| Woolfie 22:52 - Aug 17 with 6420 views | seblue78 |
Woolfie as much as I love him, and to be fair he was generally very good today (Bobby Moore-esque interception in 2nd half being a point in case) but on at least two occasions he looked woefully short of pace on the turn second half. Pains me to say it but you see why McKenna has been looking at other options at CH. He was caught a few times last year but in the prem its likely to be much more of an issue. |  | | |  |
| Woolfie on 22:56 - Aug 17 with 5712 views | TractorWood |
We play a high line. It's an inevitable risk.
I also doubt Woolfie at this level but thought he did very well generally today. Much better than expected. |  |
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| Woolfie on 23:02 - Aug 17 with 5630 views | pointofblue |
I love how Woolfenden is the one being mostly criticised when he had a great game whilst Davis, at fault for both goals, is being basically let off.
What I would say about his relative lack of pace is it means positioning is especially important. He has developed so much in the past few seasons, so do we think he's incapable of growing further? I actually thought I saw growth in his positioning today.
In terms of signing another CB, I do think we'll be looking to play a back three at times this season - I'm slightly surprised we didn't today. | |
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| Woolfie on 23:04 - Aug 17 with 5595 views | TractorWood |
| Woolfie on 23:02 - Aug 17 by pointofblue |
I love how Woolfenden is the one being mostly criticised when he had a great game whilst Davis, at fault for both goals, is being basically let off.
What I would say about his relative lack of pace is it means positioning is especially important. He has developed so much in the past few seasons, so do we think he's incapable of growing further? I actually thought I saw growth in his positioning today.
In terms of signing another CB, I do think we'll be looking to play a back three at times this season - I'm slightly surprised we didn't today. |
I agree. However, Leif is not a good technical defender. I'm not sure he ever had been. He's tremendous going forward and that's why he's a cult hero.
Agree on Wolf's positioning. We need to learn on the job this season. [Post edited 17 Aug 2024 23:05]
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| Woolfie on 23:08 - Aug 17 with 5525 views | BondiBlue |
So you love him and he was good but you're going to find a way to criticise? | |
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| Woolfie on 23:12 - Aug 17 with 5473 views | seblue78 |
| Woolfie on 22:56 - Aug 17 by TractorWood |
We play a high line. It's an inevitable risk.
I also doubt Woolfie at this level but thought he did very well generally today. Much better than expected. |
I agree wasn’t a criticism as such. What he lacks in pace he makes up for in positioning/awareness. But it will be a bigger factor this year. And was quite striking today in the second half. Which is why McKenna is clearly looking to strengthen there. In a 5 it’s less of an issue, obviously | | | |
| Woolfie on 05:40 - Aug 18 with 5088 views | Churchman |
| Woolfie on 23:02 - Aug 17 by pointofblue |
I love how Woolfenden is the one being mostly criticised when he had a great game whilst Davis, at fault for both goals, is being basically let off.
What I would say about his relative lack of pace is it means positioning is especially important. He has developed so much in the past few seasons, so do we think he's incapable of growing further? I actually thought I saw growth in his positioning today.
In terms of signing another CB, I do think we'll be looking to play a back three at times this season - I'm slightly surprised we didn't today. |
I agree regarding Davis. He got the runaround a bit second half, but he wasn’t alone. Let’s not forget he was marking Salah who is a bit decent!
I think there is some learning and adapting to be done. Woolfenden and the others stepped up to it last season and I think they’ll do so this. It’s one thing training harder but it’s another thing facing it for real.
Let’s see how they and the squad look in a months time. |  | | |
| Woolfie on 06:42 - Aug 18 with 4983 views | homer_123 |
Interesting.
You've not analysed the two halves to understand what happened.
In the first half, they never got in behind at all. Second half, Pool changed their approach we pressed higher leaving more space.
We were going to get caught in that instance and it happened. Of our defenders Davis was the one having most problems. Salah's runs and timing of them he struggled with.
Also....when Woolfie did get caught in was inevitably from a 3rd man run. I.e. not his player but a runner from deep not picked up by our midfield. By the time they arrived in Woolfies vicinity they are at full pace. No one is catching them then.
I think you'll find it's Edmundson that will go, not Woolfie. |  |
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| Woolfie on 07:18 - Aug 18 with 4819 views | heavyweight |
| Woolfie on 23:02 - Aug 17 by pointofblue |
I love how Woolfenden is the one being mostly criticised when he had a great game whilst Davis, at fault for both goals, is being basically let off.
