| Raab ‘resigns’ 09:51 - Apr 21 with 3236 views | SitfcB |
[Post edited 21 Apr 2023 9:52]
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| Raab ‘resigns’ on 09:56 - Apr 21 with 2385 views | Steve_M |
What a massive blub that is too. [Post edited 21 Apr 2023 10:23]
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| Raab ‘resigns’ on 10:00 - Apr 21 with 2349 views | Whos_blue |
Good riddance to bad rubbish.
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| Distortion becomes somehow pure in its wildness. |
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| Raab ‘resigns’ on 10:01 - Apr 21 with 2344 views | homer_123 |
| Raab ‘resigns’ on 09:56 - Apr 21 by Steve_M |
What a massive blub that is too. [Post edited 21 Apr 2023 10:23]
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I stopped reading at 'keeping my word.' |  |
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| Raab ‘resigns’ on 10:15 - Apr 21 with 2273 views | ElderGrizzly |
A resignation without an apology and basically saying "well it was only 2 counts of bullying"
Never forget he should have been long out of Government over his role on the Afghan evacuation and his "the sea was closed" moment.
He's a bully and he is wholly incompetent. |  | | |
| Raab ‘resigns’ on 10:16 - Apr 21 with 2259 views | DJR |
I wonder if Sunak will now keep to his pledge to release the report in full because some of the facts may be unpalatable.
If he doesn't (but even if he does), it enables the whole episode to be dressed up as woke or snowflake civil servants (part of the blob) out to topple a Conservative government.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/the-woke-blob-want-to-destroy-the-country- [Post edited 21 Apr 2023 10:20]
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| Raab ‘resigns’ on 10:19 - Apr 21 with 2238 views | hype313 |
"By setting the bullying bar so low"
Shouldn't the bar for bullying be on the floor? |  |
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| Raab ‘resigns’ on 10:19 - Apr 21 with 2236 views | BlueNomad |
| Raab ‘resigns’ on 10:16 - Apr 21 by DJR |
I wonder if Sunak will now keep to his pledge to release the report in full because some of the facts may be unpalatable.
If he doesn't (but even if he does), it enables the whole episode to be dressed up as woke or snowflake civil servants (part of the blob) out to topple a Conservative government.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/the-woke-blob-want-to-destroy-the-country- [Post edited 21 Apr 2023 10:20]
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The evil from Trump's playbook continues to seep itself into our country.
"Woke" = being a reasonable, open-minded, tolerant person. |  | | |
| Raab ‘resigns’ on 10:23 - Apr 21 with 2200 views | DJR |
| Raab ‘resigns’ on 10:19 - Apr 21 by BlueNomad |
The evil from Trump's playbook continues to seep itself into our country.
"Woke" = being a reasonable, open-minded, tolerant person. |
Absolutely.
I'm proud to be woke. | | | |
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| Raab ‘resigns’ on 10:24 - Apr 21 with 2189 views | clive_baker |
Shame to see him go, what with him having done such a good job. |  |
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| Raab ‘resigns’ on 10:26 - Apr 21 with 2160 views | BlueNomad |
| Raab ‘resigns’ on 10:24 - Apr 21 by clive_baker |
Shame to see him go, what with him having done such a good job. |
He's going to leave the country by Dover as, a couple of years ago, he discovered it is a major port | | | |
| Raab ‘resigns’ on 10:39 - Apr 21 with 2082 views | homer_123 |
| Raab ‘resigns’ on 10:19 - Apr 21 by hype313 |
"By setting the bullying bar so low"
Shouldn't the bar for bullying be on the floor? |
Indeed, no need for 'any' bullying. | |
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| Raab ‘resigns’ on 11:21 - Apr 21 with 1959 views | ElderGrizzly |
And of course he has run to The Telegraph to push the woke angle a bit more.
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| Raab ‘resigns’ on 11:25 - Apr 21 with 1953 views | DJR |
| Raab ‘resigns’ on 11:21 - Apr 21 by ElderGrizzly |
And of course he has run to The Telegraph to push the woke angle a bit more.
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It's their only hope but it is a scorched earth policy, and if it doesn't succeed, it appears to be designed to take down the country with them. | | | |
| Raab ‘resigns’ on 11:31 - Apr 21 with 1935 views | tractordownsouth |
Good to see another senior figure in the self-proclaimed 'party of personal responsibility' taking absolutely no personal responsibility for their actions. |  |
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| Raab ‘resigns’ on 12:52 - Apr 21 with 1819 views | itfcjoe |
| Raab ‘resigns’ on 11:21 - Apr 21 by ElderGrizzly |
And of course he has run to The Telegraph to push the woke angle a bit more.
