| London ULEZ expansion question 12:45 - Jun 1 with 7881 views | Trequartista |
I read that the London ULEZ is expanding to all London boroughs in August. The M25 between the A12 junction and the Dartford Crossing goes through London. So will there be a charge for using this section of the M25 in a non-ULEZ compliant vehicle? |  |
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| London ULEZ expansion question on 13:23 - Jun 1 with 4073 views | Swansea_Blue |
That's certainly how the French ones work |  |
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| London ULEZ expansion question on 13:26 - Jun 1 with 4058 views | Lord_Lucan |
The ULEZ expansion is a fecking criminal act |  |
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| London ULEZ expansion question on 13:29 - Jun 1 with 4056 views | Trequartista |
Ah I see, the LEZ already uses the same boundaries that the ULEZ will expand to so we would assume it will adopt the same rules. Thank you.
It’s actually not possible to leave or join the M25 in London, so that won’t be an issue either. | |
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| London ULEZ expansion question on 13:32 - Jun 1 with 4049 views | ElderGrizzly |
The absurdity of it is that Heathrow will be within it I believe.
Good job there isn't anything polluting in that area... |  | | |
| London ULEZ expansion question on 15:05 - Jun 1 with 3911 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| London ULEZ expansion question on 13:26 - Jun 1 by Lord_Lucan |
The ULEZ expansion is a fecking criminal act |
Unless I’m missing something it seems like a tax on the poor/less well off who are less likely to be able to afford a modern compliant vehicle?
It seems likely to force those less affluent off the road as an additional cost. The wealthy will just pay it and continue tailgating people round London in their Range Rover Sports. |  | | |
| London ULEZ expansion question on 15:12 - Jun 1 with 3887 views | StokieBlue |
| London ULEZ expansion question on 15:05 - Jun 1 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Unless I’m missing something it seems like a tax on the poor/less well off who are less likely to be able to afford a modern compliant vehicle?
It seems likely to force those less affluent off the road as an additional cost. The wealthy will just pay it and continue tailgating people round London in their Range Rover Sports. |
It's not really as simple as that.
The current ULEZ has reduced air pollution by between 20% and 50% depending on where you are in the ULEZ zone. That is especially important for children during their development.
It would be interesting to see how the emissions reductions correlate with LTN's but I've not looked for or seen that data.
Certainly you could be right that richer people ignore it but I've also not seen any evidence of that - surely they are more likely to buy an electric car and be exempt.
SB |  | | |
| London ULEZ expansion question on 15:19 - Jun 1 with 3847 views | Lord_Lucan |
| London ULEZ expansion question on 15:05 - Jun 1 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Unless I’m missing something it seems like a tax on the poor/less well off who are less likely to be able to afford a modern compliant vehicle?
It seems likely to force those less affluent off the road as an additional cost. The wealthy will just pay it and continue tailgating people round London in their Range Rover Sports. |
Exactly. They aren't stopping you for polluting, they are just charging you to pollute.
It's been completely railroaded through, criminal i tell ya.
Khan reckons it only affects one in ten motorists - which I find hard to believe, but if this is the case then in a few years when the one in ten cars are scrapped it's problem solved and no need to have spent billions on the infrastructure.
Side note - the most polluted part of London is actually the London Underground network. [Post edited 1 Jun 2023 15:19]
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| London ULEZ expansion question on 15:40 - Jun 1 with 3781 views | Lord_Lucan |
"The A406 ULEZ made 225m last year"
And you are happy with this scheme are you?
What is it, £12.50 a day - to enter the M25? That's really going to help the average bod in the street isn't it.
FFS | |
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| London ULEZ expansion question on 15:46 - Jun 1 with 3721 views | StokieBlue |
| London ULEZ expansion question on 15:40 - Jun 1 by Lord_Lucan |
"The A406 ULEZ made 225m last year"
And you are happy with this scheme are you?
What is it, £12.50 a day - to enter the M25? That's really going to help the average bod in the street isn't it.
FFS |
I'm pretty happy with it yes given my air quality has improved [1].
Who is this "average bod in the street" of whom you speak? I'm sure they enjoy the improved air quality as well, especially given over 90% of people within the ULEZ zone have vehicles that qualify and don't have to pay anything [2].