What I would say about his relative lack of pace is it means positioning is especially important. He has developed so much in the past few seasons, so do we think he's incapable of growing further? I actually thought I saw growth in his positioning today.
In terms of signing another CB, I do think we'll be looking to play a back three at times this season - I'm slightly surprised we didn't today. |
While you could blame partly Davies for both goals, the fact that he was pretty much up against T A-A and Salah by himself for most of the game is a reasonable mitigating factor.
I think we'll see changes to the setup on the left-hand side coming shortly. | | | |
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| Woolfie on 07:33 - Aug 18 with 4749 views | seblue78 |
| Woolfie on 06:42 - Aug 18 by homer_123 |
Interesting.
You've not analysed the two halves to understand what happened.
In the first half, they never got in behind at all. Second half, Pool changed their approach we pressed higher leaving more space.
We were going to get caught in that instance and it happened. Of our defenders Davis was the one having most problems. Salah's runs and timing of them he struggled with.
Also....when Woolfie did get caught in was inevitably from a 3rd man run. I.e. not his player but a runner from deep not picked up by our midfield. By the time they arrived in Woolfies vicinity they are at full pace. No one is catching them then.
I think you'll find it's Edmundson that will go, not Woolfie. |
Fair points. Wasn’t suggesting he’ll go more that any RCB recruitment will be to challenge him as a starter in that spot. As will axel. | | | |
| Woolfie on 07:37 - Aug 18 with 4727 views | PioneerBlue |
| Woolfie on 05:40 - Aug 18 by Churchman |
I agree regarding Davis. He got the runaround a bit second half, but he wasn’t alone. Let’s not forget he was marking Salah who is a bit decent!
I think there is some learning and adapting to be done. Woolfenden and the others stepped up to it last season and I think they’ll do so this. It’s one thing training harder but it’s another thing facing it for real.
Let’s see how they and the squad look in a months time. |
I agree. With so many PL debuts it’s very difficult making a one off assessment of who sinks or swims. We will know much more in 3-4 games, that first game after the international break where things will start to become clearer both on individuals and team. We will probably know how challenging things will be by then, its challenging, very challenging, or overwhelmingly challenging! | |
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| Woolfie on 09:02 - Aug 18 with 4399 views | bsw72 |
| Woolfie on 05:40 - Aug 18 by Churchman |
I agree regarding Davis. He got the runaround a bit second half, but he wasn’t alone. Let’s not forget he was marking Salah who is a bit decent!
I think there is some learning and adapting to be done. Woolfenden and the others stepped up to it last season and I think they’ll do so this. It’s one thing training harder but it’s another thing facing it for real.
Let’s see how they and the squad look in a months time. |
Davis was left exposed more in the second half against one of the best attackers in the league. He did well in the first half and hardly gave Salah a chance. Defence did well yesterday as a unit, it was the midfield gaps that lead to the goals. |  | | |
| Woolfie on 09:07 - Aug 18 with 4323 views | DJR |
Our issues weren't defensive, it was that Liverpool took total control in midfield in the second half and moved the ball with pace and accuracy.
The fact is though that we were up against world class players, and given this, and the fact that we haven't bedded people like Phillips in yet, I thought we performed admirably yesterday.
The only observation I would have is that Taylor does not seem to me to be what we need at this level because he doesn't give us the calm and control that, say, Luongo and Harness offer us. I might add that I thought Luongo in the first half was immense both offensively and defensively. [Post edited 18 Aug 2024 9:17]
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| Woolfie on 09:14 - Aug 18 with 4236 views | Hugoagogo_Reborn |
| Woolfie on 23:12 - Aug 17 by seblue78 |
I agree wasn’t a criticism as such. What he lacks in pace he makes up for in positioning/awareness. But it will be a bigger factor this year. And was quite striking today in the second half. Which is why McKenna is clearly looking to strengthen there. In a 5 it’s less of an issue, obviously |
I agree with your point about positional awareness. It can make up for so much, at any level. As a 25 year old, Woolfenden hasn't reached his peak. He can only continue to improve playing at the highest level being coached by one of the best coaches in the business. I am convinced he'll find his feet, and I actually thought he had a good game yesterday. I think his stats were actually slightly better than Greaves. Someone posted them in another thread.
I think Greaves is certainly more cultured. Sometimes that looks easier on the eye than Luke's style of play, but both played very well, I thought. |  | | |
| Woolfie on 09:35 - Aug 18 with 4112 views | Churchman |
| Woolfie on 09:07 - Aug 18 by DJR |
Our issues weren't defensive, it was that Liverpool took total control in midfield in the second half and moved the ball with pace and accuracy.
