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It seems that outside of signing two players from Serie A on loan (one of which is English) we are seriously at a disadvantage when it comes to tapping on overseas talent. While the majority of clubs in the Prem and even some in the Champ stack their ranks with players signed from Europe, South and Central America and even Japan and Korea, we are mainly pursuing players from the home nations. This results in us unable to sign experienced players with top flight experience for the sheer premium placed on homegrown, British players vs their overseas counterparts + the fact that we aren't a "big" club.
MA and perhaps, McK's approach this season is hence a compromise - signing homegrown youth players with talent and potential like Delap, Philogene, Hutchinson, J Clarke etc. but as it can be seen they are still raw and at times lack the experience and maturity to be decent Prem players. Maybe they will in a couple of years' time and we can profit from them but what we need is experience NOW to plug and play, to grind out results and ensure survival.
Look at Villa signing Malen vs our signing of Philogene. Malen is cheaper, with more top flight and international experience and probably more suited to bang in the goals this season. Why isn't the recruitment squad looking at players like that?
Our experienced players are all Champ level at best and the new signings are mainly youth. Its like fielding a U21 team at times which leaves us outclassed and without the ability to change a game when needed.
Top priority (regardless of whether we survive or not) is to improve and broaden our scouting network. If McK can only work with "players who understand English or who have worked with an English-speaking coach" then he has to learn how to improve his cultural management skills. I'd rather have a player who is clueless about life in Britain and speaks poor English but knows where the net is or able to shut out Prem attackers than signing more homegrown players who are a work in progress for a significant premium. Depending on pure homegrown talent in 2025 is unrealistic and unfeasible.
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Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 16:10 - Jan 17 with 5081 views
On what planet would we have the slightest chance of signing Malen? I don't get why people are so hung up on the fact that Villa got him for the same price as Philogene.
He's a seasoned international with 41 caps and 9 goals for the Netherlands, and has scored 30 in 94 playing for Champions League regulars Borussia Dortmund. Even if the fees are similar, you can bet your bottom dollar that he's on a significantly higher salary than Philogene.
Malen was only that amount due to the fact that he was in his last year of his contract. His wages will be far higher than what we can afford.
Our scouting system was totally destroyed under ME and it takes a long time to get it up to speed - which it will.
But it’s only recently that we managed to claim Suffolk back from the budgies so implementing a PL standard system for the overseas market will take time.
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Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 16:12 - Jan 17 with 5058 views
Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 16:10 - Jan 17 by Zx1988
On what planet would we have the slightest chance of signing Malen? I don't get why people are so hung up on the fact that Villa got him for the same price as Philogene.
He's a seasoned international with 41 caps and 9 goals for the Netherlands, and has scored 30 in 94 playing for Champions League regulars Borussia Dortmund. Even if the fees are similar, you can bet your bottom dollar that he's on a significantly higher salary than Philogene.
That was not a great example but the general point is very valid. It’s 2025, do we have a European scouting network?
Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 16:12 - Jan 17 by Illinoisblue
That was not a great example but the general point is very valid. It’s 2025, do we have a European scouting network?
In-house I think the answer is no. We've recently increased our 'main scout's from 2 to 3. Previously I think one was broadly responsible for the North of the UK and one for the south. Whether the additional full time individual will have a broader remit isn't clear.
Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 16:12 - Jan 17 by Illinoisblue
That was not a great example but the general point is very valid. It’s 2025, do we have a European scouting network?
I still think the bigger point for us is the scale of change needed to go from mid-table in League 1 to bottom third Premier League in essentially five transfer windows is massive. We've bridged some of that gap but we've not upgraded in enough positions.
Does having the ability to bring players in from Europe help that? Maybe, but the risk is higher and increases the likelihood of losing the cohesion we have.
There is merit in what you say but lets not pretend signings from abroad don't come with risk.
"I'd rather have a player who is clueless about life in Britain and speaks poor English" is a pretty naive statement. McKenna is trying to convey complexed ideas and has built a squad that is achieving beyond the sum of its parts because of the cohesion and team spirit we have.