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He is obviously right, you need this attitude in order to foster the high performing culture he has clearly seen displayed when he was in the FO with Afghanistan.........or in the Justice department which is brilliantly run at the moment and definitely not a natural embarrassment
If these comments were coming from a high performing minister getting things done they may carry some weight |  |
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| Raab ‘resigns’ on 13:31 - Apr 21 with 1704 views | Churchman |
| Raab ‘resigns’ on 10:15 - Apr 21 by ElderGrizzly |
A resignation without an apology and basically saying "well it was only 2 counts of bullying"
Never forget he should have been long out of Government over his role on the Afghan evacuation and his "the sea was closed" moment.
He's a bully and he is wholly incompetent. |
I knew about Raab when he was in charge of DExEU. I never heard any hint of him bullying. He was though regarded and utterly useless. Incompetence with no limit. How a spud like that ever got near government tells you all you need to know about the Conservatives.
His letter is pathetic. This idea of ‘pace standards and challenge’ along with encouraging ‘spurious complaints against Ministers’ and having a ‘chilling effect on those driving change’ is typical blame deflection and contempt for public servants. They view the CS as blockers. The dead hand.
The reality is the opposite and just like their trashing of the country, their own accountability is zero. It’s always somebody else’s fault.
Ministers know that they can abuse to the point of a DG having to wipe the spit off their faces and they have no right to respond other than resign. Verbal abuse? Well if you can’t stand the heat of the kitchen is the basic attitude. A sort of Simpson macho thing with people thicker than Homer. And it utterly misses the point.
Everyone should be treated with respect and spoken to as you would wish to be spoken to, whether they are Ministers or the people doing the post. This has nothing to do with working at pace etc.
Raaaaaaab doesn’t seem to understand that Government sets policy. Civil Servants implement it. Measures proposed by government ministers all the time. In any given year they run into 100s. The CS will take these, scope them out, costings, impact, benefits, risks etc and they then go back to ministers with findings and recommendations before they are submitted to the house in a fiscal event. Ministers then decide and the CS then implements.
That was the process until Truss decided we don’t need experts or do any work. The fag packet ‘just do it’ we know best/had enough of experts (Gove) was the way to go. That went well. The CS would have even examined the feasibility of Brexit had they been allowed to. Cameron knew better. Oh.
The failings of this bunch of chancers and loons are almost limitless. Years of desperate stupidity wrapped up in low level sixth form debate at chinless wonders school of idiots. If Sunak had any bottle he’d tell that snivelling bully Raaaaaaaaaab that his resignation dribble was to be printed on absorbent tissue and left in every bog in the HoC so that it could find some use.
Edit: I’ve worked with people who worked directly to Blair and Thatcher. Like or loathe them, my understanding is that they never felt the need to behave like Raab. Maybe they were a bit soft and weak eh, Dominic? Tool. [Post edited 21 Apr 2023 13:43]
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| Raab ‘resigns’ on 13:58 - Apr 21 with 1643 views | DJR |
| Raab ‘resigns’ on 11:21 - Apr 21 by ElderGrizzly |
And of course he has run to The Telegraph to push the woke angle a bit more.
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Raab's article in the Telegraph brings up two issues which are a complete nonsense.
1. He complains that some of the complaints were with respect to things which happened over three months ago, and in some cases much longer than that. But this complaint has to be seen in the context of the balance of power he had, and a complaints system for civil servant which is completely inadequate. In addition, the implication from what he is saying seems to be that there should be a similar cut-off for complaints of sexual abuse and the like.
2. He states the legal definition of bullying requires intention which is wrong (and, as a lawyer, he must know this).
This is what ACAS says about bullying, this description being virtual identical to that in a judicial review case the FDA took in relation to the Patel bullying case.
"Although there is no legal definition of bullying, it can be described as unwanted behaviour from a person or group that is either:
offensive, intimidating, malicious or insulting, or
an abuse or misuse of power that undermines, humiliates, or causes physical or emotional harm to someone"
Interestingly, the report refers in a few cases to Raab's behaviour not being intentional. I am not sure why the report says this, as intention is not relevant, and thus the report seems to me to excuse Raab's behaviour. [Post edited 21 Apr 2023 14:14]
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| Raab ‘resigns’ on 14:19 - Apr 21 with 1571 views | DJR |
| Raab ‘resigns’ on 13:31 - Apr 21 by Churchman |
I knew about Raab when he was in charge of DExEU. I never heard any hint of him bullying. He was though regarded and utterly useless. Incompetence with no limit. How a spud like that ever got near government tells you all you need to know about the Conservatives.