The fact is though that we were up against world class players, and given this, and the fact that we haven't bedded people like Phillips in yet, I thought we performed admirably yesterday.
The only observation I would have is that Taylor does not seem to me to be what we need at this level because he doesn't give us the calm and control that, say, Luongo and Harness offer us. I might add that I thought Luongo in the first half was immense both offensively and defensively. [Post edited 18 Aug 2024 9:17]
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Agreed - Luongo was my standout first half. Didn’t give the ball away, looked every bit a PL player. I thought Tuanzebe looked the part too. Good interview with him on Radio S afterwards as well.
An interesting one was Hutchinson. His ‘radar’ was slightly off, but it’s obvious he’s going to hurt teams this season. Pace and control. He’ll only get better as his fitness improves, the team settles down and he acclimatises.
Walton, the CHs and Delap all did well and the little bit we saw of Szmodics impressed me too. He’s a feisty little player. | | | |
| Woolfie on 09:42 - Aug 18 with 4053 views | pointofblue |
| Woolfie on 09:02 - Aug 18 by bsw72 |
Davis was left exposed more in the second half against one of the best attackers in the league. He did well in the first half and hardly gave Salah a chance. Defence did well yesterday as a unit, it was the midfield gaps that lead to the goals. |
And, as homer pointed out, Woolfenden and Greaves - though he's not getting negatives - were left exposed by third runners who easily bypassed midfield. And they're hardly awful players themselves.
I'm not suggesting Davis should be criticised. I'm saying quite a few players put in a worse performance than Woolfenden yesterday so I'm finding it odd a few, not just the OP, seem to be singling him out. In truth, none of them really deserve it. We do need to look at what happened around the 55th minute, aside from Burns' injury, and what we can do to mitigate it. Especially versus teams who we want to pick up points against. | |
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| Woolfie on 10:03 - Aug 18 with 3927 views | DJR |
| Woolfie on 09:42 - Aug 18 by pointofblue |
And, as homer pointed out, Woolfenden and Greaves - though he's not getting negatives - were left exposed by third runners who easily bypassed midfield. And they're hardly awful players themselves.
I'm not suggesting Davis should be criticised. I'm saying quite a few players put in a worse performance than Woolfenden yesterday so I'm finding it odd a few, not just the OP, seem to be singling him out. In truth, none of them really deserve it. We do need to look at what happened around the 55th minute, aside from Burns' injury, and what we can do to mitigate it. Especially versus teams who we want to pick up points against. |
Woolfie has never been given the credit he deserved from many on TWTD: his match rating scores generally reflect this.
It was less obvious when Jackson was the scapegoat, but if the comments about Woolfie yesterday are anything to go, maybe he will become the new Jackson, quite unfairly for both in my opinion. [Post edited 18 Aug 2024 10:05]
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| Woolfie on 10:13 - Aug 18 with 3834 views | Steve_M |
| Woolfie on 09:42 - Aug 18 by pointofblue |
And, as homer pointed out, Woolfenden and Greaves - though he's not getting negatives - were left exposed by third runners who easily bypassed midfield. And they're hardly awful players themselves.
I'm not suggesting Davis should be criticised. I'm saying quite a few players put in a worse performance than Woolfenden yesterday so I'm finding it odd a few, not just the OP, seem to be singling him out. In truth, none of them really deserve it. We do need to look at what happened around the 55th minute, aside from Burns' injury, and what we can do to mitigate it. Especially versus teams who we want to pick up points against. |
Massimo had a great first half but had very little left for the second it seemed, part of the reason we struggled in the second. [Post edited 18 Aug 2024 16:10]
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| Woolfie on 10:27 - Aug 18 with 3765 views | cressi |
We was playing against top players in Salah and will against all the top 8 sides. We have to won our league of around 10 sides as someone mentioned its not Leifs strong point either. I could see why Axel played before Johnson who I thought was poor when he came on.Five at the back May well suit Harry Clarke when fit .. | | | |
| Woolfie on 10:35 - Aug 18 with 3712 views | seblue78 |
| Woolfie on 09:42 - Aug 18 by pointofblue |
And, as homer pointed out, Woolfenden and Greaves - though he's not getting negatives - were left exposed by third runners who easily bypassed midfield. And they're hardly awful players themselves.