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Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 16:50 - Jan 17 with 4758 views
Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 16:22 - Jan 17 by tractorboy1978
There is merit in what you say but lets not pretend signings from abroad don't come with risk.
"I'd rather have a player who is clueless about life in Britain and speaks poor English" is a pretty naive statement. McKenna is trying to convey complexed ideas and has built a squad that is achieving beyond the sum of its parts because of the cohesion and team spirit we have.
Let's use an example from last night then. Do you think Mitoma, when signed fresh from Kawasaki Frontale having played in Japan all his life is struggling to figure out how his team operates and what his manager wants? What about Moder? Enciso? Beleba? Minteh? Ayari? Are any of them imbued with British culture or speak fluent English?
I bet my bottom dollar none are. In fact, none of them have ever lived in the UK prior to signing for Brighton.
None of them are doing too badly either, are they?
Naive?
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Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 17:15 - Jan 17 with 4640 views
The priority is not to build a scouting network, like most progressive clubs Ipswich and KM are working on creating a data-led recruitment model, supplemented with a few scouts who are able to then validate the targets identified. The key to doing this is having the data science and analytical capability to manage the data and build models, we've started from ground zero so this will take time which is why until this is developed we've depended on agent led recruitment and domestic transfers.
We've previously been accessing data sets from Jamestown Analytics (Tony Bloom's separate business which uses models developed for the gaming industry) to identify some of our recruitment targets, using our positive relationships with Brighton (via Paul Braber). Still, since promotion to the Premier League, they've obviously not allowed us to have the same access.
You may have read recently that Brighton have let go of a number of their scouts, including international ones, as they also want to utilise the data even more than they have. We are far behind on the data, so are playing catch-up, until we do and then establish intnl scouts to use the data, I suspect we will be recruiting closer to home.
Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 16:50 - Jan 17 by ITFCSG
Let's use an example from last night then. Do you think Mitoma, when signed fresh from Kawasaki Frontale having played in Japan all his life is struggling to figure out how his team operates and what his manager wants? What about Moder? Enciso? Beleba? Minteh? Ayari? Are any of them imbued with British culture or speak fluent English?
I bet my bottom dollar none are. In fact, none of them have ever lived in the UK prior to signing for Brighton.
None of them are doing too badly either, are they?
Naive?
......and with a German manager.
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Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 17:23 - Jan 17 with 4545 views
Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 16:50 - Jan 17 by ITFCSG
Let's use an example from last night then. Do you think Mitoma, when signed fresh from Kawasaki Frontale having played in Japan all his life is struggling to figure out how his team operates and what his manager wants? What about Moder? Enciso? Beleba? Minteh? Ayari? Are any of them imbued with British culture or speak fluent English?
I bet my bottom dollar none are. In fact, none of them have ever lived in the UK prior to signing for Brighton.
None of them are doing too badly either, are they?
Naive?
But before signing for Brighton they would’ve been assessed in terms of personality and desire to move abroad. They wouldn’t have been signed simply due to their performances at their previous clubs.
All this forms part of a good scouting system, which of course, takes a while to put in place.
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Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 17:26 - Jan 17 with 4527 views
Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 16:50 - Jan 17 by ITFCSG
Let's use an example from last night then. Do you think Mitoma, when signed fresh from Kawasaki Frontale having played in Japan all his life is struggling to figure out how his team operates and what his manager wants? What about Moder? Enciso? Beleba? Minteh? Ayari? Are any of them imbued with British culture or speak fluent English?
I bet my bottom dollar none are. In fact, none of them have ever lived in the UK prior to signing for Brighton.
None of them are doing too badly either, are they?
Naive?
They don't just sign them all then chuck them straight in though. They're very good at having a system in place to develop those players before they're ready, often through loaning them out then integrating them into their team.
They also sign the likes of Welbeck, Milner, Lallana etc. and still have the likes of Dunk, March, Webster who have been in the English leagues for ages.
