| Just realised its the 80th anniversary of Market Garden 09:21 - Sep 22 with 2066 views | Keno |
AKA 'A Bridge to Far'
Monty wasnt wrong in the idea and had it worked could have made the post war Europe look rather different |  |
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| Just realised its the 80th anniversary of Market Garden on 10:15 - Sep 22 with 2000 views | factual_blue |
And, despite what the Yanks would have you believe, not his fault.
My mum was in church that Sunday, and went outside to see the planes flying over. |  |
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| Just realised its the 80th anniversary of Market Garden on 10:55 - Sep 22 with 1973 views | Guthrum |
| Just realised its the 80th anniversary of Market Garden on 10:15 - Sep 22 by factual_blue |
And, despite what the Yanks would have you believe, not his fault.
My mum was in church that Sunday, and went outside to see the planes flying over. |
Ironically, not having enough 'planes was one of the key reasons for failure. If the 1st Airborne Division and the Polish Brigade had been landed in one go and driven for the bridge - rather than having to use troops to defend the landing grounds for the second and third lifts on subsequent days - they may have been able to seize a bridgehead in much greater strength and hold out long enough for XXX Corps to arrive. |  |
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| Just realised its the 80th anniversary of Market Garden on 11:35 - Sep 22 with 1871 views | Keno |
Thank you for sharing,
that bought a tear or 2 | |
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| Just realised its the 80th anniversary of Market Garden on 11:37 - Sep 22 with 1867 views | Churchman |
Thanks for that. The link opened just fine. |  | | |
| Just realised its the 80th anniversary of Market Garden on 11:58 - Sep 22 with 1829 views | Swailsey |
This has prompted me to start my annual watch of Band of Brothers. Thank you. |  |
| Who said: "Colin Healy made Cesc Fabregas look like Colin Healy"? | We miss you TLA |
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| Just realised its the 80th anniversary of Market Garden on 12:51 - Sep 22 with 1783 views | ThisIsMyUsername |
Hoping in the next couple of weeks to go and meet a guy who piloted and landed a glider near Arnhem and then fought as infantry.
Also making plans soon to go and meet an RAF veteran who flew in 40 bombing missions over Germany.
They'll be the ninth and tenth Second World War veterans I've met and spent time with since April.
If anyone knows any veterans please let me know. |  |
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| Just realised its the 80th anniversary of Market Garden on 12:56 - Sep 22 with 1768 views | ElephantintheRoom |
Monty was ridiculously wrong. And as the Arnhem region was an SS R&R and training area for two years they were pretty stupid to even try it …. Unless of course nobody could actually break the enigma messages and no one in the Dutch resistance noticed what was going on in their midst for two years.
Had the Americans been allowed to continue on their broad front then perhaps the war could have ended six months earlier - but the western allies had already gifted Eastern Europe to Russia by delaying D-Day for at least a year and then going the long way round via Normandy. |  |
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| Just realised its the 80th anniversary of Market Garden on 12:59 - Sep 22 with 1753 views | Zx1988 |
That's my Sunday afternoon viewing sorted. Especially with it being a rather gray autumnal day here.
One of the best films about WW2, in my opinion. | |
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| Just realised its the 80th anniversary of Market Garden on 14:17 - Sep 22 with 1687 views | Plums |
| Just realised its the 80th anniversary of Market Garden on 12:56 - Sep 22 by ElephantintheRoom |
Monty was ridiculously wrong. And as the Arnhem region was an SS R&R and training area for two years they were pretty stupid to even try it …. Unless of course nobody could actually break the enigma messages and no one in the Dutch resistance noticed what was going on in their midst for two years.
Had the Americans been allowed to continue on their broad front then perhaps the war could have ended six months earlier - but the western allies had already gifted Eastern Europe to Russia by delaying D-Day for at least a year and then going the long way round via Normandy. |
FFS
Gav really needs to stop these contrary AI Python bots posting on here. [Post edited 22 Sep 2024 14:19]
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| Just realised its the 80th anniversary of Market Garden on 14:19 - Sep 22 with 1676 views | Keno |
| Just realised its the 80th anniversary of Market Garden on 12:56 - Sep 22 by ElephantintheRoom |
Monty was ridiculously wrong. And as the Arnhem region was an SS R&R and training area for two years they were pretty stupid to even try it …. Unless of course nobody could actually break the enigma messages and no one in the Dutch resistance noticed what was going on in their midst for two years.
Had the Americans been allowed to continue on their broad front then perhaps the war could have ended six months earlier - but the western allies had already gifted Eastern Europe to Russia by delaying D-Day for at least a year and then going the long way round via Normandy. |
Monty wasn’t wrong, the idea would have moved the war forward, stopped a lot of the V1 and V2 attacks there would have been no bulge and potentially no divided Germany
The execution wasn’t quite right, which it where the issues arose
The US broad front wasn’t expected to end the War before 1945, not helped by the bulge | |
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| Just realised its the 80th anniversary of Market Garden on 16:23 - Sep 22 with 1612 views | Churchman |
| Just realised its the 80th anniversary of Market Garden on 12:56 - Sep 22 by ElephantintheRoom |
Monty was ridiculously wrong. And as the Arnhem region was an SS R&R and training area for two years they were pretty stupid to even try it …. Unless of course nobody could actually break the enigma messages and no one in the Dutch resistance noticed what was going on in their midst for two years.