His letter is pathetic. This idea of ‘pace standards and challenge’ along with encouraging ‘spurious complaints against Ministers’ and having a ‘chilling effect on those driving change’ is typical blame deflection and contempt for public servants. They view the CS as blockers. The dead hand.
The reality is the opposite and just like their trashing of the country, their own accountability is zero. It’s always somebody else’s fault.
Ministers know that they can abuse to the point of a DG having to wipe the spit off their faces and they have no right to respond other than resign. Verbal abuse? Well if you can’t stand the heat of the kitchen is the basic attitude. A sort of Simpson macho thing with people thicker than Homer. And it utterly misses the point.
Everyone should be treated with respect and spoken to as you would wish to be spoken to, whether they are Ministers or the people doing the post. This has nothing to do with working at pace etc.
Raaaaaaab doesn’t seem to understand that Government sets policy. Civil Servants implement it. Measures proposed by government ministers all the time. In any given year they run into 100s. The CS will take these, scope them out, costings, impact, benefits, risks etc and they then go back to ministers with findings and recommendations before they are submitted to the house in a fiscal event. Ministers then decide and the CS then implements.
That was the process until Truss decided we don’t need experts or do any work. The fag packet ‘just do it’ we know best/had enough of experts (Gove) was the way to go. That went well. The CS would have even examined the feasibility of Brexit had they been allowed to. Cameron knew better. Oh.
The failings of this bunch of chancers and loons are almost limitless. Years of desperate stupidity wrapped up in low level sixth form debate at chinless wonders school of idiots. If Sunak had any bottle he’d tell that snivelling bully Raaaaaaaaaab that his resignation dribble was to be printed on absorbent tissue and left in every bog in the HoC so that it could find some use.
Edit: I’ve worked with people who worked directly to Blair and Thatcher. Like or loathe them, my understanding is that they never felt the need to behave like Raab. Maybe they were a bit soft and weak eh, Dominic? Tool. [Post edited 21 Apr 2023 13:43]
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I worked in the Cabinet Office under Thatcher, Major, Blair and Brown, in an office that had close dealings with ministers from all departments.
In all those years, I always felt that ministers were very supportive of the Civil Service.
That all changed for me in 2010 when I sensed the influx of a number of ministers, and a party generally, hostile to the Civil Service.
Luckily, I left the Civil Service in 2011, so didn't get to see the full horrors. But I think the change from 2010 is indicative of a new breed of politicians in the Tory party of very low calibre and integrity. | | | |
| Raab ‘resigns’ on 14:31 - Apr 21 with 1553 views | DJR |
| Raab ‘resigns’ on 14:19 - Apr 21 by DJR |
I worked in the Cabinet Office under Thatcher, Major, Blair and Brown, in an office that had close dealings with ministers from all departments.
In all those years, I always felt that ministers were very supportive of the Civil Service.
That all changed for me in 2010 when I sensed the influx of a number of ministers, and a party generally, hostile to the Civil Service.
Luckily, I left the Civil Service in 2011, so didn't get to see the full horrors. But I think the change from 2010 is indicative of a new breed of politicians in the Tory party of very low calibre and integrity. |
In terms of calibre (if not necessarily integrity), Oliver Dowden as Deputy Prime Minister proves my point. [Post edited 21 Apr 2023 16:22]
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| Raab ‘resigns’ on 16:26 - Apr 21 with 1437 views | DJR |
| Raab ‘resigns’ on 13:58 - Apr 21 by DJR |
Raab's article in the Telegraph brings up two issues which are a complete nonsense.
1. He complains that some of the complaints were with respect to things which happened over three months ago, and in some cases much longer than that. But this complaint has to be seen in the context of the balance of power he had, and a complaints system for civil servant which is completely inadequate. In addition, the implication from what he is saying seems to be that there should be a similar cut-off for complaints of sexual abuse and the like.
2. He states the legal definition of bullying requires intention which is wrong (and, as a lawyer, he must know this).
This is what ACAS says about bullying, this description being virtual identical to that in a judicial review case the FDA took in relation to the Patel bullying case.