Can I ask why you have an issue with it given you live in Suffolk?
SB
[1]. "The ULEZ has already been hugely successful in central and inner London, helping to reduce harmful nitrogen dioxide (NO2) levels by 46 per cent in central London and 21 per cent in inner London.[2]. "
[2]. https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-releases/2023/march/over-90-per-cent-of- | | | |
| London ULEZ expansion question on 15:46 - Jun 1 with 3717 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| London ULEZ expansion question on 15:12 - Jun 1 by StokieBlue |
It's not really as simple as that.
The current ULEZ has reduced air pollution by between 20% and 50% depending on where you are in the ULEZ zone. That is especially important for children during their development.
It would be interesting to see how the emissions reductions correlate with LTN's but I've not looked for or seen that data.
Certainly you could be right that richer people ignore it but I've also not seen any evidence of that - surely they are more likely to buy an electric car and be exempt.
SB |
“Certainly you could be right that richer people ignore it but I've also not seen any evidence of that - surely they are more likely to buy an electric car and be exempt.”
Well quite - those on lower incomes are unlikely to be able to afford such luxuries. It will disproportionately hit the less well off. I don’t live in London so I don’t feel particularly strongly either way, but it doesn’t strike me as particularly progressive in that respect.
Assume also it will lead to price inflation on goods inside the M25 as firms pass on the cost of the charge, or upgrading their fleets to EV’s. | | | |
| London ULEZ expansion question on 16:22 - Jun 1 with 3610 views | hype313 |
It's going to happen to Ipswich soon, numerous articles in the Star about how certain parts of Ipswich has some of the worst quality air in the country.
Not that it would be an issue, hardly anyone goes into town, and when they do, they turn back around due to the road closures and temporary traffic lights. |  |
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| London ULEZ expansion question on 16:31 - Jun 1 with 3587 views | Swansea_Blue |
I get why people dislike the charges, as it's a form of green wash to let people carry on with the activity. It is also disproportionately expensive for the less well off and becomes less of an incentive to change for tho e with more disposable income.
But I don't see why people fight the concept. Why would anyone not want cleaner air to breath? Why would anyone oppose measures to restrict traffic in their neighborhoods, so that it makes it a quieter, safer place to live?
The 15 minute city conspiracies around this are nuts too. We don't have ULEZ s over here so I'm not sure why there's so much opposition. Has it become politicised, so people fall into usual political tribal camps over them? | |
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| London ULEZ expansion question on 16:33 - Jun 1 with 3582 views | Swansea_Blue |
| London ULEZ expansion question on 13:32 - Jun 1 by ElderGrizzly |
The absurdity of it is that Heathrow will be within it I believe.
Good job there isn't anything polluting in that area... |
They've reduced the speed limit to 50mph on the M4 around the east side of Swansea and Port Talbot due to elevated air pollution. It's in the area downwind of Port Talbot steel works, but I'm sure that's just a coincidence  | |
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| London ULEZ expansion question on 16:42 - Jun 1 with 3562 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| London ULEZ expansion question on 16:31 - Jun 1 by Swansea_Blue |
I get why people dislike the charges, as it's a form of green wash to let people carry on with the activity. It is also disproportionately expensive for the less well off and becomes less of an incentive to change for tho e with more disposable income.
But I don't see why people fight the concept. Why would anyone not want cleaner air to breath? Why would anyone oppose measures to restrict traffic in their neighborhoods, so that it makes it a quieter, safer place to live?
The 15 minute city conspiracies around this are nuts too. We don't have ULEZ s over here so I'm not sure why there's so much opposition. Has it become politicised, so people fall into usual political tribal camps over them? |
“But I don't see why people fight the concept. Why would anyone not want cleaner air to breath? Why would anyone oppose measures to restrict traffic in their neighborhoods, so that it makes it a quieter, safer place to live? ”
I just think it’s a poorly worked concept. Perhaps it could be means tested priced based on your income, or council tax banding or something. Otherwise we go back to the 30s/40s where only the wealthy have access to vehicles.