I'm not suggesting Davis should be criticised. I'm saying quite a few players put in a worse performance than Woolfenden yesterday so I'm finding it odd a few, not just the OP, seem to be singling him out. In truth, none of them really deserve it. We do need to look at what happened around the 55th minute, aside from Burns' injury, and what we can do to mitigate it. Especially versus teams who we want to pick up points against. |
The OP was simply highlighting his lack of pace on the turn yesterday in the second half. Which was very noticeable. It wasn't meant as a general criticism;that aside he was pretty good. But that lack of pace will be more of an issue this season for obvious reasons. Esp in a 4. | | | |
| Woolfie on 10:38 - Aug 18 with 3673 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Woolfie on 10:35 - Aug 18 by seblue78 |
The OP was simply highlighting his lack of pace on the turn yesterday in the second half. Which was very noticeable. It wasn't meant as a general criticism;that aside he was pretty good. But that lack of pace will be more of an issue this season for obvious reasons. Esp in a 4. |
We basically need a right footed greaves now. |  |
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| Woolfie on 10:40 - Aug 18 with 3666 views | OldFart71 |
Leif's problem has always been defending. Even in Division One and Championship. Either getting run off or getting caught upfield out of position. That's why he's so good going forward. Two suggestions. You either move him forward as England did with Alexander Arnold or you have someone helping him out more defensively. Yesterday nobody was covering behind. I have long believed, sadly really, that Woolfenden is not Premier League class. He got muscled out and positional wise wasn't that great before this step up. Midfield Morsy and Loungo did o.k. first half, but once Liverpool switched they were a bit overrun. Neither are spring chickens. I'm sure McKenna will sort it out. Watching MOTD many teams rely on a fast switch from defence to attack, we must be able to do the same. | | | |
| Woolfie on 10:45 - Aug 18 with 3612 views | seblue78 |
| Woolfie on 10:38 - Aug 18 by FrimleyBlue |
We basically need a right footed greaves now. |
Hence the links with the Burnley and Sheff U lads I suspect | | | |
| Woolfie on 10:47 - Aug 18 with 3596 views | seblue78 |
| Woolfie on 10:45 - Aug 18 by seblue78 |
Hence the links with the Burnley and Sheff U lads I suspect |
Will be horses for courses | | | |
| Woolfie on 11:37 - Aug 18 with 3496 views | BloomBlue |
I don't understand this lack of pace arguement against Woolf, I think it's because his running style is relaxing it makes him look slow, but he was never caught out for pace yesterday.
As I said on another thread, both the goals came from our left, if they had come from our right fans would be blaming his slowness for with goals.
Most fans around me yesterday agreed Greaves was brilliant but he has to take some of the blame for both goals especially the 2nd one as he was too slow getting across to Salah.
But it's the same old thing, Woolfie gets blamed for things other players don't.
For example, Hutchinson first half does brilliantly and we're breaking forward, only had to play a 4 foot pass to Chaplin in a great position and the ball would be on Chappers left but Hutch failed that pass. For a £20m player a 4 foot pass should be bread and butter, but no criticism.
Believe me if Woolfie had got that far forward and made that pass the anti Woolfie brigade would use that as an example for him not being Prem class |  | | |
| Woolfie on 11:58 - Aug 18 with 3433 views | seblue78 |
| Woolfie on 11:37 - Aug 18 by BloomBlue |
I don't understand this lack of pace arguement against Woolf, I think it's because his running style is relaxing it makes him look slow, but he was never caught out for pace yesterday.
As I said on another thread, both the goals came from our left, if they had come from our right fans would be blaming his slowness for with goals.
Most fans around me yesterday agreed Greaves was brilliant but he has to take some of the blame for both goals especially the 2nd one as he was too slow getting across to Salah.
But it's the same old thing, Woolfie gets blamed for things other players don't.
For example, Hutchinson first half does brilliantly and we're breaking forward, only had to play a 4 foot pass to Chaplin in a great position and the ball would be on Chappers left but Hutch failed that pass. For a £20m player a 4 foot pass should be bread and butter, but no criticism.
Believe me if Woolfie had got that far forward and made that pass the anti Woolfie brigade would use that as an example for him not being Prem class |
You’re conflating two different things. Never said he was at fault for the goals. Or didn’t play well. He did. He just lacks a bit of pace. You don’t think he does. Fair enough. I do. And it seemed quite stark on a couple of occasions yesterday against some v quick forwards. I guess we’ll see in the next couple of weeks. | | | |
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