Had the Americans been allowed to continue on their broad front then perhaps the war could have ended six months earlier - but the western allies had already gifted Eastern Europe to Russia by delaying D-Day for at least a year and then going the long way round via Normandy. |
Try reading stuff that’s out there a little more widely. You may actually learn something.
Your second paragraph in particular is laughably poor, even by your standards. Every line of it. Oh well. OTBC | | | |
| Just realised its the 80th anniversary of Market Garden on 21:09 - Sep 22 with 1522 views | factual_blue |
A number of the airborne forces held as POWs were rather surprised to see a British sailor wheeled in as a fellow POW captured at Arnhem.
Apparently he'd gone on a resupply flight piloted by his brother.
(True story - it's in Cornelius Ryan's book. I'm waiting to get Al Murray's new book about the battle) | |
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| Just realised its the 80th anniversary of Market Garden on 23:32 - Sep 22 with 1454 views | PhilTWTD |
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| Just realised its the 80th anniversary of Market Garden on 00:13 - Sep 23 with 1436 views | Mercian |
| Just realised its the 80th anniversary of Market Garden on 10:15 - Sep 22 by factual_blue |
And, despite what the Yanks would have you believe, not his fault.
My mum was in church that Sunday, and went outside to see the planes flying over. |
It was partly his failure. The whole D Day to victory could have gone smoother if the the two top field commanders in Monty and Patton did not hate each other. Eisenhower and Omar Bradley had a hell of a job keeping them in line. They would have both been sacked had they not been the best commanders The Western Allies had. |  | | |
| Just realised its the 80th anniversary of Market Garden on 05:51 - Sep 23 with 1300 views | Churchman |
| Just realised its the 80th anniversary of Market Garden on 00:13 - Sep 23 by Mercian |
It was partly his failure. The whole D Day to victory could have gone smoother if the the two top field commanders in Monty and Patton did not hate each other. Eisenhower and Omar Bradley had a hell of a job keeping them in line. They would have both been sacked had they not been the best commanders The Western Allies had. |
I think it was Eisenhower who pretty much did the keeping in line as overall commander wasn't it? And what a brilliant job he did given the politics and competing egos involved.
History has been very much( written by the Americans, so Montgomery automatically gets the blame for anything that went wrong or they thought could have gone better. Mind you, he kind of asked for it, in that he was by all accounts a most difficult, odd man. | | | |
| Just realised its the 80th anniversary of Market Garden on 06:44 - Sep 23 with 1283 views | Mercian |
| Just realised its the 80th anniversary of Market Garden on 05:51 - Sep 23 by Churchman |
I think it was Eisenhower who pretty much did the keeping in line as overall commander wasn't it? And what a brilliant job he did given the politics and competing egos involved.
History has been very much( written by the Americans, so Montgomery automatically gets the blame for anything that went wrong or they thought could have gone better. Mind you, he kind of asked for it, in that he was by all accounts a most difficult, odd man. |
It was mainly Eisenhower but Bradley was an excellent second in command and would have done a worthy job if anything had happened to Ike. Monty's main failure was his reluctance to support Patton during The Bulge and Patton's was his reluctance to support Monty in anything. A 60/40 for me with Monty coming out on top. [Post edited 23 Sep 2024 6:45]
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| Just realised its the 80th anniversary of Market Garden on 07:17 - Sep 23 with 1260 views | Churchman |
| Just realised its the 80th anniversary of Market Garden on 06:44 - Sep 23 by Mercian |
It was mainly Eisenhower but Bradley was an excellent second in command and would have done a worthy job if anything had happened to Ike. Monty's main failure was his reluctance to support Patton during The Bulge and Patton's was his reluctance to support Monty in anything. A 60/40 for me with Monty coming out on top. [Post edited 23 Sep 2024 6:45]
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Attached is a diagram of the chain of command 6 June then in September 44. Interesting. | | | |
| Just realised its the 80th anniversary of Market Garden on 08:24 - Sep 23 with 1204 views | ElephantintheRoom |
| Just realised its the 80th anniversary of Market Garden on 07:17 - Sep 23 by Churchman |
Attached is a diagram of the chain of command 6 June then in September 44. Interesting. |
Two slightly lesser known results of the Arnhem fiasco were tens of thousands of Dutch civilians starving to death and suffering life changing health problems in the honger vinter….. and Arnhem resident Audrey Hepburn’s resultant lifelong bowel problem changing perceptions of the ideal woman in Holllywood | |
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