As for London it makes sense - there’s affordable mass transit with a well connected network. Places like Ipswich need a viable alternative, I gave up using the park and ride as it’s utter g@sh compared to the services in other large towns. | | | |
| London ULEZ expansion question on 16:56 - Jun 1 with 3519 views | ElephantintheRoom |
Possibly if you are going to Heathrow.
Closer to home there’s something similar afoot in Cambridge. That’ll be fun | |
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| London ULEZ expansion question on 18:17 - Jun 1 with 3418 views | Coastalblue |
I have no real issue with the ULEZ, and I live in the current zone. It doesn't require a particularly new or expensive car to be exempt, even my 10 year old diesel qualifies.
It's the LTN's that I think have been less well thought out and am not convinced are working as intended in all areas. |  |
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| London ULEZ expansion question on 18:25 - Jun 1 with 3385 views | Swansea_Blue |
| London ULEZ expansion question on 18:17 - Jun 1 by Coastalblue |
I have no real issue with the ULEZ, and I live in the current zone. It doesn't require a particularly new or expensive car to be exempt, even my 10 year old diesel qualifies.
It's the LTN's that I think have been less well thought out and am not convinced are working as intended in all areas. |
I think I was getting ULEZ and LTNs confused. It’s the LTNs that have attracted the 15 Minute City conspiracy nutters isn’t it? I’m sure there will be genuine negatives to complain about without making up nonsense. | |
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| London ULEZ expansion question on 18:27 - Jun 1 with 3376 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| London ULEZ expansion question on 13:26 - Jun 1 by Lord_Lucan |
The ULEZ expansion is a fecking criminal act |
Tax on being poor innit! |  |
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| London ULEZ expansion question on 18:34 - Jun 1 with 3351 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| London ULEZ expansion question on 15:40 - Jun 1 by Lord_Lucan |
"The A406 ULEZ made 225m last year"
And you are happy with this scheme are you?
What is it, £12.50 a day - to enter the M25? That's really going to help the average bod in the street isn't it.
FFS |
The rich have already occupied their neighbourhoods and now they want them off the roads. The poor can come in underground, clean their houses, look after their kids and then kindly feck off out of sight. | |
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| London ULEZ expansion question on 18:37 - Jun 1 with 3350 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| London ULEZ expansion question on 15:46 - Jun 1 by StokieBlue |
I'm pretty happy with it yes given my air quality has improved [1].
Who is this "average bod in the street" of whom you speak? I'm sure they enjoy the improved air quality as well, especially given over 90% of people within the ULEZ zone have vehicles that qualify and don't have to pay anything [2].
Can I ask why you have an issue with it given you live in Suffolk?
SB
[1]. "The ULEZ has already been hugely successful in central and inner London, helping to reduce harmful nitrogen dioxide (NO2) levels by 46 per cent in central London and 21 per cent in inner London.[2]. "
[2]. https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-releases/2023/march/over-90-per-cent-of- |
That's because the average bod ain't on your street anymore. Gentrification has turned out nicely! [Post edited 1 Jun 2023 18:44]
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| London ULEZ expansion question on 19:52 - Jun 1 with 3266 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| London ULEZ expansion question on 18:37 - Jun 1 by BanksterDebtSlave |
That's because the average bod ain't on your street anymore. Gentrification has turned out nicely! [Post edited 1 Jun 2023 18:44]
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Average house price in London: >£700k
Average private rental in London: > £2k
There is an average bod on every street somewhere... |  |
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| London ULEZ expansion question on 20:02 - Jun 1 with 3245 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| London ULEZ expansion question on 19:52 - Jun 1 by Ewan_Oozami |
Average house price in London: >£700k
Average private rental in London: > £2k
There is an average bod on every street somewhere... |
But not London median bods! [Post edited 1 Jun 2023 20:05]
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| London ULEZ expansion question on 20:08 - Jun 1 with 3219 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
It's frankly startling, not to say depressing, that supposedly intelligent and enlightened folk can't accept that policies such as these disproportionately affect the poorer in society.
How about a surcharge on electric vehicles to subsidise public transport for people that can't afford greenwash? [Post edited 1 Jun 2023 20:10]
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