"Although there is no legal definition of bullying, it can be described as unwanted behaviour from a person or group that is either:
offensive, intimidating, malicious or insulting, or
an abuse or misuse of power that undermines, humiliates, or causes physical or emotional harm to someone"
Interestingly, the report refers in a few cases to Raab's behaviour not being intentional. I am not sure why the report says this, as intention is not relevant, and thus the report seems to me to excuse Raab's behaviour. [Post edited 21 Apr 2023 14:14]
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I see the Guardian has just confirmed the second point I made, but this does explain why the report referred to intention.
"One of the complaints Dominic Raab made in his Telegraph article about how the allegations about him were investigated was that Adam Tolley assumed bullying did not have to be intentional. That was wrong, Raab claimed. “[Tolley] did not conclude it was intentional — which is the legal requirement under the definition of bullying,” Raab wrote.
Raab made the same argument in a submission to Tolley, and in his report Tolley says Raab is wrong on this point. He says the high court considered what constituted bullying under the ministerial code in a case in 2021 and the high court took the view that “conduct can amount to bullying even though the perpetrator is not aware of and does not intend its adverse effect”.
Tolley said intent was relevant to the seriousness of bullying, not whether conduct counted as bullying in the first place." [Post edited 21 Apr 2023 16:27]
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| Raab ‘resigns’ on 16:36 - Apr 21 with 1402 views | Herbivore |
| Raab ‘resigns’ on 16:26 - Apr 21 by DJR |
I see the Guardian has just confirmed the second point I made, but this does explain why the report referred to intention.
"One of the complaints Dominic Raab made in his Telegraph article about how the allegations about him were investigated was that Adam Tolley assumed bullying did not have to be intentional. That was wrong, Raab claimed. “[Tolley] did not conclude it was intentional — which is the legal requirement under the definition of bullying,” Raab wrote.
Raab made the same argument in a submission to Tolley, and in his report Tolley says Raab is wrong on this point. He says the high court considered what constituted bullying under the ministerial code in a case in 2021 and the high court took the view that “conduct can amount to bullying even though the perpetrator is not aware of and does not intend its adverse effect”.
Tolley said intent was relevant to the seriousness of bullying, not whether conduct counted as bullying in the first place." [Post edited 21 Apr 2023 16:27]
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In fairness, if Raab had intended to insult someone he'd probably have ended up complimenting them, so I think the fact he was a successful bully actually proves there was no intent to bully on his part. |  |
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| Raab ‘resigns’ on 16:43 - Apr 21 with 1367 views | Churchman |
| Raab ‘resigns’ on 16:26 - Apr 21 by DJR |
I see the Guardian has just confirmed the second point I made, but this does explain why the report referred to intention.
"One of the complaints Dominic Raab made in his Telegraph article about how the allegations about him were investigated was that Adam Tolley assumed bullying did not have to be intentional. That was wrong, Raab claimed. “[Tolley] did not conclude it was intentional — which is the legal requirement under the definition of bullying,” Raab wrote.
Raab made the same argument in a submission to Tolley, and in his report Tolley says Raab is wrong on this point. He says the high court considered what constituted bullying under the ministerial code in a case in 2021 and the high court took the view that “conduct can amount to bullying even though the perpetrator is not aware of and does not intend its adverse effect”.
Tolley said intent was relevant to the seriousness of bullying, not whether conduct counted as bullying in the first place." [Post edited 21 Apr 2023 16:27]
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Tolley and High Court are correct on this. Raab, as ever, is wrong.
He knew what he was doing too. Bullies always do. He’s just trying to wheedle out of it. It’s the Civil Servants fault, I’m just trying to get things done, I needed to spur them into action, I blame Gladstone the cat, kicking somebody around is encouragement not bullying, I’m good, they are all lazy and useless etc etc. I’ve heard it all before. Seen it too.
Raab: you’re a weak unpleasant inadequate individual who was hopeless at your job. Suck it up, ya plank. | | | |
| Raab ‘resigns’ on 16:53 - Apr 21 with 1346 views | Clapham_Junction |
| Raab ‘resigns’ on 11:21 - Apr 21 by ElderGrizzly |
And of course he has run to The Telegraph to push the woke angle a bit more.
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The whole plain speaking thing is just an insult to people's intelligence. A half decent senior manager or politician can absolutely challenge proposals or assumptions without being an aggressive d1ckhead. |  | | |
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