 4 with 542 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Too late to save the planet? on 10:25 - Mar 4 by StokieBlue |
France are in the progress of banning all internal flights where a train can do the journey in under 2.5 hours:
https://www.euronews.com/green/2022/12/02/is-france-banning-private-jets-everyth
An absolutely sensible policy which would be great if adopted by other countries. Nobody really needs to fly internally in England for instance, that includes the Town squad who seem to be doing it a bit lately.
SB |
Agreed....the price of rail travel needs sorting over here too though. | |
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