We're simply not at a point where we can follow in their footsteps in that way. I agree we could do with casting our net a bit further but it's not as easy as just finding a good player then chucking them straight in and expecting them to perform.
Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand.
Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 17:15 - Jan 17 by le2blue
The priority is not to build a scouting network, like most progressive clubs Ipswich and KM are working on creating a data-led recruitment model, supplemented with a few scouts who are able to then validate the targets identified. The key to doing this is having the data science and analytical capability to manage the data and build models, we've started from ground zero so this will take time which is why until this is developed we've depended on agent led recruitment and domestic transfers.
We've previously been accessing data sets from Jamestown Analytics (Tony Bloom's separate business which uses models developed for the gaming industry) to identify some of our recruitment targets, using our positive relationships with Brighton (via Paul Braber). Still, since promotion to the Premier League, they've obviously not allowed us to have the same access.
You may have read recently that Brighton have let go of a number of their scouts, including international ones, as they also want to utilise the data even more than they have. We are far behind on the data, so are playing catch-up, until we do and then establish intnl scouts to use the data, I suspect we will be recruiting closer to home.
One of the scouts they released is the latest to join our small in-person team:
Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 17:26 - Jan 17 by LankHenners
They don't just sign them all then chuck them straight in though. They're very good at having a system in place to develop those players before they're ready, often through loaning them out then integrating them into their team.
They also sign the likes of Welbeck, Milner, Lallana etc. and still have the likes of Dunk, March, Webster who have been in the English leagues for ages.
We're simply not at a point where we can follow in their footsteps in that way. I agree we could do with casting our net a bit further but it's not as easy as just finding a good player then chucking them straight in and expecting them to perform.
Good point and this is something that is important we emulate over the coming seasons.
My gripe is that our current approach of signing only "players who understand English or who have worked with an English-speaking coach" is tunnel vision and has probably closed many doors on better players abroad, leading us to sign players who are expensive and aren't Prem-ready now.
Also, in today's data driven world, I still believe that scouts and a personal connection are still necessary. Look at how data led us to sign Muric. If anyone were to watch him play at Burnley last season I'd be gobsmacked to see how his performances validated the data shown on the model
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Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 17:43 - Jan 17 with 4344 views
Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 17:35 - Jan 17 by ITFCSG
Good point and this is something that is important we emulate over the coming seasons.
My gripe is that our current approach of signing only "players who understand English or who have worked with an English-speaking coach" is tunnel vision and has probably closed many doors on better players abroad, leading us to sign players who are expensive and aren't Prem-ready now.
Also, in today's data driven world, I still believe that scouts and a personal connection are still necessary. Look at how data led us to sign Muric. If anyone were to watch him play at Burnley last season I'd be gobsmacked to see how his performances validated the data shown on the model
The full dossier that included the 'English speaking' requirement hasn't (to my knowledge) ever been fully released so it's not quite clear whether The Sun left the full context of that statement in to the story that they released and that was then recirculated. E.g Was it an absolute or a preference?
When asked about foreign recruitment at a Fans Forum McKenna mentioned the lack of infrastructure at the club that was necessary to successfully integrate overseas players into the club. In the autumn we appointed a First Team logistics manager and one of his responsibilities is supporting players admin as they join the club - so it is possible that we are in the process of getting this infrastructure in place now.
Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 19:37 - Jan 17 by algy
Who they appointed when they couldn't get the Northern Irish manager they wanted.
Who possibly didn't go there as the team stuffed full of overseas players with a variety of languages and not speaking much English making it harder for him to impact the team.
The reality is I am sure KMc wishes he had more options in the wider market but at the current step on the clubs journey we are not ready to support that in a way that can maintain team unity.
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Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 21:49 - Jan 17 with 3810 views
Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 21:41 - Jan 17 by berkstractorboy
Who possibly didn't go there as the team stuffed full of overseas players with a variety of languages and not speaking much English making it harder for him to impact the team.
The reality is I am sure KMc wishes he had more options in the wider market but at the current step on the clubs journey we are not ready to support that in a way that can maintain team unity.
Sounds like if he wants to progress his career at PL level KM needs to learn some new languages.
Veni Vidi Participatur. Now we can get back to competing.
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Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 22:20 - Jan 17 with 3682 views
Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 21:49 - Jan 17 by algy
Sounds like if he wants to progress his career at PL level KM needs to learn some new languages.
If Hurzeler can manage a squad that almost resembles a United Nations GA I don't see why McK can't.
Our current limitations has resulted in
1. Not being able to get experienced players with top-flight nous or experience. We don't look abroad, and homegrown players that fit the bill are way out of our league.
and therefore
2. Relying on developing future homegrown talent which is good for long-term profit but not getting us out of a relegation scrap. For all the talent they have, Hutch, J Clarke, Philogene, Delap at al are too young, too raw for the Prem. We aren't playing in an U21 league!
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Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 22:24 - Jan 17 with 3649 views
Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 22:20 - Jan 17 by ITFCSG
If Hurzeler can manage a squad that almost resembles a United Nations GA I don't see why McK can't.
Our current limitations has resulted in
1. Not being able to get experienced players with top-flight nous or experience. We don't look abroad, and homegrown players that fit the bill are way out of our league.
and therefore
2. Relying on developing future homegrown talent which is good for long-term profit but not getting us out of a relegation scrap. For all the talent they have, Hutch, J Clarke, Philogene, Delap at al are too young, too raw for the Prem. We aren't playing in an U21 league!
Totally agree with you.
Veni Vidi Participatur. Now we can get back to competing.
0
Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 22:25 - Jan 17 with 3641 views
I think Town are right not to jump into overseas recruitment if it's not an area where they have the expertise to do it properly and could come a cropper, as they club did in the summer of 2001 when they recruited the likes of Sereni and Finidi.
But going forward they obviously need to build an overseas scouting network. From what I gather, Cajuste was offered to us by his agent, who spoke to a number of clubs, he almost joined Brentford before us, of course, so he wasn't scouted per se, although they may well have had some prior knowledge of him.
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Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 09:34 - Jan 18 with 2947 views
Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 22:20 - Jan 17 by ITFCSG
If Hurzeler can manage a squad that almost resembles a United Nations GA I don't see why McK can't.
Our current limitations has resulted in
1. Not being able to get experienced players with top-flight nous or experience. We don't look abroad, and homegrown players that fit the bill are way out of our league.
and therefore
2. Relying on developing future homegrown talent which is good for long-term profit but not getting us out of a relegation scrap. For all the talent they have, Hutch, J Clarke, Philogene, Delap at al are too young, too raw for the Prem. We aren't playing in an U21 league!
Bar Delap as an extraordinary talent I'd say we've overpaid for strong but ultimately championship quality. Perhaps an unpopular opinion. If we go down a Delap sale needs to be enormous to mitigate onerous purchases of Clarke, Omari, Muric and Philogene (hopefully not).
If we stay up we can keep, build, buy better, train and improve. Massive few months.
Lack of overseas recruitment hurting us? on 09:25 - Jan 18 by PhilTWTD
I think Town are right not to jump into overseas recruitment if it's not an area where they have the expertise to do it properly and could come a cropper, as they club did in the summer of 2001 when they recruited the likes of Sereni and Finidi.
But going forward they obviously need to build an overseas scouting network. From what I gather, Cajuste was offered to us by his agent, who spoke to a number of clubs, he almost joined Brentford before us, of course, so he wasn't scouted per se, although they may well have had some prior knowledge of him.
100%. And the club have said that it’s an area they’re looking to develop. Homegrown served us well so far, so I wouldn’t want to be too critical of that approach. We’re probably seeing some limitations of that approach now aren’t we, but we’re also ahead of where we expected to be. Inevitability it will take a bit of time to overhaul our recruitment approach. Hopefully we can stay in this league while we develop off the field, but I’m sure we’ll still look to devp recruitment even if we’re relegated. Gamechanger are a million miles away from Evan’s lack of development.
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